Originally posted by gieger808
GW2 will only have the pvp crowd in less than six months. It doesn't have the pve needed to hold the majority of serious pve'ers.
Great game, having a blast, but it will fall to being just a casual 2nd game to play while on update day for a mmorpg with a more well developed endgame.

could you define that? what does someone have to do to be consider a "serious" pve'er

StarWars ToR would have done well as a buy to play game . like many mmos that are released under a subscription model the developers delude themselves into thinking they are actually worth it and the games end up failing to get the kind of money they need to survive and end up going to a freemium model .

 You have to also realise though as well an MMO doesn't have to be as big as WoW to be a success .Look at EVE and Rit . Both happly surviving with much less subs . But neither of these games cost as much as ToR did to develop .

I think GW2 will have some degree of drop off in 6 months or so but I m certain there will be yearly expansion packs to bring back interest in the game .

I plan to play it along side lotro ( which is totally free to me including expansions as I brought a life time sub for half price 4 years ago ) .

GW2 is a nice game and it has a lot more scope than ToR ever had . Its no way as good as WoW Vanilla and TBC but I enjoy it more than what WoW is at the moment .

It wouldn't be worth a monthly sub to me though . But no game really is anymore .

Originally posted by gieger808
a more well developed endgame.

I think that's the problem that GW2 is at least trying to solve.  Stop letting Everquest's over-a-decade old raid mechanics and WoW's stupid emblem grind dictate your expectations for what an "endgame" is supposed to be.

All the other MMOs that are trying to provide your idea of an "endgame" are failing, badly.  I don't think ArenaNet is interested in catering to an ever-shrinking play style.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by gieger808
GW2 will only have the pvp crowd in less than six months. It doesn't have the pve needed to hold the majority of serious pve'ers.
Great game, having a blast, but it will fall to being just a casual 2nd game to play while on update day for a mmorpg with a more well developed endgame.

could you define that? what does someone have to do to be consider a "serious" pve'er

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume they mean" raiders".  DEs give me all the enjoyment of a raid without the hassle of putting up with stupid dragon kill point loot rules and mandatory ventrillo channels.

Wile SWTOR suffered from a lack of content at level cap, it wasn't it's only major problem. It also suffered from many more things. Frankly, it was a p!$$ poor MMO founded an expensive gimmick that failed to pay off.  Content is not  made obsolete by out leveling it. GW2, doesn't feel like there will be a huge transition to a different kind of game once capped at endgame. All content will remain relevant regardless of your level. There is one more thing with GW2. It's also designed so you can put it down and pick it up at any time.

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

The game has RMAH system that allows you to buy everything inside the game with real money except some cosmetical rewards which you can buy boosts for.

I don't see the longevity in GW2 except rolling multiple toons and dinging them through the faceroll easy grind to 80.

If you however like sPvP and the current WvWvW system you might stick around.

I'm certainly don't. :)

Can't tell if sarcasm or stupidity, apologies for that. The internet doesn't always translate sarcasm well.

Assuming sarcasm but being alert for lurkers trying to understand the game... there's no RMAH of course. The closest to real money interactions would be buying gems and changing them to in game gold, but gold is only one type of currency and not exactly the most desirable in terms of gear, etc.

Really, dude, use sarcasm tags. It helps.

Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Didn't people love SWTOR, D3, TSW etc 10 days after their release? Look where they are now... Give it ~2 months and we can know for sure the fate of GW2.

Sure.  That's because until you hit a wall where there is no longer anything worth doing SWTOR and TSW are great, even amazing, fun, and enjoyable games.  The second you run out of story content both of them crap out.  TSW even faster than SWTOR because TSW doesn't even have alt-replay value.

Originally posted by stratasaurus
My belief is that GW2 will pretty much go the same way SWTOR did in terms of active players.  The game is in its honeymoon stage right now but my guess is most the people that think it is awesome right now will hit 80 in 2 to 3 months and then go away.  There is no real endgame and gear endgame is suppose to be pretty equal.  Also there is not really very much replay value on the game due the class design.  Since most classes have a support weapon, a melee weapon, a ranged weapon, what you get is every class has a huge range on how you can play it but all the classes are really very similar.  Sure there are some differences but not enough to keep people entertained with playing a new class 2 or 3 months in.  Once people start hitting 80 retention on active players is not going to be very high for this one, and I bet lots of people won't even make it 80 before leaving.

The joy here is that even if GW2 loses players due to them having "beat the game" as it were, it doesn't affect ArenaNet's bottom line because they aren't dependent on subscriptions.  Compare that to EAware, TOR is now in serious trouble due to lack of cashflow, it's putting all potential future content in question.

All ArenaNet has to do is convince players to buy the expansion pack.  Not nearly as difficult as convincing people to stay subscribed month after month after month perpetually running out of new content (which is being generous since most months there would be no new content anyway despite the sub).

First,

GW2 is far from SW:TOR

GW2 .. buy it then .. it's some kind of F2P .. no subscription, can't compare with a subscription base game. You need to pay to unlock a lot of stuff (bank slot, Inventory slot)

The 2 games can't be compared, GW2 can't go the same road as SW:TOR, no sub fee, how will they calculate the drop ? By server pop ? and then, Oh, we're going F2P ? they already 50% F2P, no sub fee, buy it and play

On another note, I just left GW2 to go back to SW:TOR. The control feel to clunky in GW2, and no, it's not my PC I've got over 70FPS with max setting.

And, I never like the GW game system, it doesn't give much place for itemization, might be a good thing for pvp but, I'm not a pvper

Originally posted by lifeordinary
No...... after a month, people will quit paying sub and in second month servers will begin to be merged. Third month Anet will announce that GW2 is going F2P.

Obvious trolling lolooololol :)

Originally posted by Paddyspub

 

Been playing GW2 since EA on the 25th and imo it is much, much, much, much more polished game with a beautiful world, interesting races, interactive pvp,  the game engine isnt absolute trash,  launches with basic features and then some,  AH isnt horrid  (ok, so it is down alot, though, which is annoying).  GW2 has all this and more and its F2P.   So the game has started out strong but so did SWTOR, but then again, game had so much hype that, I think, alot of people were blinded and didnt see how flawed the game was.  I personally, dont think GW2 will poop out like SWTOR did.    GW2 is #1 or #2 on the xfire chart, so that is a good sign.   Hopefully we finally have a good alternative to go to for something different instead of Wow, and wont be another AoC, Aion, Warhammer, Rift, TSW, SWTOR. 

Game will sink just like SWToR.... my prediction.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by gieger808
GW2 will only have the pvp crowd in less than six months. It doesn't have the pve needed to hold the majority of serious pve'ers.
Great game, having a blast, but it will fall to being just a casual 2nd game to play while on update day for a mmorpg with a more well developed endgame.

could you define that? what does someone have to do to be consider a "serious" pve'er

I believe what he means is there is no Gear progression, there is not a lot of dungeons and no raid content, and no DE's are not very much fun.  The main quest story line is pretty damn limited and the heart system of quests is boring.  People were like the quest system in GW2 is awesome you don't have the same boring quest hubs.  Uhm you go to a heart and then have to kill x things or gather x things with no story line to back it up, questing in GW2 is very weak.

Originally posted by thedrakon

First,

GW2 is far from SW:TOR

GW2 .. buy it then .. it's some kind of F2P .. no subscription, can't compare with a subscription base game. You need to pay to unlock a lot of stuff (bank slot, Inventory slot)

GW2 crafting material doesn't take up bank space, that alone makes the bank almost pointless so you probably will never need to pay for more space in most cases.  GW2 gives you 5 char slots for 5 race stories, same as SWTOR gives you 8 char slots for 8  class stories.  And once SWTOR goes F2P you'll be paying just to unlock more than 1 or 2 char slots even if you already paid full-price for the game unless you keep doling out sub fees.

I know I'd rather pay 10 bucks off the bat if I absolutely desperately feel like playing a 6th character than paying $15 a month and having nothing to show for it.  That's just me. 

(Man I used to love SWTOR, it feels weird defending GW2 as the superior product, but it is, not to mention the superior service model)

Originally posted by Paddyspub

 

Been playing GW2 since EA on the 25th and imo it is much, much, much, much more polished game with a beautiful world, interesting races, interactive pvp,  the game engine isnt absolute trash,  launches with basic features and then some,  AH isnt horrid  (ok, so it is down alot, though, which is annoying).  GW2 has all this and more and its F2P.   So the game has started out strong but so did SWTOR, but then again, game had so much hype that, I think, alot of people were blinded and didnt see how flawed the game was.  I personally, dont think GW2 will poop out like SWTOR did.    GW2 is #1 or #2 on the xfire chart, so that is a good sign.   Hopefully we finally have a good alternative to go to for something different instead of Wow, and wont be another AoC, Aion, Warhammer, Rift, TSW, SWTOR. 

SWTOR failed (yes game voted MMO of the year gone FTP in less than a year is FAILED in my book) due to the devolpment team spending far too much effort on one facet of game play. This left the rest of the game outside the story questing feeling massively anemic and offered little that wasn't done better in older, longer established games. SWTOR also offerd about as much gaming freedom as a stright jacket.

GW2 on the other hand seems to be a quite well rounded game. The game world is huge and lovingly crafted. The questing, combat, even tradeskill gathering is quick, fluid and very low impact. A player can log in and go do pretty much whatever they want without invisible walls forcing them to go only where the game wants them to go. The professions all offer a massive amount of freedom as well as no one is pidgeon-holed into one certain role. And players are also not weighed down by the repettive end game gear grind we've seen in almost every other MMO for the past seven years.

Now that all sounds like a ringing endorsement for the longetivity of GW2 in a way SWTOR could never hope to master. However I think it is this amount of casual friendly freedom that will come back to bite quite a few GW2 players on the ass in the near future. The reson I say this is because after all the years of Wow and Wow clones, many players are conditioned to expect a certain type of game structure and a certain type of game progression. Let's face it, its the (IMHO boring as fuck) repetitive end game grindfest that has not only kept Wow alive, but bloated for the past several years.

GW2 offering a different game experience is a great thing but I feel in the end will not be enough to keep the average type of MMO gamer entertained in the long run. And once the honeymoon euphoira has worn off most of these players will drag themselves back to their main addiction, just like they do after every new game launch.

Do I think this will spell disaster for GW2 when this happens? Nope. Since there is no sub fee, and since GW2 is a fun and easy to jump into (and out of) game I'm sure many of these players will be coming to visit the land of Tyria for short palate cleansing vactions for some time to come.

So to sum up. SWTOR crashed due to their main claim to fame, the voice acted story content ending and leaving the player with just a hollow, half-assed version of every themepark experience they've been seeing for several years.

GW2 will avoid this as they offer a decently different approach. Sadly though I feel this is the very reason it won't stick long as a main game for the average MMOer as it hilariously doesn't offer enough of the same old same old, familiar grind that many mainstream gamers have become accoustomed to.

And on that note I'm outta here (GW2 Forums) for a couple of months. Since all we are going to see for awhile are a huge number of "See!? GW2 IS the best thing since sliced bread!" or "See!? GW2 IS the worst thing since Hitler." hysteria threads, trying to have a mature conversation here until the fur stops flying will be about as pointless as pissing into a volcano.

Have fun you kooky kids.

Different games, different scenarios.

And Anet didn't put five hundred Bajillion dollars into developement and advertising.

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Originally posted by lucasdeis
[mod edit]

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Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Paddyspub

 

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...I think it is this amount of casual friendly freedom that will come back to bite quite a few GW2 players on the ass in the near future.

--snip--

 

It could possibly be true, what you say here.

But I feel, the answer to that is "So what?" I played it. I enjoyed it. I can put it down and come back at any time if I want to. And if I never do, I won't feel cheated. I'll certainly have gotten my money out of it.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Paddyspub

 

--snip--

--snip--

...I think it is this amount of casual friendly freedom that will come back to bite quite a few GW2 players on the ass in the near future.

--snip--

 

It could possibly be true, what you say here.

But I feel, the answer to that is "So what?" I played it. I enjoyed it. I can put it down and come back at any time if I want to. And if I never do, I won't feel cheated. I'll certainly have gotten my money out of it.

And I feel that is an entirely sane, rational and healthy outlook. However the reason I feel this point is important is due to the insane amout of people the past year hyping GW2 as the great empancipator that would free us all from the bondage of boredom and change the face off MMOs forever. Which while GW2 is a quite entertaining game, its simply is not the game to end all games.

And the reason I feel THAT point is important is I feel quite a few gamers bought into GW2 thinking it really would be the king of kings and are going to be massively let down, which will cause a negetive backlash against the game which will be incredidibly unfair, as the makers of the game never made any of these promises.

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by Paddyspub

 

Been playing GW2 since EA on the 25th and imo it is much, much, much, much more polished game with a beautiful world, interesting races, interactive pvp,  the game engine isnt absolute trash,  launches with basic features and then some,  AH isnt horrid  (ok, so it is down alot, though, which is annoying).  GW2 has all this and more and its F2P.   So the game has started out strong but so did SWTOR, but then again, game had so much hype that, I think, alot of people were blinded and didnt see how flawed the game was.  I personally, dont think GW2 will poop out like SWTOR did.    GW2 is #1 or #2 on the xfire chart, so that is a good sign.   Hopefully we finally have a good alternative to go to for something different instead of Wow, and wont be another AoC, Aion, Warhammer, Rift, TSW, SWTOR. 

Game will sink just like SWToR.... my prediction.

Predictions..predictions..i predict pigs will fly.