Originally posted by littleXuro

I could have seen the childish responses coming from a mile away. MMORPG forums are no place for any serious discussion with valid arguments.

 

Can any moderator please close this topic? 

Wow really?

Look, there HAS to be something for high level people to work towards PvE-wise if they want to keep playing.  If it wasn't the dungeon grinds, it would be something else.  And then someone would complain about whatever else it is.

So I honestly don't see how this is a problem.

Originally posted by Aerowyn
people complain this game has no grind.. now people complain it has a grind:P  thing is the grind was always known they had a huge grind in GW1 for this sort of stuff.. you need something for people to strive for and keep playing.. the big difference between the grind here is the equipment isn't necesary to be competative in world vs world or be able to complete PVE content. It's something you need to work for and earn but is not necessary to enjoy the rest of the games content.. :)

Shall we call it "Aerowyn's No grind grind"?

Originally posted by Calerxes

MMO's are long term games are they not? if you get it all in the first six months then what?

Play another game and come back when there is more content?

Pehaps this game will some day allow you to ressurect/children at 80, back to level 1 stronger then you first were and when you hit 80 again you'll be even better then your first generation. And perhaps it will allow another ressurecy/child, that is imo another way to handle end game and prefer this method, vs grinding loot on the same quests. But it at least would give the gamer another option for end game.

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Aerowyn
people complain this game has no grind.. now people complain it has a grind:P  thing is the grind was always known they had a huge grind in GW1 for this sort of stuff.. you need something for people to strive for and keep playing.. the big difference between the grind here is the equipment isn't necesary to be competative in world vs world or be able to complete PVE content. It's something you need to work for and earn but is not necessary to enjoy the rest of the games content.. :)

Shall we call it "Aerowyn's No grind grind"?

If you define "grind" as repeatedly doing some content to achieve some goal, and most people do...then MMORPGs are basically predicated on grinds.

Why?

Because the rate of content consumption will always greatly exceed the rate of content creation, so players HAVE to wind up "grinding" in-between content releases.  And this is not bad.  Many people actually enjoy certain grinds...and there are even games that have nearly the sole purpose of grinding (Disgaea).

What is bad IMO, is the rat race.  The rat race is what happens when you feel pressure to constantly grind because, if you don't, you will get "left behind" by your friends and you won't be able to play with them.  This is where it gets bad...because you feel FORCED to grind, when you don't necessarily want to.

And the rat race is actually what GW2 has sought to fix.  Because of the level down-scaling, WvW level up-scaling, and no stat-grind at end-game, you don't feel as much pressure to constantly "keep up with the joneses."  You can still grind, but you can do it at your pace.

I think that is a big deal.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Aerowyn
people complain this game has no grind.. now people complain it has a grind:P  thing is the grind was always known they had a huge grind in GW1 for this sort of stuff.. you need something for people to strive for and keep playing.. the big difference between the grind here is the equipment isn't necesary to be competative in world vs world or be able to complete PVE content. It's something you need to work for and earn but is not necessary to enjoy the rest of the games content.. :)

Shall we call it "Aerowyn's No grind grind"?

If you define "grind" as repeatedly doing some content to achieve some goal, and most people do...then MMORPGs are basically predicated on grinds.

Why?

Because the rate of content consumption will always greatly exceed the rate of content creation, so players HAVE to wind up "grinding" in-between content releases.  And this is not bad.  Many people actually enjoy certain grinds...and there are even games that have nearly the sole purpose of grinding (Disgaea).

What is bad IMO, is the rat race.  The rat race is what happens when you feel pressure to constantly grind because, if you don't, you will get "left behind" by your friends and you won't be able to play with them.  This is where it gets bad...because you feel FORCED to grind, when you don't necessarily want to.

And the rat race is actually what GW2 has sought to fix.  Because of the level down-scaling, WvW level up-scaling, and no stat-grind at end-game, you don't feel as much pressure to constantly "keep up with the joneses."  You can still grind, but you can do it at your pace.

I think that is a big deal.

For me personally, I just say everything you do in an mmorpg is a grind.  Don't take that as a serious thing, it's just a mindset to keep moving forward with progression left over from the good old days.  I don't see grind as the big negative that kiddies today have with it.  Rose colored glasses?  Perhaps. 

As to GW2, it's a solid game and will do very well.  I don't see what will make this my go to game or what will keep me around for a long time like some of the games of old.  Without having to pay a sub fee, I can come and go at will.

Originally posted by littleXuro

To obtain 1 mere set of all available dungeon sets, you need to run explorable mode 60+ times atleast. Assuming you want to obtain several sets to have unique looks for all your characters, you have to do a few hundred runs, all lasting 2+ hours on average.

Last time I remember, ArenaNet said you would get a reward each run to prevent this kind of grind.

Words cannot describe how dissappointed I am, waited 4 years for it and again it's just another grind if I want to build unique characters.

 

Anyone else feels the same?

I don't remember that.   What I remember was no gear-grind for STATS gear and the grind was for cosmetic gear.   Which is what you're grinding from how I understand your post.

Originally posted by Wookieebob

Originally posted by Deolus
Is the bank big enough to hold all those equipment sets?

Cash Shop to the rescue!

Not neccesarily. Yesterday I exchanged silver for gems, 10 silver have 33 gems. I am level 30 now and I been blowing off a lot of money, anyone at 80 must be able to fill all the bankslots in a few hours tops.

But yes, if you want all armorsets in the game at the bank you need to upgrade it and you need to spend a long time grinding but that is hardly surprising, thry to get all armorsets in Wow...

But buying stuff for real money is a noob thing.

Originally posted by littleXuro

To obtain 1 mere set of all available dungeon sets, you need to run explorable mode 60+ times atleast. Assuming you want to obtain several sets to have unique looks for all your characters, you have to do a few hundred runs, all lasting 2+ hours on average.

Last time I remember, ArenaNet said you would get a reward each run to prevent this kind of grind.

Words cannot describe how dissappointed I am, waited 4 years for it and again it's just another grind if I want to build unique characters.

 

Anyone else feels the same?

I think you understood NOTHING.

Unlike in most MMOS,in GW2 you DON¨T NEED to grind any gear to be competitive.

You just Don´t need to.

They still provide grinding for super rares skins for those who do like grinding.

Do you see the difference now?

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Wookieebob

Originally posted by Deolus
Is the bank big enough to hold all those equipment sets?

Cash Shop to the rescue!

Not neccesarily. Yesterday I exchanged silver for gems, 10 silver have 33 gems. I am level 30 now and I been blowing off a lot of money, anyone at 80 must be able to fill all the bankslots in a few hours tops.

But yes, if you want all armorsets in the game at the bank you need to upgrade it and you need to spend a long time grinding but that is hardly surprising, thry to get all armorsets in Wow...

But buying stuff for real money is a noob thing.

I'll explain my cash shop experience so far. I don't even call it a cash shop, it's the ingame gold shop. Here is a list of everything I have bought from the ingame gold shop so far:

• Deluxe Edition Upgrade (2000 gems)
• 4 Bank Upgrades (600 x 4 = 2400 gems)
• 2 Bag Slots (400 x 2 = 800 gems)

People complain if they run out of content, or they complain that it is too much of a grind.  

I think ArenaNet did a fine job at making the leveling experience a fun journey for your main AND alts, unlike other MMOs that simply feel like a level grind.  At the level cap, I would rather see rewarding, long-term goals than have little to strive for.

Originally posted by Shodanas

Originally posted by Beacker
I am so sick of the grind QQ. Everyone has to whine and cry about it. Get over it. Every freakin MMO is going to have one. One persons definition of a grind differs from the next. Stop playing MMO's if you don't like it. That is just how the genre is. Some games more than others. Go find something else productive to do in the game or in real life for that matter. Obviously a lot of you never played EQ1 or Lineage or other games. You have to work towards things in an MMO. People shouldn't just get max level and be handed everything I am sorry but that is just stupid. You want something put the time in. If not then don't. MMO's are a time sink investment period. Suck it up and play the game or quit MMO's altogether end of story.

Your arguments are valid. However, i remember various posts with GW 2 fanboys jumping on people's throats when the grind issue came forward. "GW2 has no grind whatsoever", "GW2 does things completely different", "You won't have to do the same thing twice" etc..

No, that's not true.    The claims were:

1.   There is no mandatory-stats-gear grind-cycle to support ever (marginally) increasing dungeon difficulties in 'end game.' This remains true.

2.  Not even close to the way you're  implying.  It is not a linear-rush-to-end-on-a-fixed-path game.  It is not a fixed, static game where you complete an event (quest) and nothing changes, not even slightly.     The world changes and your parth through the world changes.   Somethings will be the same.  Some will be vastly different.   And you, the player, have a great deal of control over that.   Unlike fixed-path, linear games like SWTOR.

3.  That also wasn't said that way.   What was said that there will be different DEs, 100's per area, each that will be on a very long cycle so that when rolled up a second character you wouldn't be repeating 100% the same material like in SWTOR, where every class (Jedi, Consular, Imperial Agent, etc) has 100% the same character story with no meaningful deviations, and 80% of what you do over-all is identical across all characters in a faction.   Every Jedi Knight does 80% of the same story as every Consular, Trooper or Smuggler.

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Shodanas

Originally posted by Beacker
I am so sick of the grind QQ. Everyone has to whine and cry about it. Get over it. Every freakin MMO is going to have one. One persons definition of a grind differs from the next. Stop playing MMO's if you don't like it. That is just how the genre is. Some games more than others. Go find something else productive to do in the game or in real life for that matter. Obviously a lot of you never played EQ1 or Lineage or other games. You have to work towards things in an MMO. People shouldn't just get max level and be handed everything I am sorry but that is just stupid. You want something put the time in. If not then don't. MMO's are a time sink investment period. Suck it up and play the game or quit MMO's altogether end of story.

Your arguments are valid. However, i remember various posts with GW 2 fanboys jumping on people's throats when the grind issue came forward. "GW2 has no grind whatsoever", "GW2 does things completely different", "You won't have to do the same thing twice" etc..

 

No, that's not true.    The claims were:

 

1.   There is no mandatory-stats-gear grind-cycle to support ever (marginally) increasing dungeon difficulties in 'end game.' This remains true.

 

2.  Not even close to the way you're  implying.  It is not a linear-rush-to-end-on-a-fixed-path game.  It is not a fixed, static game where you complete an event (quest) and nothing changes, not even slightly.     The world changes and your parth through the world changes.   Somethings will be the same.  Some will be vastly different.   And you, the player, have a great deal of control over that.   Unlike fixed-path, linear games like SWTOR.

 

3.  That also wasn't said that way.   What was said that there will be different DEs, 100's per area, each that will be on a very long cycle so that when rolled up a second character you wouldn't be repeating 100% the same material like in SWTOR, where every class (Jedi, Consular, Imperial Agent, etc) has 100% the same character story with no meaningful deviations, and 80% of what you do over-all is identical across all characters in a faction.   Every Jedi Knight does 80% of the same story as every Consular, Trooper or Smuggler.

 

 Wrong, this is absolutely the same way, you can choose to look at it differently, but the story works out with as little deviation from person to person as SWTOR.

My favorite new excuse is "slow down and enjoy the game" it's all the rage now that objective players can clearly see that this game has the same play and feel as every other themepark.

Of course when it was SWTOR it was I hate the planet quests, I space bar through the content, I got to endgame in a week, this horrifies GW2 fanboys because then they have to come up with an excuse for GW2s endgame.

I really enjoy the game.......for what it is, another well made themepark mmorpg, but SWTOR has every bit as much content and was butchered for what you all clammer over at light speed.

Fair is fair, this game is good, but not better than anything else out there. Exept it's F2P at launch, that is the truth.

This..vs WoW's 3 month grind and still got nothing.

At least it shows your progress toward your goal. Heh.

There are tons of things you can get besides the dungeons sets.  I expected those to be a grind just like the sets in GW1 were.

Some people need that grind.  I don't and I won't bother with trying to get those sets.

Originally posted by rdrpappy

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Shodanas

Originally posted by Beacker
I am so sick of the grind QQ. Everyone has to whine and cry about it. Get over it. Every freakin MMO is going to have one. One persons definition of a grind differs from the next. Stop playing MMO's if you don't like it. That is just how the genre is. Some games more than others. Go find something else productive to do in the game or in real life for that matter. Obviously a lot of you never played EQ1 or Lineage or other games. You have to work towards things in an MMO. People shouldn't just get max level and be handed everything I am sorry but that is just stupid. You want something put the time in. If not then don't. MMO's are a time sink investment period. Suck it up and play the game or quit MMO's altogether end of story.

Your arguments are valid. However, i remember various posts with GW 2 fanboys jumping on people's throats when the grind issue came forward. "GW2 has no grind whatsoever", "GW2 does things completely different", "You won't have to do the same thing twice" etc..

 

No, that's not true.    The claims were:

 

1.   There is no mandatory-stats-gear grind-cycle to support ever (marginally) increasing dungeon difficulties in 'end game.' This remains true.

 

2.  Not even close to the way you're  implying.  It is not a linear-rush-to-end-on-a-fixed-path game.  It is not a fixed, static game where you complete an event (quest) and nothing changes, not even slightly.     The world changes and your parth through the world changes.   Somethings will be the same.  Some will be vastly different.   And you, the player, have a great deal of control over that.   Unlike fixed-path, linear games like SWTOR.

 

3.  That also wasn't said that way.   What was said that there will be different DEs, 100's per area, each that will be on a very long cycle so that when rolled up a second character you wouldn't be repeating 100% the same material like in SWTOR, where every class (Jedi, Consular, Imperial Agent, etc) has 100% the same character story with no meaningful deviations, and 80% of what you do over-all is identical across all characters in a faction.   Every Jedi Knight does 80% of the same story as every Consular, Trooper or Smuggler.

 

 Wrong, this is absolutely the same way, you can choose to look at it differently, but the story works out with as little deviation from person to person as SWTOR.

My favorite new excuse is "slow down and enjoy the game" it's all the rage now that objective players can clearly see that this game has the same play and feel as every other themepark.

Of course when it was SWTOR it was I hate the planet quests, I space bar through the content, I got to endgame in a week, this horrifies GW2 fanboys because then they have to come up with an excuse for GW2s endgame.

I really enjoy the game.......for what it is, another well made themepark mmorpg, but SWTOR has every bit as much content and was butchered for what you all clammer over at light speed.

Fair is fair, this game is good, but not better than anything else out there. Exept it's F2P at launch, that is the truth.

 

There are people who treat the game the same way and long for it to be WoW or DAOC 2.0.  But the game is not that way it spreads out in many directions as to what you may wish to go after.

SWTOR does not have as much content.  Not even close.  You are glossing over so many different things to make a point that really doesn't even need to be made.  If you only look at personal story and dungeons then sure fine compare away.  Of course you are missing 80% of the game when you do so.  DEs, crafting, creating legendary items, WvW, karma vendors.

I don't know how thats considered a grind to be honest. If I remember right the dungeon sets are only for cosmetic value. You're not forced to grind for them. To me a grind is having to do something to enjoy the game, you're not forced to dungeon grind to get that gear.

People really need to figure that out. Also if you are a pvp player and looked at just how many points it takes to get the highest rank/highest title some people will say thats a "grind". Honestly I love that about gw2, there are so many hard/damn near unreachable things in the game, but guess what, none of them are manditory. It's not like you need to be rank 110 pvp to enjoy the game, but its there and you can spend years trying to get it if you want to.

Honestly there's no mandatory grind for anything in gw2, there's just a lot of hard to reach things in the game (IE highest pvp rank/full dungeon sets, etc). For once in a mmo you don't have to kill some dragon 10 times and get all the best gear then be bored, or spend 2 weeks getting the highest pvp rank there is. It actually takes a lot of time to do these things, and it should, it gives players something to work towards.

Too many people now days just expect everything to be given to them in a short amount of time, and when they aren't given it, it's a "grind". 

Oh look! Despite the naysayers before launch, there is stuff to do at 80!

And thankfully, you do not need to do that "grind" to get good gear at 80 either.

Exactly what ANet promised...

Originally posted by Wookieebob

Originally posted by Deolus
Is the bank big enough to hold all those equipment sets?

Cash Shop to the rescue!

Who needs cash shop when gems are so cheap? I already bought an additional character slot without spending even a cent of real money. Not that I really needed it. I did it mostly out of principle.

And my main isn't even L40 yet.

Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by Loke666

Not neccesarily. Yesterday I exchanged silver for gems, 10 silver have 33 gems. I am level 30 now and I been blowing off a lot of money, anyone at 80 must be able to fill all the bankslots in a few hours tops.

But yes, if you want all armorsets in the game at the bank you need to upgrade it and you need to spend a long time grinding but that is hardly surprising, thry to get all armorsets in Wow...

But buying stuff for real money is a noob thing.

I'll explain my cash shop experience so far. I don't even call it a cash shop, it's the ingame gold shop. Here is a list of everything I have bought from the ingame gold shop so far:

• Deluxe Edition Upgrade (2000 gems)
• 4 Bank Upgrades (600 x 4 = 2400 gems)
• 2 Bag Slots (400 x 2 = 800 gems)

That's 5200 gems.

 

I have not bought any gems with real money, earned all the gold myself (only a little trading involved when the trade post was working) and my total hours played is about 120 hours.

 

Cash shop comments are void. 100% void. I have proved it.

Ok, you farmed a lot more gold than me but otherwise we share the same experience. :)

As for huge grind, GW1 also have a huge grind but it is an optional grind. That is how things should be.

Getting an Obsidian armor in GW1 is a task that beats most things. But that is fine, you do as good with a standard armor you get really fast.

GW2 is somewhat more gear focused but no enough to be annoying. What good is getting the coolest armor in the game if everyone and their grandmother have it?