Trending Games | Pirate101 | ArcheAge | Wasteland 2 | Destiny

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,858,729 Users Online:0
Games:742  Posts:6,243,930
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » F2P: CoX shows that it is no guarantee of saving SWTOR

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search
51 posts found
  Esquire1980

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/12/07
Posts: 530

9/01/12 12:32:31 PM#21

Here's hoping this is a wake-up call for the entire MMORPG industry.  I tried CoX several years back (free trial) and I didn't make it thru that trial for the exact same reasoning as I left TOR.  The gameplay.

F2P can not save a game that is lacking in the basic game.  ONLY post launch development and changing directions in development can do that.  No studio can keep up in a themepark model with players unsatiable want/need for more and more content.  There has to be something else there that keeps a playerbase while waiting for that more and more content or development swings in direction.

TOR simply does not have any of that and no amount of added instances (more of basicly the same as it has now),  that will take development "6 weeks" (yeah right) and players a few days to burn thru, will fix that problem.  They can even add difiiiculty to no end in their instances and it will become moot as most of the playerbase will just find it impossible and stop even trying more quickly than if they could burn thru it. (put it on farm) Then there's that pesky little deal of feeling your being nickle and dimed to death, everytime you turn around, that tends to come in a F2P game and most certainly leads to P2W.  You simply do not end up feeling as invested in a F2P game as a sub based game due to nothing more than these facts.

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

9/01/12 12:47:11 PM#22

Blame it on what you will, overly hopeful expectations, a boom-bust economic mentality, whatever.

FTP has been getting serious industry cheerleading. The most egregious example being:

http://www.examiner.com/article/analyst-swtor-move-to-free-to-play-could-attract-up-to-50-million-players

Pachter went from somewhat rosy SWTOR p2p glasses in 2011 up to Fenruary 2012 to FTP is splitting the MMO atom.

He states that the only two things that were holding SWTO back from financial windfall were the monthly subscription cost, and the cost of the game's box.

I don't want people to argue why Pachter might be smoking whacky tobacky, but acknowledge that FTP has been quite hyped as of late.

  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1010

9/01/12 12:50:30 PM#23
Of course there is no garantee, but it seems like it IS garanted to fail if it stays on its present course.
  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3735

RIP City of Heroes!

9/01/12 12:59:50 PM#24
Originally posted by Esquire1980

Here's hoping this is a wake-up call for the entire MMORPG industry.  I tried CoX several years back (free trial) and I didn't make it thru that trial for the exact same reasoning as I left TOR.  The gameplay.

F2P can not save a game that is lacking in the basic game.  ONLY post launch development and changing directions in development can do that.  No studio can keep up in a themepark model with players unsatiable want/need for more and more content.  There has to be something else there that keeps a playerbase while waiting for that more and more content or development swings in direction.

TOR simply does not have any of that and no amount of added instances (more of basicly the same as it has now),  that will take development "6 weeks" (yeah right) and players a few days to burn thru, will fix that problem.  They can even add difiiiculty to no end in their instances and it will become moot as most of the playerbase will just find it impossible and stop even trying more quickly than if they could burn thru it. (put it on farm) Then there's that pesky little deal of feeling your being nickle and dimed to death, everytime you turn around, that tends to come in a F2P game and most certainly leads to P2W.  You simply do not end up feeling as invested in a F2P game as a sub based game due to nothing more than these facts.

Did  you start at coh release or much later?  The game has a lot of content.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7195

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

9/01/12 1:03:20 PM#25
Originally posted by tiefighter25

Blame it on what you will, overly hopeful expectations, a boom-bust economic mentality, whatever.

FTP has been getting serious industry cheerleading. The most egregious example being:

http://www.examiner.com/article/analyst-swtor-move-to-free-to-play-could-attract-up-to-50-million-players

Pachter went from somewhat rosy SWTOR p2p glasses in 2011 up to Fenruary 2012 to FTP is splitting the MMO atom.

He states that the only two things that were holding SWTO back from financial windfall were the monthly subscription cost, and the cost of the game's box.

I don't want people to argue why Pachter might be smoking whacky tobacky, but acknowledge that FTP has been quite hyped as of late.

 

It has been pushed and shilled for the last 2 years at least. Anyone else remember the 'F2P Movement' website?

 

oh, yeah, here... http://www.f2pmovement.com/ ... Pure unadulterated marketing and opinion forming founded by Luis Paulo Dobreira of the F2P commericial portal MMObomb and the Portugese PlanetaJogos.pt.

 

Key sites and opinion formers have been targetted to deliver a very clear marketing message, that the sub is dead and F2P is the only choice. It was only a few days ago I recieved an email from Kotaku hammering that exact message yet again.

 

If some consumers out there want to believe that the selling of this revenue model is being done to benefit them, fine, I can't change that, but I personally seriously doubt that.

 

Pachter is just yet another monkey at the organ.

  Jaedor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 916

9/01/12 1:06:56 PM#26


Originally posted by Loktofeit
When the problem is a mediocre game, a business model change won't save it. Just because it's now a more palatable model doesn't make it now a more compelling game.

Question though... who ever said F2P can save a bad game?


Don't think anyone did, but LOTRO is generally used as a shining example of how going F2P saved the game.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3735

RIP City of Heroes!

9/01/12 1:29:26 PM#27
Originally posted by Jaedor

 


Originally posted by Loktofeit
When the problem is a mediocre game, a business model change won't save it. Just because it's now a more palatable model doesn't make it now a more compelling game.

 

Question though... who ever said F2P can save a bad game?


 

Don't think anyone did, but LOTRO is generally used as a shining example of how going F2P saved the game.

LOTRO made it's investment back before going ftp so the cost of going FTP was much lower.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

9/01/12 1:32:31 PM#28
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by tiefighter25

Blame it on what you will, overly hopeful expectations, a boom-bust economic mentality, whatever.

FTP has been getting serious industry cheerleading. The most egregious example being:

http://www.examiner.com/article/analyst-swtor-move-to-free-to-play-could-attract-up-to-50-million-players

Pachter went from somewhat rosy SWTOR p2p glasses in 2011 up to Fenruary 2012 to FTP is splitting the MMO atom.

He states that the only two things that were holding SWTO back from financial windfall were the monthly subscription cost, and the cost of the game's box.

I don't want people to argue why Pachter might be smoking whacky tobacky, but acknowledge that FTP has been quite hyped as of late.

 

It has been pushed and shilled for the last 2 years at least. Anyone else remember the 'F2P Movement' website?

 

oh, yeah, here... http://www.f2pmovement.com/ ... Pure unadulterated marketing and opinion forming founded by Luis Paulo Dobreira of the F2P commericial portal MMObomb and the Portugese PlanetaJogos.pt.

 

Key sites and opinion formers have been targetted to deliver a very clear marketing message, that the sub is dead and F2P is the only choice. It was only a few days ago I recieved an email from Kotaku hammering that exact message yet again.

 

If some consumers out there want to believe that the selling of this revenue model is being done to benefit them, fine, I can't change that, but I personally seriously doubt that.

 

Pachter is just yet another monkey at the organ.

It's been pushed for a good while now from other sources, like MMOHut (youtube).

 

I believe that the premise of F2P is wholeheartedly good, for everyone.  It allows developers to showcase their product to the masses without an entry fee.  Beyond that, however, is where it gets murky.

 

Many companies pollute the F2P ideology by disguising their P2P game as F2P, a practice understood as Freemium.  In SWTOR's case, they will offer an extended demo up to level 50, under heavy restrictions, with little to no actual level 50 content available.  All this being done while the subscribing portion of this "F2P" game will have their level caps increased and be moving on to Makeb.  All players won't be on an equal playing field, so it's really only Free to Play as far as a demo for any particular game is free to play.  You can play ... BUT you can not play everything the game has.

It's not the first time for such deceit, and, unfortunately, probably not the last either.

 

As for Pachter, I'm under the impression that he is either dilusional, or simply trying to promote this game, for whatever reason.  Too many business models, in computer games or elsewhere, tend to simply predict future trends based on past events.  They don't look at the core mitigating factors that are causing or will cause behavioral changes.

EA is an example of a company that doesn't "get it".  You see, they look at the marketplace and realize, "WoW is popular.  We need to do what they are doing."  When that fails because they didn't analyze enough of the key factors, then they realize, "F2P titles which are really Freemium are popular.  We need to be doing what those other companies are doing."  Now whether that fails or not, take it as you will, but I don't believe this will suceed.  For one, they don't have a game worth a longterm investment.   Additionally, their Freemium model further restricts a game that already had too little to do (or wasn't designed well either).

If EA was in tune with realistic predictions, they would branch this game into something brand new.  Something people would talk about, since it is exclusive to SWTOR.  As it is, there is nothing much to talk about.  They did full voice overs in an MMO, for 8 classes, which was huge - but most players will do 1 class and quit, which makes all their efforts wasted.  For the 2 million that played and quit, full voice for 8 classes did not save the day.

For what EA should do with F2P is just follow NCSoft's Truly Free concept.  NCSoft gets it though - to make a game popular you need to keep the world populated for the fluff cashshop paying members to continue their enjoyment.  Even if a bunch of people never spend a dime, the ones that do spend money won't go away.  And if the game does go under, at least former players will have fond memories of the development company and their publisher.  How many people have or will have fond memories of EA or Bioware as a result of SWTOR & it's design / FTP model?

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Esquire1980

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/12/07
Posts: 530

9/01/12 5:28:37 PM#29
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Esquire1980

Here's hoping this is a wake-up call for the entire MMORPG industry.  I tried CoX several years back (free trial) and I didn't make it thru that trial for the exact same reasoning as I left TOR.  The gameplay.

F2P can not save a game that is lacking in the basic game.  ONLY post launch development and changing directions in development can do that.  No studio can keep up in a themepark model with players unsatiable want/need for more and more content.  There has to be something else there that keeps a playerbase while waiting for that more and more content or development swings in direction.

TOR simply does not have any of that and no amount of added instances (more of basicly the same as it has now),  that will take development "6 weeks" (yeah right) and players a few days to burn thru, will fix that problem.  They can even add difiiiculty to no end in their instances and it will become moot as most of the playerbase will just find it impossible and stop even trying more quickly than if they could burn thru it. (put it on farm) Then there's that pesky little deal of feeling your being nickle and dimed to death, everytime you turn around, that tends to come in a F2P game and most certainly leads to P2W.  You simply do not end up feeling as invested in a F2P game as a sub based game due to nothing more than these facts.

Did  you start at coh release or much later?  The game has a lot of content.

It wasn't content I was pointing out above.  It is the design of gameplay, itself.  WoW has massive content and it wasn't my game either and I just tried that for the 1st real time a couple of months ago.  Got a pal up to 60-something before I just couldn't handle nothing but questing anymore.

I think it was either after NGE (Nov 2005) or shortly after C6CD (around May 2007/8) that I tried CoH.  It just wasn't my game.  No housing, crafting was simple compared to SWG, drop economy, all questing, in fact CoH was 1 of the 1st MMOs I got the feeling of I'm playing their game, their way, and not mine.  Admitedly, I didn't see much of it as I didn't make it thru the free trial period before uninstaling.

TOR has exactly that same feeling (for me anyway) along with the added feeling of "I've seen that game before, oh yeah, it's WoW with lightsabers".

  audiophilus

Novice Member

Joined: 5/25/05
Posts: 6

9/01/12 11:29:37 PM#30
LOTORO had a very well thought out F2P model and COX did not. That needs to be consdered when comparissons are made.
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12278

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

9/02/12 7:52:49 AM#31
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Jaedor

 


Originally posted by Loktofeit
When the problem is a mediocre game, a business model change won't save it. Just because it's now a more palatable model doesn't make it now a more compelling game.

 

Question though... who ever said F2P can save a bad game?


 

Don't think anyone did, but LOTRO is generally used as a shining example of how going F2P saved the game.

LOTRO made it's investment back before going ftp so the cost of going FTP was much lower.

Exactly. Jaedor, I think you're thinking of DDO. Either that or you've been reading too many of the Sub Or Die crowd's talking points. :)

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1278

 
OP  9/02/12 10:19:33 AM#32
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Jaedor

 


Originally posted by Loktofeit
When the problem is a mediocre game, a business model change won't save it. Just because it's now a more palatable model doesn't make it now a more compelling game.

 

Question though... who ever said F2P can save a bad game?


 

Don't think anyone did, but LOTRO is generally used as a shining example of how going F2P saved the game.

LOTRO made it's investment back before going ftp so the cost of going FTP was much lower.

Exactly. Jaedor, I think you're thinking of DDO. Either that or you've been reading too many of the Sub Or Die crowd's talking points. :)

Suspect Jaedor may be thinking of DDO as well - not that it matters. The cost of DDO and LotR was swept up in whatever Warner Bros. paid for Funcom when they bought them. They will have seen the books and if the price paid will have reflected whatever the games were earning.

Same applied to SWTOR as well of course as EA bought Bioware and a % of the $620M cash that EA paid was for the SWTOR game under development. (The $860M figure is what the shareholders paid when stock options are allowed for).

DDO though - did it ever announce 100k sales post launch. It certainly had very little content. Announced lots of new players when it went F2P of course but since then .... same with LotR.

That said I think DDO and LotR are both moving away from "F2P" and seem to be adopting the paid xpac route of GW1 / GW2. Maybe not totally however - which may tarnish the player experience.

I don't see any sign of SWTOR going down this route at the moment however - just a cash shop. And that will need huge numbers of people ...

  theniffrig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/07
Posts: 352

Ooh, they have the internet on computers now.

9/02/12 10:27:22 AM#33

Question: If SWTOR was free to play right now, would you play it?

My answer: No. In its current form I wouldn't be motivated to log in and play it, free or otherwise.

  Einherjar_LC

Tipster

Joined: 5/03/05
Posts: 1067

9/02/12 10:39:25 AM#34
Originally posted by theniffrig

Question: If SWTOR was free to play right now, would you play it?

My answer: No. In its current form I wouldn't be motivated to log in and play it, free or otherwise.

Exactly, nothing has changed other than the payment model which was never the core issue with SWToR.

 

I personally think the genre going down this whole F2P, and Freemium is a farce.  I quit LOTRO when it went freemium and I was a lifetime founder.  I lost all interest when TSW went sub + cash shop.  As stated above, I wouldn't go back to SWTOR even though it is F2P.

 

Developers need to get in their heads that the pricing model is not the issue, the poor games are.  That's why there has been such a push for these types of models by players...they're tired of getting hammered for box + sub for what amounts to a console game.

 

Once a developer does "get it" and offers a solid MMO instead of single player RPGs, they may find customers willing to pay a sub for an extended stay in their world.

 

Again all IMO.

Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

9/02/12 3:32:41 PM#35
The only thing that the closing of City of Heroes proves is that MMOs don't last forever. Something that the rapid fans of any game should keep in mind before sinking too much money and time in. It's bound to happen eventually. 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Souldrainer

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/06
Posts: 1878

9/02/12 6:52:05 PM#36

I agree with the guy who inapropriately used the bright red, eye-bleeding text.  Is that sad to say?

 

SWTOR is definitely not related to COX in any way. 

Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  thinktank001

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1862

9/02/12 7:47:32 PM#37
Originally posted by Creslin321

I think that studios will find the F2P market much more competitive now, and thus we will start seeing more F2P failures.  When P2P to F2P conversions first started, the F2P market was populated only by mediocre or P2W games.  So when a premium game like LOTRO or DDO went F2P, it wasn't hard for it to compete.

now though, the F2P market has several premium games, and the non-sub market now has what many believe to be the best MMORPG in the industry, GW2.  So when a game goes F2P, it's no longer just competing with mediocre games, it has real competition from the big boys.  The F2P bubble is about to bust.

 

I simply can't state how disappointed I am with your post.   It doesn't have anything to do with the other games in the market.   That is part of the beauty of P2W business model.   There is no competition for a players " sub money ".  

 

LOL at your GW2 " greatest game ever " comment.   

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

IMHO, a game has to have the right conditions for a P2P:P2W conversion to work.  

 

1.  The game has to be absolute dead.  Not dieing

2.  The game needs to already have game mechanics that easily support P2W.

 

DDO had both of those and is doing great.

 

LOTRO had none of those and is doing poorly.

 

AoC had one of those and is doing poorly.

 

SWTOR doesn't have any of those and will fail miserably.   

 

 

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

9/02/12 10:35:46 PM#38
Originally posted by thinktank001
Originally posted by Creslin321

I think that studios will find the F2P market much more competitive now, and thus we will start seeing more F2P failures.  When P2P to F2P conversions first started, the F2P market was populated only by mediocre or P2W games.  So when a premium game like LOTRO or DDO went F2P, it wasn't hard for it to compete.

now though, the F2P market has several premium games, and the non-sub market now has what many believe to be the best MMORPG in the industry, GW2.  So when a game goes F2P, it's no longer just competing with mediocre games, it has real competition from the big boys.  The F2P bubble is about to bust.

 

I simply can't state how disappointed I am with your post.   It doesn't have anything to do with the other games in the market.   That is part of the beauty of P2W business model.   There is no competition for a players " sub money ".  

 

LOL at your GW2 " greatest game ever " comment.   

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

IMHO, a game has to have the right conditions for a P2P:P2W conversion to work.  

 

1.  The game has to be absolute dead.  Not dieing

2.  The game needs to already have game mechanics that easily support P2W.

 

DDO had both of those and is doing great.

 

LOTRO had none of those and is doing poorly.

 

AoC had one of those and is doing poorly.

 

SWTOR doesn't have any of those and will fail miserably.   

 

P2W works not only for dying games, but for dying companies who produced them.  P2W games will do well upon conversion at first, but then die their death, albeit a little longer than if they never went P2W.  The big change however will be the perception gamers have for that particular company who made the decisions.  The company will die also.

Maybe I'm wrong, but did any game going P2W have a company surrounding it that thrived later?

 

I can think of APB, but when they re-released after P2W failed, the game never took off to huge proportions.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5181

9/03/12 3:12:25 AM#39
Originally posted by Loktofeit

When the problem is a mediocre game, a business model change won't save it. Just because it's now a more palatable model doesn't make it now a more compelling game.

 

Question though... who ever said F2P can save a bad game?

This!

The only reason why LOTRO's switch to Freemium model was a huge success, is because it was a good and succesful game to begin with.

SW:TOR is a bad game with no longetivity... so switching to F2P is not going to save them sadly. :(

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16709

9/03/12 3:18:22 AM#40
Originally posted by ktanner3
The only thing that the closing of City of Heroes proves is that MMOs don't last forever. Something that the rapid fans of any game should keep in mind before sinking too much money and time in. It's bound to happen eventually. 

Partly, but believing going F2P could save any MMO is still not true.

Most people use a certain amount of money for gaming each month so believing that all games would make more profit if you just make them F2P is a bit too good to be true.

It will be a second chanse for TOR but it still needs to become better to keep the players if they want it to work.

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search