Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

Here are some issues that points to certain aspects of todays markets.

1 The  to YOUNG crowd ..to get a monthly subscription fee payd by their parents. We have a massive increase in gamers over the years, most are young and without any income .

Beleive it or not the avg player in WoW is in their 20s.  The "young crown" is the minority.

This in itself generates hate not only towards said parents , but unfortunatly it creates hate towards developers aswell. If I cant play this game, I will hate it and spread ill rumours about it.

2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.

Actually thats false.  For instance DDO.  While one does have to put out an upfront amount of cash but in the long run F2P is much cheaper.  And this comment will be hysterical when TSW goes F2P and it will, the signs are blatenly there as FC is having some serious financial issues. 

3 . The current BETA FREE LOADERS and cheapscates. More and more players DEMAND to play a game for a few weeks before launch, othervise they claim to NOT be playing at all.

What happens in many cases is that before the beta is over many has had their fun in the game, so why even bother paying ..Half the game is even spoiled, wich makes it even harder for said person to really commit to the game..

Sure, having a good beta may even draw in some customers, but the people with money do not run around and play betas..Not in the bigger scope of things atleast. This is ofcourse my opinion, I may be wrong in this, but I think the majority of the beta players are only there to play for free and then set  the game as "played"

It's called a demo that many games offer before having to purchase it.  People should have the option to try out a game before they buy it.  And no the game is not spoiled. I played TSW beta and SWTOR and knew full well what that game had in store whcih was lacklusted mechanics and designs which caused me not to purchase the game.  And you barely scratch the surface of a game in betas, gives you the feel of the game but thats bout it.

4. The PIRATE and torrent market, this one affects the MMO market aswell , even thou we do not think so..It creates a general free to play mentality in itself.

How does this affect the market?  Sure you can get the game but you can't do crap without an account.

Software should be free, why am I suppose to be paying for an MMO when I can play Skyrim absolutly free.

 Because Skyrim isn't an MMO?  I played a few different characters but am always drawn back to MMOs.

Hopefully the market changes eventually, but I'm starting to wonder..really.

 

 

Must be trying really hard now to make yourself feel better at night.  You remind me of BW when they were blaming on the casuals for SWTORs failure and are blinded to the actual defects of the game itself.

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

Here are some issues that points to certain aspects of todays markets.

1 The  to YOUNG crowd ..to get a monthly subscription fee payd by their parents. We have a massive increase in gamers over the years, most are young and without any income .

Beleive it or not the avg player in WoW is in their 20s.  The "young crown" is the minority.

I didnt say they had to be in the majority..Did I ?

This in itself generates hate not only towards said parents , but unfortunatly it creates hate towards developers aswell. If I cant play this game, I will hate it and spread ill rumours about it.

2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.

Actually thats false.  For instance DDO.  While one does have to put out an upfront amount of cash but in the long run F2P is much cheaper.  And this comment will be hysterical when TSW goes F2P and it will, the signs are blatenly there as FC is having some serious financial issues. 

DDO is not a FTP game from the start, It's an MMO created as AA title with a sub, It's also still possible to have a sub in this game.

You do NOT get a FTP game with this kind of quality if the game would have been created with it from the start.  For it to really become cheaper, well it depends on what type of gamer you are , you always have those that pays ALOT  in the store, those people make up for those that do not..So Is it really cheaper, for you maybe , but not overall !!

3 . The current BETA FREE LOADERS and cheapscates. More and more players DEMAND to play a game for a few weeks before launch, othervise they claim to NOT be playing at all.

What happens in many cases is that before the beta is over many has had their fun in the game, so why even bother paying ..Half the game is even spoiled, wich makes it even harder for said person to really commit to the game..

Sure, having a good beta may even draw in some customers, but the people with money do not run around and play betas..Not in the bigger scope of things atleast. This is ofcourse my opinion, I may be wrong in this, but I think the majority of the beta players are only there to play for free and then set  the game as "played"

It's called a demo that many games offer before having to purchase it.  People should have the option to try out a game before they buy it.  And no the game is not spoiled. I played TSW beta and SWTOR and knew full well what that game had in store whcih was lacklusted mechanics and designs which caused me not to purchase the game.  And you barely scratch the surface of a game in betas, gives you the feel of the game but thats bout it.

There is nothing wrong with a "demo" but the demo should be available after launch. The spoiling part naturally depends on how much of the beta you play . The beta is NOT a demo, It's there to make the game better, not for you to deiceide to buy or not.

4. The PIRATE and torrent market, this one affects the MMO market aswell , even thou we do not think so..It creates a general free to play mentality in itself.

How does this affect the market?  Sure you can get the game but you can't do crap without an account.

The torent market affects the attitude in general, FREE is good, thats why there is less people that cares to pay for an MMO ..

Software should be free, why am I suppose to be paying for an MMO when I can play Skyrim absolutly free.

 Because Skyrim isn't an MMO?  I played a few different characters but am always drawn back to MMOs.

I wasnt talking about MMO's here..I was talking about what the torrent market do with gamers mind..Free is always better, and if this game is bad i can always download another.

Hopefully the market changes eventually, but I'm starting to wonder..really.

 

 

Must be trying really hard now to make yourself feel better at night.  You remind me of BW when they were blaming on the casuals for SWTORs failure and are blinded to the actual defects of the game itself.

 Im trying to make sence in this mess, I don't understand how players can have a problem with dishing out 15$/month for a game that lasts longer than ANY singleplayer game with a cost for few beers or a movie ticket.

Originally posted by thark

 Im trying to make sence in this mess, I don't understand how players can have a problem with dishing out 15$/month for a game that lasts longer than ANY singleplayer game with a cost for few beers or a movie ticket.

With DLC for single player games I don't think MMO monthly subs are value for money any more.  A game like Skyrim is value for money 200+ hours of content, then DLC on top.   Main draw with something like that is the player decides if they want the extra content or not - with MMO's you don't decide anything it's like a dictatorship.  For the price of a monthly sub can get you some DLC.

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.

My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.

I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.

I know one thing though.  TSW will NOT pick me.  I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding.  Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.

People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not.  Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.

Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.

Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.

So thanks but no thanks.

Originally posted by fallenlords

Originally posted by thark

 Im trying to make sence in this mess, I don't understand how players can have a problem with dishing out 15$/month for a game that lasts longer than ANY singleplayer game with a cost for few beers or a movie ticket.

With DLC for single player games I don't think MMO monthly subs are value for money any more.  A game like Skyrim is value for money 200+ hours of content, then DLC on top.   Main draw with something like that is the player decides if they want the extra content or not - with MMO's you don't decide anything it's like a dictatorship.  For the price of a monthly sub can get you some DLC.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.  There should not be subscription fees for offline games.  :)

Of course, we're not talking about offline games.

It's like complaining that it costs too much to eat in a restaurant compared to eating at home - ignoring that somebody seats you, takes your order, brings you your drinks, somebody cooks the food, somebody brings you the food, somebody takes the plates away, somebody refills your drinks, somebody brings you dessert if you order it, somebody had to make that dessert, somebody clears that up, somebody cleans up the table you were sitting at so the next person can sit there, somebody has to wash the dishes/silverware/glasses you used, somebody brings you the bill, somebody rings it up on the register...

...it ignores a lot of things.

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.

My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.

I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.

 

I know one thing though.  TSW will NOT pick me.  I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding.  Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.

People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not.  Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.

Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.

Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.

 

So thanks but no thanks.

 You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..

But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion :)

But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,

Software should be free.

My god, it's so simple!  Coders should donate their time!

Originally posted by thark
 

2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.

 

so its bad to buy cash shop in FTP mmos but its totally fine to do it after paying a full priced box and a subscription in TSW?

i love the dark setting in TSW, but thats not enough to pay a sub. I dont like subs but if i were to pay a sub for TSW i expect to have every single item from the cash shop ingame with ingame money, not real money.

paying a subscription and having a cash shop full of items that can only be obtained with real money makes me feel im playing an incomplete game if i dont buy the extra stuff. So i dont pay for those foul managed games. I buy the box and play the first month for free then uninstall

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by thark
 

2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.

 

so its bad to buy cash shop in FTP mmos but its totally fine to do it after paying a full priced box and a subscription in TSW?

i love the dark setting in TSW, but thats not enough to pay a sub. I dont like subs but if i were to pay a sub for TSW i expect to have every single item from the cash shop ingame with ingame money, not real money.

paying a subscription and having a cash shop full of items that can only be obtained with real money makes me feel im playing an incomplete game if i dont buy the extra stuff. So i dont pay for those foul managed games. I buy the box and play the first month for free then uninstall

 

 Hmm..I like your picture :) I just love King Diamond :)

First..I never said it was bad to buy from any cash shop..did I ..? What I ment is that a FTP game may even become more expensive than said game with subscription.

Well..The cash shop in the secret world is ...for the time beiing, only items that doesnt really effect gameplay part from looks..

It's not that there isn't clothing options available ..there is a HUGE amount of clothes in London to be bought . And sets to unlock etc.

But if it is something I will agree upon..It's still abit cheap..

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

Here are some issues that points to certain aspects of todays markets.

1 The  to YOUNG crowd ..to get a monthly subscription fee payd by their parents. We have a massive increase in gamers over the years, most are young and without any income .

This in itself generates hate not only towards said parents , but unfortunatly it creates hate towards developers aswell. If I cant play this game, I will hate it and spread ill rumours about it.

2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.

3 . The current BETA FREE LOADERS and cheapscates. More and more players DEMAND to play a game for a few weeks before launch, othervise they claim to NOT be playing at all.

What happens in many cases is that before the beta is over many has had their fun in the game, so why even bother paying ..Half the game is even spoiled, wich makes it even harder for said person to really commit to the game..

Sure, having a good beta may even draw in some customers, but the people with money do not run around and play betas..Not in the bigger scope of things atleast. This is ofcourse my opinion, I may be wrong in this, but I think the majority of the beta players are only there to play for free and then set  the game as "played"

4. The PIRATE and torrent market, this one affects the MMO market aswell , even thou we do not think so..It creates a general free to play mentality in itself.

Software should be free, why am I suppose to be paying for an MMO when I can play Skyrim absolutly free.

 

Hopefully the market changes eventually, but I'm starting to wonder..really.

 

I'm not sure why you think that The Secret World necessarily attracts or will continue to attract mature gamers just because it has a sub attached and I'm not sure what makes you think people with money don't play betas. I've got a good job and plenty of money and I play betas. I also played TSW beta and for a month after launch and I didn't find the content particularly any more engaging as a mature player than any other game. I don't think that monsters, blood, swearing and a few puzzles make a mature game (to be honest the puzzles are probably easily doable by people in their late teens) or maybe mature for people who want to feel a bit more grown up. I didn't stop playing because it had a sub and I wouldn't continute to play even if I thought the sub would attract a more mature community. The cost of the game plus sub wasn't an issue for me.

Amongst other mmos I play LOTRO (I guess it's one of your kiddie games) which is F2P and what makes it mature gaming for me is the guild I play with and the level of RP that takes place, there are also some complex emotional engagement with quests as well (the death of Theodred at the Isen was moving). It just doesn't follow that kids play the F2P sword and sorcery games and adults with a decent income play sub based games with a setting like TSW. LOTRO on Laurelin has a very mature community and is a F2P game. The best mmos are what you make of it and if it has the flexibility to allow that level of engagement. The criteria for me has always been, and always will be, is it a game I enjoy playing and at the right level of emotional complexity (not game complexity as we all know LOTRO is very easy to play) and with a community to engage me as an adult? At the moment LOTRO does that and TSW didn't i'm afraid. I'm sure there are thousands of mature gamers out there not playing TSW, maybe there are ways of attracting them, but at the moment there is nothing that will attract me back to it.

Originally posted by thark

 Im trying to make sence in this mess, I don't understand how players can have a problem with dishing out 15$/month for a game that lasts longer than ANY singleplayer game with a cost for few beers or a movie ticket.

I think maybe you are starting from the premise that it's a game worth $15 a month to play. Because you like the game, and that's your opinion and fair enough, you find it difficult to understand why people don't sub to TSW. As i've said already the price of the sub isn't the problem with TSW, at least not for me.

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.

My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.

I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.

 

I know one thing though.  TSW will NOT pick me.  I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding.  Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.

People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not.  Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.

Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.

Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.

 

So thanks but no thanks.

 You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..

But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion :)

But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,

Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?

Plus are you also saying it should remain sub based because otherwise it will attract a less mature gamer?

Just trying to work through the argument.

I play World of Warcraft and DC Universe Online currently. One is a subscription only game, one has a free-to-play option. I subscribe to both of them.

I guess they are kiddie games according to the OP, but I wonder if that makes me a "kiddie" for playing them. Interesting thought. Yet, I am 39, four children (oldest 19, youngest only 2), a professional author (yes-- published, yes--award nominated), professional PnP RPG designer and publisher, and make a decent income.

Yet, after trying TSW, I will not pay a subscription for that game. I didn't find the game particularly good from a gameplay standpoint, I found the puzzles simplistic, and the overall theme trying too hard to be "dark and mature" and instead coming off as lackluster and artificial.

Originally posted by Beauman

I play World of Warcraft and DC Universe Online currently. One is a subscription only game, one has a free-to-play option. I subscribe to both of them.

I guess they are kiddie games according to the OP, but I wonder if that makes me a "kiddie" for playing them. Interesting thought. Yet, I am 39, four children (oldest 19, youngest only 2), a professional author (yes-- published, yes--award nominated), professional PnP RPG designer and publisher, and make a decent income.

Yet, after trying TSW, I will not pay a subscription for that game. I didn't find the game particularly good from a gameplay standpoint, I found the puzzles simplistic, and the overall theme trying too hard to be "dark and mature" and instead coming off as lackluster and artificial.

According to OP, you're a kiddie, because you play a popular game like WoW. He hates everything, that is popular. As seen by the fact he didn't answer my last post.

He tries to use age as an argument to sell TSW, he and Funcom both failed miserably, so I don't think you'll see him here again.

However, if you said you were subbing to TSW, you'd be just fine.

Originally posted by Thenextbigthing

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.

My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.

I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.

 

I know one thing though.  TSW will NOT pick me.  I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding.  Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.

People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not.  Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.

Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.

Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.

 

So thanks but no thanks.

 You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..

But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion :)

But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,

 

being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite

 

Plus are you also saying it should remain sub based because otherwise it will attract a less mature gamer?

 

Just trying to work through the argument.

 My argument is that the fee is not expensive, ..I do not think that was hard to understand.

My points in my initial post refer to .."reasons" IMO why players all of a sudden has started to feel that a subscription fee for a AA title is out of the question..

"being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite "

Sorry,  I don't really understand what you mean by this ..at all.

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by Thenextbigthing

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.

My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.

I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.

 

I know one thing though.  TSW will NOT pick me.  I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding.  Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.

People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not.  Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.

Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.

Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.

 

So thanks but no thanks.

 You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..

But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion :)

But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,

 

being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite

 

Plus are you also saying it should remain sub based because otherwise it will attract a less mature gamer?

 

Just trying to work through the argument.

 My argument is that the fee is not expensive, ..I do not think that was hard to understand.

My points in my initial post refer to .."reasons" IMO why players all of a sudden has started to feel that a subscription fee for a AA title is out of the question..

"being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite "

Sorry,  I don't really understand what you mean by this ..at all.

 

Probably because you've chopped and garbled my original post and now it doesn't make sense.

Here it is again:

"Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?"

Originally posted by Beauman

I play World of Warcraft and DC Universe Online currently. One is a subscription only game, one has a free-to-play option. I subscribe to both of them.

I guess they are kiddie games according to the OP, but I wonder if that makes me a "kiddie" for playing them. Interesting thought. Yet, I am 39, four children (oldest 19, youngest only 2), a professional author (yes-- published, yes--award nominated), professional PnP RPG designer and publisher, and make a decent income.

Yet, after trying TSW, I will not pay a subscription for that game. I didn't find the game particularly good from a gameplay standpoint, I found the puzzles simplistic, and the overall theme trying too hard to be "dark and mature" and instead coming off as lackluster and artificial.

 Hmm..Ok. ..So you think I label everyone that plays a certain game " a kiddie"  ? 

Please re-read my initial posts in that case..I may be a bit rusty on the communication skills since English is not my first language..But that was NOT what I ment, far from it..

I have played both of those games myself and I'm even older than you :) Not that 39 or 45 is old , mind you !!

The article is about why we all of a sudden find gamers that express them selfs like..(Obvioiusly both young and old )

-If I am going to play this game they better have it free to play, or else I won't play it ..

There could be several reasons for this, and this is what the article really is about..Nothing else.

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by Beauman

I play World of Warcraft and DC Universe Online currently. One is a subscription only game, one has a free-to-play option. I subscribe to both of them.

I guess they are kiddie games according to the OP, but I wonder if that makes me a "kiddie" for playing them. Interesting thought. Yet, I am 39, four children (oldest 19, youngest only 2), a professional author (yes-- published, yes--award nominated), professional PnP RPG designer and publisher, and make a decent income.

Yet, after trying TSW, I will not pay a subscription for that game. I didn't find the game particularly good from a gameplay standpoint, I found the puzzles simplistic, and the overall theme trying too hard to be "dark and mature" and instead coming off as lackluster and artificial.

 Hmm..Ok. ..So you think I label everyone that plays a certain game " a kiddie"  ? 

Please re-read my initial posts in that case..I may be a bit rusty on the communication skills since English is not my first language..But that was NOT what I ment, far from it..

I have played both of those games myself and I'm even older than you :) Not that 39 or 45 is old , mind you !!

The article is about why we all of a sudden find gamers that express them selfs like..(Obvioiusly both young and old )

-If I am going to play this game they better have it free to play, or else I won't play it ..

There could be several reasons for this, and this is what the article really is about..Nothing else.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps you should answer my last post. (on page 2, that you conviniently ignored completely).

You say right now, that you don't label everyone who plays a certain game a kiddie. Yet 2 days ago you said: "Yes..WoW ..is still a "kiddie" game.." You have never raided, you know nothing about difficulty, yet your TSW is so hard and requires much brains to play. Basically you'd be a noob in WoW, which you so much hate, you'd be a casual scrub, who knows nothing about raiding (hard content).

At least delete your previous response, before talking completely out of your ass.

Originally posted by Thenextbigthing

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by Thenextbigthing

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.

My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.

I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.

 

I know one thing though.  TSW will NOT pick me.  I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding.  Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.

People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not.  Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.

Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.

Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.

 

So thanks but no thanks.

 You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..

But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion :)

But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,

 

being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite

 

Plus are you also saying it should remain sub based because otherwise it will attract a less mature gamer?

 

Just trying to work through the argument.

 My argument is that the fee is not expensive, ..I do not think that was hard to understand.

My points in my initial post refer to .."reasons" IMO why players all of a sudden has started to feel that a subscription fee for a AA title is out of the question..

"being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite "

Sorry,  I don't really understand what you mean by this ..at all.

 

Probably because you've chopped and garbled my original post and now it doesn't make sense.

 

Here it is again:

 

"Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?"

 

 

 

 Ohh really sorry If i messed something up..I only copied what you wrote to quote it..Your initial post is still there above..

Well..yes  there are players  ..alot actually, that sais they won't play certain games because they have a subscription fee.

IMO 50-60$ + 15$/month for entertainment is not much money, but It could be much money for a person that has limited funds, and when more than half the MMO's on the market has started to become FTP it feels less and less reasonable for said individual to pay for entertainment that usually is free .

I gave several reasons in my initial post why It may be like this. , when did we actually start to get cheap with an already cheap hobby ?