Here are some issues that points to certain aspects of todays markets.

1 The  to YOUNG crowd ..to get a monthly subscription fee payd by their parents. We have a massive increase in gamers over the years, most are young and without any income .

This in itself generates hate not only towards said parents , but unfortunatly it creates hate towards developers aswell. If I cant play this game, I will hate it and spread ill rumours about it.

2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.

3 . The current BETA FREE LOADERS and cheapscates. More and more players DEMAND to play a game for a few weeks before launch, othervise they claim to NOT be playing at all.

What happens in many cases is that before the beta is over many has had their fun in the game, so why even bother paying ..Half the game is even spoiled, wich makes it even harder for said person to really commit to the game..

Sure, having a good beta may even draw in some customers, but the people with money do not run around and play betas..Not in the bigger scope of things atleast. This is ofcourse my opinion, I may be wrong in this, but I think the majority of the beta players are only there to play for free and then set  the game as "played"

4. The PIRATE and torrent market, this one affects the MMO market aswell , even thou we do not think so..It creates a general free to play mentality in itself.

Software should be free, why am I suppose to be paying for an MMO when I can play Skyrim absolutly free.

Hopefully the market changes eventually, but I'm starting to wonder..really.

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

Here are some issues that points to certain aspects of todays markets.

1 The  to YOUNG crowd ..to get a monthly subscription fee payd by their parents. We have a massive increase in gamers over the years, most are young and without any income .

This in itself generates hate not only towards said parents , but unfortunatly it creates hate towards developers aswell. If I cant play this game, I will hate it and spread ill rumours about it.

2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.

3 . The current BETA FREE LOADERS and cheapscates. More and more players DEMAND to play a game for a few weeks before launch, othervise they claim to NOT be playing at all.

What happens in many cases is that before the beta is over many has had their fun in the game, so why even bother paying ..Half the game is even spoiled, wich makes it even harder for said person to really commit to the game..

Sure may add that having a good beta may even draw in some customers, but the people with money do not run around and play betas..Not in the bigger scope of things atleast.

4. The PIRATE and torrent market, this one affects the MMO market aswell , even thou we do not think so..It creates a general free to play mentality in itself.

Software should be free, why am I suppose to be paying for an MMO when I can play Skyrim absolutly free.

 

Hopefully the market changes eventually, but I'm starting to wonder..really.

 

 

Why should there be a monthly sub for a game? Explain other than complaining that people don't like to pay it.

It is not the gamers that need to change it is the gaming companies. Sticking with the same old tired game design does not help sell games - TOR found that out. Gaming companies need to innovate or die.

GW2 shows that companies can innovate if they want to. They just need to get off there lazy butts and do it. Once that happens maybe then you will see a different type of gamer.

Originally posted by HeroEvermore
I love your enthusiasm. Sadly TSW is a moneysink for Funcom now. Thankfully they have some decent investors and shouldn't bite the bucket from it. AoC probably making money still. I mean 200k total units sold in 2 months. Ouch. How many still even subbed. Usually 60% of mmorpg gamers don't make it to the 3rd month of a game. I wish your game the best of luck though and I am only commenting in astonishment that only 200k units sold. Considering how hyped it was on here.

TSW is cash flow positive for Funcom.  That's the opposite of a money sink.

Yeah the massive layoffs at Funcom was a good sign of that AMI? :P Facts are facts. Saying TSW is making profit is false and false.

Quoted from Funcom:

“Funcom is currently implementing several cost-adjustment initiatives due to the expected lower initial revenues from The Secret World to secure future positive cash flows.”

Funcom confirms that it has “initiated a process to reduce operational costs,” including “several initiatives such as layoffs and temporary layoffs of some employees in Montreal, Durham, Oslo and Beijing" Layoffs that will affect "around half of the company's personnel."

Aka: Were hoping to start making money soon. Not we are making money now.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

Here are some issues that points to certain aspects of todays markets.

1 The  to YOUNG crowd ..to get a monthly subscription fee payd by their parents. We have a massive increase in gamers over the years, most are young and without any income .

This in itself generates hate not only towards said parents , but unfortunatly it creates hate towards developers aswell. If I cant play this game, I will hate it and spread ill rumours about it.

2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.

3 . The current BETA FREE LOADERS and cheapscates. More and more players DEMAND to play a game for a few weeks before launch, othervise they claim to NOT be playing at all.

What happens in many cases is that before the beta is over many has had their fun in the game, so why even bother paying ..Half the game is even spoiled, wich makes it even harder for said person to really commit to the game..

Sure may add that having a good beta may even draw in some customers, but the people with money do not run around and play betas..Not in the bigger scope of things atleast.

4. The PIRATE and torrent market, this one affects the MMO market aswell , even thou we do not think so..It creates a general free to play mentality in itself.

Software should be free, why am I suppose to be paying for an MMO when I can play Skyrim absolutly free.

 

Hopefully the market changes eventually, but I'm starting to wonder..really.

 

 

Why should there be a monthly sub for a game? Explain other than complaining that people don't like to pay it.

 

It is not the gamers that need to change it is the gaming companies. Sticking with the same old tired game design does not help sell games - TOR found that out. Gaming companies need to innovate or die.

 

GW2 shows that companies can innovate if they want to. They just need to get off there lazy butts and do it. Once that happens maybe then you will see a different type of gamer.

 If you read my post I think I more than well explained why people are cheap..If you think you precious GW2 devs doesn't want your money ..Well think again..They will charge you..and in the end it will be more/less the same as a standard MMO..

---

Originally posted by ChicagoCub
I actually agree with this.  Most people thought the box price + cash shop + sub fee was over the top.  One of the benefits though is a much more mature community.

---

I don't have a problem with a box and sub plan. Most of the AAA titles are on that plan.

I never considered WoW's purchasable features a "cash chop" when they rolled out years ago. And today I rarely use them. I don't really understand what the fuss is about with regard to the economic model for these games, but I'm guessing it's related to the general state of the economy and change in the wind.

I got a bit of a diffrent view. Its kind of 2 for 1 offer)))).

1. Its not about gamers be cheap. Its about gamers be less - gamery.

Gamers nowdays doesnt want to follow the rules of the game. They want games to obbey their rules (have "fun" they call it)

Gw2 - is good example. Its a nightmere for a Dev to create a ballance between range and melea, tank and heal. Easy sollution is to give everyone everything. For a gamer who actuly wants to PLAY the game its kind of confusing, make no sence. For gamer who just play -all narrows down for estetics of skill animation. Cant wait for the end of honey moon period. How  many threads will be "Class X is too OP. NERF NERF NERF". Look what happend to SWTOR.  

        2. Game DEvs treat player like filth. NO CARE. NO RESPECT. They dont care if game will succede or fail. They got their money back from box sales plus subs or nice "estetic" cash shop (will keep peps playeing for 2-3 month) . Off we go to the next title. Rince and repeat.

SAD(((( 

Originally posted by negativf4kk

I got a bit of a diffrent view. Its kind of 2 for 1 offer)))).

1. Its not about gamers be cheap. Its about gamers be less - gamery.

Gamers nowdays doesnt want to follow the rules of the game. They want games to obbey their rules (have "fun" they call it)

Gw2 - is good example. Its a nightmere for a Dev to create a ballance between range and melea, tank and heal. Easy sollution is to give everyone everything. For a gamer who actuly wants to PLAY the game its kind of confusing, make no sence. For gamer who just play -all narrows down for estetics of skill animation. Cant wait for the end of honey moon period. How  many threads will be "Class X is too OP. NERF NERF NERF". Look what happend to SWTOR.  

        2. Game DEvs treat player like filth. NO CARE. NO RESPECT. They dont care if game will succede or fail. They got their money back from box sales plus subs or nice "estetic" cash shop (will keep peps playeing for 2-3 month) . Off we go to the next title. Rince and repeat.

SAD(((( 

1.  You are  on to something here..It's part of the problem. Games nowadays sadly isn't even close to a "game" anymore. Just look at all the cash grabbing things they like to call games on facebook etc,

2 .Don't know about that last part ..If they wan't money they will have to treat you with respect othervise they won't get far.

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

Actually stopped reading after that. Throwing cheap shots at competition and that high-horse route gets you absolutely nowhere. I'm guessing one of those "kiddie" games is WoW, even though it has some of the hardest raiding in the genre.

FC won't just magically pickup all those superbly mature folks by releasing a game with less content than MMO's had ~ten years ago. They will however, pickup some truly diehard fans, only because of their theme.

Which is why it's a niche game.

Originally posted by Rawiz

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

Actually stopped reading after that. Throwing cheap shots at competition and that high-horse route gets you absolutely nowhere. I'm guessing one of those "kiddie" games is WoW, even though it has some of the hardest raiding in the genre.

FC won't just magically pickup all those superbly mature folks by releasing a game with less content than MMO's had ~ten years ago. They will however, pickup some truly diehard fans, only because of their theme.

Which is why it's a niche game.

 Hmm..I don't know about hardest raiding in the genre since I don't play WoW ...But my guess is that just a small fraction of it's population plays those super hard raids you are talking about..

Yes..WoW ..is still a "kiddie" game..But I was refering to our newest kiddie game on the market :)

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by Rawiz

Originally posted by thark
 think the gamers of today are  cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games

Actually stopped reading after that. Throwing cheap shots at competition and that high-horse route gets you absolutely nowhere. I'm guessing one of those "kiddie" games is WoW, even though it has some of the hardest raiding in the genre.

FC won't just magically pickup all those superbly mature folks by releasing a game with less content than MMO's had ~ten years ago. They will however, pickup some truly diehard fans, only because of their theme.

Which is why it's a niche game.

 Hmm..I don't know about hardest raiding in the genre since I don't play WoW ...But my guess is that just a small fraction of it's population plays those super hard raids you are talking about..

Yes..WoW ..is still a "kiddie" game..But I was refering to our newest kiddie game on the market :)

So basically you're saying you know nothing. You don't even raid, you say it's a "kiddie" game because it has 50x more players than your super awesome "mature" game has.

Too bad your "mature" game is getting raped by people who actually value their money.

Also simple fact is, whatever you may think of other games, it doesn't make them "kiddie" games, it makes them obviously popular, because that's what you actually hate. You'd welcome every single "kiddie" with open arms, if they played TSW. Playing those games means there's less profit for your super "mature" game, with ~10 year old design choices and amount of content. That's why you try take that elder-route, you can't handle the fact that even older players do not enjoy TSW.

Sadly for you, many of those "mature" people wouldn't even play another Funcom game and they might already be playing GW2 or MOP-pre patch. Also, simple fact is, TSW doesn't require brains either, it's just another theme park and it is so content-lite, that I'm surprised they even managed to SELL 200k (not subs).

TSW does indeed cater to a more mature crowd (Average player age in TSW is 35), and yes it has a learning curve. The community itself has a more mature feeling to it then WoW ever did, been a long time since I have seen such a community develope. The trouble is, when game company's make something that has a level of difficulty or sandbox, like the old school mmos, they would be called too grindy by the new breed of gamers.

TSW has as much content as any other mmo that has ever launched, however there are many gamers who are just looking for the free ride. As a long time beta tester, I take that role seriously, I'm not there to see if I want to buy the game or not, I'm there to assist with bug squishing and give feedback. I find those that are just there to window shopping, should not be there.

WoW has changed the genre to almost the point of no return from the sandbox model of MMO's, RPG is supposed to challenge your intellect,  tell a good tale, and left you feeling a strong sense of accomplishment, MMOs used to be made with this design.  TSW may be the last of the true RPG MMOs, I hope not, but if a MMORPG offers no challenge and a poor story, then the RPG model is lost, and it becomes more of a FPS MMO, or Adventure MMO.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Ironically you refer to gw2 as for the kids.

But... with pvp
Funcom bottled it and changed to a wow like poopsocking to win format
Whereas gw2 has far more appeal to oldschool pvpers

You missed my point, RPG is a PvE genre, a game like WoW balanced it's classes on based on PvP and it's more of a MMOFPS, then MMORPG. PvP for PvEers is how it should be. Something to do on the side of, not dominate class balance to the point of being a detriment to PvE.