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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Good...until combat. Dumbed down so much.

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144 posts found
  Bijou

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/01/12
Posts: 140

8/28/12 5:24:59 AM#121


Originally posted by TheScavenger
Anyone else find they really miss the stamina/mana bar? At least that would add strategy, instead of hitting the one key repeatedly.

I'm actually glad they removed it. I don't have to worry about mana anymore and no potion spamming. More time for action. I think it's awesome!

  Kniknax

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/01/05
Posts: 559

8/28/12 5:42:01 AM#122

When I first started GW2 I thought "So, 1 is autoattack and you get 5 skills... this is more dumbed down than anything!"

Now, at level 11, with my Engineer, I have 5 skills for my dual pistols (two single attacks, a slow and two AOE attacks), the choice of 3 heals (a strong single potion, a lower AOE turret or.. a backpack full of bandages and potions which swap my 5 weapon skills and allow me to run around dropping potions and heals on the floor for people).

Then I have a choice of 10 different utility skills of which I can use 3 at once currently. I have a flamethrower (which replaces my 5 weapon skills with flame based attacks), a grenade belt (which replaces my 5 weapon skills with different grenades to throw) and a spell that dazes the target and relects all the damage done to me back to my opponent. I can use these are any point in the fight.

I still have 10 more skills to unlock, plus a load of "elite skills" plus two more skill slots on my bar.

So, in a general battle, I can have 15 weapons skills and 5 heals, plus an additional 3 attacks or heals in my F1-3 bar (which are secondary versions of some of my utility skills).

In a few levels time I unlock my secondary weapon slot, so I can swap mid battle and have yet another 5 skills appear.

To me (and I know Im not the best MMO'er) this is quite alot of stuff to do whilst having a quick battle... especially at level 11.

"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright

  Kuinn

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 1979

8/28/12 5:42:40 AM#123
Originally posted by TheScavenger

yeah, every MMO I can tell before level 10 if I like combat or not. WoW gave me tons of stuff before level 10, and TONS of stuff at level 10. Same with SWTOR and a lot of other MMOs.

 

It isn't the worst combat in a MMO though, it is just really dumbed down. No mana or stamina...the staple of all RPGs is missing. Can't get more dumbed down than that. Even DCU, they made it where it regenned fast...but you still had to manage it.

 

This is a joke right? I know I'm getting trolled but I want to answer since there's a chance that someone buy this crap.

 

You have 13 (a bit depending on a prof) abilities at lvl10 in GW2. None of the examples you gave has more (not to mention they have tons of dead weight abilities).

 

And the main point of you, dumbed down combat, you do realize that you are saying that games like WoW where you literally stand still hitting 1-3 buttons is more complex game because of a mana bar? I'm really sorry to say but you are missing something in between your ears. You simply die in GW2 if you stand still after noob zone. You have to dodge, cripple, stun, etc while being highly mobile unless with certain specs of certain classes.

  Rednecksith

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1272

Bite my fiery metal ass!

8/28/12 5:58:02 AM#124

Only thing that's currently pissing me off about the combat is the damned mobs resetting if you kite them too far or for too long. When much of the combat is about CC / kiting / dodging, that should not be happening. Period. I've had way too many veteran mobs reset when I'm about to win, which is incredibly frustrating. And I only just hit level 12...

Mob density is also becoming problematic. As an engineer, kiting is my bread and butter, and in some areas it's nigh impossible because there are so many mobs around. It was kind of fun at first, but when you're just trying to explore or get from point A to point B, it becomes an exercise in frustration. And please spare me the 'be aware of your surroundings' spiel. Much of the time multi-aggro (at least so far) comes from respawns, which BTW happen far too quickly on my server.

So no, it's not dumbed down. But it is getting tedious very quickly, at least for me.

  Macecard

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/10
Posts: 146

8/28/12 5:58:48 AM#125

WHAT!? Nothing in this entire thread makes any sense.

1: Why exactly does the lack of mana/stamina = dumb down combat? thats never explained by anyone here.

2: Comapling that a game is button mashing when thy are yet to invent a new type of input device that differs greatly to the keyboard is amazingly short sighted.

3: GW2 is hard if you don't dodge and use your skills well. I personally have to stun any mob that is higher level than me twice during a 1v1 to not be close to death at the end. during 1v? I have to swtich to a large weapon that hits 3 targets in front of me with some skills. I am a thief and we have intiatiive which goes up over time and is used by most of my waepon skills, I cannot button bash without running out of initiative and If there are more mobs about I may need that to stay alive should another mob join the fight.

From what I can see Elemantalists are stop from spamming by cooldowns. I have no xperience of other classes but I manage they all have some mechanic that stops them from becoming button spamming wow toons.

Just for anyone with a below average IQ - 1 or autoattack doesn;t have to hit again after the first time, unless your ranged and your target moved out of range.

I am so tired of people taking positive of a game like active combat and then calling shinnaigans when 1 or more parts of it are shared with another game. 

If a developer realsed an MMO today that was 99% different from every other mmo every made, someone on this forum will complain that that 1% was stolen and stops the game from being innovative,

However if it was 100% different, the same people would then post that the game makes no sense, has a steep learning curve, uses a control they can't figure out (yeh its not a keyboard to keep those "button mashing" people from exploding at the ears for another keyboard controled game.

This is endless and just shows why mmo have a hard time doing well. the mmo market is full of consumers who only think they know what they want because of what they have read on forums and articles, think for yourselves, 

I made no judgement of swtor or gw2 from what I read on this forum (be it HUGE negative or HUGELY positve). After playing swtor i decided it sucked, I never went on here to explain to everything that it sucked, I just moved on, and I thoguht id like gw2 from the betas but I never completly went over to the fanboi side and saved my judgement for release.

It seems to me everyone has made this mind up years before gameplay for a game even exists, this goes for fanbois, haters and ppl in the middle. the average mmo consumer needs to get some perspective and realise we are talking about games and how much you personally like or dislike them is your own problem and really doesn't need to be discussed because the average mmo consumer clearly can't see past there own predigests's.

If you continue to make sweeping statements like you know what everyone everywhere thinks about a certain topic then I am going to shout at you.
It easy to type 'I think this is the worst game ever'
Rather than the 'This is the worst game ever'

  muthax

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/15/05
Posts: 582

8/28/12 6:10:10 AM#126
Originally posted by Angier2758

Are you guys really that inept or are you baiting us?

 

Anyone saying this is just mashing buttons is probabaly "special".

 

 

This. I think wowtards will try playing this like they do with wow and wowclones, missing out how combat really is supposed to work. There are no skill rotations. Or button mashing. OP, what you smoking??

  ShimpoGenmu

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/12
Posts: 75

8/28/12 6:12:00 AM#127
Originally posted by TheScavenger

Combat feels more dumbed down than it was in DCU.

 

Why? It isn't because you aren't standing still and using strategic key pressing (which is mentally challenging, and why I like it so much)...but...

 

Even DCU (DC Universe) had mana and stamina. In GW2...what happened to the stamina and mana bar? You press the one key over and over and over...there is no strategy. It doesn't matter what weapon(s) I have equipped, I just kill everything by pressing one key. On top of that, unlike other MMOs (like DCU) where this is possible...I don't even have to worry about stamina or mana. Which EVERY MMO has. This isn't even a real MMO. There is just no strategy to the combat. It has been dumbed down so much.

 

Anyone else find they really miss the stamina/mana bar? At least that would add strategy, instead of hitting the one key repeatedly.

comparing that trash with gw2 is sad...

  lilHeala

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/11
Posts: 528

8/28/12 6:16:10 AM#128

Buttonmashers like you are the shitloads of people I rez'd in these 3 days. I saw more dead players and provided more rezzes in the open world in these few days than on my healers in other mmo's together over 10+ years.

If you think you can get away with that through the entire game and in situations like fighting a champion mob with no other players around, then I'd like to see that. Meet me in PvP for a 1v1, I'm terribad in pvp but I bet I can easily repeatedly kill you by actually using my skills right.

  tazarconan

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 1022

8/28/12 6:16:50 AM#129

I remember clearly during beta i asked in a thread that if there is no stamina bar everyone will dodge like frieking frogs around which is ridiculous and no indication whatsoever of tactical factor. Then couple of guys that played beta said that stamina bar lowers alot if u dodge once or twice.

Op here suggests that anet removed that stamina bar entirely from the game?

  wowfan1996

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/09
Posts: 741

8/28/12 6:21:50 AM#130
Originally posted by tazarconan
Op here suggests that anet removed that stamina bar entirely from the game?

The OP meant a generic resource bar like mana/rage/energy in WoW. If he did some research or played a thief, for example, he'd know that some classes in GW2 have it.

MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  vmoped

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 1722

8/28/12 6:34:52 AM#131

I thing I did not see mentioned is the skill required to combat enemies while being aware of environmental concerns.   This is what I find the most fun and challenging.  Killing a mob is easy, trying to avoid traps, falls, and other mobs is what is more difficult imo.  I have never really been concerned about environments in mmos since DDO.  I understand your criticisms of the game OP, and they are valid. 

Cheers!

MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4428

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

8/28/12 7:43:42 AM#132

Most other games, Combat is masted pretty quick.
This one is still taking time. I am still trying to train my reflexes to know when to properly judge and time dodge. It's not as easy as it looks. Also there are many abilities you have to unlock through the use of different weapons. Once you unlock the abilities, you have to get comfortable with them and what they do. You then have to get used to hot swapping to get to them. You have size up in advance what abilities you might be using most and set up you hot swap queue accordingly. At the moment, I am limited to 1 swap set.


When I watched my 1st video of GW2, I thought the same thing. "Oh look, GW2 combat....
1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 3
"OH SHIT!"
111111111111111111111111
"Oh thank god!"
1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 3
But in reality it's not so simple.


I've been playing MMOs for years. I'm not the most skilled player, but I'm not stupid either. As an experienced gamer, I can tell you, It's not that easy and I haven't fully figured this one out yet.

I feel that the state of the genre is such that a total and complete failure is needed so it can be reborn anew.
I'm actually hoping this new generation of 8 button MMOs will make that happen.

  Blindchance

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/09
Posts: 1079

8/28/12 8:52:42 AM#133
Originally posted by TheScavenger
Originally posted by GamerUntouch

10?!

 

Come on OP.

Get deep into the game, 30+, then you'll realize why people like it.

yeah, every MMO I can tell before level 10 if I like combat or not. WoW gave me tons of stuff before level 10, and TONS of stuff at level 10. Same with SWTOR and a lot of other MMOs.

 

It isn't the worst combat in a MMO though, it is just really dumbed down. No mana or stamina...the staple of all RPGs is missing. Can't get more dumbed down than that. Even DCU, they made it where it regenned fast...but you still had to manage it.

You don't need mana or stamina if your skills have cooldowns. Some classes have adrenaline / initiative system, there is stamina/endurance which allows you to dodge. Your argument that WoW gave you more options in combat is rather laughable. Mana/stamina is simply hidden in the cooldowns in GW2. I don't remember actively dodging attacks ( while managing my endurance to not waste it for low damage attacks etc ), blocking attacks in WoW.


 

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

8/28/12 9:13:56 AM#134

I got my character to 36, 

Not only do I need to utilize the switch weapon to take down Veterans, I also have to be tricky to win skill challenges. 

Even during Champion fights, when it was just 2 people against that champion, I was never at a downstate. 

Unfotunately it did take me up to level 20 to really learn the weapon skills for my character and which weapons I like and the combinations that they offer to kill something quick. 

I have experimented with different weapon combinations, die a couple times. So from that experience I can tell you that the Combat is more indepth than other MMO's. 

And before each encounter you actually think before you act, no more mindless killings. 

Its true that you only start to understand your character after level 11 because thats when you finally get to utilize all the skills given to your character. 

Borrow the game from a friend, try it and you will be addicted to it. 

That feeling of reading the opponent and getting a successful Dodge is truly amazing.

 

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7264

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

8/28/12 9:38:46 AM#135
Originally posted by Lucioon

I got my character to 36, 

Not only do I need to utilize the switch weapon to take down Veterans, I also have to be tricky to win skill challenges. 

Even during Champion fights, when it was just 2 people against that champion, I was never at a downstate. 

Unfotunately it did take me up to level 20 to really learn the weapon skills for my character and which weapons I like and the combinations that they offer to kill something quick. 

I have experimented with different weapon combinations, die a couple times. So from that experience I can tell you that the Combat is more indepth than other MMO's. 

And before each encounter you actually think before you act, no more mindless killings. 

Its true that you only start to understand your character after level 11 because thats when you finally get to utilize all the skills given to your character. 

Borrow the game from a friend, try it and you will be addicted to it. 

That feeling of reading the opponent and getting a successful Dodge is truly amazing.

 

 

The only thing I would say about the combat after level 30 is that,  for the most part,  after learning all of your weapon skills and getting most of your unlocked skills (at least the ones you want) you end up with a build that you really like.. and that doesn't change much.

 

I know which weapons I like for my character.. and I know pretty much what traits to spec into and how that will mesh with my weapons and playstyle.   It doesn't make the combat boring or easy... far from it... you always have to be on your toes for the most part,  but it does make the combat builds stale, seeing as how I'm level 37 right now and not even halfway to max level. (even if my in-game completion is at 35%).  So I pretty much have 40+ more levels of the same skills and playstyle.

 

I'm okay with that personally,  but it can get stale.  With my build I can solo group Champions (it just takes a very long time). I know in the future though I'll need more variety to keep going.

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  User Deleted
8/28/12 9:43:11 AM#136

When has strategy in combat ever matterd when pve is the entier map worths of people all zerging a pve boss event...or when has combat strategy matterd when your zerg vs zerg in pvp.

 

Just stand there, find the "i win skill" and spam it and sit back and feel like you accomplished something...because lets be honest, if you had decided to log off and miss that world boss or pvp event...no one would even notice....so that feeling or worth, strategy and accomplishment must come from inside....your the only one whos going to notice how well you do in zerg pve/pvp.

  sfc1971

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 423

8/28/12 9:44:30 AM#137
Originally posted by TheScavenger

Combat feels more dumbed down than it was in DCU.

 

Why? It isn't because you aren't standing still and using strategic key pressing (which is mentally challenging, and why I like it so much)...but...

 

Even DCU (DC Universe) had mana and stamina. In GW2...what happened to the stamina and mana bar? You press the one key over and over and over...there is no strategy. It doesn't matter what weapon(s) I have equipped, I just kill everything by pressing one key. On top of that, unlike other MMOs (like DCU) where this is possible...I don't even have to worry about stamina or mana. Which EVERY MMO has. This isn't even a real MMO. There is just no strategy to the combat. It has been dumbed down so much.

 

Anyone else find they really miss the stamina/mana bar? At least that would add strategy, instead of hitting the one key repeatedly.

If you are pressing the one key over and over, then obviously the game has not been dumbed down enough for you. You can enable auto-attack on it.

This at first sounds like easy mode but in fact, it frees people up. To move around, to look around. To see if maybe some other player is in trouble, some one needs rezzing or adds are about to hit the rear guard.

If you are just standing their pressing the 1 button over and over again, then you are just a mindless DPS and you will always be a mindless DPS.  Mind you, this game does encourage that. Just stand there at a boss pressing 1 button GOLD MEDAL.

Deal with ads, protect and buff the group and resurrect people? Bronze, you looser.

Then again, this is a korean game, what did you expect? Chess grand master challenge?

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

8/28/12 9:51:06 AM#138
Originally posted by redman875

When has strategy in combat ever matterd when pve is the entier map worths of people all zerging a pve boss event...or when has combat strategy matterd when your zerg vs zerg in pvp.

 

Just stand there, find the "i win skill" and spam it and sit back and feel like you accomplished something...because lets be honest, if you had decided to log off and miss that world boss or pvp event...no one would even notice....so that feeling or worth, strategy and accomplishment must come from inside....your the only one whos going to notice how well you do in zerg pve/pvp.

That is very true, it all depends on you the Gamer.

When I find a hole in the ground and see water, while it doesn't show it on the map, I jumped, only to be surrounded by mobs. That was fun, but it was only fun for me.

When I found that Veteran, and tested my skills for the first time and won without any support from passerbys I felt amazing. 

When I changed my weapons and Utilities to test out a new attack pattern and succeeded, I felt great. 

Its all about you the Gamer. 

And this game delivers. 

( there was a couple places that you can get to by just taking a leap of faith, either you die because the water is shallow, or you just found an alternative way of getting there, kinda fun when you realized that you could have just walked through the secret door down a stairway blocked by some leaves, but you still do the jump because it was just fun)

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7264

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

8/28/12 9:51:30 AM#139
Originally posted by redman875

When has strategy in combat ever matterd when pve is the entier map worths of people all zerging a pve boss event...or when has combat strategy matterd when your zerg vs zerg in pvp.

 

Just stand there, find the "i win skill" and spam it and sit back and feel like you accomplished something...because lets be honest, if you had decided to log off and miss that world boss or pvp event...no one would even notice....so that feeling or worth, strategy and accomplishment must come from inside....your the only one whos going to notice how well you do in zerg pve/pvp.

In many cases this is true... more in GW2 than in other games.  In other games,  people usually don't run in and start whacking away at mobs other people are already killing.. and stepping in to help if someone is about to die is an act of kindness.  Grouping actually means something.  You group with people who know how to play, and play well...  thats not the case in GW2. 

 

It doesn't matter that, in events, I am always up, helping others to stay alive, and never going down.. nobody realizes that.  All they care about it that they are smashing buttons until they fall on the ground, then expect someone -- anyone -- to stop what they're doing to pick them up so they can go die again.

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  Christooo

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 85

8/28/12 9:52:29 AM#140

Haha that makes me laugh! The amount of people I have rezzed during events, hearts, bosses definatly indicate the combat is hardly easy/button mashing, obviously you are not challenging yourself and going out of your way to attack veteran/champion bosses because they are tough.

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