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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Good...until combat. Dumbed down so much.

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144 posts found
  DaezAster

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 801

8/27/12 11:41:17 PM#21

I like that it's more action focused some don't and that's cool but it is what it is. If your only using one attack then your gimping yourself and missing all the fun of mixing it up. With the hammer I have some vicious attacks but if I only used the 1 key I wouldn't know that. I am glad to finally see more action in my combat  with more recent games and less of the dice roll style of old. Even if you could get away with just using the 1 button (which won't work outside the zerg or group to pick up your slack) what fun is that.

I challenge you to stand there spamming the 1 key alone and see how that goes..... ;)

  atticusbc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/22/07
Posts: 1076

I hated hipsters before hating hipsters was cool.

8/27/12 11:41:18 PM#22
Originally posted by GamerUntouch

Not 11, it starts going at around 15 - 20.

You eventually NEED to learn your weapons, you probably don't know how they work too well and are just hitting buttons when they come off cooldown.

It isn't effective at all, but it'll work. Not in the higher level zones though.

11 is the doorway. 15/20 is your first steps through it. i'm really just going off of my own feelings of "this is alright" under level 11, then being "oh wow this is going to get fantastic" after.

  atticusbc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/22/07
Posts: 1076

I hated hipsters before hating hipsters was cool.

8/27/12 11:42:15 PM#23
Originally posted by Varking

Here is the good news. The game is F2P so you can come back whenever you like.

Here is the bad news. The game just gets going at level 53. Make sure you get to level 53 before you judge the game. Nobody enjoys the first 52 levels. Comon man.

i can't tell if you're being silly or if something interesting actually happens at 53....

  User Deleted
8/27/12 11:43:57 PM#24
Originally posted by DaezAster

I like that it's more action focused some don't and that's cool but it is what it is. If your only using one attack then your gimping yourself and missing all the fun of mixing it up. With the hammer I have some vicious attacks but if I only used the 1 key I wouldn't know that. I am glad to finally see more action in my combat  with more recent games and less of the dice roll style of old. Even if you could get away with just using the 1 button (which won't work outside the zerg or group to pick up your slack) what fun is that.

I challenge you to stand there spamming the 1 key alone and see how that goes..... ;)

I don't think he literally means spamming one button, more like mindlessly pressing the skill buttons without no thought of what you are doing. I think that would be more accurate.

  teakbois

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/06
Posts: 2190

8/27/12 11:47:16 PM#25
Originally posted by TheScavenger
Originally posted by heartless
OP, what is the highest level character you have?

I got to level 10, before realizing I didn't like the combat at all. Usually I know if I like combat or the game within 10 levels of a MMO.

 

Like in WoW, I loved the combat right off the bat. Got pets right in the beginning as a hunter and warlock. Paladin smashed everything in its path right at level 1. Warrior rushed enemiees. And it only became better when there was so many abilities just at level 10. Like as a warrior at level 10, I had so many abilities to choose from.

 

Or a better example (because its newer). At level 1 as a Jedi Consular in SWTOR...I had so many amazing abilities (comparitevly), and just after the first area...I had so much strategy in the combat. There wasn't just pressing one key over and over.

 

Not to say GW2 is bad and I don't like it. Just combat isn't its strong suit. Guild Wars (the first one) was a lot better, even if it wasn't filled with many hotbars of abilities.

By level 10 you can get one of each weapon type, plus then you unlock your second ability slot.  You have 50+ abilities to choose from by level 10 in GW2.

 

  atticusbc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/22/07
Posts: 1076

I hated hipsters before hating hipsters was cool.

8/27/12 11:47:25 PM#26
oh and try the thief, op. they don't have cool downs, but their skills use up a third resource (initiative).
  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4263

8/27/12 11:47:57 PM#27

If you truly did buy the game and playing it, take the time to see what each button does with each type of weapon. You paid for the game, you should take a few minutes to try and understand it.  The combat system is pretty much on par with Tera, and that was or is one of it's key features.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

8/27/12 11:48:58 PM#28
Originally posted by TheScavenger
Originally posted by heartless
OP, what is the highest level character you have?

I got to level 10, before realizing I didn't like the combat at all. Usually I know if I like combat or the game within 10 levels of a MMO.

 

Like in WoW, I loved the combat right off the bat. Got pets right in the beginning as a hunter and warlock. Paladin smashed everything in its path right at level 1. Warrior rushed enemiees. And it only became better when there was so many abilities just at level 10. Like as a warrior at level 10, I had so many abilities to choose from.

 

Or a better example (because its newer). At level 1 as a Jedi Consular in SWTOR...I had so many amazing abilities (comparitevly), and just after the first area...I had so much strategy in the combat. There wasn't just pressing one key over and over.

 

Not to say GW2 is bad and I don't like it. Just combat isn't its strong suit. Guild Wars (the first one) was a lot better, even if it wasn't filled with many hotbars of abilities.

In other words you're basing your opinion on combat during the tutorial phase.

  Castillle

Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 2682

8/27/12 11:54:22 PM#29

I dont really get how you guys feel that combat is dumbed down so much o.O  On all my chars, I had to actively dodge, interrupt, cc, kite, weave back and forth, and what not until stuff died.  And my highest level is a level 11 char o.O 

Are you guys purposely killing stuff a few levels lower than you or something?

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  hikaru77

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 1025

8/27/12 11:56:14 PM#30
Originally posted by vardar
Totally agree, its just 1 big button mashing, thats it, dunno how people go crazy and say its totally awsome? not quiet sure if its there first MMO or second, but it takes alot of skill to run around and button mash?? heh, i guess it does, lol,  my damn wrists hurt so much from pounding on my keyboard, and its very repititious, mashing the same buttons over and over and over......real fun...

I have been playing gw2 for like 3 days, mostly Spvp and WvWvW, today i played swtor, and it was hard to play, i mean after 3 days pressing 1 button then wait for CD, wait for CD and wait for CD, playing with my Gunslinger was something hard, i was slow pressing skills, or moving around with the mouse and using skills at the same time, dont know how to explain it, but is like GW2 for too much time is a good way to gimp urselft in the MMO world. 

  SoulOfRaziel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 411

8/27/12 11:56:15 PM#31
Originally posted by TheScavenger

Combat feels more dumbed down than it was in DCU.

 

Why? It isn't because you aren't standing still and using strategic key pressing (which is mentally challenging, and why I like it so much)...but...

 

Even DCU (DC Universe) had mana and stamina. In GW2...what happened to the stamina and mana bar? You press the one key over and over and over...there is no strategy. It doesn't matter what weapon(s) I have equipped, I just kill everything by pressing one key. On top of that, unlike other MMOs (like DCU) where this is possible...I don't even have to worry about stamina or mana. Which EVERY MMO has. This isn't even a real MMO. There is just no strategy to the combat. It has been dumbed down so much.

 

Anyone else find they really miss the stamina/mana bar? At least that would add strategy, instead of hitting the one key repeatedly.

thats called innovation.

not everyone like the same thing.... btw i just dont remember the last time i had so much fun in an mmorpg

  DaezAster

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 801

8/27/12 11:59:39 PM#32
Originally posted by Mephster
Originally posted by DaezAster

I like that it's more action focused some don't and that's cool but it is what it is. If your only using one attack then your gimping yourself and missing all the fun of mixing it up. With the hammer I have some vicious attacks but if I only used the 1 key I wouldn't know that. I am glad to finally see more action in my combat  with more recent games and less of the dice roll style of old. Even if you could get away with just using the 1 button (which won't work outside the zerg or group to pick up your slack) what fun is that.

I challenge you to stand there spamming the 1 key alone and see how that goes..... ;)

I don't think he literally means spamming one button, more like mindlessly pressing the skill buttons without no thought of what you are doing. I think that would be more accurate.

Which will have you leaping out of range and or behind enemies maybe even into the center of a mob to get wailed on. Combat just isn't as dumbed down as some make it out to be. Now I'm not an old school mmo player but am on old school gamer, the first mmo I played was aion and I could play that game with one hand, dodging meant nothing as you would still get hit, hitting meant nothing as enemies would get evade even though my blade went right through them. That is the kind of stuff I don't like, the dice roll style combat. Now I'm a street fighter head and could beat most of the game just throwing fire balls but that is incredibly boring, and would be a self imposed punishment imo. If I judge the combat in street fighter based off that would you say I had a proper understanding of the system, or were using it to it's fullest potential?

One of the reasons even though I never played it or plan to I give tera props is that it put an emphassis on action combat "not saying it was the first or anything" but it shined a light on it. Another game I'm keeping an eye on is blad and soul for the same reason. A more fighting game style combat appeals to me though not everyone likes there rpg action based. It's all good at the end of the day though ;) ......

  Purutzil

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2916

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

8/28/12 12:00:06 AM#33

Someone who agrees that combat is dumbed down like me! Yay! Not nessisarily 100% about your points of stamina or mana but still I do really think combat really isn't all that 'skill based'. Its really simple and in case of most weapons/classes, you can master it pretty quickly. I think the problem is they were expecting dodge to be such a big deal they forgone more complexity. 

 

It doesn't need the components you mentioned, it just needs more thought applied to it.  Maybe ways to combo abilities better or something to just make it feel like I'm not just spamming buttons. The hard part is figuring out what skills to use. Once that is done, its pretty much a walk in the park with dodging. 

  cyress8

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/05
Posts: 866

BOOYAKA!

8/28/12 12:02:49 AM#34
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by vardar
Totally agree, its just 1 big button mashing, thats it, dunno how people go crazy and say its totally awsome? not quiet sure if its there first MMO or second, but it takes alot of skill to run around and button mash?? heh, i guess it does, lol,  my damn wrists hurt so much from pounding on my keyboard, and its very repititious, mashing the same buttons over and over and over......real fun...

I have been playing gw2 for like 3 days, mostly Spvp and WvWvW, today i played swtor, and it was hard to play, i mean after 3 days pressing 1 button then wait for CD, wait for CD and wait for CD, playing with my Gunslinger was something hard, i was slow pressing skills, or moving around with the mouse and using skills at the same time, dont know how to explain it, but is like GW2 for too much time is a good way to gimp urselft in the MMO world. 

Whats your ingame name hikaru?

BOOYAKA!

  Squal'Zell

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/04
Posts: 1809

"Next time i log in SWG ill probably see elves and druids"

8/28/12 12:06:25 AM#35
Originally posted by TheScavenger
Originally posted by heartless
OP, what is the highest level character you have?

I got to level 10, before realizing I didn't like the combat at all. Usually I know if I like combat or the game within 10 levels of a MMO.

did you play GW1? what about games that their tiers are not 1-10 11-20 21-30 etc... and are instead (like in GW2)

1-15 tutorial ( you didn't even finish it)

15-30

30+ etc... 

 

Like in WoW, I loved the combat right off the bat. Got pets right in the beginning as a hunter and warlock. got my pet before i finished character creation as a ranger Paladin smashed everything in its path right at level 1. GIMME GIMME GIMME MY EPEEN IS HUGE! I CAN KILL EVERYTHING AT LVL 1!!!  Warrior rushed enemiees. And it only became better when there was so many abilities just at level 10. well here its not lvl 10. it is actually lvl 15 where you unlock more stuff and at lvl 30 you unlock your elite slot Like as a warrior at level 10, I had so many abilities to choose from. i don't think you played the game because by lvl 10 you could have maxed all your class weapon skills making about 2 dozen skills to choose from, not to mention the utilities and the healer set. 

 

Or a better example (because its newer). At level 1 as a Jedi Consular in SWTOR...I had so many amazing abilities (comparitevly), and just after the first area...I had so much strategy in the combat. There wasn't just pressing one key over and over. (ctrl + mouse2) will put that smashing key into autoattack... oh wait that is your basic autoattack and then you need to know which skills to use at the right time. do i bleed, do i cripples? quickshot? barrage? now get a whole group and try to coordinate your attacks, there are strategies to use at higher levels. 

 

Not to say GW2 is bad and I don't like it. Just combat isn't its strong suit. Guild Wars (the first one) was a lot better, even if it wasn't filled with many hotbars of abilities. did you even play GW1? 1 hot bar of 8 (compared to GW2 1 hotbar of 10) in guildwars 1 there are 1319 skills you can have on 1 character. 

honestly i think you should go back and join a guild, reach lvl 30 and then come back to this thread. and if things have not changed only then will i agnolege that you gave it a sincere try and your opinion will have some credibility behind it.

as of now you sound like a kid that doesnt like tomatos because they are red and red is ugly. he hasnt tried it, but he doesnt like the color red therefore he wont like the tomato., taste the tomato then tell me you don't like it, only then will it have some basis for fact behind it.

besides what doyou have to lose. its not like you are paying a sub eh?

 


  User Deleted
8/28/12 12:06:45 AM#36

So tell me, how do you know which weapons to bring into each situation?  How do you know when to switch from offense to defense? Support?  Having a bazillion choices available doesn't mean you have a strategic plan to deal with various situations.  You need ranged - oops, you equipped the rifle which only has single target abilities and it's a whole freakin mob of wolves.  Should have brought the longbow with AOE goodness.

It's not dumbed down.  Not at all.

  Oberholzer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/25/06
Posts: 503

8/28/12 12:24:28 AM#37
Some people say things get going at level 11, some 15 - 20. I thought end game started at level 1???  Sorry I couldn't resist. I'm level 6 and having fun so far.
  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5414

8/28/12 12:41:52 AM#38

I don't think combat is dumbed down.

The way you engage in combat is different. All those same abilities you had in 15 action bars in WoW are still there, The difference is, they are tied to different weapons, so the strategy comes into play by knowing what ability to use and what weapon it's associated with. There is more to it that mashing 2 buttons. It's actually deeper than other MMOs.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 5031

8/28/12 12:53:13 AM#39
Originally posted by TheScavenger

Anyone else find they really miss the stamina/mana bar? At least that would add strategy, instead of hitting the one key repeatedly.

No, not really. Honestly, stamina / mana didn't add much depth to PvP combat at all. In fact most of the strategic pvp classes of MMOs before GW2 had mechanics that were modified away from stamina / mana. In most PvP fights mana wasn't a significant factor. The complexity of the mana system is whether or not you have enough going into a fight. That's it. Stamina, is generally a bit more resource management heavy, and does require a bit more strategy.

However, GW2 also has this (Adrenaline, Life force, Initiative, clones). It also has another kind of resource management (cooldowns). Combine that w/ the fact that most skills have multiple uses and you actually have a fairly complex combat system. It's not just as simple as 'If i cast this fireball, will I have enough mana to cast the next'.

For example, on my necro, I'm mostly specced for conditions. I have a skill (epidemic) that spreads all condition on a target to everyone in the area around him. This is great, and I try and use it as much as possible. However there's a downside. Using it puts a debuff on me (vulnerability) which causes me to take more dmg. So I have to make a choice. Do I risk bombing AoE damage, knowing that if something big hits me it could easily kill me? If I use it, do I waste my heal and consume the condition (knowing that I will not have a heal if I get hit)? Should I keep my heal and use a signet to transfer the conditions? (knowing that in doing so, I am no longer protecting my allies from conditions). That's multiple decisions just based off of the use of one particular skill. Now, I know that not every skill requires that much thought, but many do (if you want to play well). Throw in things like stuns / confusion (deals damage to you everytime you use a skill), and the choices get even more complicated.

Ignoring all this doesn't make the system any less complex.

  Meriik

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/03/11
Posts: 50

8/28/12 1:26:52 AM#40
Try asacalon catacombs where you need to use mass CC/physical barriors/boons/dodges to even hope to survive more than 5 sec agaisnt even the trash, and thats on story mode not on explorer mode.  Much harder than any dungeon i've done personally in any game i've played outside of WoW's raid content, and even that isnt the same skillset required.
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