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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why do People Hate OWPVP?

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  Corehaven

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

8/29/12 9:56:29 PM#141
Originally posted by Parasitenoir

Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater.  I just have a more general question.

 

Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc.  I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.

Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself.  Does it provide to much of a challenge.  Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.

 

I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .

 

what are peoples thoughts on this?

 

Because I dont find this scenario fun at all: 

 

I'm attacking a mob or two or three and Im down to half health and I get ganked in the back.  I return to area and fight the dope that killed me.   He dies.  I try to continue with what I was doing.  But he comes back and kills me.  I go back and kill him.  We do this back and forth for awhile. 

 

Eventually he calls in a friend or two.  And now Im being camped.  So I call out some friends and we all start fighting.  We kill some of them, they kill some of us and this goes on back and forth for about an hour or two.  Not counting the original hour or half an hour I fought the original ganker. 

 

During this time no one accomplished anything.  The entire endevour was the most pointless, futile thing in existence.  There was no real victory in any of it, as in anyone I killed just reappears so we can harrass each other only minutes later and do the whole stinking thing all over again.  FUN!  No...no its not.  I guess some people find that kind of crap fun but past the first fight I'm already bored to death. 

 

At least in structured PVP deaths will matter at times, and there's a point.  There's a way to win.  That's a game.  That's a purpose.  So I highly enjoy that stuff as opposed to open world PVP which is always one of the most pointless and time wasting experiences I've ever had in gaming.  

 

 

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

8/29/12 10:10:58 PM#142
Originally posted by Corehaven
Originally posted by Parasitenoir

Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater.  I just have a more general question.

 

Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc.  I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.

Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself.  Does it provide to much of a challenge.  Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.

 

I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .

 

what are peoples thoughts on this?

 

Because I dont find this scenario fun at all: 

 

I'm attacking a mob or two or three and Im down to half health and I get ganked in the back.  I return to area and fight the dope that killed me.   He dies.  I try to continue with what I was doing.  But he comes back and kills me.  I go back and kill him.  We do this back and forth for awhile. 

 

Eventually he calls in a friend or two.  And now Im being camped.  So I call out some friends and we all start fighting.  We kill some of them, they kill some of us and this goes on back and forth for about an hour or two.  Not counting the original hour or half an hour I fought the original ganker. 

 

During this time no one accomplished anything.  The entire endevour was the most pointless, futile thing in existence.  There was no real victory in any of it, as in anyone I killed just reappears so we can harrass each other only minutes later and do the whole stinking thing all over again.  FUN!  No...no its not.  I guess some people find that kind of crap fun but past the first fight I'm already bored to death. 

 

At least in structured PVP deaths will matter at times, and there's a point.  There's a way to win.  That's a game.  That's a purpose.  So I highly enjoy that stuff as opposed to open world PVP which is always one of the most pointless and time wasting experiences I've ever had in gaming.  

 

 

 

Taking so much mobs that your health went low is a risktaking you take. If you aren't willing to deal with the possible negative outcome of risky behaviour: don't engage in it.

 

As for the constant back-and-forth killing you describe: several properly designed Open PvP games solved that by either making deaths meaningful or some form of flagging system that makes the situation unfavorable for the initial aggressor.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5233

8/30/12 3:34:04 AM#143
There are no raids in GW2, this seems to be all they have as endgame. I asked before if there are any videos to show how good this sort of endgame is as posters were raving about it. Not seen any links so far...
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19541

8/30/12 10:32:15 AM#144
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Taking so much mobs that your health went low is a risktaking you take. If you aren't willing to deal with the possible negative outcome of risky behaviour: don't engage in it.

 

or you can engage in it in a game without OWPvP. I don't see a reason why i should be dealing with griefers when i am facing a pve challenge.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3689

8/30/12 2:05:27 PM#145
Originally posted by IG-88

I dont enjoy pvp in the first place, so OWPVP is out of the question.

The only pvp ive ever enjoyed was SWG´s massive saturday night space PVP, but that was totally different.

That's exactly it.  I don't PvP.  Ever.  Under any circumstances.  I don't care if other people want to beat each other over the head but I find no enjoyment in it whatsoever.  In OWPvP though, I can't opt out.  I can't tell the PvPers to take a flying leap.  I'm a target.

I refuse to be a target.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3689

8/30/12 2:16:28 PM#146
Originally posted by ZBergz
People only dislike bad implementations of open world pvp.  I do not believe you could find a consensus as to which game does it successfully.  I do believe that the majority of posters will agree that many games do it poorly.

I dislike all implementation of all PvP so you're wrong.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  punkrock2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/30/11
Posts: 74

8/30/12 5:51:31 PM#147
Most of the MMO gamers from WOW gen are cowards and have no idea what real PVP is, that is the honest truth. They have que times, wtf is que times doing in a MMO game, or a timer on PVP. Man DAOC is a older game but the PVP is ran 24/7 and it is also put into levels so no one gets ganked by higher levels.
  Gardavsshade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 617

8/30/12 6:01:45 PM#148
Originally posted by Scot
There are no raids in GW2, this seems to be all they have as endgame. I asked before if there are any videos to show how good this sort of endgame is as posters were raving about it. Not seen any links so far...

GW (1) was principally a PvP game... as evidenced by changes to classes that usually hurt the PvE side of all classes. Anet many times showed through actions that PvP was their master plan for GW.

It is not surprising to me that a game that is a sequal to GW in many ways, is at least in some ways a PvP game.

Now as to the OP's question... why do people hate OWPvP? I have no idea. Sounds great fun to me... sounds like DAoC. If so then I would surely enjoy it. I don't PvP anymore (too old really), but sounds like GW2 PvP might be like DAoC a little...

But I'm not everyone. Everyone is different. We all like a few things differently than others.

Some Players love PvP. Some Hate it. Some could take it or leave it, they don't care.

Normality.


Nothing to see here... just another MMO Ghost....

  blognorg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/25/11
Posts: 650

8/30/12 6:38:29 PM#149


Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by Parasitenoir Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater.  I just have a more general question.   Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc.  I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera. Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself.  Does it provide to much of a challenge.  Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.   I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .   what are peoples thoughts on this?
  Because I dont find this scenario fun at all:    I'm attacking a mob or two or three and Im down to half health and I get ganked in the back.  I return to area and fight the dope that killed me.   He dies.  I try to continue with what I was doing.  But he comes back and kills me.  I go back and kill him.  We do this back and forth for awhile.    Eventually he calls in a friend or two.  And now Im being camped.  So I call out some friends and we all start fighting.  We kill some of them, they kill some of us and this goes on back and forth for about an hour or two.  Not counting the original hour or half an hour I fought the original ganker.    During this time no one accomplished anything.  The entire endevour was the most pointless, futile thing in existence.  There was no real victory in any of it, as in anyone I killed just reappears so we can harrass each other only minutes later and do the whole stinking thing all over again.  FUN!  No...no its not.  I guess some people find that kind of crap fun but past the first fight I'm already bored to death.    At least in structured PVP deaths will matter at times, and there's a point.  There's a way to win.  That's a game.  That's a purpose.  So I highly enjoy that stuff as opposed to open world PVP which is always one of the most pointless and time wasting experiences I've ever had in gaming.      
 

That actually sounds like a lot more fun than questing to me. The problem is that most of the time, the person killing you is much higher level. If you were actually able to go back and kill your assassin, then that seems like fair fun, especially if you were bother able to get some other people in on it. Most of my experiences are just getting ganked by someone which I didn't stand a chance with, then I would just have to walk back to my body. And I think that's the problem with open world PvP in theme parks, it's just not really built into the gameplay, but it just feels kind of tacked on. If the game was constructed around it, and there was value to world PvP (and possibly ganking), then it would be much more fun.

  BattleFelon

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/23/06
Posts: 483

8/30/12 8:28:30 PM#150

I used to love open PVP back when I had just graduated from college and had plenty of time to play. I roled open PVP in SWTOR and hated it for three reasons:

 

1. Faction imbalance - on most servers empire outnumbered republic at least 3-1. Even if a few noble level 50 heroes briefly rallied to defend the lowbies from evil ganking sith, within about 15 minutes the entire zone would be overrun by Imperials. This was also a huge problem for me in Warhammer too.

2. I'm casualcore - I'm play about 15-20 hours/week, enough to stay current in structured PVP but not really enough to take on a total PVP badass mano y mano. I'm also a slower leveler and thus will be subjected to several months of griefng from those who hit max level in the first week.

3.  Cheap tactics by gankers - From my experience, OWPVP gankers seem to all follow the same tactics. They play the stealth class, always hit lowbies or wait until somebody is half-dead from fighting mobs before attacking. Then they melt away at the sign of any real challenge.

  Einherjar_LC

Tipster

Joined: 5/03/05
Posts: 1067

8/30/12 8:34:22 PM#151

Because people in games that have OWPvP for the most part act like douche bags, which is not a fun environment to most people.

 

I get enough of that daily in real life, the last thing I want is to deal with it during my recreational time.

 

Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!

  madazz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1303

8/30/12 8:40:20 PM#152
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I used to love open PVP back when I had just graduated from college and had plenty of time to play. I roled open PVP in SWTOR and hated it for three reasons:

 

1. Faction imbalance - on most servers empire outnumbered republic at least 3-1. Even if a few noble level 50 heroes briefly rallied to defend the lowbies from evil ganking sith, within about 15 minutes the entire zone would be overrun by Imperials. This was also a huge problem for me in Warhammer too.

2. I'm casualcore - I'm play about 15-20 hours/week, enough to stay current in structured PVP but not really enough to take on a total PVP badass mano y mano. I'm also a slower leveler and thus will be subjected to several months of griefng from those who hit max level in the first week.

3.  Cheap tactics by gankers - From my experience, OWPVP gankers seem to all follow the same tactics. They play the stealth class, always hit lowbies or wait until somebody is half-dead from fighting mobs before attacking. Then they melt away at the sign of any real challenge.

While SWTOR had open PvP you are missing the main reason it sucked. There was no objective. No gain. No reward. No penalties. It was just ass-hats running around killing for only the single reason of griefing. I personally didn't have any issues in that game with griefers (I usually killed them in their attempts), but, it was none the less boring.

This generation of MMO players hasn't had the opportunity to play a proper open world pvp game. Its all just tacked on. There was a time where you didn't need a second set of gear for PvP either. Its all stupid now! But, thats just my opinion.

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1689

8/30/12 8:43:14 PM#153

I don't like OWPVP because there is rarely any pvp happening. It's usually just ganking or zerging.

What's the point if it's me vs an entire group of people just one-shotting me?

What's the point if it's a higher level player getting kicks by killing me repeatedly?

 

For every one decent encounter, you experience dozens of pointless ones. I'd much rather queue up for a consensual pvp battleground. Ironically, I get to have way more 1v1 or 1v2 encounters in a battleground that I ever have in OWPVP. Not to mention group battles.

  Gardavsshade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 617

8/30/12 8:48:52 PM#154
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I used to love open PVP back when I had just graduated from college and had plenty of time to play. I roled open PVP in SWTOR and hated it for three reasons:

 

1. Faction imbalance - on most servers empire outnumbered republic at least 3-1. Even if a few noble level 50 heroes briefly rallied to defend the lowbies from evil ganking sith, within about 15 minutes the entire zone would be overrun by Imperials. This was also a huge problem for me in Warhammer too.

2. I'm casualcore - I'm play about 15-20 hours/week, enough to stay current in structured PVP but not really enough to take on a total PVP badass mano y mano. I'm also a slower leveler and thus will be subjected to several months of griefng from those who hit max level in the first week.

3.  Cheap tactics by gankers - From my experience, OWPVP gankers seem to all follow the same tactics. They play the stealth class, always hit lowbies or wait until somebody is half-dead from fighting mobs before attacking. Then they melt away at the sign of any real challenge.

While SWTOR had open PvP you are missing the main reason it sucked. There was no objective. No gain. No reward. No penalties. It was just ass-hats running around killing for only the single reason of griefing. I personally didn't have any issues in that game with griefers (I usually killed them in their attempts), but, it was none the less boring.

This generation of MMO players hasn't had the opportunity to play a proper open world pvp game. Its all just tacked on. There was a time where you didn't need a second set of gear for PvP either. Its all stupid now! But, thats just my opinion.

@madazz ... your reasons why SWTOR PvP sucked .... no objective, no gain, no reward... Yes these are valid reasons. So too are BattleFelons reasons for not liking SWTOR PvP. I have seen similar situations in other MMOs that the two of you discuss and it always sucked, for both your reasons. That's part of the problem with SWTOR PvP, there are so many problem areas it's hard for any Dev to know what to fix first to be honest.

SWTOR reeks like a Thanksgiving Turkey that got pulled out of the Oven two hours early and allowed to sit out on the counter. Undercooked, and not taken care of properly.


Nothing to see here... just another MMO Ghost....

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5233

9/01/12 3:32:13 AM#155

All the problems with PvP mentioned over the last few posts are genuine but they can be solved. You can have a good objective for PvP. You can level up players when they go into a PvP zone. You can make it a group effort, which makes it harder for gankers to find a lone victim.

We saw leveling up in PvP missions in SWTOR, they could have done that for those who entered the open PvP zone too. Realm objectives in DAOC show how you set up a good objective. All thse things have been done, but concentrating on graphics or in SWTOR's case cutscenes and voice overs, is the prime thrust of todays MMO's.

Graphics before gameplay rules the roost.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2767

9/01/12 3:58:59 AM#156
It's because of the lowlife griefers.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19541

9/01/12 11:14:55 AM#157
Originally posted by Scot

All the problems with PvP mentioned over the last few posts are genuine but they can be solved. You can have a good objective for PvP. You can level up players when they go into a PvP zone. You can make it a group effort, which makes it harder for gankers to find a lone victim.

We saw leveling up in PvP missions in SWTOR, they could have done that for those who entered the open PvP zone too. Realm objectives in DAOC show how you set up a good objective. All thse things have been done, but concentrating on graphics or in SWTOR's case cutscenes and voice overs, is the prime thrust of todays MMO's.

Graphics before gameplay rules the roost.

Best way to solve PVP problems ... put PVP in an instanced arena/battleground. Only those who want it will engage in it. Problem solved.

  ChicagoCub

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 304

9/01/12 11:18:32 AM#158
Originally posted by Parasitenoir

Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater.  I just have a more general question.

 

Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc.  I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.

Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself.  Does it provide to much of a challenge.  Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.

 

I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .

 

what are peoples thoughts on this?

Umm...maybe because I don't want to be "ganked" while I am questing?  I play a game for my enjoyment.  Not to provide you with a means to make yourself feel better about whatever it is you're lacking in the real world.  That's what moms are for.  If you don't have one, get a dog or something.  Just leave me the f**k alone.

  eddieg50

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 1478

9/01/12 11:18:38 AM#159
If  they made it so you could not attack someone who is more than 5 levels below you than it would be fair, otherwise it is a gankfest
  koboldfodder

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 367

9/01/12 11:22:02 AM#160

SWG had great PVP.  Open world Rebel VS Imperial, space where Neutrals could pick which faction to fight along side with, and a great PVP Bounty Hunter system.  The first year or so was great, once buffs became the deciding factor it lost a lot of it's luster.

EQ had really good open world PVP on each of it's three servers.  Most people played on the PVE servers but if you were on one of the Zek servers, the game had an entirely new dimension. 

The point is you can have open world PVP and have a great system, but you cannot have it in a quest-hub, themepark type of game.  The best you can do is put it where the PVEers are not, like LOTRO's Ettenmoors which is suprisingly good.

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