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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » I have one problem with gw2--No open world pvp!!!

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130 posts found
  Toxia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/09
Posts: 1285

8/23/12 11:45:53 AM#101
Truly open world PVP just wouldn't work....with everyone in PVE shooting off AOE's right close to each other, we would all just be killing ourselves....the game just isn't built to have this. Sorry.

The Deep Web is sca-ry.

  lilHeala

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/11
Posts: 528

8/23/12 11:47:39 AM#102

Yes I miss it too, like toothache.

WvW is much more interesting to me than those games with faction PvP servers where the server population / community is splitup and usually a faction imbalance like the majority rolling empire classes on a lot of servers in SW:TOR at / after launch.

Also in those games usually the spontaneous PvP action is only until most players have reached level caps, since there's no incentive to go back to lower level zones other than for lame ganking most of the action already a few weeks after launch is often only in the high level zones and certain areas with the best terrain for it or the most PVE repeatable quests objectives.

  Deadlyne

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 212

8/23/12 11:48:11 AM#103
Originally posted by Derros
Originally posted by Deadlyne
I haven't read all the posts in this thread.  I'm just responding to the OP.  No plans on even having one server with full PvP(read:open world), is the reason I have no plans to play GW2.  I was extremely excited about the game at first too.  It's a big downer for me.  I will just keep looking to the future of games, I'm sure one will come out in due time that offers what I really want.

You really want a pve game that has a server that just has a pvp switch flipped?  You dont want a game thats designed from the group up to include OPvP?

 

Not saying there's a game out there like that, but ive never seen a pve game with satisfying pvp.  Heck I remember the pvp servers for AoC, people just camping spawn points, and ganking people as they came out of towns.

You might not enjoy it, but I personally have in the past.  I loved playing EQ on the Tallon Zek server, Vanguard on the Sartok server and WoW pre battlegrounds.  All of those games fit into that category.  Granted WoW has changed over time into something else but back then WoW was basically a PvE game with PvP just layered on top.  I find it to be exhilerating, and I am not one of those who runs around ganking newbs or anything of that sort.  Especially in EQ and Vanguard where the dungeons and raid content isn't instanced and you actually have to fight over it.  Tons of fun to me.  I don't know why people refuse to believe that somebody can enjoy something that they personally don't.

Just to question the philosophy. Army of Socrates.

  Gonzomike

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/12
Posts: 30

I am Jack's smirking revenge.

8/23/12 11:50:30 AM#104
 Thats the problem,being in a game with open pvp and not enjoying it,so they dont play it. So if you like open world pvp,dont play Guildwars. No use complaining about something that isnt going to happen. 

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

8/23/12 11:51:13 AM#105
Originally posted by rygard49

I would enjoy at least one PvP server with FFA like back in DAoC Mordred days, but I don't see it happening for this game, ever.

It's not about ganking lowbies or waiting until someone is down to pixels of health from PvE and swooping in to finish them off. Although that certainly happened, there were server rules that prevented it from being worthwhile even as a form of griefing. Open PvP is really about the excitement that comes from knowing that at any time, during any situation, a fight might break out.

I've actually made some great lasting friendships from this type of gameplay from players who at first began as rivals. Over the course of a few great fights we formed a weird camaraderie and respect for each other, and then just ended up allying against the rest of the server.

It's a bummer that they won't have this feature, but, eh... it's their game to be carebear with if they want. It should still be fun.

 

So... in W v W there isn't a chance that a fight may break out? Theres no excitement in that style of PvP? 

Lets ignore the fact that I lived and breathed UO for over a decade. Lets ignore the fact that after Tram came about I made my home on Siege. Lets ignore the fact that I played DFO. Lets even ignore the fact that for my 20ish years of MMO gaming I've fought against or beside every major PvP clan/guild out there and even lead 1 or 2. Lets say I'm a carebear. 

 Explain to me in the GW2 setting why Open world PvP would be better than W v W?

  Deadlyne

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 212

8/23/12 11:52:27 AM#106
Originally posted by Gonzomike
 Thats the problem,being in a game with open pvp and not enjoying it,so they dont play it. So if you like open world pvp,dont play Guildwars. No use complaining about something that isnt going to happen. 

Who posts on mmorpg.com to be useful?  I do it because I enjoy it. 

Just to question the philosophy. Army of Socrates.

  otacu

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 550

8/23/12 11:52:42 AM#107
Originally posted by MindTrigger
 

What the hell difference does the MMO type have to do with rules written into the software?  There is no reason whatsoever why a flagging and/or opt-in system wouldn't work in a themepark. 

If you read my whole post, which I highly doubt, you would have seen that my post was about the merits and methods of World PvP while pointing out that I understand and respect ArenaNet's choice not to use it.  I'm not sure why you felt the need to talk to me as if I was arguing that GW2 should have it. 

Well count the number of good owpvp themeparks out there. Now the sandboxes with owpvp.

If you don't get why a flagging system is not good enough in a themepark see Tera. Simple as that.

  Ramadar

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/19/04
Posts: 166

8/23/12 11:55:09 AM#108
Originally posted by bubaluba
It is really not a hate thread and i really purchased gw2. Yes i am wow,eve,swtor fan (well ok  maybe not so much swtor anymore). I think it is a big, big mistake to make a game without open world pvp. My adrenaline rush will be so low and i could have 'that pve server feeling. RVR is just another instance or huge bg and  i really would  like to be able to attack anyone like in aoc. Do you guys miss that option to?

There's no player villain factions to allow owpvp the Charr could have been but they redesigned them to fit the overall story of the game, maybe when GW 3 is in the works they might look at owpvp but I wouldnt hold my breath for it.

Evil will always triumph because good is dumb....

  dzoni87

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/23/08
Posts: 553

8/23/12 11:56:00 AM#109
Originally posted by bubaluba
It is really not a hate thread and i really purchased gw2. Yes i am wow,eve,swtor fan (well ok  maybe not so much swtor anymore). I think it is a big, big mistake to make a game without open world pvp. My adrenaline rush will be so low and i could have 'that pve server feeling. RVR is just another instance or huge bg and  i really would  like to be able to attack anyone like in aoc. Do you guys miss that option to?

Play W v W a bit more. You may get that "adrenaline rush" feel after some time.

At least i did. *shrug*

Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  GeezerGamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4386

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

8/23/12 11:56:42 AM#110


I played WoW on PVE servers. Then when I moved to Rift, I wanted to spice things up and play on a PVP server.

I learned one thing about "OW-PVP". I doen't exist in theme park MMOs.
THere is no place for it.

All PVP servers do is create an environment where those who otherwise suck at their game can go feel like they are good at something. Their intent is to purposfully ruin someone else's game experience.


No, instead of having the choice of rolling on a PV server or a PVE server, it should read:

Yes, I wish to be ganked
No, I do not wish to be ganked.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  otacu

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 550

8/23/12 11:59:33 AM#111

Btw another advantage of having WvWvW and not the old owpvp is that after release the forums won't be flooded by ganking and griefing threads.

I guess there will be enough "where are the raids?" thread to fill the forum no need to have more useless threads around.

 

 

Bottom line. Yeah the only good argument for classic owpvp is the "feeling of danger" you get while leveling. I guess we can make a sacrifice for that one small thing and enjoy the multiple advantages of the WvWvW

  Doomedfox

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/01/10
Posts: 689

8/23/12 12:02:56 PM#112

 

After reading Ghosts of Ascalon i think its only natural that you would expect the game-world to have Open world pvp  after all there is a war going on but instead we see Humans and Chaar holding hands being best buddies....

That did make me wonder and i questioned the reason of Ghosts of Ascalon for why would someone release a book which differs greatly from the actual game?

What i am trying to say is that i do not understand why ppl say open world pvp would not fit the Lore if the Lore in the book clearly states otherwise.

Ganking is always a prob but (and correct me if i am wrong) i thought GW2 does scale your lvl to the zone you are in anyway so it is impossible to go kill way lower characters i personally hate the lvl scaling but if it would be in the game to prevent ganking it at least would be somewhat ok....but its not...

The whole argument that it would not fit the game play is somewhat right BUT it would also have been possible to make it fit DE for example could have 2 sides i could either defend the farm form bandits or support the bandits if the bandits would have won i could have taken over the farm (if enough ppl from the opposite faction helped with the takeover) which than could have lead to the Farm becoming an outpost from which raids on other farms could have started and also the home site could get events focusing on taking back the farm.

Thats only one possibility there could have been way more and all of them would have added some real flavor to the DE and make them truly dynamic.

So what we have is a game releasing books with lore that does not seem to be reflected in the game a mechanic that would prevent ganking a big deal already and a possibility to really spice up the DE. 

Yet all the arguments from the GW2 fans are that it would not fit the lore it would only lead to ganking and the game mechanics would not work with open world pvp....which is just not true.

Anet did a great job of selling there product it seems that most fans just blindly believe in all the sales pitches and don't even bother to try and see how (in this case) open world pvp would make sense and even could spice up the whole game.

I bought the game and i plan to have as much fun as possible but i will not stop to think for myself and will see some of the decisions for what they really are "just the easy way out" and will not buy into some of the crap Anet did try to sell us (boring quests are in there to make the fun quest more fun and not becoming boring...i mean really who the fuck would buy into that?)


I guess what i am trying to say is that some ppl might want to rethink some of there posts and see that some things GW2 does are not awesome and some things it does not have would be awesome despite Anet trying to tell us otherwise ;) 

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

8/23/12 12:04:31 PM#113
Originally posted by GeezerGamer


I played WoW on PVE servers. Then when I moved to Rift, I wanted to spice things up and play on a PVP server.

I learned one thing about "OW-PVP". I doen't exist in theme park MMOs.
THere is no place for it.

All PVP servers do is create an environment where those who otherwise suck at their game can go feel like they are good at something. Their intent is to purposfully ruin someone else's game experience.


No, instead of having the choice of rolling on a PV server or a PVE server, it should read:

Yes, I wish to be ganked
No, I do not wish to be ganked.

 Can't say I agree. I had a blast with it in WoW back in the early days of that game's existence. Depends on the design of the game as to whether it can work or not. Frankly with the way GW2 is designed it simply wouldn't work. The cities would need to be revamped, DEs would be a mess to try and complete, the port points would be whined about, the Asura Gate concept, etc. Simply won't work in this game. Many that say they would want open world PvP would bitch if the game was left in its current state and they allowed for an Open World PvP server.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  TheScavenger

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 672

Those who ask a question, are stupid for 30 seconds. Those who never ask, are stupid for life.

8/23/12 12:06:23 PM#114

Yeah. Back in WoW, on PvP servers. I would go around ganking newbies that for some reason turned on PvP in non-PvP zones. And went to barrens and ganked everything. That was the most fun I've had in a open PvP game, because levels mattered so much. I'll greatly miss that here :( All the rage in chat and private was what really made it great.

 

But ah well, I'm sure I'll find ways to have fun in GW2 :)

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  Cromica

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 662

8/23/12 12:08:25 PM#115
OPVP like the op wants, never going to happen in GW2.
  Derros

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 983

8/23/12 12:08:43 PM#116
Originally posted by Deadlyne
Originally posted by Derros
Originally posted by Deadlyne
I haven't read all the posts in this thread.  I'm just responding to the OP.  No plans on even having one server with full PvP(read:open world), is the reason I have no plans to play GW2.  I was extremely excited about the game at first too.  It's a big downer for me.  I will just keep looking to the future of games, I'm sure one will come out in due time that offers what I really want.

You really want a pve game that has a server that just has a pvp switch flipped?  You dont want a game thats designed from the group up to include OPvP?

 

Not saying there's a game out there like that, but ive never seen a pve game with satisfying pvp.  Heck I remember the pvp servers for AoC, people just camping spawn points, and ganking people as they came out of towns.

You might not enjoy it, but I personally have in the past.  I loved playing EQ on the Tallon Zek server, Vanguard on the Sartok server and WoW pre battlegrounds.  All of those games fit into that category.  Granted WoW has changed over time into something else but back then WoW was basically a PvE game with PvP just layered on top.  I find it to be exhilerating, and I am not one of those who runs around ganking newbs or anything of that sort.  Especially in EQ and Vanguard where the dungeons and raid content isn't instanced and you actually have to fight over it.  Tons of fun to me.  I don't know why people refuse to believe that somebody can enjoy something that they personally don't.

Did the whole open pvp thing in WoW on release through BC, Burning blade server.  Tauren mill vs southshore was the ONLY good thing about it.  Raiding other faction areas?  people just logged until you went away and it became pve.  questing?  better watch out for those pesky lvl 60s in STV roaming around. 

Oops they got you, well, all you have to do is res over there no worries dying doesnt hurt, oh wait they are camping your body, res at the GY, oops someones camping the GY too.  Call for help? na people dont care about you, other 60s come? the enemy goes away until they leave, log out? still there an hour later.

 

Honestly, the only game ive played with decent opvp was shadowbane, although i never played ultima or any of the older games.  Granted shadowbane was a complete trainwreck, but it had some damn memorable pvp, a decent item loss system to make death sting a bit, and some damn fun sieges.

  GeezerGamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4386

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

8/23/12 12:09:44 PM#117


Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by GeezerGamer I played WoW on PVE servers. Then when I moved to Rift, I wanted to spice things up and play on a PVP server. I learned one thing about "OW-PVP". I doen't exist in theme park MMOs. THere is no place for it. All PVP servers do is create an environment where those who otherwise suck at their game can go feel like they are good at something. Their intent is to purposfully ruin someone else's game experience. No, instead of having the choice of rolling on a PV server or a PVE server, it should read: Yes, I wish to be ganked No, I do not wish to be ganked.
 Can't say I agree. I had a blast with it in WoW back in the early days of that game's existence. Depends on the design of the game as to whether it can work or not. Frankly with the way GW2 is designed it simply wouldn't work. The cities would need to be revamped, DEs would be a mess to try and complete, the port points would be whined about, the Asura Gate concept, etc. Simply won't work in this game. Many that say they would want open world PvP would bitch if the game was left in its current state and they allowed for an Open World PvP server.

For me to ever play in an open PVP system that has some kind of levle or gear progression where low level players have zero chance of fighting back, there needs to be a mechnic in the game that rewards for honrable kills and punnishes for dishonorable kills. So if you are a consistent ganker picking fights with lowbies in their own zones and didn't initiate with you the high level player, then you lose honor. Do it enough and you might find yourself getting attacked by your on factions NPCs or a system where if your neg rep drops to a certain level, you become "wanted" where the game rewards players for hunting you. And now you show up as a Kill On Site target for everyone in the game.


If that isn't present in such a PVP game, I don't think I'll be leveling there.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  Ezhae

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/06
Posts: 734

8/23/12 12:13:07 PM#118
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by Ezhae

Again, for the n-th time. oPvP wouldn't work in GW2 without completely re-doing the PvE. PvP servers wouldn't work. There are no factions, all attacks arc, there is plenty of AoE, you wouldn't be able to do a single event without being hit by everyone you are not grouped with constantly. 

WvWvW is there for that mass, openish PvP feel. 

 

And no. I do not miss it. World PvP did not work properly in any of the recent MMOs. It only works in EVE, some relaly old ones, and a few indie/niche sandboxy games that are built with open PvP in mind. It was terrible in WoW, it was terrible in AoC and it was completley messed up in WAR in the time I played the game (first 3 months).

Not really for or against the PvP question in this case, but how does sPVP and WvW fit into the lore exactly?

It happens in Mists. Without getting into details, Mists are the realm between realms. It's like aplane that connects all other planes, the world of mrotals, with various god realms and underworld, etc. 

Lore wise, sPvP scenarios are battles of the past that player characters participate in. WvWvW or Eternal Battleground is just one big battleground for heroes to test themselves in the eyes of gods. Neither of them happen on the "mortal" plane of existance. 

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

8/23/12 12:13:10 PM#119
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by rygard49

I would enjoy at least one PvP server with FFA like back in DAoC Mordred days, but I don't see it happening for this game, ever.

It's not about ganking lowbies or waiting until someone is down to pixels of health from PvE and swooping in to finish them off. Although that certainly happened, there were server rules that prevented it from being worthwhile even as a form of griefing. Open PvP is really about the excitement that comes from knowing that at any time, during any situation, a fight might break out.

I've actually made some great lasting friendships from this type of gameplay from players who at first began as rivals. Over the course of a few great fights we formed a weird camaraderie and respect for each other, and then just ended up allying against the rest of the server.

It's a bummer that they won't have this feature, but, eh... it's their game to be carebear with if they want. It should still be fun.

 

So... in W v W there isn't a chance that a fight may break out? Theres no excitement in that style of PvP? 

Lets ignore the fact that I lived and breathed UO for over a decade. Lets ignore the fact that after Tram came about I made my home on Siege. Lets ignore the fact that I played DFO. Lets even ignore the fact that for my 20ish years of MMO gaming I've fought against or beside every major PvP clan/guild out there and even lead 1 or 2. Lets say I'm a carebear. 

 Explain to me in the GW2 setting why Open world PvP would be better than W v W?

I'll gladly ignore all of your 'credentials', since they're meaningless to this discussion.

I never said there was no excitement in WvW, so let's not go putting words in my mouth and making silly assumptions. This isn't a thread about how exciting or not WvW will be, and I won't be sharing my opinion on that here.

"Explain to me in the GW2 setting why Open world PvP would be better than W v W?"

Because I would enjoy that style more. It's my opinion, and my opinion, unfortunately for you, can't be wrong in this instance. Or do I need to come up with a spreadsheet of facts and numbers to back up why I think one thing would be more fun than another for me specifically?

  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

8/23/12 12:15:07 PM#120
Originally posted by Doomedfox

 

The whole argument that it would not fit the game play is somewhat right BUT it would also have been possible to make it fit DE for example could have 2 sides i could either defend the farm form bandits or support the bandits if the bandits would have won i could have taken over the farm (if enough ppl from the opposite faction helped with the takeover) which than could have lead to the Farm becoming an outpost from which raids on other farms could have started and also the home site could get events focusing on taking back the farm.

Thats only one possibility there could have been way more and all of them would have added some real flavor to the DE and make them truly dynamic.

You make it sound like it would be really simple when it isn't.  Population imbalances would mess that sort of thing up very quickly if you have two factions in the game.  If you have it be like flagging yourself, then it hurts the feeling of cooperation and working with others if the other guy could flag himself for PvP.  These sorts of things have been tried in games before...and they don't work well.  WoW had all sorts of open world PvP stuff in Burning Crusade, but it falls apart when factions are out of whack and it is extremely sensitive to the relative level distribution in factions.

Fundamentally, they designed the main game as a cooperative  PvE experience.  That was the focus and goal.  Tossing in open-world PvP would have messed that goal up.  Instead they have PvP in more controlled environments, where it is designed to work.

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