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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » P2P and F2P are both dead...Long live B2P! (like GW2)

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71 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

8/23/12 8:12:48 PM#61
Originally posted by Grunch
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
Originally posted by Grunch
Funny because the cash shop is the only reason I won't be playing GW2. I stay away from all cash shop games.

Interesting... why does a CS scare you away?  What is the risk?

Whats the reward? "Yay I bought Win"?


No matter what, it will eventually come down to items being "required" in order to compete. Thats how this business model works.


You can look at GW1.  It has had a cash shop and it hasn't descended into that at all.


Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1839

"I shall take your position into consideration"

8/23/12 8:58:26 PM#62

I believe that the top games will still use P2P business model in the future.

If the available information and estimates indicated that the game have potential to hold large number of players for a long time and the calculations / estimates the company makes show that the P2P model would be more profitable, they will always use that business model. The management which makes decisions have to act in accordance with the interest of their shareholders.

Imagine that next year, there will be a revolutionary, innovative, polished and overall amazing game which you would really like and that it would use subscription model. Would you pay for it? I would.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4


Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

8/23/12 10:16:14 PM#63
Originally posted by coretex666

Imagine that next year, there will be a revolutionary, innovative, polished and overall amazing game which you would really like and that it would use subscription model. Would you pay for it? I would.

I wouldn't.  I just don't trust sub models to actually come out with content that justifies the price tag.  I'd rather have 3 or 4 more brand new games each year or a dozen or two (or three or four) older games.


Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 2240

8/23/12 10:17:27 PM#64

Well, **ANOTHER** MMORPG that is supposedly going to change the face of of the genre.  I've heard this many times before, and I've enjoyed watching it unfold in unintentionally bad ways as each title came out.  I've seen the fanboys raging across the internet proclaiming the arrival of their lord and how it will be the next best thing since oxygen.  SWTOR was the biggest one of late.  It'll be interesting to watch the next "Messiah" of MMORPGs fall into the same path.  And it will be a hilarious joy to watch.

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)


Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/04
Posts: 337

8/23/12 10:27:55 PM#65
I dont play any mmorpgs, I like to find the negative in all of them and post rhetoric and hyperbole.

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/30/09
Posts: 456

8/23/12 10:30:21 PM#66


"Because GW2" is the explanation for this thread.....................................................?

Ugh, wow.....

  User Deleted
8/23/12 10:41:36 PM#67

I like the B2P model concept. In my opinion the sub formula has given too much power to the developers allowing them to short change consumers on content and quality.

Far too many players have been lulled into thinking they have everything already covered by the sub fee. Content and item wise this might be true but from the player experience level the general policing of games, chat channels, exploits, and hackers has dropped to intolerable levels.

Free to play games are far from free once players realize how much money it takes to be viable or competitive. A high quality game without a sub and the option to buy cosmetic or time saving items does not bother me. Paying a sub in an unattended game or playing a free to play game that requires hundreds of dollars worth of enchanting items are not my ideal pricing models.


Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1126

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

8/24/12 10:40:57 AM#68
Originally posted by Grunch
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
Originally posted by Grunch
Funny because the cash shop is the only reason I won't be playing GW2. I stay away from all cash shop games.

Interesting... why does a CS scare you away?  What is the risk?

Whats the reward? "Yay I bought Win"?


No matter what, it will eventually come down to items being "required" in order to compete. Thats how this business model works.


Can you explain?  How do you buy 'win'?

Nothing in the CS gives you an advantage and all gear is equal.  You cant buy something in the shop that will make you stronger/more powerful than me.

What makes you say items will be 'required'?   Sounds like you are basing this on an assumption or opinion you have as opposed to having actual facts to back up your point.

Actually, I dont see the business model working that way.  I see the business model being placing cosmetic and expansion items (those who want bigger bags like myself) and allowing the players to decide what they want to purchase ala carte.  I want a bigger bag so I will pay for that.  I dont like cosmetic items, nor do I want an XP booster (if its even available) and thus wont purchase those.

The model is actual built on having a QUALITY game that players want to PLAY first, then to suppliment them with additional items that may enhance their experience.

CS in and of itself isnt a bad thing - its how well they are implemented and how the items within them are balanced.

I think your view is a bit closed minded and would recommend giving GW2 a chance, but understand it still might not be your cup of tea.


Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5506

8/24/12 10:46:01 AM#69
Originally posted by Warmaker

Well, **ANOTHER** MMORPG that is supposedly going to change the face of of the genre.  I've heard this many times before, and I've enjoyed watching it unfold in unintentionally bad ways as each title came out.  I've seen the fanboys raging across the internet proclaiming the arrival of their lord and how it will be the next best thing since oxygen.  SWTOR was the biggest one of late.  It'll be interesting to watch the next "Messiah" of MMORPGs fall into the same path.  And it will be a hilarious joy to watch.

its the whole hype thing, in a few months time a different story will have emerged and rather than changing things, things will be exactly the same as they were before, ready for the 'next' big thing that will radically change the genre, they never do of course, and when the dust settles, probably nobody will remember anyway, todays news as they say, is tomorrows chip wrapper.. having said that i think GW2 will do well, but will it change things in any way.. probably not, and in a few months time, it probably won't matter one bit anyway.


Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2651

8/24/12 10:48:56 AM#70

First b2p mmo (as I do not count gw1 as such)....So no clue.


I still prefer paying a sub w/ no cash shop....But thats seems to be a myth anymore....So sub with cosmetic only would now be my preference.


Not a big fan of f2p overall, you have a lot of different ways it is done, most of them badly imo.



The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4101

OP  8/24/12 11:52:51 AM#71
Originally posted by Xthos

First b2p mmo (as I do not count gw1 as such)....So no clue.


Exactly. You get it.


If I ran an MMO no better than GW2 (eg. Rift) with a monthly sub, GW2's no-sub model providing a similar gaming experience would worry me because it makes the $15/month you pay to play mine seem like an unnecesary luxury tax.


It's not the hype. GW2 doesn't have to be (and isn't) the biggest thing since sliced bread. It has its fair share of  innovations, but every new MMO that comes out these days does too. All it has to be is the same (nearly enough) as the P2P ones for the whole sub model to be called into question.


And forget the cash shop bit: These days, they all pretty well have a cash shop of some sort. In Wow you have been able to buy prestige mounts and pets for several years and even the paid server, faction or name changes are a form of "cash shop" purchase. The Secret World ups this by adding clothing, pets, fireworks etc. P2P games do have cash shops too.


The only differences are in just how many things that actually affect game play are available in the cash shops. F2P games like DDDO, LOTRO, DCUO, etc. require you to make some purchases to experience the full game, WOW and Rift don't and GW2--which btw, is almost identical to GW1 in that respect--has a bit more than purely fluffy items (extra bank space, bags, extra character slots, xp boosts, etc.) but stil nothing needed to experience the full game: you do get the full game with the initial purchase, hence a true B2P MMO.

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