Originally posted by Soaapy

 

you could atleast get a level 50 while it's actually easy to get one

Wait a moment.. does players get Legacy if they have a lvl50 character?

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by birdycephon

As much as I'd like to agree, I feel like if they call it a "new game", that I'd have to re-purchase it all over again, which I absolutely refuse to do.

I'll be subscribing of course, but I'm not re-buying.

Call it a free sequel or something, this is just semantics? Either way, this is what ARR is:

"We've basically scrapped the original game and are rebuilding it from the ground up. Other than some NPC graphics and some of the equipment graphics - where we'll be reusing some assets - everything is being remade.

Other than the main parts of the cities, all of the maps have been redesigned from the ground up. The UI is completely new - it uses no elements at all of the previous UI - it's an all-new interface.

The server architecture - all of the coding of the server systems have been rewritten. Then there's the graphics engine - this is an all-new graphics engine created specifically for FF14. So pretty much everything has changed."

All this in ~14 months, and some people kept saying they aren't doing anything to the game all this time? Dumbasses. They made a game we saw in action in a matter of 14 months when other devs take 3-5 YEARS to do the same, and only skipped on some of the pre-production at BEST. Streamlined as hell.

Yeah this is really impressive and because of this FFXIV has resparked my interest in the franchise. 

Really? Another FF14 is getting a new patch so please re-write history thread? 

It hasn't realeased yet. Noone knows if the copied terrain, Locked in place paths, Ultimate bunny with energy lvl 9000 that can kill a beginer in 1 hit is still there. 

Wada is still taking the lead, this speaks for itself really. 

If the game is any different that fine lets re-write the slate however ff14 looking amazing was never any of the games issues and until we get a playable copy this is all just a big hope post AGIAN. 

I am not trying to be mean but no it doesn't need its own little section it is not a new game until it's actually tested.

LOL...

ARR isn't even an expansion.

It's a patch.

Stop crying for it to be called a new game.  It isn't.  They shouldn't have messed up the first one then they wouldn't have this issue to begin with.

Yes, I believe there should be a re-review.  But no, this is not a new game so suck it up.  It is a PATCH.  And for that matter, as it's taken as long as it has, I'm still not holding my breath that this will actually release and not be broken.

Originally posted by Ikeda

LOL...

ARR isn't even an expansion.

It's a patch.

Stop crying for it to be called a new game.  It isn't.  They shouldn't have messed up the first one then they wouldn't have this issue to begin with.

Yes, I believe there should be a re-review.  But no, this is not a new game so suck it up.  It is a PATCH.  And for that matter, as it's taken as long as it has, I'm still not holding my breath that this will actually release and not be broken.

So a game that only has about 10% of the original game remaining is only a patch? lol by 10% I mean already existing armor sets

The place to put this thread would have been under "Site Suggestions", they actually read and respond to it regularly. (might get overlooked over here, since it's not GW2)

Originally posted by Soaapy

Originally posted by Ikeda

LOL...

ARR isn't even an expansion.

It's a patch.

Stop crying for it to be called a new game.  It isn't.  They shouldn't have messed up the first one then they wouldn't have this issue to begin with.

Yes, I believe there should be a re-review.  But no, this is not a new game so suck it up.  It is a PATCH.  And for that matter, as it's taken as long as it has, I'm still not holding my breath that this will actually release and not be broken.

So a game that only has about 10% of the original game remaining is only a patch? lol by 10% I mean already existing armor sets

Don't cry about semantics.  There isn't a history of launch failures of this size and scope.  This is a patch.  This is a repair/fix/patch for all the problems in the game.

It is NOT an expansion (which would cost and would add to content).

This is not a launch as the game already exists, characters already exist, world exists.  Regardless that the content itself is being fixed, the game exists.

Originally posted by Ikeda

LOL...

ARR isn't even an expansion.

It's a patch.

Stop crying for it to be called a new game.  It isn't.  They shouldn't have messed up the first one then they wouldn't have this issue to begin with.

Yes, I believe there should be a re-review.  But no, this is not a new game so suck it up.  It is a PATCH.  And for that matter, as it's taken as long as it has, I'm still not holding my breath that this will actually release and not be broken.

I actually agree that ARR should not have a new page, it's just not necessary, and I say that even being a fan of what SE have done with the retooling of the game. It would just create confusion.

I don't agree really though that 'it's just a patch'.... that's doing SE a huge disservice in how they have handled this situation. If this had been SOE their game would have just been stuck on to life support for the next four years and then had a cash shop tacked on to it to milk it dry.

The sheer scale of what SE have done here is far more then 'just a patch'. It is a relaunch.

And kudos to them for that I say.

Don't cry about semantics.  There isn't a history of launch failures of this size and scope.  This is a patch.  This is a repair/fix/patch for all the problems in the game.

It is NOT an expansion (which would cost and would add to content).

This is not a launch as the game already exists, characters already exist, world exists.  Regardless that the content itself is being fixed, the game exists.

Well, not really. The game doesn't really exist anymore. After it's taken offline it'll never come back. It'll be down for months. In which time they'll be setting up the new servers for the new game client. The characters yeah you got me there lol. But the world doesn't exist that's being deleted also. By world I literally mean the entire in-game world is gone. Not revamped, or added to, completely made a new world from scratch. 

Originally posted by Soaapy

Don't cry about semantics.  There isn't a history of launch failures of this size and scope.  This is a patch.  This is a repair/fix/patch for all the problems in the game.

It is NOT an expansion (which would cost and would add to content).

This is not a launch as the game already exists, characters already exist, world exists.  Regardless that the content itself is being fixed, the game exists.

Well, not really. The game doesn't really exist anymore. After it's taken offline it'll never come back. It'll be down for months. In which time they'll be setting up the new servers for the new game client. The characters yeah you got me there lol. But the world doesn't exist that's being deleted also. By world I literally mean the entire in-game world is gone. Not revamped, or added to, completely made a new world from scratch. 

Ohh cool so it wont have linkshells that do the same thing the same 3 factions, the same classes, the same wait everything is still going to be the SAME except things that needs fixed that they messed up originally. All the rest is guesswork the graphics wouldn't work on the very system they created it for the PS3 so it has to be reworked. They don't get props for that. Ragnarok Online 2 didn't.

No double standerds. It will get re-re-re-reviewed by this site once it is launched. It really doesn't deserve that.

And don't misunderstand me....

I'm not saying that what SE is doing isn't incredible.  It takes something serious to ADMIT that everything they did was completely wrong.  It takes BIGGER cahones to say we're going to completely scrap everything we did and start over.

But at the end of the day, what is the delivery platform?

To play ARR, do you need to go buy a new box if you own FFXIV? No.

To play ARR, do you need to buy an expansion box in addition to FFXIV?  No.

Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client?  Yes.

I get that the word patch doesn't necessarily cover the scope of what they are doing but it really is just a patch.  A massive, awesome, updating patch.  But it is what it is.

Originally posted by Ikeda

And don't misunderstand me....

I'm not saying that what SE is doing isn't incredible.  It takes something serious to ADMIT that everything they did was completely wrong.  It takes BIGGER cahones to say we're going to completely scrap everything we did and start over.

But at the end of the day, what is the delivery platform?

To play ARR, do you need to go buy a new box if you own FFXIV? No.

To play ARR, do you need to buy an expansion box in addition to FFXIV?  No.

Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client?  Yes.

I get that the word patch doesn't necessarily cover the scope of what they are doing but it really is just a patch.  A massive, awesome, updating patch.  But it is what it is.

Fair enough, lol. It's still fucking awesome though. Just trying to spread the word :p

Originally posted by Ikeda

And don't misunderstand me....

I'm not saying that what SE is doing isn't incredible.  It takes something serious to ADMIT that everything they did was completely wrong.  It takes BIGGER cahones to say we're going to completely scrap everything we did and start over.

But at the end of the day, what is the delivery platform?

To play ARR, do you need to go buy a new box if you own FFXIV? No.

To play ARR, do you need to buy an expansion box in addition to FFXIV?  No.

Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client?  Yes.

I get that the word patch doesn't necessarily cover the scope of what they are doing but it really is just a patch.  A massive, awesome, updating patch.  But it is what it is.

We agree to disagree ;) The fact that they sacked everybody that worked on FFXIV, and it wasen't even ordinary SE employes but a chinese company that made it. The fact that Square Enix is taking this in there own hands makes a hugh difference! The graphic engine is new, the combat system is new, the crafting system is new, added classes, jobs and races, completly new made world, lvling system is new, the story is new! Hell what isn't new with this game??

And the only reason that it isn't released as a totaly new game is becouse SE feel like they OWE to the players to make up for there earlier failure! They are printing ARR like it's a new game to bring out to the retailers, and the old ones are thrown away. They could just as easily just put Final Fantasy XV at the lable and pissed off every fan out there.. but they didnt! This is a new game!
 

I forgot.. the UI is totaly awsome and new to! ;)

Originally posted by Odhelm

We agree to disagree ;) The fact that they sacked everybody that worked on FFXIV, and it wasen't even ordinary SE employes but a chinese company that made it.

They "sacked" the management, and the chinese company tidbit is just pure nonsense. It was 95% in-house and most people working on 2.0 were working on 1.0.

Have you even looked at the CREDITS of both games? Developed by the same people, only management and development procedures have changed.

Originally posted by Ikeda

Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client?  Yes.

You do? That's news to me.

I would have thought it'd make more sense for people to be able to download the NEW FFXIV client from the official website and uninstall the POS current client, but I guess you know more than I do~

Though in the end if the difference between a patch and an expansion/new game is that one costs money and the other one doesn't, that's a pretty silly way to make a comparison in my honest opinion.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

 

They "sacked" the management, and the chinese company tidbit is just pure nonsense. It was 95% in-house and most people working on 2.0 were working on 1.0.

Have you even looked at the CREDITS of both games? Developed by the same people, only management and development procedures have changed.

"..decided that the most viable step was to approach improvements under new leadership and with a restructured team." - Wada

Managerial Changes

Producer/Director
Naoki Yoshida

Section Leader Changes

Assistant Director
Shintaro Tamai (FINAL FANTASY X, Front Mission 5: Scars of the War)

Lead Game Designer
Nobuaki Komoto (FINAL FANTASY IX, FINAL FANTASY XI)

Lead Combat System Designer
Akihiko Matsui (FINAL FANTASY XI)

Technical Advisor
Yoshihisa Hashimoto (Next Generation Game Engine Development)

Lead Programmer
Hideyuki Kasuga (FINAL FANTASY XI, DIRGE OF CERBERUS -FINAL FANTASY VII-)

Senior Concept Artist
Akihiko Yoshida (FINAL FANTASY XII, Vagrant Story)

Lead Artist
Hiroshi Takai (FINAL FANTASY XI, THE LAST REMNANT)

Lead UI Designer/Lead Web Designer
Hiroshi Minagawa (FINAL FANTASY XII, Vagrant Story)
 

Seems like they have totaly changed management and done something with the devlopment teams.. we dont know what they mean with "restructed"? Anyhow.. Im happy with so many managers from FFXI! That can only be good ^^

Thoose persons ARE the new management..

This are the old ones;

Producer

Hiromichi Tanaka

Director

Nobuaki Komoto

Art Director

Akihiko Yoshida

Battle Director

Atsushi Okada

Music

Nobuo Uematsu

Level Design

Yusuke Kigoshi

Scenario

Yaeko Sato

World Concept Planner

Kenichi Iwao

An even more interesting discussion is whether how much the managers role affect the outcome of a game..?

Patches and expansions can't be listed as completely new games, because then one would have to draw a line to somewhere to determine "When is the game updated enough that it ceases to be old game and turns into new game instead?"

EQ1 has undoubtedly changed so much that it's a new game, not the old game released back 1999. But with huge amount of expansions and patches, what was the patch that changed it from the old game it was to the new game it is today? How about EVE Online? Clearly it's wastly different today than it was at lauch date, but when did it turn from old EVE Online to new EVE Online that is a different game? Anarchy Online today is clearly a new game compared to the old Anarchy Online that was horrible bugfest at launch, but where to put the line between the new game and the old game?

Separate forum for expansion/large patch and maybe even separate hype rating are a good thing. But drawing lines when a game has changed so much that it should be called a new game is not possible. The line would end up being one person's opinion, and much of the community would resent it.