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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Interesting Gamespy article: Our Questions and Concerns

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98 posts found
  Touc

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 21

8/22/12 9:04:23 AM#61
I don't see how combat is so dynamic and different either since it's standard tab-targeting wtih dodge. I've been watching streams since the stress-test yesterday and the combat really doesn't look any different than most MMOs. I wish they would've taken Tera's combat with the dodge + skillshots combat. I just don't see why there is all this hype around the game; maybe it's particularly the no-sub fee?
  Kaocan

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/09
Posts: 1312

The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.

8/22/12 9:11:19 AM#62
I actually liked that article. He wasn't bashign the game at all, just bashing the players and thier KNOWN bad behaviors. The same bad behaviors that have caused many a games down fall in the past. All he is saying is that if we the players continue to be who we have been in the past, that this game can also fall to those same issues. And he isnt wrong on any of them, we are that bad on all those areas.

(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)

  User Deleted
8/22/12 9:16:19 AM#63

This pretty much sums up my opinion about this article:

Originally posted by Caliburn101

If only internet 'journalism' was subject to some sort of editorial rigour....

Perjorative language and the use of absolute statements to deal with what at best amount to informed guesses is very poor.

I will deal with each part of the article in order;

1. Will the Community Be Weak?

He starts well enough here - making a valid point many people are worried about. He doesn't however point out the rather obvious fact that judging community interraction from a beta - where there are no permanent guilds, targetted resource farming, dedicated dungeon grouping and grouped people who know each other (not to mention dedicated RP'ers running events) is not representative.

2. Can the Endgame Keep Players Happy for More Than a Couple of Months?

Claiming that 'innevitable claims of boredom' will occur a month or two after launch after addressing what he thinks endgame will involve in one sentence is as ridiculous as comparing the game to SW:TOR - 'cleared in a matter of days'. The clear implication here is of course that large numbers of players will clear the content in a matter of days and then innevitably complain. He fails to address the WvW PvP, the DE/downscaling content model, nor does he have the slightest sensible thing to say about the dungeons or the scale of challenge in the unseen highest level zones. There is simply no balanced assessment here - it is two assumptions piled on top of the smallest of foundations. This would be inadequate enough in a forum post - never mind an article on a major media site.

3. Will the Lack of a Trinity Actually Work?

This one is just amazing. In BWE2, having personally grouped with a 'ragtag group' (as he puts it) and having downed the 'Eater of Ghosts' in that explorable iteration of the Ascalonian Catacombs I was both impressed and pleased at the level of difficulty, the skill and cooperation shown by the group I was with and the innovative ways we managed to deal with things. Having to think about how to make our collective abiities 'fit' over a soution and radically change who did what in each boss encounter was a breath of fresh air. Sorry - all dungeons in all MMOs at first are multiple wipefests if they are well designed. It takes time and effort. This guy clearly likes his challenges dumbed down. Implying that the Dev's he was playing with were 'experts' in PvE and therefore the no-trinity model doesn't work is a the laziest form of tangential reasoning - and entirely invalidates this part of the article. A clear case of garbage in, garbage out.

4. Is There an Infestation of Bugs Waiting to Happen?

Way too much 'biblical catastrophe' language used here - he laces this entire section with doomladen 'innevitabilities' without the slightest reasonable justification. Bitterness exploding on a massive scale? Catastrophic backlash? All this based upon the statement - "if the guesting system fails". Having witnessed a single failure of a single feature in a single beta he cries DOOM! This is about as bias as one can get whilst still trying to look neutral (at least to the most undiscerning of audiences at any rate....).

5. Is Combat Interesting Enough?

The only WOW which should be indulged in this part of the article is the reaction to having the combat part of GW2 compared to WoW combat.... stating that it is dissapointing compared to TERA and too much like WoW is yet another illustration that this review is backed by little more than a cursory glance at combat footage rather than significant hands on experience. The closest combat I have ever played compared to GW2 is Age of Conan - one of the things Funcom actually did right in that game. The experiences in combat the author talks about here are overwhelmingly at odds with the experiences of countless beta players and reflect the limitations of the reviewer far more than they do the game.

I will quote the last paragraph of the article verbatim - as it makes my point for me;

"Nothing to Fear but Fear Itself?

Of course, none of these things are certain. As with every game launch, there are a terrifying number of "what ifs" that'll remain unanswered right up until we start up the final product and jump in to explore. I'll be in there from the first moments on, so you can expect to see me put each of these fears to the test during the review process."


.... personally I would have preferred if the author had put his 'fears' to the test BEFORE writing this rubbish. Anyone using the word 'terrifying' to describe the shortcomings of a game as yet unreleased needs to learn how to express himself in less extreme language - language which could perhaps reflect the true extent and comparative importance of the issues rather than the biased negative hype this review tries to present to the reader as a 'balanced view'.

I have seen less bias critiques by the offices of politicians slagging off their election opponents whilst simultaneously trying to make their candidate seem statesmanlike.

I've had my morning cofee and am in a good mood - so I'll review this review with a generous score;

3/10

Doomsaying is popular. Doomsaying gets views for your website.gamespy = ign = fox = want a lot of views.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

8/22/12 9:18:52 AM#64
Originally posted by Touc
I don't see how combat is so dynamic and different either since it's standard tab-targeting wtih dodge. I've been watching streams since the stress-test yesterday and the combat really doesn't look any different than most MMOs. I wish they would've taken Tera's combat with the dodge + skillshots combat. I just don't see why there is all this hype around the game; maybe it's particularly the no-sub fee?

heres a two videos of some PVP tournaments.. obvious GW2 is graphically much better due to the newer game but overall look and feel is much more dynamic to me..

 

Blizzcon2011 WoW Tournament - OMG vs Skill Capped (Grand Finals - Complete)

Match Cast: Super Squad [SS] VS Paradigm [TP] GW2

 

but honestly you really need to play each game to really tell how big of a difference there is

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Leucent

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 2452

8/22/12 9:20:32 AM#65
Lol, those are my feelings almost bang on. WvW is the only thing saving this game for me. As I ve said many times, GW2 is a great second or third game.
  lifeordinary

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 691

8/22/12 9:24:08 AM#66
Originally posted by Leucent
Lol, those are my feelings almost bang on. WvW is the only thing saving this game for me. As I ve said many times, GW2 is a great second or third game.

Honestly, PVE in GW2 puts me to sleep. I am also only and only playing  GW2 for PVP.

  Touc

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 21

8/22/12 9:43:00 AM#67
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Touc
I don't see how combat is so dynamic and different either since it's standard tab-targeting wtih dodge. I've been watching streams since the stress-test yesterday and the combat really doesn't look any different than most MMOs. I wish they would've taken Tera's combat with the dodge + skillshots combat. I just don't see why there is all this hype around the game; maybe it's particularly the no-sub fee?

heres a two videos of some PVP tournaments.. obvious GW2 is graphically much better due to the newer game but overall look and feel is much more dynamic to me..

 

Blizzcon2011 WoW Tournament - OMG vs Skill Capped (Grand Finals - Complete)

Match Cast: Super Squad [SS] VS Paradigm [TP] GW2

 

but honestly you really need to play each game to really tell how big of a difference there is

I really want to try it without buying it first. It just looks pretty and that's it. I've watched various videos where the devs/person spews out generalities about how great the game is but doesn't explain anything in detail. Is their a video that explains the loot and "endgame" gearing/loot?

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

8/22/12 9:51:39 AM#68
Originally posted by Touc
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Touc
I don't see how combat is so dynamic and different either since it's standard tab-targeting wtih dodge. I've been watching streams since the stress-test yesterday and the combat really doesn't look any different than most MMOs. I wish they would've taken Tera's combat with the dodge + skillshots combat. I just don't see why there is all this hype around the game; maybe it's particularly the no-sub fee?

heres a two videos of some PVP tournaments.. obvious GW2 is graphically much better due to the newer game but overall look and feel is much more dynamic to me..

 

Blizzcon2011 WoW Tournament - OMG vs Skill Capped (Grand Finals - Complete)

Match Cast: Super Squad [SS] VS Paradigm [TP] GW2

 

but honestly you really need to play each game to really tell how big of a difference there is

I really want to try it without buying it first. It just looks pretty and that's it. I've watched various videos where the devs/person spews out generalities about how great the game is but doesn't explain anything in detail. Is their a video that explains the loot and "endgame" gearing/loot?

read this http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/46603-faq-equipment-attributes-and-you-updated/

also have lots of videos in my sig on various aspects of the game from actual players not just dev's

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2665

8/22/12 10:13:18 AM#69
Originally posted by Eir_S

As for his comments on end game, it's sad that people feel a game will fail if it doesn't force you to stay competitive fhrough excessive amounts of repetition and widening the gap between max level and earlier content, making you an invincible killing machine outside of maybe 5% of that content.  It's really sad. 

Agreed, but this is the current MMO market.  It's one of the reasons WoW is able to hold onto their 9 million + subs.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  NightBandit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 795

Make friends not money, then wealth will follow.

8/22/12 10:17:59 AM#70
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by GamerUntouch
Seems like the author doesn't understand the design of this game at all.

yea got the same feeling reading that

 Spot on there are to many people talking like they know nothing at all about the game design. So lets hope they get to understand when they do finally get their hands on it. Still only a few days and these boards and many others will go quite for a few days at least.

Bandit

The Bandit

  GamerUntouch

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 491

8/22/12 10:18:44 AM#71
Originally posted by GamerUntouch

I disagree with the whole "no one talks so there's no communication thing".

Something actually happened to me today.

 

I was doing an event, a hard one too.

Someone joined me to help.

 

Basically the person was killing it while I was kiting it around.

I still managed to die, but they ended up dieing too and we spawned at the same waypoint, it was awkward when I saw them again and we both knew eachother from that.

 

Just because people aren't talking doesn't mean there's no communication.

I feel it's nesscary to repost this because a lot of people are missing the point of the game still.

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2665

8/22/12 10:24:38 AM#72
Originally posted by GamerUntouch
 

I feel it's nesscary to repost this because a lot of people are missing the point of the game still.

That's the point of any MMO.  Sorry, but this experience is not unique.  I have experienced this at least once in every MMO I have played over the years.

 

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  GamerUntouch

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 491

8/22/12 10:25:36 AM#73
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by GamerUntouch
 

I feel it's nesscary to repost this because a lot of people are missing the point of the game still.

That's the point of any MMO.  Sorry, but this experience is not unique.  I have experienced this at least once in every MMO I have played over the years.

 

Who says it's unique, I'm countering the people who said there's no interaction.

  atticusbc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/22/07
Posts: 1075

I hated hipsters before hating hipsters was cool.

8/22/12 10:30:25 AM#74

i agree with all of their points. these are all things i've been worried about myself, but i'm hoping will be resolved as time wears on. except the last one about the combat. not because he is entirely wrong (even with the combat mechanics as they are i still found myself using rotations a bit with my skills. of course, that is just at low levels, against low levels foes; higher level/stronger mobs forced me to rethink my strategies but there's still the chance a rotation will emerge), but rather because he says that a hunter in gw2 played like a wow hunter because he tab targeted and hit number keys for skills. ... well... yeah.

unless you're playing an fps with no targeting whatsoever, those're the key bindings that you use. if they had changed targeting to the "~" it wouldn't make any difference. the way you interact with enemies on such a basic level does not really reflect on the combat as a whole. also the hunter may not have been the best example he could have used. disclaimer: i didn't try the hunter for very long, but bows are bows to a certain degree. even the ele felt like other mage classes in other games. no other class that i played beyond the absolute beginning (lvl 5 is where things get interesting in my opinion) played like anything i had ever encountered. the possible exception is that gw2's warrior felt a bit like tera's warrior. except that i had more weapon options than none. and i didn't just run in a circle around the mob. and i wasn't just wearing a few scraps of chainmail.

  Touc

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 21

8/22/12 10:35:29 AM#75
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Touc
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Touc
I don't see how combat is so dynamic and different either since it's standard tab-targeting wtih dodge. I've been watching streams since the stress-test yesterday and the combat really doesn't look any different than most MMOs. I wish they would've taken Tera's combat with the dodge + skillshots combat. I just don't see why there is all this hype around the game; maybe it's particularly the no-sub fee?

heres a two videos of some PVP tournaments.. obvious GW2 is graphically much better due to the newer game but overall look and feel is much more dynamic to me..

 

Blizzcon2011 WoW Tournament - OMG vs Skill Capped (Grand Finals - Complete)

Match Cast: Super Squad [SS] VS Paradigm [TP] GW2

 

but honestly you really need to play each game to really tell how big of a difference there is

I really want to try it without buying it first. It just looks pretty and that's it. I've watched various videos where the devs/person spews out generalities about how great the game is but doesn't explain anything in detail. Is their a video that explains the loot and "endgame" gearing/loot?

read this http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/46603-faq-equipment-attributes-and-you-updated/

also have lots of videos in my sig on various aspects of the game from actual players not just dev's

Thanks, that link really helped me out with the loot and stats. I really think if I buy this it will be because their is not a sub-fee.

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2665

8/22/12 10:35:49 AM#76
Originally posted by GamerUntouch

 

Who says it's unique, I'm countering the people who said there's no interaction.

You posted "people are missing the point of the game still."  I was just countering that it's the point of any MMO.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

8/22/12 3:45:32 PM#77
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
Originally posted by Caliburn101

If only internet 'journalism' was subject to some sort of editorial rigour....

If the article had been filled with praise then you would be touting as an outstanding work. It is an editorial blog about some of the potential weaknesses in GW2's design. I am a GW2 fan, but I am not so blind that I can't see that these are potential issues. There is no right or wrong when it comes to an opinionated blog and even less so when he addresses some valid concerns. Your feeble attempts to dismiss them are laughable at best.

I would be touting it would I?

Do you often start your posts with unsupportable guesses on things you cannot know the truth of?

I dismiss the author's statements based on a reasoned critique of his article and it's obvious lack of depth or associated evidence.

You on the other hand are dismissing my post with nothing more than supposition and guesswork.

A pity....

BUT - at least you didn't indulge in having a go at me directly - you took issue with what I wrote - so kudos to you sir....

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

8/22/12 3:51:47 PM#78
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Caliburn101

If only internet 'journalism' was subject to some sort of editorial rigour....

If only "legitimate" journalism did, too.

Hopeless Cause, Don Quixote.  No source is above being attributed with an agenda.  Not any actual agenda, mind you, stirring suspicion is sufficient...

Fox News, ABC News, New York Times, Washington Post--  We're having more fun of sneering at their perceived biases than following their actual news.

Well said - I remember Murdock getting the shaving cream pie in his face for being allegedly a liar of epic proportions.... it might interest you to know that security confiscated over 20 shaving foam cans that day in London at the venue....

People love to fling squishy stuff when expressing their displeasure - a bit like the 'troll dung' one so often sees flying in these forums....

As for windmills - I find tilting at them to be a momentary bright folly which lifts my mood along wth the coffee - call it an indulgence, but I find the limitations inherent in some of the responses to be truly hillarious....

  Wolvards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/12
Posts: 674

8/22/12 3:59:43 PM#79
Here is my problem with the game. I hate PvE, but after seeing the level 20ish human swamp boss, i'm like, "Dude that wasn't even level 20 content yet, WTF is in the next 10 levels!?!?!" and then I think, that's not even halfway through the game.

The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  Treekodar

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 529

8/22/12 4:02:13 PM#80
Originally posted by Syno23
I'm concerned how they're going to raise money for expansions, at what quality, what will endgame be like, things that GW2 cannot service to hardcore players.

If GW1 is any indicator, you don't have to worry about expansions, there'll be plenty of them, probably with a hefty price tag as well.

Eleanor Rigby.

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