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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Wanting MMO Failure

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136 posts found
  GrumpyMel2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1824

8/23/12 10:03:22 AM#121
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by k-damage
Great post Icewhite.

Naw, Pontificating.

But damn it, we used to encourage constructive criticism once upon a time, not just cheer the guy who vents his rage the most colorfully.

Would any of us cheer, if we weren't protected by anonymity?  If we had to watch junior employees walking out of corporate offices with boxes of personal effects?

Please,  there are plenty of careers that offer job security...the game industry isn't one of them. Anyone who goes into it knows what they are getting into. No one is cheering because some low level guy lost his job, they are cheering because a company that makes shoddy products and treats it's customers (and in many cases employees as well) poorly gets what it deserves.

The likes of EA, Activision and Warner Bros. aren't charities or non-proffits that deserve our support because they are trying to make the world a better place. They are for proffit corporations who are out there trying to make thier share-holders rich. Nothing wrong with that, but please don't try to tell me we should be pulling out the violins when they fall victem to thier own shoddy practices and incompetence.

As a consumer, I support enterprises who treat me decently and with a modicum of respect. I support enterprises who take pride in thier work, produce high quality products and stand behind those products. I'm actualy a pretty loyal customer of any company/brand that follows those principles. Just ask Matrix Games, if you doubt me. I've even gone so far as donating to Kickstarter projects (Pathfinder Online) for companies who had concepts which I felt were worthy of backing and had difficulties with traditional financing, companies that also seem to treat thier audiences well.

However, the likes of EA and Warner Bros aren't that. They are the anthesis of what I respect in a business. They treat both customers and employees like absolute dirt. They produce shoddy products that they try to sell mostly on hype, adverstising and false impressions. They don't stand behind thier products. They engage in borderline shady business practices. They are about maximizing proffits REGARDLESS of the means employed to do so. They are the type of organizations that give business and corporate world a bad name. The hobby,  the industry and probably the country would be a much better place with fewer companies like them around and I have no problem saying so. Given the fact that EA was voted "The Worst Company in America", I'm apparently not alone in that regard. So yeah..no violins or apologioes from me there.

  jayarte

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/09
Posts: 450

8/23/12 10:33:35 AM#122

"People love to see suffering and pain as a form of amusement. If somebody is not failing, we are not succeeding. It’s only human nature to want to be first place and want our team to win. We feel more alive when we see death and mayhem, if it is not happening to us. Our life should be perfect because we’ve all had a horrible childhood and it is our time to shine even if it means death to our opponents."

 

These statements are in the third paragraph of the article and immediately made me lose interest, although I did skim through to see if there was anything of interest.  Generalisations are just so sloppy and irritating (to me, anyway).  "People love to see suffering and pain as a form of amusement."  I don't so does that mean I am not a person?  Why not say "Some people ..."?

 

"If somebody is not failing, we are not succeeding."  Who does the "we" include?  Given your previous and following statements, I assume you're including everyone?  I don't share that perspective at all, so am I not part of the "we"?

 

Now this one really makes me gnash my teeth "It’s only human nature ...".  Really?  Human nature?  That which is considered "human nature" varies widely across different cultures and historical epoch.  There are some really informative books by anthropologists and historians which bear that out.  Perhaps you haven't read any?

"We feel more alive when we see death and mayhem ..."  Well, that "we" leaves me out again.  I feel nauseous and distressed when I see death and mayhem, not more alive.

 

I'm not saying all the above to be sarcastic, nor as a put-down, nor trying to be clever.  I just wanted to point out that it is clumsy to use generalisations like this, and that your article, which contained some interesting points, would have read much better (to me, anyway) if you had avoided them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

8/23/12 11:00:53 AM#123

-The next time you see a hateful comment or a person that just doesn’t understand why your game is better; just know their hate and ignorance is building the hype for your game.-

 

Soooooo true.  I love that.  It makes me giggle.  Wishing for failure for a game, is childish, selfish, and cruel.  Some people just have issues.  This site has an inordinate number of those "people with issues."  But from now on instead of being pissed off at the trolls, I will remember they're just building the hype for other games.  I love it!  :)

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  Nailzzz

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/08
Posts: 489

8/23/12 11:01:01 AM#124

     Im glad that Star Trek: DS9 got brought up in this as it serves as an excellent illustration of why most people want a game to fail and yet no one here seems to be aware of why which makes it all the more perfect an example. People seem to want certain games to fail because they are afraid that more games will enjoy the same success that ST:DS9 enjoyed for you see, That show was a successful clone of another show.

     People dont want a game they dont like to become successful since they believe that it will then become a trend to have other companies copy that success. This is not an unwarranted concern as this has in fact been happening for the last several years. ST:DS9 is guilty of the exact same thing. The entire ST:DS9 series was a stretched out version of Babylon 5 season 1. The creator of Babylon 5 made the error of leaving his season 1 manuscript with paramount studios when he was trying to solicit them to green light Babylon 5. They declined and he instead managed to get his show run through Warner Bros. Shortly after Babylon 5 aired, paramount started airing Star Trek: Deep Space 9. The entire run of the series following an identical story arc and premise as the first season of Babylon 5.

     While i admit to preffering Babylon 5 over ST:DS9, Farscape is actually my absolute favorite sci-fi show.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19075

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

8/23/12 12:22:54 PM#125
Originally posted by Nailzzz

     Im glad that Star Trek: DS9 got brought up in this as it serves as an excellent illustration of why most people want a game to fail and yet no one here seems to be aware of why which makes it all the more perfect an example. People seem to want certain games to fail because they are afraid that more games will enjoy the same success that ST:DS9 enjoyed for you see, That show was a successful clone of another show.

     People dont want a game they dont like to become successful since they believe that it will then become a trend to have other companies copy that success. This is not an unwarranted concern as this has in fact been happening for the last several years. ST:DS9 is guilty of the exact same thing. The entire ST:DS9 series was a stretched out version of Babylon 5 season 1. The creator of Babylon 5 made the error of leaving his season 1 manuscript with paramount studios when he was trying to solicit them to green light Babylon 5. They declined and he instead managed to get his show run through Warner Bros. Shortly after Babylon 5 aired, paramount started airing Star Trek: Deep Space 9. The entire run of the series following an identical story arc and premise as the first season of Babylon 5.

     While i admit to preffering Babylon 5 over ST:DS9, Farscape is actually my absolute favorite sci-fi show.

Brings back memories when the Sci Fi Channel actually broadcast sci-fi shows, loved Farscape, LEX, and a couple of others.

Now we get Warehouse 13  and 24/7 Ghosthunters.....

Arrogant, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  User Deleted
8/23/12 12:31:01 PM#126
I suppose the reason why I want certain games to fail is because I am afraid if they become popular then the next decade will be spent talking about "insert hypothetical game here" clone.  Imagine everyone speaking of "Tera Clones"  *Shudders*.   If studios and developers ever decide to get back to their roots of innovation and creativity then maybe I might not hope they fail but if they continue to turn out crap like Tera or WAR then their bottomline concerns me very little.
  FelixMajor

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/07
Posts: 546

8/23/12 12:33:47 PM#127

I don't want games to fail, but it does make me rofl when companies put all their time and effort into making these gigantic mmo games that are literally the same damn game that has been released time and time again.

 

I get it, that to them this is what they do as a career, to make a living, and for most as what they are talented at and enjoy doing.  HOWEVER, game developers are becoming these diluted copororations that care more about making their pockets scrap the ground rather than actually being creative and using their artistic talents and minds to create these worlds and visions they have.

 

With the hardware and internet access/speeds available now, games should be progressing as well.  So many games wasted on trying to be "realistic" and what not.  If I want realism, I go outside.  Playing a game is like reading a book or watching a movie.  It's a world created by an artist or artists, it shouldn't be reality rehashed.  Be out there and wild and imaginative when people enter this world they go "HOLY SHIT",

 

It's so so sad, so sad, soooo sad...makes me cry.  Makes me shake my head when their games flop and go f2p as if they never saw it coming and eventually are forgotten as more games of the same thing are released.

Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  Skyy_High

Novice Member

Joined: 12/03/10
Posts: 140

8/23/12 1:01:45 PM#128
Originally posted by Lethality

For me, wanting a game to fail is attached to simlply disagreeing with design decisions or execution, and not wanting success to be a roadmap for future games (which it would stand to reason I would also not like!)

I echo this, and I'll also add on that even players who don't give a crap about "roadmaps for future games" have reason to root for the failures of games they don't play. 

It's quite simple, really. MMOs aren't like other games, they thrive when lots and lots of other people are playing them. If another popular MMO dies, or at least loses subscribers, there will theoretically be more players out there who are "available" to play your game. Whenever a new MMO launches in the already crowded MMO space, it threatens to take subscribers away from established MMOs. Neither of these situations are good for you if they mean that the population of your MMO will go down. 

  Theodwulf

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/12
Posts: 207

8/24/12 4:49:56 AM#129

Not wanting to be a shill for bad companies putting out a bad products makes one a bad person? It  has nothing to do with tribalism or schadenfreude. A bad game is bad. The emotional aspect comes from the herd of shills knowingly lying abou a game to prop up sales. How many guys like you, industry writers are guilty of that? And it suprises you that the community is squelling for a good 'ole fashion bloodletting?  A product that doesn't function well is a bad product, that's not just an "opinion", it's a fact.

 

  The community expects "critics" to be honest, that's why we watch/read them. The community expects companies to deliver a quality product at a fair price. Are those expectations unreasonable? 

  gracefield

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/06
Posts: 284

8/24/12 6:45:56 AM#130
No harm, but 90 per cent of this convoluted palava is unnecessary and irrelevant. You need to decide whether you're producing a piece of engaging journalism or an academic paper...
  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1171

8/24/12 7:15:09 AM#131
Originally posted by BlitzVF

I want games to fail so the players will quit, come back to my game, and tell me how my opinions were right all along.

No wait... Im not that insecure and only care why it failed so I can make sure I dont make the same mistake in any future project of mine.

The bit in orange is the most unapologetically spot-on response I've read so far.

 

'course, there's still more to read :)

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  Sunscour

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 136

Go Outside!!

8/25/12 8:08:10 PM#132

 

I wonder do gamers have a lower sense of self worth? Are the stereotypes true? Are we all a bunch of loosers sitting in our moms basement?

Maybe we all need more sunshine and kittens.

(Or maybe we all need to play more of the games we enjoy and complain less about those we don't)

Life is Short, Read a Book.

  Tibernicus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/15/12
Posts: 437

8/25/12 8:29:18 PM#133
Wait, so you think people want MMOs to fail just because they enjoy the suffering of others? Man... the staff at this website is clueless...
  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6732

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

8/27/12 12:23:12 AM#134

Personally i feel readers quite often do not know how to read into user comments.They automatically assume the worst example "we want your game to fail".I am pretty sure we do not have any mind readers on these forums.

I want all 100% games to be great.What i don't want  is people spreading nonsense about how great a cheap game design is.if you don't iunderstand game design or how some things are done that is fine,but don't defend something you know nothing about.

I have seen people claim EVE has the best graphics of all games,nonsense.When you stick 2d paper cutouts in a cutscene/movie it is NOT good artwork.When you have low detail on meshes/models/gear it is NOT good graphics.When you make simple static buildings with no insides it is NOT a good effort.

All it takes is for people to understand what a developer is doing and what COULD they have done.However instead of giving feedback or even trying to talk about improvements,we get constant threads about "i can't wait any longer" "GW2 or 10,000" "this game will change the genre  forever".None of this encourasges a developer to step up the effort,it actually encourages them to rush the product out because they already have you sold.

The lack of retention over the last 5 years is a product of too many people buying into hype or were bored so bought the next NEW THING.The last fail to  these games is the developer's lack of effort and fans who NEVER acknowledge any problem until the game is dead.So lots of people that NEVER help a game improve or get to the quality it should be at on release.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  RolanStorm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/01/03
Posts: 36

Believe nothing of what you hear, and only half of what you see.

8/27/12 12:05:45 PM#135

That 'magical' feeling when you start reading an article and after a couple paragraphs you understand that article is not so much about mentioned subject, but about life as it is in general.

Great read.

eilertalemat Xfire Miniprofile
  GR3NDEL

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/12
Posts: 103

8/27/12 8:02:23 PM#136

I find all the 'I'm on a crusade to make sure that WoW-clones don't become the next model for MMOs' comments very interesting.  Very... interesting.

I'm constantly seeing posters screaming about innovation - but to me, that word is a bit like 'traditional family values'... lots of people seem to know what it isn't, but not that many know what it actually is.  It's become less of a word with concrete meaning and more of a soundbite - sounds great to say, but what does it actually mean?  If a game came out that smacked of innovation, then what would that game look like?  Would people play it, or rage/quit because the developer's concept of innovation didn't match their own?

I guess I'm of the old school of gaming - if I play a game, and don't like it, then I take my business elsewhere.  If someone else asks me my opinion of the game, I will give it.  If they say 'Well, I'm gonna give it a try anyway' I just shrug and say 'Okay, hope you have fun.'  I'm not on any grand crusade to 'change the face of gaming as we know it' and I'm certainly not going to cheer as an MMO fails, or struggles - even if it's one I don't like.  I don't get any personal satisfaction from that.

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