Trending Games | Skyforge | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online | World of Warships

    Facebook Twitter YouTube
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:3,024,626 Users Online:0
Games:842  Posts:6,481,298
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodborne Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chroma Squad Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthlock: Festival of Magic Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Fable Legends Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Immune Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Necropolis Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Trapped Dead: Lockdown Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utherous Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles 3D Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » [Editorial] General: Modern PVP Sucks and Here's Why

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 Search
119 posts found

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8156

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

8/22/12 8:16:09 AM#101

No, OP. Just no.

Mixing PVP and PVE as in the days of early UO was just a horrible idea. Period. Some players loved it, but most people simply hated it, and for good reasons. I never would have begun to play MMOs if MMos had remained like early gankish UO.

So, no.

People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert


Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 207

8/22/12 9:02:42 AM#102

The problem with modern PvP is that it lacks purpose. It turned into an esport. It usualy has no connection to the rest of the game (different rules, isolated instances etc.) and it does not influence the rest of the game in any way.


There are some notable exceptions (EVE Online) but those are generaly niche games.


Simply put, if you take most current MMOs and strip the PvP implementation into a seperate game where you equip a character with anything you want and go play, you will not miss anything.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/11
Posts: 110

8/22/12 9:08:58 AM#103

Fantastic article, exactly how I feel, right down to feeling useless in PvP matches.  There is only one game coming forth that I have EVER enjoyed PvP in, and the rest of them I dropped either immediately, or very shortly thereafter because I just grew tired of the PvP trash-talking BS, twitchers ganking me because of insane hand-eye coordination with a keyboard and mouse, or joystick, etc.  I can't give you the name of that game because I'm under NDA, but it involves big stompy robots from a game I've loved since early '85.


Absolutely excellent article, and I know many of the PvP'ers will not have the brain power or common respect to understand how we PvE'ers feel, and thus leave us the hell alone, but the rest of you PvP-preference folks, if you don't understand it already, suck up this article into that gray matter and go about your business with other PvP players.


Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 36

8/22/12 10:39:03 AM#104

To me the PvP lost its meaning with the evolution of the mmo in the post WoW world - I could probably ramble on for hours, but I will simply list the things that basically changed the game as we know it: 

1. instancing

2. esports-level fixation on `build perfection` and theorycrafting.

3. gear centrism that resulted from #2

4. instant gratification based, mobile player culture(in the sense that disloyal to a game and its community, moving on to the garden with the greener grass) 


The feeling of community, the sense of realm pride, the competitiveness not based on a ladder but on the renown (in the actual meaning of the word, not some stat in a game) among the server population have all been slowly replaced by the investor-board-room originated choices of the developers who increasingly tried to lure the FPS players into the market.

Gone are the days of Shadowbane, where a significant portion of PvP was actually taking place in the diplomacy and politics of a server, in alliances and wars and ambassadors craft. Days when the foolish act of a careless guild member would provoke wars among groups of hundreds, which would result in 3 days long (72 hours of real life sieging) razing of capital cities and wiping from the map of guilds..

Gone are the days of DaoC, where your enemy was not named "blue invader" or "red enemy" but an actual name (/salute to Wootles of Albion and Aneuryzm of MIdgard, names that still give a chill in the hibby spine of mine) that you get to know, hate, fear over time. Days where your actions at the frontier mattered, that if you were 10 minutes late to getting that relic keep, a significant bonus that affected your whole realm (including the pver) would be gone.

Now it is all about that gear score, about that %1 more crit. About that tourney that you won, which will pit you against a stronger enemy in an instanced 20 minute fight (like a fifa 12 game on an xbox..)

It is simply too late to go back to those days. We just try to make of what we have (gw2) and hope that the pendulum of time will once again swing towards our direction, where instant gratification centric, gear based instanced mmo's will be a thing of past..



Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/12
Posts: 1

8/22/12 11:12:38 AM#105
pretty... amazing post.
I never saw PvP that way, and yes I think PvP sometimes sucks because there's always someone so freaking hard addict and spends like 3 to 7 days to achieve maximum level... I like to enjoy the game and see the story through it, and yes I think it is nonsense being teleported to some kind of battlefield, kill a lot of ppl and die a lot too while story isn't changing

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 2395

8/22/12 11:34:45 AM#106
I agree i don't understand the arena style pvp , i am somehow in a cube of the game with no relation to the game where 5v5 duke it out , a victor emerges quickly and you do it all over again. While i don't mind the inclusion in gw2 for the sole purpose of well this is going to be basically a add on competitive game, its honestly were all the people will pvp (as the real pvp areas will be full if successful). I am not going to give gw2 too much credit here other than at least attempting to mimic daoc's pvp style (without of lore, setting, and reason for fighting existing. Honestly i would love to see their first x-pack come off the selves as a rewrite of invading forces and why you fight these opposing servers, Where the RPG integrate this stuff. But the open would pvp in wow and most other game was and is just bad, there is never pvp just ganking and capturing an area to do raids. No epic df runs, no exping in the frontiers for the bonus exp, no group/side based challenged /enemy to overcome. Just everyone out for themselves or their few friends. there is no RPG in this pvp.

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine


Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

8/22/12 1:33:21 PM#107
yes you are :)

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/09
Posts: 2

8/22/12 4:13:01 PM#108

I realy like that article. I have 100% the same impression and feeling.

But since there are obviously too many casual gamers outside it need to be that way. Every game with real PvP (DF, FE etc) failed because of the lack of a player base.

Mosst ppl like to spam a single (ok sometimes a few) buttons to win.

But hey i got a example for propper PvP from yesterday...created a new character in Neocron2 - Dome of York - went to the first cave to level up my skillZ and BOOM got insta killed by another player. The thrill of real open world PvP still exist in some old games.

On the flipside i realy loved the story of my first character in SW:TOR but PvP...go away with that.

deleila Xfire Miniprofile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/15/05
Posts: 172

8/22/12 7:46:56 PM#109

PvP feels like a seperate "game" because it has been done so badly up to now.  It is not incorporated into gameplay, it is overlayed, or worse, just "accomodated".  "Here we'll stick it in an instance and maybe no one except those PvP rabblerousers will notice."  I am really looking forward to GW2 but they are doing the same thing, sticking all the PvP in instances where it's out of sight, out of mind, if you don't participate.  It's detached from, and has no impact on, the rest of the world and feels like a totally different experience than the rest of the game.


You can't stick PvP in an instance, you can't confine it to certain, specific, unreachable areas of the world, and there has to be some benefit, aside from gear, for participation.  And at least  some support from the whole population.  The closest anyone has come so far has been the periodic events they used to have in WAR.  Did you ever notice that even people who didn't like "PvP" were there fighting right next to the rest of us who did?  I think next to the thrill of the kill, the completion of the quest has become a powerful motivator.  I think there are far too many quests in the majority of the MMO's out right now and you could really make them more meaningful and sought after if they were less frequent,  and made more exciting by incorporating some PvP elements.


The other problem with PvP not being incorporated into the world is that one never feels as though  they have made a difference after partcipating in PvP.  Player versus Player should be about conquest, honor, pride, and reward.  It may contain some PvE objectives but it must impact the world that the players live in.  Make PvP matter in terms of higher prices, weaker skills in PvE, or more resources, better loot, or new discoveries/recipes/whatever, things that MATTER to the entire population the whole time they are logged in and not just when they are in an instance.  


When there is a true PvP-centric game developed, from the ground up, so that the conflict matters, PvP will be the most incredible experience ever seen in an MMO. But no one has done that with a current generation MMO. It's all about chasing WoW and releasing more formulaic MMO's one right after the other, with nothing to differentiate from the other 29 MMO's that came out last year that all do the same thing.


Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/10
Posts: 194

Wherever you go, there you are.

8/22/12 7:57:21 PM#110

MMO PvP is crippled due to a simple truth of how many games are structured:


Gear and stats and slavery to The Grind.


When Gear and Stats are the primary factors gating admitance to, and participation in, PvP, the game basically establishes an unavoidable redirect to The Grind as a result.


Push the slider too far in that direction, which many MMOs do, and you've taken the P)layer in PvP away to too high a degree.  It's not about PvP anymore, it's about who's spent the most stupid-time dumb grinding (in many instances in PvE activity, lolololol - lulz) activity.


The sad thing is, a great many "hard core" PvPrs actually fall into two categories:


1)  The biggest carebears in the game . . . surpassing those who chose at the outset to play on PvE servers.


2)  Players NOT interested in freedom to PvP, but rather the greatest proponents of keeping it restricted.


I found my recent foray into Guild Wars refreshing.  I had heard GW was far less gear based than other MMOs, and to my pleasure that was in fact the case.  While it's predominantly Skill based (meaning game-provided attack skill on your hotbar) as opposed to Gear grinding, and I did run into some "unkillable" foes in GW battlegrounds, it was the frequency, degree, prevalency that told the tale:


I was in the fight, I was dangerous, I was killing people.  I didn't see rampant one shotting.  This from a newb to the game just popping into a BG to take a look see. 


Overall, the flavor and feel of PvP was far more fun than many other MMOs, because the "high spots" in overpowerment were much shallower.  The sine-wave, for lack of a better way to put it, didn't have huge spikes in it between players.   It was there to some degree mind you, particularly as I was a new player to the game, but it just didn't exist in the dumb-arsed way it does in other games that are careless with valuation of player-time logged in.


In my opinion most people, even those who today who say they "hate" PvP, would actually like it a whole lot more, even if they lost a lot . . . if they felt they were at least in the fight.  It's when a game takes people OUT of fights due to levels and/or gear stat-packing, that it just . . . gets . . . stupid.


PvP is some really great stuff.  The problem is that many people, including some dev houses, don't understand what the acronym stands for:  Player versus Player.


Wherever you go, there you are.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 319

8/22/12 8:13:50 PM#111

My problem with PVP is that everyone is just out for themselves.   You see very little cooperation.  I'm hoping GW2 addresses this issue.


I hate it when devs start nerfing skills because of pvp.   Hate it.  Keep pve skills and pvp skill entirely separate.


I pvp only to get the rewards.   I don't take it seriously, really.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/12
Posts: 1

8/23/12 5:59:00 PM#112
I too miss old school DAoC days of wonderful PvP, nothing has scratched the itch for that type of PvP since, they are all button-mashing toolbar-staring lack-of-tactics messes.  DOMINUS was looking promising and was likely to be the next best PvP MMO since DAoC; it was close, and then it was closed.  It needed more people interested in what this writer wants.  Hope for it to reopen some day, it looks to be a great MMO for the true PvPer.

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/09
Posts: 24

8/24/12 5:05:42 AM#113


 Eve online has pvp about right

 a: you have investment in the  ship you are fighting in

 b: you dont need to be uber skilled or rich to take part in either small or large scale pvp

 c: its pvp isnt particulary twitch based

 d: pvp can have meaningful consequences  for both sides


 its only real down side is that it can devolve into the biggest blob wins (not always) but there is a critical mass that carnt easily be beaten. Luckily for the game those power blocks eventally change


Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 477

8/25/12 5:46:54 AM#114
PVP in just about all MMORPGs is bad.  If you want a real pvp mmo on an epic scale you need to wait for Planetside 2.  It is pretty much the only choice, luckily it's very good.

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/12/04
Posts: 876

Make worlds not stories

8/25/12 10:46:06 AM#115

Also modern pvp lacks consequence, its just too easy beeing a ganking prick.

No "player police" to hunt you down and put you to "jail" for 2 real days if you go around acting like a punk. No chance of loosing your gear or other type of consequence, that would make pvp honorable because it is risky to fight other players. You can stab a human in the back in a human town right infront of a guard, and nothing happens.

This is what invites players to become ganking pricks, instead of pvp lovers who like the extra dimension that pvp can give a world. This is what seperate the good pvp (in mostly older games), from the pvp that only ruins the rest of the game.


Oh.. hail to the Metal Kings!

"I am my connectome"


Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/10
Posts: 253

8/25/12 9:30:43 PM#116


I hate those games that make you pay hundreds of real world dollars, just so you can go and gank some one who does not have the money to buy the gear to be an equal in battle!

If you want to kill someone in 2 seconds flat, got play a fps, oh, sorry, if you did that you would be the ones dying, can't have that can we!

The only place pvp should be allowed is on an even playing field, but unfortunately, the gankers can't handle an even match, that's why they go hunting noobs!

Have I said how much I hate GANKING!!!


Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/12
Posts: 1

8/25/12 10:59:57 PM#117

Interesting discussion, but, it seems EVERYONE has been missing a few simple main points.

1. It is a game after all. If it has turned for you into more than that, you probably won't fit in with 95% of the population.

2. How much time does 95% of the population really want to devote to MMO(RP)G games or, really, how much time do individuals have to spend on gaming? - not all that much. Hence, the mostly casual gamer drives the economics behind gaming and game design.

3. Like with any person, your learning curve in anything, including gaming, will only significantly improve if you spend time learning an activity. Depending on how you spend your time, your curve increases more steeply (for the involved 5%) or less, to much less. so for people who manage their time differently.

4. A person (the 95%) is probably more motivated by wanting to experience a game as an epic and artistically beautiful adventure (a diversion, I love Skyrim for that reason (on X-box))  and they are not interested in a constant war-like situation, especially since they are not motivated to bring their learning curve up quickly and steeply (not that they couldn't if they wanted to.) 

5. If I am the CEO of a game design company, who am I primarily going to design my game for? I think the answer is clear.

Concerning the current state of PvP play, try kicking a chicken roaming around the wilderness in Skyrim, and the chicken will screech and take off. Go to a farm in Skyrim and kick the farmer's chicken, you won't survive because the (soldier) guards will take you down immediately because you are trespassing and demolishing the farmer's property. Get a reputation like that and eventually you will not be able to show your face anywhere in Skyrim and guards will attack you on sight. I think this is a good system that should be implemented quickly to weed out the nasties inhabiting the PvP MMOG world. (Wish we had this system in the real world too :-).)



Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/15/12
Posts: 437

8/25/12 11:07:20 PM#118

Modern PvP sucks because a) its hard, and modern MMOs can't stomach difficulty

and b) Modern MMOs are all WoW clones, and you cannot have good PvP in a PvE game like WoW.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 263

8/29/12 4:28:39 AM#119

Sad thing when they keep copying WoW... PVP is a mess if you have to spec and glyph a specific class for it, because your PVE class is weak in PVP for no apparent reason, other than the fact that Blizzard can't balance every spec ><.  


Heh, so you get people that can play PVE and PvP because they are class a and spec a, but class a and spec b is penalized and can only PVE or only PVP... 



6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 Search