Originally posted by Foomerang

From Anet's GW2 Manifesto in August 2010:

Mike O'Brien:

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We founded ArenaNet to innovate, so Guild Wars 2 is our opportunity to question everything, to make a game that defies existing conventions.

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Node farming. Drag n drop crafting. High fantasy setting. Cash shop in game. Esport pvp. Instanced dungeons. Heart quests. I don't feel these are innovative. I don't feel like they took an opportunity to question everything. Hype.

Lets look at an MMO and find everything they copied from it, things that are quite hard to get away from.

And their node farming is different you dont mention no competition,

drag n drop crafting? they at least require you to make the parts for a lot of items rather than "oh you got 5 wood and 3 silver, here's an axe, enjoy",

high fantasy setting, the game is based off of the books and the lore behind it, not much they could do about that

Cash shop, but not P2W, they have to make money and at least you dont HAVE to buy anything and you can buy it with IN GAME currency unlike other games

Esport pvp, not really that common but they did it in GW1 and the skill based is based around it

Instanced dungeons, sorry forgot all dungeons had to be open world and at least raid bosses arent instanced, but you failed to mention that.

Heart quests, dont have to turn them in, can do whatever combination of things you want, but you'll ignore that.

Misinformation

 

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If you love MMOs, you'll want to check out Guild Wars 2, and if you hate MMOs, you'll really want to check out Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2

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So basically, everyone should want to play this game. Hype

 

Colin Johanson:

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...and then when you play the combat in our game, you say 'Wow, that's incredible. I've never seen anything like that...

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I have seen this in a lot of games. Hype.

This exact combat system? I think not, misinformation

 

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In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. 'I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.' That's great.

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That was pretty much my experience with dynamic events. I did remedial tasks hoping to trigger something interesting. Hype.

Becuase you probly only made it maybe through the very first zone, and didn't go past another, misinformation

Ree Soesbee:

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As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn't care that I'm there.

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This one really rings false. Even totalbiscuit complained that events cycled too frequently and within minutes an area that he had been to before was already starting the cycle over again. Hype.

Was changed in BWE3 BECAUSE of the high player base and since you would make a new char every few levels to try everything out. Not supposed to do that, was for one BWE, wasn't that way in the stress tests after. misinformation

 

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We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building, and in Guild Wars 2, it's your world. It's your story. You affect things around you in a very permanent way.

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It is a premade story with multiple premade choices. Affecting things around you in a permanent way? That is simply not true and has been confirmed by everyone playing this game. Hype.

Sorry, forgot where if DEs failed the world around me stayed the same, or that every story could have different endings depending on your choices doesn't make it your story. Misinformation

I don't hate the game. I'm bringing up these points because they are a counter point to this discussion and felt they needed to be brought up. I'm sure you can reason away every point I made. Doesn't change the fact that this game was indeed hyped up years ago with this viral video by Anet. And not all of the things they claim ring true for everybody.

All you are doing is throwing out misinformation to warrant people about the game and how you assume that this game is not what it should be because of it. You have done this so many times that I can't believe you still believe this anymore. Get some real facts and stop listening to all the naysayers and passing over the people like Aerowyn who have proven you and other wrong so many times in the past and assume that they are just part of the hype train and they don't know any better.

 

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by Aerowyn
you really trying to not understand? in 2010 it was hype.. how is it just hype now after thousands have played the game? after thousands have put tons of hours into the game.. how now there is thousands of hours of gameplay footage on almost every aspect of the game?... I'm just dumbfounded how people can't see the difference in this. Also in red your Home instance does have permanet effects depending on what you do in your personal story. Also some of those others are just your opinions on those aspects of the game nothing more.

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Oh I understand fully. The point of my devil's advocate post is that people have different views of hype because their expectations and interpretations are vastly different. You even said yourself that those were my opinions. Yet you imply that my opinions are wrong and yours are right. Neither are either heh. Same with hype. Hype exists on a person by person basis. And there is no right or wrong answer.
I'm sorry you unwittingly proved my point. My point was never to say GW2 is overhyped. I just said my opinion on the matter. My opinion only. Speaking for myself only. My interpretation of things that Anet said themselves. There is no right or wrong.

Wow, just wow. I posted my thing and honestly called your reaction to Aerowyn perfectly. You literally ignore people like him because you assume he's on the hype train when the information is out there for you. I can't even believe you are that ignorant.

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Originally posted by eggy08

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Originally posted by Foomerang From Anet's GW2 Manifesto in August 2010: Mike O'Brien:

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We founded ArenaNet to innovate, so Guild Wars 2 is our opportunity to question everything, to make a game that defies existing conventions. Node farming. Drag n drop crafting. High fantasy setting. Cash shop in game. Esport pvp. Instanced dungeons. Heart quests. I don't feel these are innovative. I don't feel like they took an opportunity to question everything. Hype. Lets look at an MMO and find everything they copied from it, things that are quite hard to get away from. And their node farming is different you dont mention no competition, drag n drop crafting? they at least require you to make the parts for a lot of items rather than "oh you got 5 wood and 3 silver, here's an axe, enjoy", high fantasy setting, the game is based off of the books and the lore behind it, not much they could do about that Cash shop, but not P2W, they have to make money and at least you dont HAVE to buy anything and you can buy it with IN GAME currency unlike other games Esport pvp, not really that common but they did it in GW1 and the skill based is based around it Instanced dungeons, sorry forgot all dungeons had to be open world and at least raid bosses arent instanced, but you failed to mention that. Heart quests, dont have to turn them in, can do whatever combination of things you want, but you'll ignore that. Misinformation  

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If you love MMOs, you'll want to check out Guild Wars 2, and if you hate MMOs, you'll really want to check out Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 So basically, everyone should want to play this game. Hype   Colin Johanson:

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...and then when you play the combat in our game, you say 'Wow, that's incredible. I've never seen anything like that... I have seen this in a lot of games. Hype. This exact combat system? I think not, misinformation   In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. 'I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.' That's great.

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That was pretty much my experience with dynamic events. I did remedial tasks hoping to trigger something interesting. Hype. Becuase you probly only made it maybe through the very first zone, and didn't go past another, misinformation Ree Soesbee: As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn't care that I'm there.

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This one really rings false. Even totalbiscuit complained that events cycled too frequently and within minutes an area that he had been to before was already starting the cycle over again. Hype. Was changed in BWE3 BECAUSE of the high player base and since you would make a new char every few levels to try everything out. Not supposed to do that, was for one BWE, wasn't that way in the stress tests after. misinformation   We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building, and in Guild Wars 2, it's your world. It's your story. You affect things around you in a very permanent way.

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It is a premade story with multiple premade choices. Affecting things around you in a permanent way? That is simply not true and has been confirmed by everyone playing this game. Hype. Sorry, forgot where if DEs failed the world around me stayed the same, or that every story could have different endings depending on your choices doesn't make it your story. Misinformation I don't hate the game. I'm bringing up these points because they are a counter point to this discussion and felt they needed to be brought up. I'm sure you can reason away every point I made. Doesn't change the fact that this game was indeed hyped up years ago with this viral video by Anet. And not all of the things they claim ring true for everybody. All you are doing is throwing out misinformation to warrant people about the game and how you assume that this game is not what it should be because of it. You have done this so many times that I can't believe you still believe this anymore. Get some real facts and stop listening to all the naysayers and passing over the people like Aerowyn who have proven you and other wrong so many times in the past and assume that they are just part of the hype train and they don't know any better.  

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For combat, he said "never seen anything like that". I've seen a lot of combat like this. You countered with "exact combat system". Like and exact are two entirely different things. I'm just going off of what Colin said.

Unless you can prove that events never repeat, then there is no permanence in them. If every event only happened once and never repeated, that would be permanent. But they do. They are designed to.

Again. This isn't a bash GW2 post. I was trying to get people to understand that hype is open to interpretation.

Originally posted by Foomerang

From Anet's GW2 Manifesto in August 2010:

Mike O'Brien:

---

We founded ArenaNet to innovate, so Guild Wars 2 is our opportunity to question everything, to make a game that defies existing conventions.

---

Node farming. Drag n drop crafting. High fantasy setting. Cash shop in game. Esport pvp. Instanced dungeons. Heart quests. I don't feel these are innovative. I don't feel like they took an opportunity to question everything. Hype.

 

 They said that they questioned everything, not changed everything.  It does defy some existing conventions.  I will accept what he said as acceptable, and dismiss your charges as you hyping it up beyond the actual meaning.  :)

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If you love MMOs, you'll want to check out Guild Wars 2, and if you hate MMOs, you'll really want to check out Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2

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So basically, everyone should want to play this game. Hype

 

No, everyone should check it out!  That's good solid advice.  Lots of people who love MMOs and even people who hate MMOs have ended up liking GW2.  Saying people should check out your game isn't hype, that's suggesting that people should look at it and they might like it.  More misreading on your part. :)

Colin Johanson:

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...and then when you play the combat in our game, you say 'Wow, that's incredible. I've never seen anything like that...

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I have seen this in a lot of games. Hype.

 

 Well, I'd say the combat has its own spin, but I'll accept that this is Colin being overly excitable about his combat.  I'd say it's different in its own ways, but not to the point where everybody playing it is going to be agog over the differences.

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In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. 'I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.' That's great.

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That was pretty much my experience with dynamic events. I did remedial tasks hoping to trigger something interesting. Hype.

 

I had fun pretty much the whole time!  More than usual.  This is a your mileage may vary thing.  It's like saying 'This racing game will blow you away'.  Well.  Not if you don't like racing games.  :)

Ree Soesbee:

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As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn't care that I'm there.

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This one really rings false. Even totalbiscuit complained that events cycled too frequently and within minutes an area that he had been to before was already starting the cycle over again. Hype.

Everything Ree Soesbee talks about is personal story.  They even pointed this out within a couple weeks of the manifesto coming out, in multiple sources.  I'd say this isn't so much hype as confusing people because it's unclear what she's talking about.  She's being honest, just... honest about something other than people appear to think she is.  They should probably have re-edited the manifesto to have a little * and a footnote at the bottom whenever she talks.  This also applies to the quote directly below, since there ARE things permanently changed for you in the personal story.

 

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We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building, and in Guild Wars 2, it's your world. It's your story. You affect things around you in a very permanent way.

---

It is a premade story with multiple premade choices. Affecting things around you in a permanent way? That is simply not true and has been confirmed by everyone playing this game. Hype.

 

I don't hate the game. I'm bringing up these points because they are a counter point to this discussion and felt they needed to be brought up. I'm sure you can reason away every point I made. Doesn't change the fact that this game was indeed hyped up years ago with this viral video by Anet. And not all of the things they claim ring true for everybody.

 

 

 I'll agree some things are your mileage may vary type things, but some of the things they've said you're reading the wrong way, or are actually factual when you say they're not.  Personal story really does have permanent changes in it that affect what happens with your character and their (instanced) environment. :)

Originally posted by Eir_S
People are generally just disillusioned with the genre, the last few games that were hyped were disappoinments.  By their logic, that means anything hyped is doomed to disappoint in the same way.  Statiscally, that's impossible.

This pretty much sums it up

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Originally posted by eggy08

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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Originally posted by Aerowyn you really trying to not understand? in 2010 it was hype.. how is it just hype now after thousands have played the game? after thousands have put tons of hours into the game.. how now there is thousands of hours of gameplay footage on almost every aspect of the game?... I'm just dumbfounded how people can't see the difference in this. Also in red your Home instance does have permanet effects depending on what you do in your personal story. Also some of those others are just your opinions on those aspects of the game nothing more.

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  Oh I understand fully. The point of my devil's advocate post is that people have different views of hype because their expectations and interpretations are vastly different. You even said yourself that those were my opinions. Yet you imply that my opinions are wrong and yours are right. Neither are either heh. Same with hype. Hype exists on a person by person basis. And there is no right or wrong answer. I'm sorry you unwittingly proved my point. My point was never to say GW2 is overhyped. I just said my opinion on the matter. My opinion only. Speaking for myself only. My interpretation of things that Anet said themselves. There is no right or wrong.

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Wow, just wow. I posted my thing and honestly called your reaction to Aerowyn perfectly. You literally ignore people like him because you assume he's on the hype train when the information is out there for you. I can't even believe you are that ignorant.

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Thats not what I was saying at all. You missed the point of my thread and called me ignorant. I don't appreciate that. Sorry you misunderstood me. Sorry if you were offended.

Originally posted by eggy08

Wow, just wow. I posted my thing and honestly called your reaction to Aerowyn perfectly. You literally ignore people like him because you assume he's on the hype train when the information is out there for you. I can't even believe you are that ignorant.

 ... why does everybody think poor Aerowyn is a guy?

I hope she doesn't have to worry about that problem in real life. :(

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Originally posted by Meowhead
 I'll agree some things are your mileage may vary type things, but some of the things they've said you're reading the wrong way, or are actually factual when you say they're not.  Personal story really does have permanent changes in it that affect what happens with your character and their (instanced) environment. :)

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Mileage and interpretation do vary. Thats the point of my original reply. And no, I don't think personal story = permanence. I also don't think that choosing a hairstyle that your character will have forever means the game has "permanence" lol. You get where I'm coming from :)

Originally posted by eGumball

When people understand the difference, I think we will have a healthy community.

First time for everything, you got my vote!

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

 

Mileage and interpretation do vary. Thats the point of my original reply. And no, I don't think personal story = permanence. I also don't think that choosing a hairstyle that your character will have forever means the game has "permanence" lol. You get where I'm coming from :)

 .... but that is specifically what she was talking about.  So it's not false.

You could say it's CONFUSING.  It's confusing as heck.  Since I've been reading GW2 information since the original magazine article, I got to read all the interview explanations where they went "Oh no!  no.  No.  Ree Soesbee?  She's talking abou the personal story."

Most people never saw those.

... but it's not false, it's merely confusing.  ... and the decisions are permanent, since you can't take them back.

I would say that character creation (Barring some method of changing it later) would be a permanent thing.   You're stuck with it.  Well, the decisions made in personal story, you're stuck with those.  Fail to rescue an NPC, you won't see them again. 

It has permanence in the same sense any SRPG does.  (In the parts that are more like an SRPG, of course. :P )

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by eggy08

Wow, just wow. I posted my thing and honestly called your reaction to Aerowyn perfectly. You literally ignore people like him because you assume he's on the hype train when the information is out there for you. I can't even believe you are that ignorant.

 ... why does everybody think poor Aerowyn is a guy?

I hope she doesn't have to worry about that problem in real life. :(

I swear to god, I saw a post a long time back when someone said he/she and he circled HE, though his profile says otherwise. I could be mistaken thou

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by eggy08

Wow, just wow. I posted my thing and honestly called your reaction to Aerowyn perfectly. You literally ignore people like him because you assume he's on the hype train when the information is out there for you. I can't even believe you are that ignorant.

 ... why does everybody think poor Aerowyn is a guy?

I hope she doesn't have to worry about that problem in real life. :(

I swear to god, I saw a post a long time back when someone said he/she and he circled HE, though his profile says otherwise. I could be mistaken thou

lol you can go into my post history I have NEVER said either way but my profile gives a hint:)

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by eggy08

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Originally posted by Foomerang From Anet's GW2 Manifesto in August 2010: Mike O'Brien:

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For combat, he said "never seen anything like that". I've seen a lot of combat like this. You countered with "exact combat system". Like and exact are two entirely different things. I'm just going off of what Colin said.

Unless you can prove that events never repeat, then there is no permanence in them. If every event only happened once and never repeated, that would be permanent. But they do. They are designed to.

Again. This isn't a bash GW2 post. I was trying to get people to understand that hype is open to interpretation.

Fine, combat system is open for opinion, I'll give you that.

Look at other posts to see the permanence or watch some of Aerowyn's videos. I can't show you personally it because I didn't take screen shots or did videos showing that. And having an event only happen once would be bad mechanics, that form of permanence is not what he meant. He meant that if you fail or if you pass DEs, different scenarios will happen and it happens to NOT ONLY you but the rest of the world for everyone. This holds a lasting effect to people and makes their quests seem more involved than just doing them and that being it.

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Originally posted by Meowhead

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Originally posted by Foomerang     Mileage and interpretation do vary. Thats the point of my original reply. And no, I don't think personal story = permanence. I also don't think that choosing a hairstyle that your character will have forever means the game has "permanence" lol. You get where I'm coming from :)

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 .... but that is specifically what she was talking about.  So it's not false.

You could say it's CONFUSING.  It's confusing as heck.  Since I've been reading GW2 information since the original magazine article, I got to read all the interview explanations where they went "Oh no!  no.  No.  Ree Soesbee?  She's talking abou the personal story."

Most people never saw those.

... but it's not false, it's merely confusing.  ... and the decisions are permanent, since you can't take them back.

I would say that character creation (Barring some method of changing it later) would be a permanent thing.   You're stuck with it.  Well, the decisions made in personal story, you're stuck with those.  Fail to rescue an NPC, you won't see them again. 

It has permanence in the same sense any SRPG does.  (In the parts that are more like an SRPG, of course. :P )

 

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Exactly. There are differing opinions on literally every aspect of everything in human existence lol. So to start a thread basically saying "I don't understand these people's opinions, they must be wrong" is silly.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by eggy08

Wow, just wow. I posted my thing and honestly called your reaction to Aerowyn perfectly. You literally ignore people like him because you assume he's on the hype train when the information is out there for you. I can't even believe you are that ignorant.

 ... why does everybody think poor Aerowyn is a guy?

I hope she doesn't have to worry about that problem in real life. :(

I swear to god, I saw a post a long time back when someone said he/she and he circled HE, though his profile says otherwise. I could be mistaken thou

lol you can go into my post history I have NEVER said either way but my profile gives a hint:)

It was so long ago I didn't want to go searching that far. My bad. I'm sure you've heard it all before anyway since there's no such things as girls in video games. Let's be honest here.

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by eggy08

Wow, just wow. I posted my thing and honestly called your reaction to Aerowyn perfectly. You literally ignore people like him because you assume he's on the hype train when the information is out there for you. I can't even believe you are that ignorant.

 ... why does everybody think poor Aerowyn is a guy?

I hope she doesn't have to worry about that problem in real life. :(

I swear to god, I saw a post a long time back when someone said he/she and he circled HE, though his profile says otherwise. I could be mistaken thou

lol you can go into my post history I have NEVER said either way but my profile gives a hint:)

It was so long ago I didn't want to go searching that far. My bad. I'm sure you've heard it all before anyway since there's no such things as girls in video games. Let's be honest here.

lol yea which is why I don't even correct or care it's the internet afterall

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Originally posted by eggy08

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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Originally posted by eggy08

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Originally posted by Foomerang From Anet's GW2 Manifesto in August 2010: Mike O'Brien:

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  For combat, he said "never seen anything like that". I've seen a lot of combat like this. You countered with "exact combat system". Like and exact are two entirely different things. I'm just going off of what Colin said. Unless you can prove that events never repeat, then there is no permanence in them. If every event only happened once and never repeated, that would be permanent. But they do. They are designed to. Again. This isn't a bash GW2 post. I was trying to get people to understand that hype is open to interpretation.

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Fine, combat system is open for opinion, I'll give you that.

Look at other posts to see the permanence or watch some of Aerowyn's videos. I can't show you personally it because I didn't take screen shots or did videos showing that. And having an event only happen once would be bad mechanics, that form of permanence is not what he meant. He meant that if you fail or if you pass DEs, different scenarios will happen and it happens to NOT ONLY you but the rest of the world for everyone. This holds a lasting effect to people and makes their quests seem more involved than just doing them and that being it.

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It is all open to interpretation. Saying "thats not what he/she meant" is just your opinion and interpretation. There is no right or wrong way. That was my point.

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

Exactly. There are differing opinions on literally every aspect of everything in human existence lol. So to start a thread basically saying "I don't understand these people's opinions, they must be wrong" is silly.

 Okay, okay, we both agree on there being different opinions on things...

... we're past that.  I agreed with that in my original response actually, where I was writing in red.

Of course people have different opinions.

My whole point is that some things aren't opinions, and in this case, what she said isn't a falsehood, it's 100% factual.

There are decisions you make in GW2 that have permanence.  'strue.  Anybody can verify that who's played enough personal story.

You can't say that's false, without being wrong.  You can say it's confusing.  I'll accept that.  I'll even accept 'It's confusing and misleads people who don't understand the proper context, which makes it sound like she's saying something false'

Will not accept 'what she said is false', because that's simply untrue.

Opinions don't get to extend out into the factuality of things. :)

(edit:  I am even willing to agree to 'It's confusing and misleads people who don't understand the proper context, which makes it sound like she's saying something false.  In fact, it's SO confusing, that even fans misunderstand what Ree Soesbee is talking about and attempt to do some spin about permanence vs. persistence, when they're actually on the wrong track and misunderstanding her because it's SO DAMN CONFUSING and they really should release an edited Manifesto where she holds a sign saying 'I only talk about personal story' the whole time)