Originally posted by Ringbus

Originally posted by Wickedjelly 

...and again. For the second time. His reference to subs are the same as any other company mentioning fucking subs. Stop reaching not like you need to. It is not a fair estimate. You got the number from him yourself. Pretty easy for anyone to assume it is between 500 to 600k. Which is abysmal considering the initial sales and the ip plus goodwill.

LOL, ok whatever you want to believe.

 

What a great comeback and dispute. Are you deluded in thinking I'm defending this game? Can't say that I am. Just prone to calling out bullshit regardless the avenue it is coming from.

Anyone that has followed this genre for a bit can figure this out on their own and realize many of the points you gave is exactly why they made the 500k to less than a million remark. Doesn't take a genius to figure it out, Feel free to call the SEC though if you think he is lying about his 500k benchmark.

Originally posted by Warley

First, I'll be honest. I don't play this game nor do I have intentions. But, I don't necessarily want to see it fail either.  I do question  the fact that this game has over 200k 'active' subscriptions.  Here's why:

The game relies heavily on VO and story as its selling point.  From what I've heard, it's pretty good in that area.  However, in other areas (areas that retain and build subscribers), I've heard nothing but bad and negative things.  It seems that many feel that this area is a poor man's version of WoW.

Considering that, and considering some of the things EA has said; 500k subscriptions to be profitable.  Then, combine that with their latest announcements (laying off staff -twice- and going F2P), you know that they are -at least- below the 500k subscription mark.  Then, active paying subscriptions are different than subscriptions.  Ultimately, I think around 200k active paying subscriptions is a fairly accurate number.

Here is the biggest concern I think that SWTOR supporters should have:  If that the subscription numbers were stable at even 200k subscriptions I don't think we'd be hearing about F2P from EA. I really do believe that subscription numbers are falling fast, and EA is predicting that that number will fall even further.

This is the only explanation for F2P.  200k active paying subscriptions equals $3 million a month or $36 million a year, minus operational costs of course.  Even still, that's a substantially high number that any business person would be foolish to mess with.  Especially considering that SWTOR has failed to meet expectations.

Again, I'd be surprised if EA has over 200k active paying subscriptions for SWTOR at this point.

For real? Your first sentence makes this entire post moot...

Originally posted by Slampig

Originally posted by Warley

First, I'll be honest. I don't play this game nor do I have intentions. But, I don't necessarily want to see it fail either.  I do question  the fact that this game has over 200k 'active' subscriptions.  Here's why:

The game relies heavily on VO and story as its selling point.  From what I've heard, it's pretty good in that area.  However, in other areas (areas that retain and build subscribers), I've heard nothing but bad and negative things.  It seems that many feel that this area is a poor man's version of WoW.

Considering that, and considering some of the things EA has said; 500k subscriptions to be profitable.  Then, combine that with their latest announcements (laying off staff -twice- and going F2P), you know that they are -at least- below the 500k subscription mark.  Then, active paying subscriptions are different than subscriptions.  Ultimately, I think around 200k active paying subscriptions is a fairly accurate number.

Here is the biggest concern I think that SWTOR supporters should have:  If that the subscription numbers were stable at even 200k subscriptions I don't think we'd be hearing about F2P from EA. I really do believe that subscription numbers are falling fast, and EA is predicting that that number will fall even further.

This is the only explanation for F2P.  200k active paying subscriptions equals $3 million a month or $36 million a year, minus operational costs of course.  Even still, that's a substantially high number that any business person would be foolish to mess with.  Especially considering that SWTOR has failed to meet expectations.

Again, I'd be surprised if EA has over 200k active paying subscriptions for SWTOR at this point.

For real? Your first sentence makes this entire post moot...

 

I would say it makes him differ from many of the other "pros or cons" posters.  But I don't see why not playing the game would have any impact of his ability to read and interpret what's written and what's said about TOR subscription numbers, because that's what he comment in his post. Not if the game sucks or are great. Sometimes it's an advantage to read the actual post before throwing in one-liners.

Originally posted by Sandbo 

I would say it makes him differ from many of the other "pros or cons" posters.  But I don't see why not playing the game would have any impact of his ability to read and interpret what's written and what's said about TOR subscription numbers, because that's what he comment in his post. Not if the game sucks or are great. Sometimes it's an advantage to read the actual post before throwing in one-liners.

I wholeheartedly agree. However, in this case you pretty much can sum it up from that and not waste your time. Pretty bunk really. Topic should be locked to be honest.

Originally posted by Ringbus

Originally posted by Wickedjelly
They have over 500k. Can't really dispute that unless you're going to say they're lying. 

We've been through this many times before.

No one is disputing that there is some number that adds up to over 500k made up of:

* Active paying subscribers

* 6 month subscription plans that have yet to run out

* Free months and other promotions

* People who have recently bought the game and have the first free month which they count as an 'active subscription'

This thread is about how many active and paying subscribers the game has right now. 150-200k is a fair estimate given the number of servers and reasonable estimates of the number of people playing on those servers.

 

While al that is most likely true, you have to understand the irrationality of the player base you are trying to communitcate with.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=522253

That one Topic in the SWTOR official forums should tell you all yo need to know about any negative remark made about this game. Even when its desperately grasping at a 500k number while in rapid decline it is still somehow better than WOW.

At this point, the actual sub count doesn't really matter anylonger.  With dropping down to 26 servers, EA calling it a "miss", and F2P announced, the number is certainly not what EA/BioWare expected.  In the recent call, they said over 500K but under 1 mil.  EA has full knowledge of all the recurring subs and how many of those that have canceled and waiting on their time to run out.  I have heard that magical 500K drop-dead number used again in an interview here recently so I would imagine that we can assume they have reached under that drop-dead number or they know they are heading in that direction.

What amazes me is that they were given boat-loads of good feedback on what was actualy wrong with their game.  By people who continue to sub and a very long thread, on their forums, of people who listed the top 5 reasons why they were leaving.  Instead of trying to "fix" their game, they chose F2P, and leave the game as-is.  6 weeks also for a "full team" to just do 1 PVP instanced map, or an instanced flashpoint, or even an Ops with 4 bosses? 

It takes about 6 months to develope the F2P model they have posted about?  Basicly, the game stays as-is, some restrictions are developed into it, add a store and some items to sell, and it takes 6 months to just do that?  I seen more development and consistancy in new content from SWG's 2 remaining developers in it's last 2 years.  These guys at BioWare seem to not be able to do anything fast except watch a playerbase bleed down to nothing.

EA got it right, TOR was indeed a "miss".  By internal initial design from the NGE devs, ongoing design criteria, communication from developers to it's playerbase, and the speed in which they can actualy do anything.

Originally posted by AwDiddums

Originally posted by teakbois
I am usually not onboard the using xfire as a tool for popuation judgment bandwagon, but EvE has 892 xfire users and we know that it is somewhere around 375k subs.  SWTOR is at 1353 users.  I think both games probably have a similar age breakdown therefore probably a similar liklihood to use xfire.

I wouldnt put too much stock into Xfire either for your numbers, WoW had 10k players on xfire, yet they have 10million subs, that 1353 would then mean SWTOR has well over 1 million subs, so how can we use Xfire when it's not exactly reliable.

I'd say SWTOR still has 500k subs, the server I've been on has been very populated and had multiple instances up at the same time, I'm actually in Coruscant at the moment and it has 198 players plus another duplicate instance, thats just 1 world, 1 server.

Now I'm back to my companion and hopefully he didnt fail in his archealogy mission.

 

 

The problem with your argument is that you fell for marketing hype and used this information to justify apples comparable to oranges.

Wow has 9.1 million paying players (as of June 30, 2012), but the majority of these players live in China and play on Game Room passes (timecards).  Chinese players live on their own separate internet space, they play on a special Chinese language edition of WoW, and very few speak English.  They sure as heck don't use English software like Xfire.

Blizzard stopped differentiating between the two regions (West vs East) in 2009, because Eastern players were outweighing Western players and it didn't allow enough room to put a good spin on their "subscribers". See www.mmodata.net for graphs on this.

While the last 2 quarters had more declines in Eastern players over Western players, it should be noted that last year during earnings calls for Activision-Blizzard, WoW had "subscription" gains in China, even though WoW suffered over a 1 million subscriber net loss (Spring / Summer / Fall 2011).  In other words, WoW took a tremendous loss to Western subscribers last year, while still making gains in the East.

If this balances out to the ratio of 2009, then there are still more players in the Eastern region than the West.

So say there are 4 million subscribers in the West currently to pool data into Xfire.  Over an even spread with other games, this would base a 10k Xfire value (WoW) at 4 million, and a value of 1350 (SWTOR) at ~ 540K.

Side Note for Math:

10,000 / 4,000,000 = 1,350 / X

X = (1.35) (4,000) / (10)

X = 540k

This is based on theoretical data over an even spread, which is valid, because I have no indication that WoW players are more likely to use Xfire over SWTOR players .. or Eve for that matter, in any particular combination.  There is some error but this would be a good basis for a ballpark result.

540k is "well above" 500k and below 1 million, so EA didn't lie .. although they are still scumbags for even mentioning 1 million. Given 26 servers that no longer reach "full" (~ 4000 players), anywhere close to a million is bullshit .. unless they take advantage of the many dead subs who no longer play, but just wait for their sub to expire.  People who may not even read these forums .. they simply don't give a hoot.

---

Originally posted by Ringbus

---

Originally posted by Wickedjelly  ...and again. For the second time. His reference to subs are the same as any other company mentioning fucking subs. Stop reaching not like you need to. It is not a fair estimate. You got the number from him yourself. Pretty easy for anyone to assume it is between 500 to 600k. Which is abysmal considering the initial sales and the ip plus goodwill.

---

LOL, ok whatever you want to believe.

 

---

It's not a matter of believing, it's a matter of COMMON SENSE. The OP is suggesting that SW:TOR lost more than 1,1 million subscribers in 3 months. That, is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm sorry, but SW:TOR isn't crappy enough to lose so many subscribers in such a small amount of time.

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by AwDiddums

Originally posted by teakbois
I am usually not onboard the using xfire as a tool for popuation judgment bandwagon, but EvE has 892 xfire users and we know that it is somewhere around 375k subs.  SWTOR is at 1353 users.  I think both games probably have a similar age breakdown therefore probably a similar liklihood to use xfire.

I wouldnt put too much stock into Xfire either for your numbers, WoW had 10k players on xfire, yet they have 10million subs, that 1353 would then mean SWTOR has well over 1 million subs, so how can we use Xfire when it's not exactly reliable.

I'd say SWTOR still has 500k subs, the server I've been on has been very populated and had multiple instances up at the same time, I'm actually in Coruscant at the moment and it has 198 players plus another duplicate instance, thats just 1 world, 1 server.

Now I'm back to my companion and hopefully he didnt fail in his archealogy mission.

 

 

The problem with your argument is that you fell for marketing hype and used this information to justify apples comparable to oranges.

 

Wow has 9.1 million paying players (as of June 30, 2012), but the majority of these players live in China and play on Game Room passes (timecards).  Chinese players live on their own separate internet space, they play on a special Chinese language edition of WoW, and very few speak English.  They sure as heck don't use English software like Xfire.

 

Blizzard stopped differentiating between the two regions (West vs East) in 2009, because Eastern players were outweighing Western players and it didn't allow enough room to put a good spin on their "subscribers". See www.mmodata.net for graphs on this.

 

While the last 2 quarters had more declines in Eastern players over Western players, it should be noted that last year during earnings calls for Activision-Blizzard, WoW had "subscription" gains in China, even though WoW suffered over a 1 million subscriber net loss (Spring / Summer / Fall 2011).  In other words, WoW took a tremendous loss to Western subscribers last year, while still making gains in the East.

 

If this balances out to the ratio of 2009, then there are still more players in the Eastern region than the West.

 

So say there are 4 million subscribers in the West currently to pool data into Xfire.  Over an even spread with other games, this would base a 10k Xfire value (WoW) at 4 million, and a value of 1350 (SWTOR) at ~ 540K.

 

This is based on theoretical data over an even spread, which is valid, because I have no indication that WoW players are more likely to use Xfire over SWTOR players .. or Eve for that matter, in any particular combination.  There is some error but this would be a good basis for a ballpark result.

 

540k is "well above" 500k and below 1 million, so EA didn't lie .. although they are still scumbags for even mentioning 1 million. Given 26 servers that no longer reach "full" (~ 4000 players), anywhere close to a million is bullshit .. unless they take advantage of the many dead subs who no longer play, but just wait for their sub to expire.  People who may not even read these forums .. they simply don't give a hoot.

Sorry I should have pointed out I was being sarcastic, I despise Xfire as a guide to subs.

Only bit that wasn't being flippant was me actually going back to my Companion. who did manage a purple drop on his return.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly
They have over 500k. Can't really dispute that unless you're going to say they're lying. Which I doubt due to the obvious ramifications. Now far as where they're at over that figure it is up to interpretation. I would argue it is somewhere between 500 and 600k. Otherwise there would be no reason to to say over 500 but less than a million. Why they went that subjective route should be rather obvious because regardless the reason this game is dropping subs at a rather alarming rate compared to the initial influx.

Bullcrap 500k you new to mmo's a company wont lie. ? LOL

They said servers hold 3k each when game came out i played on them when full was laggy as hell . The number of servers that busy shows they have way less than 500k players .

I never have and never will understand why people need to pretend they are experts and predict numbers they have no information on.  Why is there a need to pound your chest and look like a fool and spout out crap that has no actual facts or logic to base your claim on any game. 

Why I believe this thread and anyother thread about any game population doesnt matter.  The only number that matters is an equation that goes like this.  A+b+c=X

A=You

B=Your guild

C=Your friends list

FYI I no longer play SWTOR but these post on any game are just ignorant and boring.

Originally posted by Gaborik

I never have and never will understand why people need to pretend they are experts and predict numbers they have no information on.  Why is there a need to pound your chest and look like a fool and spout out crap that has no actual facts or logic to base your claim on any game. 

 

Why I believe this thread and anyother thread about any game population doesnt matter.  The only number that matters is an equation that goes like this.  A+b+c=X

 

A=You

B=Your guild

C=Your friends list

 

FYI I no longer play SWTOR but these post on any game are just ignorant and boring.

 

Why did you even join this thread if you want to be ignorant of others doing number crunching?

What you are saying is basically that the population of your town or city is irrelevant because you have everything you need within a reasonable distance.  You have a grocery store, a salon/barber shop and a resteraurant.  What you are saying is that the people trying to conduct a population census are ignorant because you have everything you need and nothing else matters.

Some people are taking an interest in this.  Calling them ignorant only makes you even more ignorant.  If you have fun in your neighrborhood without ever going beyond 1 block from where you live, that is your business.  See where this is going?

Nobody claims to be expects, but through thought and real data, estimations can be gathered.  You don't need to be an expert to make calculated estimations.  Every estimation has a degree of error, which is also discussed.  Step up!

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Gaborik

I never have and never will understand why people need to pretend they are experts and predict numbers they have no information on.  Why is there a need to pound your chest and look like a fool and spout out crap that has no actual facts or logic to base your claim on any game. 

 

Why I believe this thread and anyother thread about any game population doesnt matter.  The only number that matters is an equation that goes like this.  A+b+c=X

 

A=You

B=Your guild

C=Your friends list

 

FYI I no longer play SWTOR but these post on any game are just ignorant and boring.

 

Why did you even join this thread if you want to be ignorant of others doing number crunching?

 

What you are saying is basically that the population of your town or city is irrelevant because you have everything you need within a reasonable distance.  You have a grocery store, a salon/barber shop and a resteraurant.  What you are saying is that the people trying to conduct a population census are ignorant because you have everything you need and nothing else matters.

 

Some people are taking an interest in this.  Calling them ignorant only makes you even more ignorant.  If you have fun in your neighrborhood without ever going beyond 1 block from where you live, that is your business.  See where this is going?

 

Nobody claims to be expects, but through thought and real data, estimations can be gathered.  You don't need to be an expert to make calculated estimations.  Every estimation has a degree of error, which is also discussed.  Step up!

 Your going to compare real life population to a video game?  Now if you want to talk about ignorant that right there takes the cake.  Maybe I should have put D=population of your server, would that have made it easier for you to understand.  A population census is not ignorant that is REAL LIFE, the change in my towns population has REAL LIFE consequences so trying to compare that to what people do on here is also ignorant. 

My point was you have tro!!s (you must be one) and you have people who think they know all (you must be one).  You can use xfire which is not a very good tool to use, you can use other tro!!s post, and can use what ever calculation you want unless you work at or know someone we will never know the true numbers of a lot of games. 

Originally posted by Gaborik

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Gaborik

I never have and never will understand why people need to pretend they are experts and predict numbers they have no information on.  Why is there a need to pound your chest and look like a fool and spout out crap that has no actual facts or logic to base your claim on any game. 

 

Why I believe this thread and anyother thread about any game population doesnt matter.  The only number that matters is an equation that goes like this.  A+b+c=X

 

A=You

B=Your guild

C=Your friends list

 

FYI I no longer play SWTOR but these post on any game are just ignorant and boring.

 

Why did you even join this thread if you want to be ignorant of others doing number crunching?

 

What you are saying is basically that the population of your town or city is irrelevant because you have everything you need within a reasonable distance.  You have a grocery store, a salon/barber shop and a resteraurant.  What you are saying is that the people trying to conduct a population census are ignorant because you have everything you need and nothing else matters.

 

Some people are taking an interest in this.  Calling them ignorant only makes you even more ignorant.  If you have fun in your neighrborhood without ever going beyond 1 block from where you live, that is your business.  See where this is going?

 

Nobody claims to be expects, but through thought and real data, estimations can be gathered.  You don't need to be an expert to make calculated estimations.  Every estimation has a degree of error, which is also discussed.  Step up!

 Your going to compare real life population to a video game?  Now if you want to talk about ignorant that right there takes the cake.  Maybe I should have put D=population of your server, would that have made it easier for you to understand.  A population census is not ignorant that is REAL LIFE, the change in my towns population has REAL LIFE consequences so trying to compare that to what people do on here is also ignorant. 

 

My point was you have tro!!s (you must be one) and you have people who think they know all (you must be one).  You can use xfire which is not a very good tool to use, you can use other tro!!s post, and can use what ever calculation you want unless you work at or know someone we will never know the true numbers of a lot of games. 

Oh OK, so a low population game still gets full funding, just like Pisswater, USA gets as much federal funds as New York City.  Now you are making sense.  Wait ....

Geez, even if I disagreed with you I still wouldn't call you a troll.  Going to name calling only weakens any argument you had.

Nobody is looking for true numbers, just estimates.  If you think a census & the resulting game financials is a waste of time then you are dilusional.  Census directly affects funding with directly affects the quality of life for the remaining or returning players.

Originally posted by Gaborik

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Gaborik

I never have and never will understand why people need to pretend they are experts and predict numbers they have no information on.  Why is there a need to pound your chest and look like a fool and spout out crap that has no actual facts or logic to base your claim on any game. 

 

Why I believe this thread and anyother thread about any game population doesnt matter.  The only number that matters is an equation that goes like this.  A+b+c=X

 

A=You

B=Your guild

C=Your friends list

 

FYI I no longer play SWTOR but these post on any game are just ignorant and boring.

 

Why did you even join this thread if you want to be ignorant of others doing number crunching?

 

What you are saying is basically that the population of your town or city is irrelevant because you have everything you need within a reasonable distance.  You have a grocery store, a salon/barber shop and a resteraurant.  What you are saying is that the people trying to conduct a population census are ignorant because you have everything you need and nothing else matters.

 

Some people are taking an interest in this.  Calling them ignorant only makes you even more ignorant.  If you have fun in your neighrborhood without ever going beyond 1 block from where you live, that is your business.  See where this is going?

 

Nobody claims to be expects, but through thought and real data, estimations can be gathered.  You don't need to be an expert to make calculated estimations.  Every estimation has a degree of error, which is also discussed.  Step up!

 Your going to compare real life population to a video game?  Now if you want to talk about ignorant that right there takes the cake.  Maybe I should have put D=population of your server, would that have made it easier for you to understand.  A population census is not ignorant that is REAL LIFE, the change in my towns population has REAL LIFE consequences so trying to compare that to what people do on here is also ignorant. 

 

My point was you have tro!!s (you must be one) and you have people who think they know all (you must be one).  You can use xfire which is not a very good tool to use, you can use other tro!!s post, and can use what ever calculation you want unless you work at or know someone we will never know the true numbers of a lot of games. 

I will never understand the mentality of above poster (Gaborik).  This is a forum for discussion. It's for opinions both negative and positive.  Sure, if you think the OP is wrong (I'd probably agree on this post with his numbers) then by all means call him out.  You don't care about game population, sure ok, others do - so stay out of the thread please!

Some of these are beautiful:

"Your going to compare real life to a video game"  - well yes, it has real people playing it.

"the change in my towns populations has real life consequences" - and a change in your games overall population also has consequences for said game.  If SWTOR's subs hadn't dropped, you can bet your ass that it wouldn't be going F2P.

"we will never know the true numbers of a lot of games" - Absolutely correct.  Does this mean we aren't allowed to speculate or guess?  As far as I know, nobody here is claiming to be an expert.  It's just a bit of fun. 

Originally posted by Tawn47

Originally posted by Gaborik

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Gaborik

I never have and never will understand why people need to pretend they are experts and predict numbers they have no information on.  Why is there a need to pound your chest and look like a fool and spout out crap that has no actual facts or logic to base your claim on any game. 

 

Why I believe this thread and anyother thread about any game population doesnt matter.  The only number that matters is an equation that goes like this.  A+b+c=X

 

A=You

B=Your guild

C=Your friends list

 

FYI I no longer play SWTOR but these post on any game are just ignorant and boring.

 

Why did you even join this thread if you want to be ignorant of others doing number crunching?

 

What you are saying is basically that the population of your town or city is irrelevant because you have everything you need within a reasonable distance.  You have a grocery store, a salon/barber shop and a resteraurant.  What you are saying is that the people trying to conduct a population census are ignorant because you have everything you need and nothing else matters.

 

Some people are taking an interest in this.  Calling them ignorant only makes you even more ignorant.  If you have fun in your neighrborhood without ever going beyond 1 block from where you live, that is your business.  See where this is going?

 

Nobody claims to be expects, but through thought and real data, estimations can be gathered.  You don't need to be an expert to make calculated estimations.  Every estimation has a degree of error, which is also discussed.  Step up!

 Your going to compare real life population to a video game?  Now if you want to talk about ignorant that right there takes the cake.  Maybe I should have put D=population of your server, would that have made it easier for you to understand.  A population census is not ignorant that is REAL LIFE, the change in my towns population has REAL LIFE consequences so trying to compare that to what people do on here is also ignorant. 

 

My point was you have tro!!s (you must be one) and you have people who think they know all (you must be one).  You can use xfire which is not a very good tool to use, you can use other tro!!s post, and can use what ever calculation you want unless you work at or know someone we will never know the true numbers of a lot of games. 

I will never understand the mentality of above poster (Gaborik).  This is a forum for discussion. It's for opinions both negative and positive.  Sure, if you think the OP is wrong (I'd probably agree on this post with his numbers) then by all means call him out.  You don't care about game population, sure ok, others do - so stay out of the thread please!

Some of these are beautiful:

"Your going to compare real life to a video game"  - well yes, it has real people playing it.

"the change in my towns populations has real life consequences" - and a change in your games overall population also has consequences for said game.  If SWTOR's subs hadn't dropped, you can bet your ass that it wouldn't be going F2P.

"we will never know the true numbers of a lot of games" - Absolutely correct.  Does this mean we aren't allowed to speculate or guess?  As far as I know, nobody here is claiming to be an expert.  It's just a bit of fun. 

 

 Hey its all good you guys can sit and try compare a real life population census to a video game if that makes you feel better.  I never once said the population of a game does or does not effect the game its self. 

Why dont you look back at all the post about game "x" has this many people so it failed.  Your going to call a game a failure based on speculation and guessing? 

Well I would agree and disagree with you about SWTOR f2p model.  I think f2p was always in the cards, like almost all new MMOs they go f2p its the new business model (im speculated or guessing at that).  LOTRO,AOC, VANGUARD all went f2p to name of few. 

Swtor has 12 north american and 11 european servers with a very healthy population, and 3 asia-pacific servers with a weak population. The assumption that swtor would be below 200k would mean an average of 8k subscribers for each server, which is way too low.

Its more likely that each server has around 20-25k subscribers, which would bring the total number somewhere between 500-700k players.

Originally posted by Gaborik

 I think f2p was always in the cards, like almost all new MMOs they go f2p its the new business model (im speculated or guessing at that).  LOTRO,AOC, VANGUARD all went f2p to name of few. 

They went ftp for lack of any other choice because LOTR, AOC and Vanguard, are all failures.

FTP was not the business model of those games, those games went ftp because the business model failed. Indeed the true ftp wow clones like Allods have a lot more retention value because they really did have that business model, for the life of me, I cannot see a reason to play another wow clone besides Allods or RIFT.

Originally posted by Gaborik

Well I would agree and disagree with you about SWTOR f2p model.  I think f2p was always in the cards, like almost all new MMOs ...

Such a tasty comment.

Ref:

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/bioware-mmo-project/1225612p1.html

September 27, 2011

Statement by Bioware Cofounder Myzyka:
 

Zeschuk: "The free-to-play people can't invest to the level we can invest, and can't create something of the size and scale of something we can create."

January 23, 2012

Ohlen: "We felt, and we still feel, that there is a place for subscription-based games and if you're going to build a subscription-based game it's got to be huge in scope. People have to feel that it's worth paying a subscription fee every month, so the scope of the game has to be much bigger than the free-to-play games."

June 12, 2012

Bioware announces the upcoming release of Ultima Forever, a free to play, cross-platform, action RPG set in Ultima IV universe.

(Had to throw that in for the WTF factor.  Drink to the once great Ultima franchise.  Thanks Richard Garriott.).  Heres a nice video showing the fate of Lord British at the hands of EA.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Mlz6Nrwe8, curtosy Ultima 3!

July 14, 2012

SWTOR Lead Designer Emmanuel Lusinchi acknowledges to GamesTM that SWTOR could be free-to-play before the year is out.

July 31, 2012

Jeff Hickman, executive producer of SWTOR, releases a statement confirming the upcoming shift to free-to-play.

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F2p Always in the cards?  Nice try.  This game is another retrofitted P2P game that didn't make the grade and converted to F2P.