|54 posts found|
OP 8/17/12 5:31:25 AM#1
Been watching this game since before it's release and just could not quite buy it as the majority still seems to deem it not quite ready for prime time.
Now, I'm a veteran of MANY mmo's, in fact, I'd say most EVERY major title. Currently still playing Vanguard, Rift, Allods, RoM, forsaken world.....You get the idea.....I love the genre!
Few days ago a gaming buddy coerced me into trying Minecraft, and had to drag me into it, kicking and screaming! Much to my amazement , i LOVE the concept.
But I need a bit more.......cube graphics, even with the texture packs, just don't quite make the grade.....
Xyson seems to be a lot like Minecraft.
So my question is, simply, has anyone played both? And, can you give me an opinion as to which one is currently more fun?
Xyson seems to have UNLIMITED potential.......but from my reads.......is nowhere near ready?
Thought and opinions, please?
8/17/12 2:28:04 PM#2
I've played both. I've also played crafting centric sandboxes, like SWG and ATITD in the past -- absolutely love 'em.
Minecraft is a fun game. You start with nothing, build a few simple tools, set up your base, further your technology, and eventually just free-build fun stuff. The tech and buildings are usually meaningful -- a diamond pickaxe is MUCH better than a wooden pickaxe; a shelter is necessary; redstone circuits can be useful. There are options to bypass the actual progression and resource gathering game and play in creative-mode if all you feel like doing is building an epic structure. There are also options for online vs and coop play since the servers are highly customizble. It is a sandbox.
Xsyon is not a fun game. You start with nothing, and will spend hours and days to build a few simple tools and set up your base. You will be killed repeatadly by animals and zombies while you do this, since you have no way to defend yourself. Once you build walls, the architecture game is done, unless you want to spend hours and days gathering materials to build completely useless structures. Instead of exploring the world or digging mines for resources, you will be walking across terrain poorly-skinned to look like a junk pile and tapping your "Scavenge" button, then after a 10 second progress bar, you get a random item usually completely useless to you. Specific item gathering is even worse -- you walk to "grass" terrain, start the 10 second progress bar, and then you recieve one unit of grass. Players can work together to hunt hard monsters, but there is no incentives since high-end gear is only slightly better than low-end gear. Players can work together to build cool looking tribe areas, but they do nothing. Calling this is a sandbox would be silly.
In the above two paragraphs, I tried to draw some comparisons between the two games on actual mechanics, but it's really being too kind to Xsyon and doesnt speak to the actual experience of playing the game. This is like comparing apples and oranges.
Minecraft is a well-thought out, well-coded, and well-maintained game. It appears to have been designed with gameplay in mind. Progression through the early systems, though simple, is fun and rewarding. Eventually you encounter the games more complex systems: farming, animals, redstone, pistons, etc., and you want to explore these because they're not only interesting, but useful.
Xsyon is poorly thought out, is coded terribly, and has been limping through development worse than any game I've ever seen. It appears to have been designed with a concept in mind, and gameplay is just the result of how they coded that concept. Character creation demands that you spend time out-of-game researching through third-party forum posts how the game works, since the stats you choose here will GREATLY affect how the game plays and what you can do in the game. That said, this is not an intelligent decision you're making here, you just have to create your character without gimping it (which is easy to do). Early game progression is the worst grind I've ever experienced. In short, it involves a lot of: death to wildlife while gathering, progress bars, and inventory managment, since you will be picking up random items and receiving hundreds of useless items while you grind crafting. There are no more complex systems in Xsyon.
Xsyon's individual systems are really bad, but when viewed as a whole, it's just nonsense. It looks and feels like hundreds of developers worked independantly, then just stitched it together. Keep in mind, this is an extremely small dev team working on Xsyon. It SHOULD be an extremely cohesive game for that reason, but it's not, it's the exact opposite.
The problems with Xsyon's gameplay are HUGE, but the problems with Xsyon as a game, as a product, are far worse. In short, the lead developer is not capable of developing this game. He seems to develop completely blind, which turned out to be true since he proudly announced just recently that he has been playing his own game. He doesn't understand the complexities of his own game (ex. every creature is global, yet he is frustrated that he recieves "conflicting feedback" on the difficulty of creatures -- he doesn't understand that this is because new players and veterans are interacting with the same creatures, despite this being pointed out numerous times). His priorities are completely dependant on what he feels like doing, and not at all what is needed for the game -- he's just plain out-of-touch (Ex. A recent answer in his Q&A: "I'm sorry that we had to switch gears and focus on our website rather than the crafting update. It wasn't what we planned. This was highly recommended by the ad agency we're working with and it needs to be done." and "Regarding the number of players, the main problem right now is that we don't get enough exposure. Our coming advertisements should solve that"). Finally, he doesn't even realize he's doing a bad job (Ex. "We do our best. In my opinion the game is constantly improving. With each round of development we try to balance adding new features with improving current features and optimizing the client and server. Many small improvements go forgotten shortly after we release them, but the game is definitely far improved from a year ago in all respects").
Xsyon has some interesting core-concepts, but make no mistake about it, the game is an absolutely atrocity. Updates are not "patches", only more garbage to add to the existing uncohesive pile. If any game needs to be left to die, it is Xsyon.
OP 8/17/12 5:53:41 PM#3
Exactly what I was looking for! Thank the gaming godz you were kind enough to give me such a comprehensive reply. You must be a professional reviewer....Very articulate answer.
Appears I'll be safely in GW2 in just bout a week......
Tho, I must say.....Mindcraft has reinvigorated my need/desire to find that VERY ( in fact - TOTALLY) elusive crafting/sandbox. And I think i have tried then ALL!
Thank you again......just a wonderful post.
I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!
8/17/12 6:06:57 PM#4
go to planetminecraft.com and look up a heroes server. It adds classes and RPG skills to the game. Three of the most popular are Aethary's Ascended, Herocraft, and Vindicraft.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
OP 8/18/12 4:19:53 AM#5
Now thats VERY interesting.....perchance I REALLY scoffed at minecraft WAY to soon........
Not for nothing, but after 20+ years of gaming AND being of senior vintage......YA THINK I'd know better!
Thank you as well my friend.....Ima gonna check this out this very day.....
You may have created yet another demon in me!
But I owe ya for it!
OP 8/19/12 7:22:08 AM#6
Okay.....I've done a lil more homework, tho it is painfully apparent I have yet MUCH more to do......
I'm literally AMAZED at how this lil gem could have evaded my ever watchful eyes for so long.....perhaps cuz it's not a true MMO?
The more I read......the more I want to read more and begin to understand!
One more favor?
At 64 seasons, PVP is not for me......Can you suggest any RPG (hero?) servers that are NOT PVP?
The server list is endless........I so prefer the words of an experienced player.
Thank in advance!
Im sitting here wanting to try them ALL!
8/20/12 5:33:50 AM#7
Mirokata, I started playing Xsyon 2 months ago and have been checking out lots of forums about the game. You really have a chip on your shoulder about this game. Every time someone talks about Xsyon you pop up and spread lies about the game. I cannot believe how someone could be so bitter about a game that they would take time out of their day to troll the forums and slag it off to people who have no idea that you are driven by some manic passion, people who will actually believe you because they haven't checked out the game for themselves. On the face of it your posts seem informed and reasonable, but having read many of them and played the game myself I see that they are full of crazy talk, purposeful inaccuracies and that you are obsessed with spreading hate, seriously, you need help to get past this.
Xsyon has issues, yes, much like any other game I have played that has been worth my time (the crashfest that was Fallaout NW, Oblivion, etc) I'd rather take an ambitious game that tries to do something new and fresh over another mindless clone that does nothing but does it perfectly. Xsyon is fun, if you have some imagination and initiative of your own.
If you want everything handed to you and no challenge, it is not for you. Why don't you just accept that and say ok, not for me, I didn't like it, I wouldn't recommend it. Advise others against it, if you will. That is fine. But to go out of your way to make people not try it, to try to ruin the experience for people who actually enjoy it, and right out lie, that is pathetic.
You seem to have had a lot of trouble getting on in the Xsyon world. You blame the game for this. That is childish. s a new player I had the sense to try to learn how the game worked so I could manage, it worked like a charm. I have died a few times, but I have had lots of fun.
I watched you blast a player when they rightfully pointed out that yes revenants are hard to fight but you could always just outrun them. If you have actually played the game since revenants and you couldn't outrun them then you suck at games, sorry. I have never ever been outrun by a revenant, they are slow and don't follow you very far.
You say you had to be teleported out of stuck situations several times every play session. I have played the game daily for two months and this has not happened to me, not once. You either made this up, or it was a bug that was fixed ages ago, either way it is not relevant now.
You say there is no purpose in building structures, well what purpose do you need? What is the purpose of doing anything? Because it is fun. Because it can be done. What is the Eiffel tower for? WHY would someone build Burj Khalifa? Do you need someone to tell you why to breathe, as well? If you didn't enjoy it that is ok, but would you just stop making false claims please.
You bought a small sandbox indie game that is in development and evolving, with a playerbase that is small enough that a nasty meanspirited player will stick out and be ostracized by the community. You should have bought a big name themepark game where there is no need to take incentive or cooperate with others and where trolling goes by unnoticed because there are millions of players and when people get sick of you you just move on. There are plenty of games like that, why not frequent their boards instead.
8/20/12 4:12:05 PM#8
Originally posted by Penintime
8/21/12 4:41:45 AM#9
You are welcome to your opinion, I'm just pointing out that you are misrepresenting the game by lying about it, which you frankly do not have the right to do. I didn't put words in your mouth, they were your words.
If it was a case of "not liking the game" you would just post "it sucks, don't buy it, here is why:" and name features that you didn't like. Actual features of the game. But what you are doing is more like a witchhunt where you make stuff up and slander the developers by accusing them of running a scam, talking about their personal lives, continuing to go on about bugs that have been long fixed, amongst other things. These are all things I have read in your (very numerous) posts about Xsyon on several forums.
If I played a game, say a game called "Cauldron of Evil 2" a first person shooter with crappy graphics and a cheezy anime style I didn't like, I found it boring. If I went online and warned other people not to buy it and said "the graphics are terrible and there is no storyline to speak of, combat is shallow and the creatures look like moomins" that would be fair enough.
If instead I decided to dedicate my time to traverse the web looking for serious discussions about the game where I could insert myself at every opportunity and say stuff like "the developer is a loser and has a russian wife, so the whole game is just an excuse to scam people out of money so he can afford to visit russia" and then to sound more convincing I invented some issues I had with gameplay "I spent the first five in game days glitching through monsters and getting killed by windmills " that would just be wrong. And then when people who actually play the game point out that noone else has had this glitch and that there are no windmills in the game so it is slightly dubious how they could kill me, I'd just reply "wow, so the game has no windmills, am I supposed to be impressed?" I'd not be surprised that people got a bit sick of me, because frankly it is called trolling.
The point of running away from revenants is that you then don't have to take them on unless you want to. It is handy. You claimed that it was impossible, and that seemed to be a big deal since you took that to mean that the game sucks. Now you claim that running from revenants is not a useful feature? Well then are you still going to claim that it cannot be done and complain about it.
You have made over 40 posts just on this forum about Xsyon, every one of them full of contempt for the players and developers. And I have seen you on the Xsyon board where you still insert yourself and try to bring the mood down, I have seen you on several other forums as well. Maybe it is time to let it go. Maybe leave Xsyon for the people who enjoy it? Does it hurt you to know that I am about to log on now and enjoy myself playing this game? I'll have fun, building my estate exactly how I want it, casually chat to my neighbors, maybe help them with their stuff or go hunting a mutant together. Maybe go visit a friend in a far off zone to see how far they have gotten with their ambitious building project. We'll see what I do today. It is up to me, after all.
8/21/12 2:56:12 PM#10
Xsyon is a bad game. It sucks. Here is why: the graphics are terrible and there is no storyline to speak of, combat is shallow and the creatures look like moomins.
In all seriousness OP: don't touch this game with a 100,000-foot pole.
8/21/12 3:19:15 PM#11
You do realize the title of this thread is Xsyon and Minecraft, right? Not Xsyon and Mirokata?
You: "You're wrong and you're lying and you're MEAN!!1". This is seriously getting old. This has been going on since I've been posting on the subject, and it's clear to all that the ones flailing vague emotional arguments around are the ones who are "trolling".
You like to bring up a lot of random points from the 2+ years I've been posting on this subject, some of which you have absolutely no context on since you just started playing the game. If you want to contest those points, please do so in their original thread and provide something of substance to refute them besides "You're LYING!".
I've posted plenty on "actual features of the game" (you don't seem to contest those), but there aren't that many features in the game, and there are a lot of external issues that affect this game. I'll briefly respond to a few your brought up:
On the topic of Jordi's russian wife: Jordi: "During the main development years of Xsyon I made two trips per year on average. This past year I made more trips, but for personal reasons (engagement, got married, and dealing with my wife's immigration)." "Having our team in Russia and a few trips back and forth has been the least of my worries. The biggest issue has been the lack of funds to deal with the hurdles that have come our way.." I think this speaks for itself... Mixing business with pleasure, blissfully refusing to reinvest in a project desperately in need of investment... these things speak to his ability to carry this project. I know how I'd feel if the boss of our struggling company kept flying in to our country just to court a girl and move her back home, all while telling us the business is low on funds.
On the topic of fleeing from zombies: What I actually said: "Oh, and if you happened to make a character with less than optimal agility (GREATLY affects speed) and strength (GREATLY affects max encumberance), or maybe you want to carry something that slows you down, like, oh I dont know... a cart... well then good luck getting away from them [zombies]".
Go ahead and enjoy the game! Bring back something to show these interested folks, like videos, or pictures, or stories. They'd probably love to hear something of substance from the supporting side, instead of the supporting side accusing the opposing side of lying.
8/21/12 3:29:06 PM#12
Mirokata's view does seem biased, but its mostly based on reality. I will add a statement here saying I also was watching Xsyon pre-release, bought it pre-release and played it during release and for a month or two after (while they fixed stuff constantly and kept clearing the world over and over).
Minecraft is a gem in comparison and only rarely will you run into issues. Not only that but Xsyon is quite limited in scope of what you can do in comparison. Here is an example... .In Xsyon you can alter the terrain but only to a pre-determined minimum-maximum (maybe 10 feet or so). In Minecraft you are "almost" completely unrestricted in this respect, you can dig down hundreds of feet, or create massive towers hundreds of feet tall, Xsyon not so much.
Xsyon uses a skill/stat based system meaning there is no way to avoid "the grind". Meanwhile minecraft is on a "find it use it" system meaning if you are lucky and find some resources early you can use it asap instead of grinding away to learn the recipes to use it.
Xsyon is OK, but nowhere near as good as Minecraft if going head to head (as you no doubt have seen yourself how amazing such an open game can be). The $40 purchase price and $15 a month sub for Xsyon keeps most people away who want to try the game, and its unfortunate.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
OP 8/21/12 4:13:05 PM#13
Thanks! Tho i started a bit of a firestorm here, I'm not sorry i did. I started following this game long before it even went live and it just looked SOOOO good. After playing 50+ mmo's THIS was gonna be the one..........
Or, so it seems......NOT.
It seems most EVERY MMO being released these days just stinks. Like how could they spend 200 million for SWTOR and give us what they did? How dumb are the dev's these days?
Back to my original comment on Mindcraft. As i said I really was dragged into it. And ya know.....I'm now having a whole lotta fun in it. Especially so if ya leave the solo play and get into some of the multiplay servers.
It sure does look like what Xyson was SUPPOSED to be........Yea, the graphics are poor but the gameplay is FUN.
For 30 years now I've been playing pretty much MMO's and strategy games. Looking for that elusive feeling I got on my first trip thru Norath. And, as incredible as it sounds.......Minecraft has come closer than any MMO in recent memory.
4 days to GW2........Is it our last, greatest hope? Well soon see!
8/21/12 4:20:44 PM#14
The game is a little "too indie" for alot of people. My whole time with the game was pretty enjoyable. Joined up with a pretty large tribe and had fun socializing, hunting pkers that attacked fellow tribe members cutting down trees away from tribe lands so we did not deplete our own, (when they lag did not hinder us getting kills anyway), and just relaxing while fishing and crafting with others. Shame it just is not that fleshed out and had a larger cashflow. It could have been one of the best sandboxes out. Even rivaling EVE.
8/21/12 5:00:40 PM#15
Originally posted by Penintime
I don't fall into any of those brackets you just listed for Mirokata, yet I agree with what he said. I also see NO lying at all whatsoever. I do see him expressing some opinions some I dont agree with most I do.
You also have to realize when he played. Like the "stuck" issue. You know that /unstuck wasnt always in the game right? So something where you no longer get stuck and are using the /unstuck command. He had to wait hours for a guide to finally log in and help him. Which also right now you can STILL get stuck, Ive had people stuck in my tribe and had to wait days for a guide to log on to get them out.
I have the largest tribe in the game. We have won awards for building the most advanced tribe in the game. Saying I lack in that are would be just flat out wrong, and I still agree with Mirokata about there is no WHY to it.
You sound like a typical fanboi, and your 2 months of play will soon wane with reasons much like my own and others. There is a major reason why only 5 to 20 people are logged in Xsyon right now. I'm sure it has nothing to do with all of them are lacking.
Minecraft vs Xsyon. I feel they are very different games. Xsyon is more of an MMO than Minecraft by far. Minecraft is more of a building game, and it feels very old and lack luster to me.
Ive played minecraft for about 50ish hours only. I wouldnt play it again unless my 8 year old son wanted help or something. The game is made for casuals that want to piddle around building with blocks and young (very young) kids.
Xsyon's graphics are not bad when you compare them to other MMO Sandbox games. Its more of the overall gameplay that is Xsyon's issues IMO.
If you like building. Either Xsyon or Minecraft is good. If you want an MMO and build Xsyon is better. If you want better rounded game play Minecraft is better.
OP 8/21/12 6:27:14 PM#16
Very nice post MrDDT......
And ya know, i felt the same way bout M/C UNTIL I started exploring the multiplayer servers......It's a whole different game with the mods they have........
If anyone ever wants a REAL strong building/crafting game.....give it a go. we always talk bout SWG, Rysom, EQ2 and LoTRO for crafters. Ima thinking MC should be thrown into that conversation........crafting.....farming.....breeding......the game gets VERY deep very quickly on a multiplayer server. Heck they even throw in classes!
8/22/12 1:05:52 AM#17
Originally posted by illmaculate
Yeah, that is fair enough. I think I have made it pretty clear that I don't think Xsyon is perfect or that I dislike the fact that Mirokata doesn't like it, even that he will "warn" people about it. It is how he does it. I frankly think it is problematic that he continues to defend his statements about Xsyon being a scam (which is a serious and slanderous allegation) and talk about the devs private lives.
MrDDT, I have seen you in game and I respect your opinion. You are critical about the game a lot of the time, but it has always seemed to me that it comes from you actually wanting the game to improve because you want what is best for the game. Mirokata however dislikes the game and does not seem to want it to get better, he sounds like he wants it to be as bad as it was when he played so he can bitch about it. When you argue that certain things have improved, he will not accept it. It irks me that he is trying to ruin it for those of us who like it by making people not try it for themselves and by going out of his way to do so. I read his posts before I tried Xsyon and thought, no way I'm paying for this. So I started playing wurm instead, and couldn't get into it. Minecraft was not for me either. Then I saw some of Saintbob's videos and happened to have a little cash so I figured I would roll the dice. I'm glad I did, and that is why I get annoyed about this guy. I am a new player, but I have played enough that I know that many of the things Mirokata said just didn't check out. Maybe they did in the past, but then why not believe current players when they tell you things have changed.
I may be a fanboi in that I really enjoy the game and I have a hard time letting people kick those who are down. It also comes down to a question of attitude. I have no problem paying the money because I feel I am getting my 15 dollars worth of entertainment out of it and because I know what it is like to try and create something with small resources. The devs are doing a lot tweaking stuff and listening to feedback. Since I started a great deal has changed, and there is more coming up.
With free trials coming up, hopefully people will at least try it.
8/22/12 2:28:01 AM#18
Originally posted by Penintime
8/22/12 4:55:35 AM#19
I read you scam thread, it is the whole reason I feel you are out of line. It proves you are biased and bitter, almost like this is personal to you, which you seem not to be aware of yourself.
Look up what a scam is. You may feel you were sold a crappy product, that is not a scam, you may feel it costs too much , that is not a scam. I have bought CD's by formerly great artists where I listened and thought, shit, this is just a piss-take. That is not a scam. A scam is a criminal fraudulent scheme. Accusing someone of that is not something you should throw around, it is irresponsible to do so.
It is a small company, if you don't want to deal with the consequences of that, don't - deal with the giants instead. I have worked in small businesses and I know that if someone gets ill or something happens, it immediately shows in production. It is the nature of the beast, but some people don't care - it is about attitude. And going by yours, you should stick to dealing with the big developers.
I really like the vision for this game, as long as I have fun with it I feel I am getting my money's worth. They seem to be making the best of what resources they have, but there is a small playerbase and it is a vicious circle of trying to make more money to be able to do more to the game to make it better so you get more players and more money. It is rather a different situation to what is thee norm in the gaming world, where a big company has the luxury of making a clone mmo F2P, get lots of players who pay to win, makes a lot of money and then stop adding to it and let it die slowly while they work on the next one.
If you wanted Xsyon to be good you would critizise it from a different place, you'd be constructive and relevant.
Anyway, I can't make you be respectful or reasonable.
OP 8/22/12 4:56:35 AM#20
First to BUY a game these days AND charge a sub fee......when it's not ready......what are they thinking? Our player base is SUCH a fickle lot........We will try a game ONCE and if we don't like it......we NEVER return. Will devs EVER learn? There are WAY to many options these days.......FTP's spawning, it seems, daily! Folks today simply do NOT have the patience, or the TIME, to support a "Work in Progress".
Second.....I REALLY get upset when folks criticize a monthly sub fee. I mean come on......Where can we go for $15.00 and get a months entertainment? A 12 pack of Pepsi these days is $6.00 for gods sake! Take the wify to a movie.....$25.00 easy and ya get 2 hours. It's NOT the sub fee.....its the very simple fact that, apparently, the game is not close to ready.......and todays market will NOT accept that.
It really is that simple. I worked in a service industry all my life. Most of my career I lived by the rule.....UNDER promise and OVER deliver. Thats what will obtain and retain a player base. Once you treat a customer poorly.....you have to wok 10 times harder to get them back......