Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by kantseeme

But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way theamparks are.

Ah yes, right, like World of Warcraft right? Or hell, even Lord of the Rings Online, on a smaller scale. I could find more examples but I can't be bothered to research more numbers.

"your way the theme parks are" is definitely not "the way theme parks are". Your way is the way bad theme parks are. And no sandbox came even remotely close to the success of most theme parks, too... if that isn't a hint, then I dunno what a hint is.

It's the way all themeparks have been, except the two you mentioned.

WoW is an outlier in all regards so it's not relavent.

And LotRO lost the vast majority of its user base in beta and alpha after it changed from Middle Earth Onlien to LotRO, so the public never saw the huge drop off.

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by kantseeme

But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way theamparks are.

Ah yes, right, like World of Warcraft right? Or hell, even Lord of the Rings Online, on a smaller scale. I could find more examples but I can't be bothered to research more numbers.

"your way the theme parks are" is definitely not "the way theme parks are". Your way is the way bad theme parks are. And no sandbox came even remotely close to the success of most theme parks, too... if that isn't a hint, then I dunno what a hint is.

Meh just leave him be...

I dont get the mentallity some "sanboxers" have (notice that the quotes arent accidentally put). I like both sandbox and themeparks. Hell i still play on "old school UO" based private server from time to time.

EDIT: the point is that open mind seems so hard to achieve.

How come people who don't like WoW clones get called "sandboxers"? You realize that not all MMOs were themeparks that weren't sandbox, right? In fact, all the MMOs before WoW weren't sandboxes. Themepark is largely an invented politically correct term for the WoW clone.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by kantseeme

But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way theamparks are.

Ah yes, right, like World of Warcraft right? Or hell, even Lord of the Rings Online, on a smaller scale. I could find more examples but I can't be bothered to research more numbers.

"your way the theme parks are" is definitely not "the way theme parks are". Your way is the way bad theme parks are. And no sandbox came even remotely close to the success of most theme parks, too... if that isn't a hint, then I dunno what a hint is.

Argure samantics why dont you. Ok then let me change it so those of you soe that its up to your standereds.

" But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way A VAST MAJORITY of theamparks are."

Is that better?

And a hint at what? What measures susscess? Id love to know.

Originally posted by kantseeme

And a hint at what? What measures susscess? Id love to know.

Are you suggesting only "themeparks" have this massive drop in retention?

What exactly are you inferring?

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by kantseeme

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Originally posted by dzoni87

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Originally posted by kantseeme Will check back with you all on oct 25th. See how everyone is doin then LOL.

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Same could be said for ArcheAge 2 months after release. And the point is?

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The point is AA isent your typical theampark like GW2 IS. So try again.

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Neither game is a 'typical' theme park. Everyone will watching both games two months after release to see how they are doing. This is a lame argument, even for the MMORPG forums.

 

Your right it is a lame argument, For those that are trying to argue about it. All i did was make a statement and then someone jumped on abut AA. Mine was based on GW2 being a Theampark game and the way the market has been treating them. Wasent trying to argue anything.

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by kantseeme

But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way theamparks are.

Ah yes, right, like World of Warcraft right? Or hell, even Lord of the Rings Online, on a smaller scale. I could find more examples but I can't be bothered to research more numbers.

"your way the theme parks are" is definitely not "the way theme parks are". Your way is the way bad theme parks are. And no sandbox came even remotely close to the success of most theme parks, too... if that isn't a hint, then I dunno what a hint is.

Meh just leave him be...

I dont get the mentallity some "sanboxers" have (notice that the quotes arent accidentally put). I like both sandbox and themeparks. Hell i still play on "old school UO" based private server from time to time.

EDIT: the point is that open mind seems so hard to achieve.

Has nothing to do with open minds. It has to do with current MMO trends.

This isent a HATE post about GW2 so dont treat it as one.

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by kantseeme
Will check back with you all on oct 25th. See how everyone is doin then LOL.

Same could be said for ArcheAge 2 months after release.

And the point is?

The point is AA isent your typical theampark like GW2 IS. So try again.

Some like Themeparks, some like Sandboxes...

Some like GW2, some like WoW...

Some like Coke, some like Orange juice...

AA can fail or succeed 2 months after release, as well as can GW2... 

Still dont get it.

What dont you get. You just said it.

Im not talking about peoples likes or dislikes. Im talking about peoples attention span.

Ofcoruse AA can fail 2 months after launch. Any game can. I never said anything to the contrary did i.

I never brought up AA. Some GW2 fanboi did. Where not talking about sanbox games here. were talking about Theamparks.

 

  If i can understand you correctly, you want to point that themeparks get old pretty quickly so they wont draw attention anymore after 2 months... According to that logic, WoW would be dead a long time ago by now... 

  The thing is: no sub-genre can determine a game's success or popularity. Sub-genres are more the matter of taste than success. You got a Darkfall for brightest example as the newer sandbox. Where is that game now? DF had a bunch of things that signed the doom of that game. If you want a succesfull and popular game, you need to have done it right and perfect (well as near to perfect as it can be). Be it sandbox, or themepark or themebox or whatever.

  Fun games will last. Boring and uninspiring games wont. And sorry for derailing the thread.

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by kantseeme

But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way theamparks are.

Ah yes, right, like World of Warcraft right? Or hell, even Lord of the Rings Online, on a smaller scale. I could find more examples but I can't be bothered to research more numbers.

"your way the theme parks are" is definitely not "the way theme parks are". Your way is the way bad theme parks are. And no sandbox came even remotely close to the success of most theme parks, too... if that isn't a hint, then I dunno what a hint is.

Argure samantics why dont you. Ok then let me change it so those of you soe that its up to your standereds.

 

" But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way A VAST MAJORITY of theamparks are."

 

Is that better?

 

And a hint at what? What measures susscess? Id love to know.

Just a suggestion but maybe fun measures success? its probably a better measure than subscriber retention. I think GW 2 is fun to play, irrelevant of how long that lasts I'd say that one weekend in Tyria has probably been more fun than every other game in the genre I've played.

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by kantseeme

But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way theamparks are.

Ah yes, right, like World of Warcraft right? Or hell, even Lord of the Rings Online, on a smaller scale. I could find more examples but I can't be bothered to research more numbers.

"your way the theme parks are" is definitely not "the way theme parks are". Your way is the way bad theme parks are. And no sandbox came even remotely close to the success of most theme parks, too... if that isn't a hint, then I dunno what a hint is.

Argure samantics why dont you. Ok then let me change it so those of you soe that its up to your standereds.

" But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way A VAST MAJORITY of theamparks are."

You are still wrong, and it has nothing to do with semantics, but with reality. That vast majority of AAA Theme Parks last way beyond those 30 days you mention in your first quoted post before their population drops. Yeah, even supposed "failures" like SW:TOR. I'm not even sure real failures like Age of Conan had a population drop that early.

Your first post makes it believe that that supposed "vaste majority" of yours just plays those games during the 30 "free" days coming with the box and quit. I disagree with that, it's not that fast, at least not for that "vast majority".

If you want to make generalizations, you better get them right. Get real, theme parks remains the most popular MMORPG genre, and have been so since Everquest. The two only successful sandboxes have been UO and EvE.

And don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a new, good sandbox MMORPG to play. But I'm not holding my breath for now.

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by Pandamin

Originally posted by kantseeme

And a hint at what? What measures susscess? Id love to know.

Are you suggesting only "themeparks" have this massive drop in retention?

 

What exactly are you inferring?

Answering questions with questions? Are you a republican?

First off you know what im refering to. Dont be a jerk

Second. Im not suggesting anything. Just making note of the current market and now its treating its Theamparks. Nothing more.

Wow man take it easy it was an honest question.

If you want to be clear then don't speak in riddles

Sensibility is often lost on your region of the world.

Because clearly you are not able to see when people are just calmly asking questions.

And in case you haven't figured it out by now, your entire retention vs themepark spiel is wrong.

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by kantseeme

But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way theamparks are.

Ah yes, right, like World of Warcraft right? Or hell, even Lord of the Rings Online, on a smaller scale. I could find more examples but I can't be bothered to research more numbers.

"your way the theme parks are" is definitely not "the way theme parks are". Your way is the way bad theme parks are. And no sandbox came even remotely close to the success of most theme parks, too... if that isn't a hint, then I dunno what a hint is.

Meh just leave him be...

I dont get the mentallity some "sanboxers" have (notice that the quotes arent accidentally put). I like both sandbox and themeparks. Hell i still play on "old school UO" based private server from time to time.

EDIT: the point is that open mind seems so hard to achieve.

Has nothing to do with open minds. It has to do with current MMO trends.

 

This isent a HATE post about GW2 so dont treat it as one.

Sorry for threating it as one, but it sounds more like you picked a side, which doesnt sound good IMO

Originally posted by just1opinion

Originally posted by Badaboom
So you got SWTOR going F2P.  WoW, TSW and RIFT releasing patches & expansions on or close to the GW2 release date.  Guess we should start calling it the GW2 effect.

 

Badabing Badaboom.

 

You're right. :)

Of course I am.  When Badaboom says something, you can take it to the cash shop expanded bank.

Originally posted by Pandamin

Originally posted by kantseeme

And a hint at what? What measures susscess? Id love to know.

Are you suggesting only "themeparks" have this massive drop in retention?

 

What exactly are you inferring?

Of course not, but theme parks, historically, and by their very design, are far more likely to have a major drop off and collapse after launch. Why? Because the majority of them are cheap clones/knock offs that people get bored with quickly, they aren't very social so they don't form a lasting community that keeps people playing, and the big one... they're designed around solo questing through a "story" and as soon as that content runs out, people leave.

Almost every major themepark MMO since 2005 has merged its servers within a year. That rarely ever happened to non WoWclones. In fact, games like Darkfall opened MORE servers several months after launch.

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by kantseeme
Will check back with you all on oct 25th. See how everyone is doin then LOL.

Same could be said for ArcheAge 2 months after release.

And the point is?

The point is AA isent your typical theampark like GW2 IS. So try again.

Some like Themeparks, some like Sandboxes...

Some like GW2, some like WoW...

Some like Coke, some like Orange juice...

AA can fail or succeed 2 months after release, as well as can GW2... 

Still dont get it.

What dont you get. You just said it.

Im not talking about peoples likes or dislikes. Im talking about peoples attention span.

Ofcoruse AA can fail 2 months after launch. Any game can. I never said anything to the contrary did i.

I never brought up AA. Some GW2 fanboi did. Where not talking about sanbox games here. were talking about Theamparks.

 

  If i can understand you correctly, you want to point that themeparks get old pretty quickly so they wont draw attention anymore after 2 months... According to that logic, WoW would be dead a long time ago by now... 

  The thing is: no sub-genre can determine a game's success or popularity. Sub-genres are more the matter of taste than success. You got a Darkfall for brightest example as the newer sandbox. Where is that game now? DF had a bunch of things that signed the doom of that game. If you want a succesfull and popular game, you need to have done it right and perfect (well as near to perfect as it can be). Be it sandbox, or themepark or themebox or whatever.

  Fun games will last. Boring and uninspiring games wont. And sorry for derailing the thread.

Why do people use the exception as the example? OVERALL THEAMPARKS TEND TO HAVE A STEEP DROP IN PLAYER BASE 30 DAYS AFTER LAUNCH.

My OP had nothing to do with failing or susscess. Was about retaing players based of its name. A THEAMPARK. You peoiple just keep adding things that wasent even there to begin with all because you though someone was atticking GW2.

Originally posted by kantseeme

Why do people use the exception as the example? OVERALL THEAMPARKS TEND TO HAVE A STEEP DROP IN PLAYER BASE 30 DAYS AFTER LAUNCH.

Wrong, definitely not after 30 days for most, and writing in caps doesn't make a thing more right.

It seems to me that YOU use the exception as the example.

Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by kantseeme

But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way theamparks are.

Ah yes, right, like World of Warcraft right? Or hell, even Lord of the Rings Online, on a smaller scale. I could find more examples but I can't be bothered to research more numbers.

"your way the theme parks are" is definitely not "the way theme parks are". Your way is the way bad theme parks are. And no sandbox came even remotely close to the success of most theme parks, too... if that isn't a hint, then I dunno what a hint is.

Argure samantics why dont you. Ok then let me change it so those of you soe that its up to your standereds.

 

" But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way A VAST MAJORITY of theamparks are."

 

Is that better?

 

And a hint at what? What measures susscess? Id love to know.

Just a suggestion but maybe fun measures success? its probably a better measure than subscriber retention. I think GW 2 is fun to play, irrelevant of how long that lasts I'd say that one weekend in Tyria has probably been more fun than every other game in the genre I've played.

And here we have a great responce. Thank you for not throwing depersions at me and giving me an honest responce. This is welcome.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by kantseeme

Why do people use the exception as the example? OVERALL THEAMPARKS TEND TO HAVE A STEEP DROP IN PLAYER BASE 30 DAYS AFTER LAUNCH.

Wrong, definitely not after 30 days for most, and writing in caps doesn't make a thing more right.

It seems to me that YOU use the exception as the example.

DDO, Rift, LotRO, WAR, Aion, Star Trek, TSW, SWTOR....merging servers within sight of launch.

Yeah, it's the exception alright.

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Pandamin

Originally posted by kantseeme

And a hint at what? What measures susscess? Id love to know.

Are you suggesting only "themeparks" have this massive drop in retention?

 

What exactly are you inferring?

Of course not, but theme parks, historically, and by their very design, are far more likely to have a major drop off and collapse after launch. Why? Because the majority of them are cheap clones/knock offs that people get bored with quickly, they aren't very social so they don't form a lasting community that keeps people playing, and the big one... they're designed around solo questing through a "story" and as soon as that content runs out, people leave.

 

Almost every major themepark MMO since 2005 has merged its servers within a year. That rarely ever happened to non WoWclones. In fact, games like Darkfall opened MORE servers several months after launch.

See, its not difficult to answer. :)

Exactly, thats the kind of answer I was hoping for.

You are a 100% correct of course, it is obvious to everyone but the guys writing the cheques.

Retention is linked to qaulity and availability not genre or sub genre.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by kantseeme

But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way theamparks are.

Ah yes, right, like World of Warcraft right? Or hell, even Lord of the Rings Online, on a smaller scale. I could find more examples but I can't be bothered to research more numbers.

"your way the theme parks are" is definitely not "the way theme parks are". Your way is the way bad theme parks are. And no sandbox came even remotely close to the success of most theme parks, too... if that isn't a hint, then I dunno what a hint is.

Argure samantics why dont you. Ok then let me change it so those of you soe that its up to your standereds.

" But for what it is, history says that retaining players will drop after 30 days. Sorry but thats the way A VAST MAJORITY of theamparks are."

You are still wrong, and it has nothing to do with semantics, but with reality. That vast majority of AAA Theme Parks last way beyond those 30 days you mention in your first quoted post before their population drops. Yeah, even supposed "failures" like SW:TOR. I'm not even sure real failures like Age of Conan had a population drop that early.

Your first post makes it believe that that supposed "vaste majority" of yours just plays those games during the 30 "free" days coming with the box and quit. I disagree with that, it's not that fast, at least not for that "vast majority".

If you want to make generalizations, you better get them right. Get real, theme parks remains the most popular MMORPG genre, and have been so since Everquest. The two only successful sandboxes have been UO and EvE.

And don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a new, good sandbox MMORPG to play. But I'm not holding my breath for now.

Once again adding things that arent there. I never said anything about AAA Theams. Im refering to the market as a WHOLE. Is translation being lost with you so high up on your soapbox? Im not bashing GW2 just so you know. So if your hateing on me because you think i am then its not called for. I like Some Theams to. But The current crop of them are NOT retaing there player base.

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by kantseeme
Will check back with you all on oct 25th. See how everyone is doin then LOL.

Same could be said for ArcheAge 2 months after release.

And the point is?

The point is AA isent your typical theampark like GW2 IS. So try again.

Some like Themeparks, some like Sandboxes...

Some like GW2, some like WoW...

Some like Coke, some like Orange juice...

AA can fail or succeed 2 months after release, as well as can GW2... 

Still dont get it.

What dont you get. You just said it.

Im not talking about peoples likes or dislikes. Im talking about peoples attention span.

Ofcoruse AA can fail 2 months after launch. Any game can. I never said anything to the contrary did i.

I never brought up AA. Some GW2 fanboi did. Where not talking about sanbox games here. were talking about Theamparks.

 

  If i can understand you correctly, you want to point that themeparks get old pretty quickly so they wont draw attention anymore after 2 months... According to that logic, WoW would be dead a long time ago by now... 

  The thing is: no sub-genre can determine a game's success or popularity. Sub-genres are more the matter of taste than success. You got a Darkfall for brightest example as the newer sandbox. Where is that game now? DF had a bunch of things that signed the doom of that game. If you want a succesfull and popular game, you need to have done it right and perfect (well as near to perfect as it can be). Be it sandbox, or themepark or themebox or whatever.

  Fun games will last. Boring and uninspiring games wont. And sorry for derailing the thread.

Why do people use the exception as the example? 

Why not? WoW is a major success, when it comes to themeparks. EQ too.

UO was success also when it comes to sandbox for ex. Unlike DF and MO (if anyone is playing them at all).

And you got me all wrong. I didnt talked about finanncial success.