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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Why SW:TOR is not down for the count!

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147 posts found
  jybgess

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/06
Posts: 362

8/12/12 12:36:02 PM#21
This game is like a Hooker. They're both dead inside.
  Xiveil

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/06
Posts: 11

8/12/12 12:43:48 PM#22
Originally posted by Presbytier
Originally posted by maji
Your post is kinda strange.

 

I mean come on: I doubt that anyone but the tiny group of super hardcore swtor fans thought, that the game would be "the second coming of theme park mmorps". Why? Because the game simply offers nothing substantially new. It's a 99% generic theme park mmorpg with a star wars skin. And that's the reason why it's losing subscribers: it's the same as always.

 

But I also think that this was the entire concept of the game: build a generic theme park MMORPG with a big budget, give it an IP with a huge number of fans, and make lots of money with preorders. Then some more money with subscriptions, and later with the item shop when the game turns free to play. That was how it was planned, that was how it turned out.

Generic, hardley. Name a single other MMO that devoted to giving its players their own story.

Most actually have stories intended as you the hero, the main character.  Just none have full voice overs. And maybe or maybe not on the devs don't care...but I know one name that doesn't give a rats behind, and that is EA.  EVERYTHING they touch turns to dust. They rely on heavy box sales, put little money into development past that till they push out another box.  I wonder why their sports games have been around so long? Oh wait...

Funding will continually decrease unless the game has an upward surge of revenue, that's how EA rolls. Miracle return or shelve it like Warhammer.

  odinsrath

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/10
Posts: 839

8/12/12 12:44:09 PM#23
Originally posted by jybgess
This game is like a Hooker. They're both dead inside.

if there was a "like" button id click it! xD

  Presbytier

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/12/10
Posts: 426

 
OP  8/12/12 12:48:17 PM#24
Originally posted by Xiveil
Originally posted by Presbytier
Originally posted by maji
Your post is kinda strange.

 

I mean come on: I doubt that anyone but the tiny group of super hardcore swtor fans thought, that the game would be "the second coming of theme park mmorps". Why? Because the game simply offers nothing substantially new. It's a 99% generic theme park mmorpg with a star wars skin. And that's the reason why it's losing subscribers: it's the same as always.

 

But I also think that this was the entire concept of the game: build a generic theme park MMORPG with a big budget, give it an IP with a huge number of fans, and make lots of money with preorders. Then some more money with subscriptions, and later with the item shop when the game turns free to play. That was how it was planned, that was how it turned out.

Generic, hardley. Name a single other MMO that devoted to giving its players their own story.

Most actually have stories intended as you the hero, the main character.  Just none have full voice overs. And maybe or maybe not on the devs don't care...but I know one name that doesn't give a rats behind, and that is EA.  EVERYTHING they touch turns to dust. They rely on heavy box sales, put little money into development past that till they push out another box.  I wonder why their sports games have been around so long? Oh wait...

Funding will continually decrease unless the game has an upward surge of revenue, that's how EA rolls. Miracle return or shelve it like Warhammer.

The EA connection is really the one thing that does worry me. I think a continual stream of content will increase revenue for them, but EA may not see it that way. As I said at the end of my original poat only time will tell.

"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

8/12/12 12:53:14 PM#25

You are probably right to be concerned of EA's track record with underperforming MMOs. IIRC the only substantial updates to Warhammer were cash shop goodies, mounts, and a Renown cap increasse pack that was mandatory to purchase if you wanted to remain competative in the game. Other then that, the game is essentially in maintence mode.

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5565

8/12/12 12:56:41 PM#26
They would need NGE levels of change for me to go back for their F2P excursion.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  drakaena

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 508

8/12/12 12:59:18 PM#27

I don't like picking on TOR because at this point its like making fun of the handicap kid. It's just wrong and I feel dirty.

But I wouldn't play even if they offered to pay me 15$ a month.

  Presbytier

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/12/10
Posts: 426

 
OP  8/12/12 12:59:37 PM#28
Originally posted by colddog04
They would need NGE levels of change for me to go back for their F2P excursion.

I dissagree. The core game is solid it just need more to do at endgame, and I would like to see more story/leveling content in the future as well.

"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  gaugemew

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/09/11
Posts: 159

8/12/12 1:01:26 PM#29
Originally posted by Presbytier
Originally posted by Probert
How can you say there is no difference between Sandbox and Theme Parks? There are HUGE differences, gaming companies want full control over what is going on in their game and how people play their game...why you won't see many if any at all sandbox games.

My point is entirely subjective, but I found that when people actually try o list the differences it collapses under the fact that no one agrees to what a Sandbox MMO should be to begin with.

Sandbox - players are given the tools to build their own world.

Themepark - the world has already been built for them

 

/thread

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5565

8/12/12 1:09:43 PM#30
Originally posted by Presbytier
Originally posted by colddog04
They would need NGE levels of change for me to go back for their F2P excursion.

I dissagree. The core game is solid it just need more to do at endgame, and I would like to see more story/leveling content in the future as well.

I know people disagree with me. I just feel differently than you. I see adding storytelling/leveling content as a poor direction for the game. I think if they opened up the world, took space off rails, added social hubs besides the space stations (cities on planets for instance), made Ilum work, made dark/light decisions have more impact, made questing less linear, and a lot of other things that I could probably come up with, it would do a lot to get me to try out the game again. I guess I want Star Wars to feel a bit more open than it does. It feels very boxed in at the moment.

 

I just think it needs an overhaul for me to have fun in it. I also don't see the story side of the game to be as high quality as you. I feel the stories are a bit cheesy, so maybe that has something to do with my aversion to it.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  arctarus

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/26/06
Posts: 2591

8/12/12 1:11:16 PM#31
Originally posted by Presbytier
 

I dissagree. The core game is solid it just need more to do at endgame, and I would like to see more story/leveling content in the future as well.

See friend, thats the problem. The core game is actually very flaw.

This game beside leveling down the very linear path , offers nothing else.

The crafting is non existent, the small world, the countless of load screens, boring space combat etc...

 

Its the core mechanics thats letting this game down.

If BW wana revamp this game? They gotta change and add more stuff.

I like to see a sunrise/sunset on tatooine, more things to do beside leveling , more area that will enguage both faction to pvp.

Rolling on a pvp server ( the swiftsure ) seeing a sith is like seeing a rare spawn! They need to interlock the questing areas like STV in WoW.

So many changes they need to do man. They need more than a miracle...

RIP Orc Choppa

  CujoSWAoA

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/27/04
Posts: 1848

"Pablo Picasso said art is a lie that tells the truth."

8/12/12 1:12:38 PM#32
Originally posted by Presbytier
Originally posted by maji
Your post is kinda strange.

 

I mean come on: I doubt that anyone but the tiny group of super hardcore swtor fans thought, that the game would be "the second coming of theme park mmorps". Why? Because the game simply offers nothing substantially new. It's a 99% generic theme park mmorpg with a star wars skin. And that's the reason why it's losing subscribers: it's the same as always.

 

But I also think that this was the entire concept of the game: build a generic theme park MMORPG with a big budget, give it an IP with a huge number of fans, and make lots of money with preorders. Then some more money with subscriptions, and later with the item shop when the game turns free to play. That was how it was planned, that was how it turned out.

Generic, hardley. Name a single other MMO that devoted to giving its players their own story.

"Their own story"?

Really?

Everyone who plays one of the classes in the games is lead down the exact same story.  It doesn't matter if you choose the Nice reply or the Dickhead reply, you stil go down the exact same path.

Its not "Their own story." its a thinly crafted narrow hallway that you're pushed down like a pig to slaughter.  SW:TOR's "story" is not innovative, it might be the first of its kind, but its not innovation.

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4152

Trolls will be ignored

8/12/12 1:14:51 PM#33
Originally posted by Presbytier

This has been a whirl wind of a year for SW:ToR; there is no doubt about that. It started out as the second coming of Theme Park MMORPGs and now it is declared as an example as to why Theme Park MMORPGs are done for. Now I don"t have anything against Sandbox MMOs, but I do prefer the structure and nature of Theme Park games(which really is a misleading name since overal there are not many differences between a Theme Park and Sandbox game; just ask any one what constitutes as a pure Sandbox MMO and you will get an exceptionally wide variety of veiwpoints).

I'm not one of those players that prefers one over the other. I enjoy both styles of game. Themeparks are good for making the leveling up process in MMOs seem less tedious. TOR by far had this in spades. The problem is, themparks tend to focus too strictly on that aspect and forget that these games are supposed to be worlds that players want to live in. Whenever a big IP like Star Trek or Star Wars is announced to the MMO world, the first thought in many players minds are "Yes! Now I get to live in that world I saw in the movies or read about in the books."  Whenever that fails to happen, players get dissapointed.

There are different types of sandbox games, but one common theme in all of them is a living, vibrant world that you as the player can affect change in. It's why PRE-NGE SWG is remembered so fondly. In that game you were not restricted to any one class.  You could pick and choose skills from 32 professions and make your own unique character. Running into a character similiar to yours was a lot rarer than it is today. Another thing that made it different was an economy completely ran by players and player made cities. If you tended to be an a**hole towards other people, word got around and no one would do business with you. You would be banned from cities along with the shops that were in them. All these things are examples of the difference between a sandbox and themepark game. 

 

So, the question is; is SW:ToR over or is this just the beggining of its second coming. Now I will admit that most of this is just the hopes and wishes of a fan, but that does not devalue what i am about to say. Firstly I firmly believe SW:ToR would have been better served if it had taken a B2P model from the get go(notice i did not say F2P since i I think this game did sell well and would have continued to sell well without a sub). Now the game itself had an exceptionally solid launch one that I think many companies should emulate(from the looks of things GW2 is taking the same model with lots of Beta weekends and stress tests before launch). For the most part it also did not have an incredible amount of game breaking bugs( I am not sying it had no bugs, because it did, but instead pointing out that in comparison to most MMO launches it was considerably better).

TOR definetly had a better launch than most MMOs. I played the game from launch until june and experienced very few technical issues. On the other hand I played TSW two weeks after launch and ran into so many issues that I just threw up my hands and quit. And of course I played SWG and we all know the huge amount of bugs that game had. Technical issues was never a problem for me in TOR. 

 

Now the real issue was it just launched one year to soon. Many quality of life features the game needed as well as PvP and endgame content was just not there at launch, and i believe that it seriously hindered the game out of the gate. Many of those things have been addresed since launch(well except PvP which is still a mess), and the games overall performance has increased considrably since then as well. So, just less than one year later SW:ToR is going F2P, and it is a good thing. More people will be able to access the game with less restrictions; the only question is to whether they can keep their six week promise of new content and as to whether they can monetize it inj a way that does not piss off their fans but still makes them money.

And here we come to the real reason that TOR isn't living up to expectations: the devs have NOT done a good job of providing new content and have really mismanaged this game.  In the six months I played the game TOR had ONE dynamic event and a few patches that nerfed classes. No new class story, no new quests and no new features other than the legacy which is nothing more than a credit sink. Based on that short history, I have a hard time believing that TOR will all of a sudden change into a game that will expand its scope. I hope I'm wrong and that when 1.4 releases it will be the big conent patch that everyone gave up waiting for. We'll just have to wait and see. 

 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Zarriya

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/03/10
Posts: 230

8/12/12 1:15:56 PM#34
Originally posted by Presbytier

 

 

So, the question is; is SW:ToR over or is this just the beggining of its second coming.

For me its over and i will never go back.  It really is a shame, but they lie and cover up so many things, that I really want no part of Bioware ever again. 

  Presbytier

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/12/10
Posts: 426

 
OP  8/12/12 1:22:26 PM#35
Originally posted by Zarriya
Originally posted by Presbytier

 

 

So, the question is; is SW:ToR over or is this just the beggining of its second coming.

For me its over and i will never go back.  It really is a shame, but they lie and cover up so many things, that I really want no part of Bioware ever again. 

What did they lie about? I find it funny how people will claim said "game developer lied" then never actually say what it eas they lied abourt.

"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  Xthos

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2651

8/12/12 1:24:33 PM#36

I think it can 'survive', it is Star Wars, and SWG survived, even with all that they screwed up and changed in it, atleast until Lucas jacked up the fees.

So TOR can probably survive, until the same is done to them, someone else will come along and push them out probably.

 

I got my money worth, played the free month, but the end game content is a generic gear grind, and all new/planned content was just the same stuff that I found stale...It didn't excite me, or many people from the loss of subs.

 

I think the meshing of story/mmo was flawed/lazy, could get into a lot of things, but the worst was finishing a quest where you kill or make a faction submit to you, then you leave the instance, and they are all still attacking you....It would not of been hard to put in flags to make this small change, to make things seem like they mattered.

 

The story was 90%+ the same for my dark sith sorc, and my wifes light sith sorc, and 90% is being generous.

 

So going FTP, they can trudge along, on IP alone, but I don't see anything short of a TOR NGE turning the prospects of this game around....Thats a NGE that actually works though.

 

I wouldn't play the game for free myself, even if it were truely free to play, with only a cosmetic cash shop.  I got my time out of it, but short of some huge change, I have seen what it has to offer and don't care to see more of it.

 

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5565

8/12/12 1:26:37 PM#37
Originally posted by Presbytier
Originally posted by Zarriya
Originally posted by Presbytier

So, the question is; is SW:ToR over or is this just the beggining of its second coming.

For me its over and i will never go back.  It really is a shame, but they lie and cover up so many things, that I really want no part of Bioware ever again. 

What did they lie about? I find it funny how people will claim said "game developer lied" then never actually say what it eas they lied abourt.

I don't know if you'd consider this a lie, but I rememeber my brother was still playing SWTOR and they were saying they were going to release ranked warzones in patch 1.2 (I think that was the one). He was asking me to come back to experience them with him. I told him I'd think about it. One day before the patch went live, they said that ranked warzones were out. I think they didn't even add them for months.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Xthos

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2651

8/12/12 1:31:20 PM#38
Originally posted by Presbytier
Originally posted by Zarriya
Originally posted by Presbytier

 

 

So, the question is; is SW:ToR over or is this just the beggining of its second coming.

For me its over and i will never go back.  It really is a shame, but they lie and cover up so many things, that I really want no part of Bioware ever again. 

What did they lie about? I find it funny how people will claim said "game developer lied" then never actually say what it eas they lied abourt.

 Couldn't tell you who it was, but I remember watching a video from one of the developers, and he was talking about all of these huge worlds that you could go out and essentially have sandbox type gameplay, and get lost/explore....I mean it isn't a lie, as thats all subjective, but I doubt many actually felt that they delivered that...

I watched that video, and they guy was gushing it when he said it, then a bunch of people talked about how the worlds opened up, and got bigger....I kept waiting for it, and once I was 30 something, I finally gave up that it would ever really happen.  Most the content was like a rat maze, Tat was ok, but not too much was get lost/explorable...

So in a lot of peoples eyes, they see these things as a lie, even if it wasn't meant to be, and the guy was mmo sheltered and didn't know what most people find huge and explorable is not the same as what he thought it was.

  Tokken

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 943

"I'm your Huckleberry!"

8/12/12 1:36:40 PM#39
down for the count? F2P is its lifeline.

UO, EQ, DAoC, SWG, WOW, EQ2, CoH, CoX, VG, Aion, STO, CO, DCUO, LOTRO, Tera, SWTOR, GW2, DP, NW, TSW, MH, DDO, Rift, WS, ESO, Trove, LM

  User Deleted
8/12/12 1:38:40 PM#40
Originally posted by Presbytier

What did they lie about? I find it funny how people will claim said "game developer lied" then never actually say what it eas they lied abourt.

I would say it's less that they "lied", but more that they overexaggerated how amazing their MMO was going to be.

They claimed that the story you are lead through (it isn't your own story if you are not the one who made it IMO) has choices that affect the world. Most of the choices really don't do anything outside of the world it was found on, and even then it has no long term impact on your story as a whole. You are still going to end up being the Scourge of the Galaxy or the Supreme Commander of Whoreallycares in the end regardless of your "choices".

People are also generally annoyed that despite having 4 - 5 years to work on this game, nearly $200 million dollars sunk into the development of the game, probably not including marketing costs and the cost of future expansions, if they ever get that far, and the generally massive hype about how this game would be the MMO to end all MMOs, especially the World of Warcraft, they STILL managed to only churn out a very traditional, and in some cases, subpar MMO with glowstick weapons and voiceovers, the latter of which isn't even all that unique; it's been done before by DCUO, and I would argue it was done better in that MMO.

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