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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] The Secret World: The Epic Cog

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43 posts found
  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 13422

 
OP  8/07/12 6:04:04 PM#1

The word 'epic' is bandied about a lot these days, whether speaking of 'epic fails' or something that is truly 'epic' in size and scope. In today's The Secret World column, we take a look at why TSW creates and epic feel. See what you think and then leave us a comment or two.

Today, I'm going to attempt to explain the context behind what it means to be epic. I'm also going to quickly dive into how SWTOR managed to lose the epic feeling it tried to establish in its advertising. More importantly, I will expound on how TSW creates an epic feeling for players, despite explicitly mentioning in the opening minutes of your tale that you aren't an epic hero, but a cog in the machine.

Read more of Victor Barreiro Jr.'s The Secret World: The Epic Cog.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  necrostein

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/11
Posts: 77

8/08/12 7:17:17 AM#2

epic first!!!!

good article. TSW does keep you feeling like your "part of something bigger" not the "prophesied one" which is a breath of fresh air.

 

 
  Vapors

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 399

8/08/12 7:36:38 AM#3
very good and short article
  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

8/08/12 7:37:58 AM#4

Very good article. You made some interesting points about the subject matter.

Kudos

/salute

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  User Deleted
8/08/12 7:53:47 AM#5
F2p for swtor is going to mix it up for them a bit, I like how they haven't given up and waited for the game to totally die, I think if they hear your words and follow through, they definitely have a chance to revive thier game and create some epic content for the end game experience. The people have spoken swtor, you are what you are, now pick up the pieces, put it back together, and stay deligent in your expectations but be real about it, if you haven't played swtor its actually very fun, but it does not live up to the expectation hype, take that out, humble yourself and you can then be exhalted. Tsw sorry but a mid summer release is a bad idea, now GW2 is upon us and I just may never get to check it out.
  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4110

8/08/12 8:35:53 AM#6
For me both games have the same problem.  Limited content and a storyline that just ends as well as boring ALT play due to redundant "leveling" paths.  Also, combat in both games needs an overhaul.  To me, any game that makes me want to find ways around mobs instead of fighting them, fails at FUN combat design.  It should MAKE me want to tackle every mob I see, not look for the easiest path around them or FORCE me to fight them when I dont' want to, as TSW and SWTOR do.  Epic fail on those fronts.

http://www.twitch.tv/elockethemmoaddict

https://twitter.com/MMOAddicted

  Vapors

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 399

8/08/12 8:45:47 AM#7
Originally posted by elocke
For me both games have the same problem.  Limited content and a storyline that just ends as well as boring ALT play due to redundant "leveling" paths.  Also, combat in both games needs an overhaul.  To me, any game that makes me want to find ways around mobs instead of fighting them, fails at FUN combat design.  It should MAKE me want to tackle every mob I see, not look for the easiest path around them or FORCE me to fight them when I dont' want to, as TSW and SWTOR do.  Epic fail on those fronts.

The question is simply how you want to to see the combat to be? Try to explain me your view of how should a shooting pumpgun and a shooting pistol look like and how should you shoot them up, by pressing 1 button or aiming with them with the mouse or stuff like that.

I guess its very hard for both of the games make the player satisfied, they can't make simple weapons to look like epic.

Im not sure but the most players just love to see awesome particle flying over your whole computers window (not a big fan of it personally)

  Matheusor1

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/07
Posts: 174

8/08/12 9:00:40 AM#8
Whoa, this isn't an article, this is a masterpiece. Good job
  Blackbrrd

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/09
Posts: 812

8/08/12 9:08:22 AM#9

A really good article and it does highlight how the story in TSW is told quite differently to other games. It's all about your character discovering, investigating and holding back the tide - if only for a short while.

 

It really like how it's really your character that gets ideas about what to do, instead of getting quests from others. If you pay attention to the quest "givers" they very seldom give you the quest outright. They talk about a problem and your character finds the solution, while you as the player performs the action. For investigation missions, you have to find the solution and perform the actions. It's a subtle difference, but a very good one.

 

Regarding combat I think they have some tweaking left. I found the combat in AoC to start out as more fun, but in raids and dungeons, I like TSW's design a lot better. I think the game would have been more fun with slightly higher damage and slightly lower hp, making the combat a bit faster. What I do like about the combat is the movement aspect of it, but AoC had it as well.

 

In TSW I am playing an Pistol/Elemental slowing, critting bastard, while I in AoC played a Bear Shaman and a Nightfall Necro, all very dependant on movement and positioning, both in AoC and TSW.

 
  Fadari

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 3

8/08/12 9:16:11 AM#10

Good article and you're right, I truely enjoyed my "story" in SWTOR but then it just ended..bam.  I did the so-called endgame but there was nothing exceptional about it, not even difficult.  I guess I remember way back when games had some difficult aspect to them.

 

Now, TSW has brought that back.  Maybe since it's an adult game, I'm not sure.  But the hours of work put in doing some of the missions and investigations.  But the best has to be parsing combat logs with different weapons and passives to be as strong as I can possibly be.  But there are so many choices, any play style can be accomidated.  I can be, whatever is needed, for whatever situation we get in to.  I am definately liking not being tied into just one role and have to level multiple toons just to experience different aspects of the game.  Just load a different deck and head out!

 

 

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  HighMarshal

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/03
Posts: 242

8/08/12 9:17:12 AM#11

I did a mission for the Dragon faction in TSW and the end message I got from my faction pretty much said that they expected the guy to blow me into tiny chunks and since he didn't they would have to readjust their plans.

I felt like, OH, Thanks for believing in me you rat bastards!

  Gorilla

Old School

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 2218

8/08/12 9:22:15 AM#12
Originally posted by elocke
For me both games have the same problem.  Limited content and a storyline that just ends as well as boring ALT play due to redundant "leveling" paths.  Also, combat in both games needs an overhaul.  To me, any game that makes me want to find ways around mobs instead of fighting them, fails at FUN combat design.  It should MAKE me want to tackle every mob I see, not look for the easiest path around them or FORCE me to fight them when I dont' want to, as TSW and SWTOR do.  Epic fail on those fronts.

This.

Ben-Hur was epic but still over in three and a half hours.

  Aceundor

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/06
Posts: 494

Why do I keep reading these forums?

8/08/12 9:34:48 AM#13
Originally posted by elocke
For me both games have the same problem.  Limited content and a storyline that just ends as well as boring ALT play due to redundant "leveling" paths.  Also, combat in both games needs an overhaul.  To me, any game that makes me want to find ways around mobs instead of fighting them, fails at FUN combat design.  It should MAKE me want to tackle every mob I see, not look for the easiest path around them or FORCE me to fight them when I dont' want to, as TSW and SWTOR do.  Epic fail on those fronts.

Every MMO I have played has me at the same situation. I want to go around the mobs after fighting a certian amount of them. This happend in WOW and it happend in AoC. It is simply the nature of MMOs i beleive. Your goal is not to kill mobs but to grow your charachter. (get xp or loot). After a while most mobs become "trash mobs" and I want to get past them with as little effort as possible in order to reach my next goal. (loot or xp). Therefore combat in any mmo outgrows itself .

 

Originally posted by BishopB:

Are a lot of the trolls just angry kids with old gaming hardware?

  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4110

8/08/12 9:36:25 AM#14
Originally posted by Vapors
Originally posted by elocke
For me both games have the same problem.  Limited content and a storyline that just ends as well as boring ALT play due to redundant "leveling" paths.  Also, combat in both games needs an overhaul.  To me, any game that makes me want to find ways around mobs instead of fighting them, fails at FUN combat design.  It should MAKE me want to tackle every mob I see, not look for the easiest path around them or FORCE me to fight them when I dont' want to, as TSW and SWTOR do.  Epic fail on those fronts.

The question is simply how you want to to see the combat to be? Try to explain me your view of how should a shooting pumpgun and a shooting pistol look like and how should you shoot them up, by pressing 1 button or aiming with them with the mouse or stuff like that.

I guess its very hard for both of the games make the player satisfied, they can't make simple weapons to look like epic.

Im not sure but the most players just love to see awesome particle flying over your whole computers window (not a big fan of it personally)

My complaint about the combat is not the animation or graphics or even if its tab target or reticle.  My complaint is about how it "feels" and "flows".  It feels slow and tedious and not visceral at all.  GW2 combat is what I really enjoy, maybe even a hint of Tera's combat IF they would add more depth to it and get rid of the locked in place while casting, hence why I lean toward GW2.

http://www.twitch.tv/elockethemmoaddict

https://twitter.com/MMOAddicted

  Hekate27

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 43

8/08/12 9:41:21 AM#15

I have always thought that being a cog who is able to overcome greater and greater challenges yet still retain the humble anonymity of being a cog to be pretty epic.  But then I also love playing a Gnome in WoW and will enjoy being Asura in GW2.  TSW seems to also fulfill the same need in me.  The greatest heros are not those who tell you that they are great, but the ones recognised for their greatness by others.

SWTOR spent a long time telling us how great and epic it was long before it was released.  TSW had many detractors and doubters before release based upon the history of the company releasing it.  However it has recieved great praise and recognition by the most important critics of all ... the gamers prepared to buy and play the game.

Do what thou wilt, and harm ye none. - Witches Rede

  RudedawgCDN

Novice Member

Joined: 12/13/04
Posts: 488

8/08/12 10:01:02 AM#16
Originally posted by Vapors
Originally posted by elocke
For me both games have the same problem.  Limited content and a storyline that just ends as well as boring ALT play due to redundant "leveling" paths.  Also, combat in both games needs an overhaul.  To me, any game that makes me want to find ways around mobs instead of fighting them, fails at FUN combat design.  It should MAKE me want to tackle every mob I see, not look for the easiest path around them or FORCE me to fight them when I dont' want to, as TSW and SWTOR do.  Epic fail on those fronts.

The question is simply how you want to to see the combat to be? Try to explain me your view of how should a shooting pumpgun and a shooting pistol look like and how should you shoot them up, by pressing 1 button or aiming with them with the mouse or stuff like that.

I guess its very hard for both of the games make the player satisfied, they can't make simple weapons to look like epic.

Im not sure but the most players just love to see awesome particle flying over your whole computers window (not a big fan of it personally)

 TSW combat is very repetitive.

Hit one button over and over again to build resources.

Consume resources.

Really?

You don't get why other games have MUCH better combat mechanics - like GW2, Tera, Vanguard.

What "saves" TSW for me is fantastic quests and 5 mans - very well done - too bad the combat mechanic sucks monkey balls.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7238

8/08/12 10:26:08 AM#17
A  paradigm shift if you will. 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  delta9

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/05
Posts: 237

8/08/12 10:28:05 AM#18

How can you call any MMO without large group (raid) content epic?

 

Repeating lower level content to unlock more skills is no different to rolling a alt when you think about it, and by doing the first you are basically giving overpowered characters easy 1 shot content, making them feel "epic"?

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7238

8/08/12 10:29:11 AM#19
Originally posted by delta9

How can you call any MMO without large group (raid) content epic?

 

Repeating lower level content to unlock more skills is no different to rolling a alt when you think about it, and by doing the first you are basically giving overpowered characters easy 1 shot content, making them feel "epic"?

10/20 man raids at the end of this month. 

 

 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Jaedor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 899

8/08/12 11:27:43 AM#20
Originally posted by delta9

How can you call any MMO without large group (raid) content epic?

Repeating lower level content to unlock more skills is no different to rolling a alt when you think about it, and by doing the first you are basically giving overpowered characters easy 1 shot content, making them feel "epic"?

I think it depends on your definition of epic. For some players, epic is about the setting, the story and how you fit into it while for others it is the intensity of battle. Both can provide adrenaline rush, but the path is different, as is the length of time the rush lasts.

 

Adrenaline rush is always temporary, but the rush from an epic raid battle might not last as long as the rush from accomplishing a tough puzzle. One is physical and the other is intellectual, so while the rush itself is a physical, hormonal event, the effects act upon different centers with different results.

 

More on topic, epic is a great word that evokes a sense of vastness and history. Being a part of something like that makes us feel both small and large at the same time, provoking the cognitive dissonance Victor talks about in the article. And while we are naturally inclined to resolve that dissonance one way or another, the experience of epicness happens when we are on the razor's edge experiencing both at once.

 

Great article.

 
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