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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Reason PvP sucks in most games

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113 posts found
  Palladin

Novice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 434

 
OP  8/07/12 9:28:23 AM#1

1. It is forced on all players in the open world I.E. Darkfall, Vanguard, Shadowbane

2. PvP specific gear

3. PvP specific gear for event pvp such as BGs and arena.

4. gear from 2 and 3 used in open world pvp.

5. Movement during combat is to fast and furious it should be reduced by 50%

 

IT'S MY OPINION:

BGs and Arenas are fine if the gear rewards only work in those events but should never be allowed in open world.

PvP should never be forced on anyone unless they "chose" to engage.

I see no reason for pvp specific gear

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  jmcdermottuk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 766

8/07/12 9:29:11 AM#2
5. Poor class balance
  User Deleted
8/07/12 9:34:08 AM#3
Originally posted by Palladin

1. It is forced on all players in the open world I.E. Darkfall, Vanguard, Shadowbane

2. PvP specific gear

3. PvP specific gear for event pvp such as BGs and arena.

4. gear from 2 and 3 used in open world pvp.

 

 

Wow each of those i am sure some pvpers would say could be seen as why pvp works, and is loved by them in games. A open world pvper would see forced pvp in the world as a great feature to keep the thrill and rush of danger being everywhere alive. A pvp-oriented player in a pve-based game (like wow), would see pvp specific gear as a method of keeping them rewarded for actually pvping, and not making pvp just a way of gearing for pve thru another method. And the last two merely would be seen by some as being insentives for people to actually pvp, and such to keep them competitive in their chosen game when in the open world. That title should be changed to "Why for some pvp sucks in many other games.", since your opinion is completely your own an so long as pvp in other games are enjoyed by people in them that pvp does not suck at all in fact.

  DrunkWolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 1049

8/07/12 9:34:52 AM#4

6. the playerbase has become so carebear that games cater to them now, and most pvp is just 10v10 mini games.

7. tab target heat seeking arrows and magic that allways hits has taken away skill in pvp.

8. so much CC and stealth in games that players need it now like a crutch in pvp.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6970

8/07/12 9:36:08 AM#5

Funny as a pvpr I've never played a game with bad pvp. eer wait DDO that was bad... and for none of the reasons listed above lol.

 

I do prefer pvp w/o a pvp stat though. It brings the whole role playing experience together imo.

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1102

8/07/12 9:36:50 AM#6

I only like open world PVP, don't bother with any thing else because why play an MMO if you want arena or BGs? Might as well play CS or something....

Sadly open world PVP doesn't exist any more outside Dayz really and that isn't even an MMO, though it's more like one than most MMOs these days.

  hyllstarter

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/05
Posts: 198

8/07/12 9:37:09 AM#7
Open world pvp rules !!! I never understood why people liked the canned instanced pvp.

  DrunkWolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 1049

8/07/12 9:37:16 AM#8
Originally posted by bcbully
Funny as a pvpr I've never played a game with bad pvp. eer wait DDO that was bad... and for none of the reasons listed above lol.

 you didnt play TOR ?

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

8/07/12 9:39:16 AM#9

When you have specific roles for each class, then PVP won't work in that game.

Because how can you balance an Healer vs DPS, or an Tank vs Healer, in a game with Roles, those Roles works together against an NPC. But when you turn those roles against eachother, then those roles becomes an Hinderance.

Thats why Trinity will never work in an PVP setting, it will be too hard trying to balance the Trinity against each other when you are trying to separate them from eachother for PVE.

 

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6970

8/07/12 9:39:32 AM#10
Originally posted by DrunkWolf
Originally posted by bcbully
Funny as a pvpr I've never played a game with bad pvp. eer wait DDO that was bad... and for none of the reasons listed above lol.

 you didnt play TOR ?

There wasn't enough options in pvp for ToR.

 

Imo ToR had the best animations and resouce system. To bad Ilum never worked and Wpvp was a bismal. If Ilum worked, I think ToRs fate would have been much different.

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1102

8/07/12 9:40:07 AM#11
Originally posted by DrunkWolf
Originally posted by bcbully
Funny as a pvpr I've never played a game with bad pvp. eer wait DDO that was bad... and for none of the reasons listed above lol.

 you didnt play TOR ?

The only good PVP in SWTOR was around the balloon ride on Tatooine because it felt like a proper PVP objective. If you fell off the balloon or missed it you'd have to wait for another 30 odd mins so you had to plan when you was gonna be there, time it just right or most likely you'd be ganked and miss it again.

So fun but sadly every one cried about it and I guess it's probably been taken out now to please the whiners.

 

That's why open PVP doesn't exist any more really because even people on PVP servers whine about it.

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

8/07/12 9:42:06 AM#12
Originally posted by tixylix
Originally posted by DrunkWolf
Originally posted by bcbully
Funny as a pvpr I've never played a game with bad pvp. eer wait DDO that was bad... and for none of the reasons listed above lol.

 you didnt play TOR ?

The only good PVP in SWTOR was around the balloon ride on Tatooine because it felt like a proper PVP objective. If you fell off the balloon or missed it you'd have to wait for another 30 odd mins so you had to plan when you was gonna be there, time it just right or most likely you'd be ganked and miss it again.

So fun but sadly every one cried about it and I guess it's probably been taken out now to please the whiners.

 

That's why open PVP doesn't exist any more really because even people on PVP servers whine about it.

Actually there was a way to get pass the balloon ride on Tatooine. Because all you had to have is someone with the pull ability like a Sage and they can pull you in without the ride.

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  User Deleted
8/07/12 9:43:08 AM#13

Well it really depends on what kind of pvp a game is pushing for, some factors have a negative impact upon one kind more than another, but:

 

Extreme vertical progression.

Extreme itemization.

Tab targeting combined with limited micromanagement.

Retarded amounts of CC.

Poor server tech.

 

Are certainly factors which don't help any kind of pvp.

 

Whether a game is open world or instanced arena is not really something you can level as a negative per say as it is simply a subjective preference.

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1102

8/07/12 9:43:42 AM#14
Originally posted by Lucioon
Originally posted by tixylix
Originally posted by DrunkWolf
Originally posted by bcbully
Funny as a pvpr I've never played a game with bad pvp. eer wait DDO that was bad... and for none of the reasons listed above lol.

 you didnt play TOR ?

The only good PVP in SWTOR was around the balloon ride on Tatooine because it felt like a proper PVP objective. If you fell off the balloon or missed it you'd have to wait for another 30 odd mins so you had to plan when you was gonna be there, time it just right or most likely you'd be ganked and miss it again.

So fun but sadly every one cried about it and I guess it's probably been taken out now to please the whiners.

 

That's why open PVP doesn't exist any more really because even people on PVP servers whine about it.

Actually there was a way to get pass the balloon ride on Tatooine. Because all you had to have is someone with the pull ability like a Sage and they can pull you in without the ride.

 

Yeh but you always had a friend hang around there to annoy people. So many people cried about it, like stop whining, this is a PVP server and you just need to play better and beat us :\ If you can't then join a PVE server lol.

  Adamantine

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3298

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

8/07/12 9:45:53 AM#15

> It is forced on all players in the open world I.E. Darkfall, Vanguard, Shadowbane

Vanguard has no PvP.

> PvP specific gear

Hmm. No idea why that would cause any problems.

> 5. Poor class balance

I would have thought THAT is the main issue of PvP

 

 

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1102

8/07/12 9:51:35 AM#16

I don't see a problem with class balance really, people moan about it too much because they suck at the game. I remember watching Taugrim play SWTOR when people kept claiming the game was so unbalanced and he was saying it's one of the best balanced MMOs out there. He was playing these "underpowered" classes and owning everyone with them just proving it comes down to the player. It's true that some things needed changing like a skill changed here or there but it wasn't bad like people claim.

Sick of online games really, haven't played an MMO I liked since 2005 with SWG. The whiners on the forums ruined that game too as SOE listened to them and messed the game up far before the CU or NGE.... mainly Jedi whiners really. I remember when they got rid of TEF because of everyone crying they were forced into PVP.... no just don't kill faction NPCs. So dumb that you were your faction and had to sit there and watch some one kill them after TEF was removed.

They removed permadeath from Jedi too because people made out they kept dying from lag. You don't lose your FS slot, just lose everything you had on your Jedi and have to start again. Frigging when I lose everything on Dayz cause I die from a hacker, I don't cry about it I just get on with it carry on playing.

 

Online games for you now though, always happens whenever something becomes popular, it gets watered down and turned to shit.

  Rohn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3738

8/07/12 9:56:19 AM#17
Originally posted by Palladin

1. It is forced on all players in the open world I.E. Darkfall, Vanguard, Shadowbane

2. PvP specific gear

3. PvP specific gear for event pvp such as BGs and arena.

4. gear from 2 and 3 used in open world pvp.

 

 

 

One of the worst PvP trends in MMO gaming is that almost all of it is canned.  Everytime developers take one of the themepark "rides" out of the gameworld, they strip the game of life and immersion.

Want to adventure?  You'll have to go to PvE-World.  Want open world action?  Well, we really don't have that, but WvW-Land kinda simulates it, without actually being it (hurry, though, the current deathmatch ends in a couple of days).  Housing?  You'll find that in Housing-Land.

Now, games are an amalgamation of completely separate sub-games.  Personally, I think the best games are the ones in which almost everything happens in one, unified open world.

Same thing with character development - it's a key element of RPGs, and always has been.  The separation of sub-games is creating schizophrenic characters.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  Lakytus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/04
Posts: 53

8/07/12 10:05:33 AM#18
Originally posted by Palladin

1. It is forced on all players in the open world I.E. Darkfall, Vanguard, Shadowbane

2. PvP specific gear

3. PvP specific gear for event pvp such as BGs and arena.

4. gear from 2 and 3 used in open world pvp.

5. Movement during combat is to fast and furious it should be reduced by 50%

 

IT'S MY OPINION:

BGs and Arenas are fine if the gear rewards only work in those events but should never be allowed in open world.

PvP should never be forced on anyone unless they "chose" to engage.

I see no reason for pvp specific gear

 

None of this is in the original, and still best MMO with PVP, Dark Age of Camelot.

-PVP was only in a separate realm vs realm area, or battlegrounds.  No PVP in quesitng areas.

-All gear was usuable anywhere and the game was balanced around one set of possible gear.  No PVP specific stats.

-Combat speed was not how most games are; FPS twitch speed with non stop jumping, like Quake 2.

 

Guild Wars 2 is very similar to this.  The combat is still fast, however it seems to work well.

  L0C0Man

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/30/09
Posts: 919

8/07/12 10:06:44 AM#19

PvP sucks in most games, IMHO, because developers are trying to fuse two completely different and in many way opposites playing styles (PvP and PvE) and forcing them to work together, and adjusting something to work in PvE might break it in PvP and the other way around.

IMHO there are two kind of games that really got it right (and note that I'm using examples of games I know, probably other games did it first/better/whatever), one is the EVE style where the whole game is centered around the idea that the enemies are the players, and no real attempt is made on PvE balancing, and the other is the GW1/GW2 style, where PvE and PvP are completely separated, and even skills work differently when entering PvP areas, so adjusting them for PvE doesn't break PvP, and the other way around.

What can men do against such reckless hate?

  Palladin

Novice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 434

 
OP  8/07/12 10:08:19 AM#20
Originally posted by L0C0Man

PvP sucks in most games, IMHO, because developers are trying to fuse two completely different and in many way opposites playing styles (PvP and PvE) and forcing them to work together, and adjusting something to work in PvE might break it in PvP and the other way around.

IMHO there are two kind of games that really got it right, one is the EVE style where the whole game is centered around the idea that the enemies are the players, and no real attempt is made on PvE balancing, and the other is the GW1/GW2 style, where PvE and PvP are completely separated, and even skills work differently when entering PvP areas, so adjusting them for PvE doesn't break PvP, and the other way around.

I completly disagree I think pvp and pve can exist in one game... I think GW2 has it right.

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