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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » So is GW2 basically a slightly improved RIFT?

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180 posts found
  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6829

8/05/12 5:50:27 AM#61


Originally posted by evilastro

It is a complete replacement of the quest system.


I do not agree on that one but I think I got the right picture how it works.

Thank you for informative and exhausting answers all!

  User Deleted
8/05/12 5:51:04 AM#62
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Tarka

Close, but no.

 

The "Hearts" system is the replacement of the standard quest systems you find in other MMO's. But one does not necessarily lead you to another.

The "Dynamic Events" system is as it sounds, events that are ALSO taking place in the zone which you can get involved in and change in accordance with outcomes.

There is also a "personal story" which isn't connected with the above. It can take place in instanced locations set in cities or in the outside world.

In short, the three take place in the same areas of the game, but aren't necessarily connected. Together they create a variance in what the player experiences that is more than what can be experienced in other games, whilst allowing the player to do what they want, when they want

 


 

Ah.

So no replacement of quest system. Just adding something else to do besides questing, like Public Quests in Warhammer Online?

It is a complete replacement of the quest system. You have no quest journal. You get awarded experience based on your participation in an event, but you dont need to speak to anyone to start it, and you dont have to stick around until the end.

The heart quests are the closest thing to a traditional quest. They usually comprise of helping out a citizen by killing nearby pests or doing things like farming, cleaning or gathering. These are not the primary source of experience in the game though, the primary leveling system is from dynamic event participation.

The storyline is also just a side project to the dynamic event participation, to give yourself a bit of character background. Yes you get experience from it, but no it will not level you up to 80.

So yes, it is a complete replacement of traditional quests. You will level up by participating in events. Not by running from quest hub to quest hub and collecting quests.

Basically if you follow the hearts from 1 to 80 you will have a linear questing system...however you will miss out on hundreds if not thousands of dynamic events that are not affiliated or are near the heart quest NPC's.

 

Basically if you ever played Skyrim or Morrowind and ignored the main quests and just ran looking for stuff to do you eventually (sooner rather then later) will come across a dynamic event.  See a Mountain, hillside, or forest in the distance, then run to it..chances are theres a DE close by or better yet rares mobs, jumping puzzles, mini lairs or NPC;s offering to sell you valuable items.

  User Deleted
8/05/12 5:52:32 AM#63
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Tarka

Rift is like WoW and others games, it sends you down a semi-linear path of progression.  GW2 does not.  In Rift, you do one quest hub and then move to the next.  In GW2 you do not do that, instead you speak to "Scouts" who tell you where the action is happening (i.e. the "Hearts" systems) and it's up to you, the player, to decide whether to get involved in it.  There is no actual linear path in any one area. 


 

Should I assume that Dynamic events are replacing quests and instead of moving trhough story line you move from "Heart" to "Heart"?

Is there any story? How does it work with "Hearts"? How do you progress in that story?

Thanks.

 

Heart quests were introduced for people who didnt quite get the concept of dynamic events.

There is a seperate storyline quest which takes you out of the open world and gives you your own instances for the story to take place.

Hearts are completely irrelevant to the story. They are just there to give a bit of a helping hand to people who are too dumb to understand dynamic events alone. They phase heart quests out as you level up and you are expected to rely more on dynamic events.

Or for that WoW mentality of players who do not understand or fathom the meaning of the word freedom or exploration.  Of the 2 things I dislike greatly about GW2, the heart quests and scout system is by far the worst.

I agree, and it has led to people assuming that the whole game comprises of these heart quests and that you are just  supposed to run from heart to heart.

The amount of xp you get for doing heart quests compared to dynamic events is minimal, especially as you level past the newbie zones. People need to realise that they are just markers to direct you to visit that part of the map (and to give you a guaranteed item upgrade), they arent there as the primary leveling path.

  User Deleted
8/05/12 5:52:32 AM#64
Double post
  Tarka

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/07
Posts: 1673

Free speech is a right, common sense is a duty.

8/05/12 6:08:52 AM#65
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Tarka
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Tutu2
Is this a fair assessment? I keep hearing the story and voice acting is somewhat lucklustre, which is concerning me also. 

Either a troll post or highly misinformed.

 

Rift = WoW with Dynamic Events that are not a core design component of the game, in fact it takes away from the game much the same way WAR's PQ's did.  Rift is also very much a gear grind, raid centric, elitist mentality, vertical slog through hell.  Tab target borefest of a combat system......and to top it off Rift allows you to macro all 3089457835 skilsl to one button....yawn inducing combat.  Crappy World PvP, they even had to make shit up (PvP rifts LOL)to create the illusion of having world pvp.

 

GW2 = Innovation out the ass.  Dynamic events, is the only questing system in place, there is no conventional and linear threadmilll.  No Trinity to slow your group making compostions down.  Innovative combat where you need to move or get smuched, dodge mechanic to assist with creating a fast paced game style reminescent of action games.  You also have no vertical progression, its all horizontal, gear has stats but the good stuff only looks better.  WvW is hands down the best form of PvP which pits 3 factions (or in this case worlds) against each other, hell Rift even lolcopied it.

 

Rift is old and bust.....GW2 is the new hotness!


 Don't confuse the "Dynamic Events" system with the "Hearts" system.   The "Hearts" system is like a semi-dynamic system but are statically set in particular places.  The "Dynamic Events" can move across the landscape.   And there could be quite a few DE's going on in one area.

Sorry dont see where you see in my post where I confused heart quests, I didnt even mention heart quests in my post.  I think you meant to quote a post above mine.

Here's what you posted:

"Dynamic events, is the only questing system in place,......"

You mention the Dynamic Events system, but contrary to what you posted, that isn't the "only" system in place. 

The "Hearts" system is also in place as well.  The two aren't the same thing.

  Omnifish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 608

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

8/05/12 6:11:30 AM#66
Originally posted by Tutu2
Is this a fair assessment? I keep hearing the story and voice acting is somewhat lucklustre, which is concerning me also. 

 

Not really, the personal stories are presented in a different way then Rifts story is.  The reason people might say their lacklustre is that there rather chessy and cliched, some of them do have their moments though.  Most people will probably do them for the fat xp bonus rather then seeing what happens next in the narrative.  Their not exactly SWTOR or TSW in terms of engaging plotlines.

Rift probably has a better way of giving your actions context in the world, there are clear foes/threats and theres a reason to deal with them. GW2 doesn't really have an all encompassing plotline that's presented to you, although there is one.  This might be to do with the variety of races and their own indivdiual stories, so it's more down to the player to discover it for themselves, or just run off into the wilds for events, which don't really have any context.

 

Rift in terms of story is very old school, it has quest hubs with the usual four different types of quest and a poorer implementation of the PQ system that was originated by these guys.  GW2 has the similar variety of quests, (although it may surprise you, i.e. Raven God quest for the Norns), but the empathise is more of scaling events and finding them for yourselfs.  

So in terms of story I'd say RIFT has one presented to you GW2 has one that you have to seek out.

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  Tarka

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/07
Posts: 1673

Free speech is a right, common sense is a duty.

8/05/12 6:14:19 AM#67
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Tarka

 

Close, but no.

The "Hearts" system is the replacement of the standard quest systems you find in other MMO's. But one does not necessarily lead you to another.

The "Dynamic Events" system is as it sounds, events that are ALSO taking place in the zone which you can get involved in and change in accordance with outcomes.

There is also a "personal story" which isn't connected with the above. It can take place in instanced locations set in cities or in the outside world.

In short, the three take place in the same areas of the game, but aren't necessarily connected. Together they create a variance in what the player experiences that is more than what can be experienced in other games, whilst allowing the player to do what they want, when they want


 

Ah.

So no replacement of quest system. Just adding something else to do besides questing, like Public Quests in Warhammer Online?

EDIT: If Hearts means Renown Hearts it does not seem to be anything like Public Quests but side quests.

The "Hearts" system is a bit like (but not exactly the same as) traditional quests, whilst the DE system is perhaps more like the PQ's in WAR.

As others have said, the combination of the "Renown Hearts" system and the Dynamic Events system essentially replaces the entirety of the tradtional quest system found in other games like WoW, Rift, AOC, TOR, etc, etc. 

This combination is a more fluidic and dynamic system allowing players to "feel" that the environment in which they are inhabiting is constantly shifting in its state, thus giving the feeling of being in a living and breathing virtual "world".

I didn't play WAR so I really cannot comment on its similarities to GW2 in this respect, but I'd guess that the GW2 systems essentially took the concept of the PQ's in WAR, and evolved refined it to remove the problems (e.g. what happens when there isn't enough people doing them).  

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6829

8/05/12 6:28:38 AM#68


Originally posted by Tarka

The "Hearts" system is a bit like (but not exactly the same as) traditional quests, whilst the DE system is perhaps more like the PQ's in WAR.

As others have said, the combination of the "Renown Hearts" system and the Dynamic Events system essentially replaces the entirety of the tradtional quest system found in other games like WoW, Rift, AOC, TOR, etc, etc. 

This combination is a more fluidic and dynamic system allowing players to "feel" that the environment in which they are inhabiting is constantly shifting in its state, thus giving the feeling of being in a living and breathing virtual "world".

I didn't play WAR so I really cannot comment on its similarities to GW2 in this respect, but I'd guess that the GW2 systems essentially took the concept of the PQ's in WAR, and evolved refined it to remove the problems (e.g. what happens when there isn't enough people doing them).  


Yes, that is how I understand it too. Just I am considering a word "replacement" too strong and inappropriate. Mechanics are the same, function and role differs. Maybe a matter of perspective tho - replacement as in progression design perception.

GW2 seems to have same quest/progression systems like any other game but the emphasis on each part is different.

Again, thanks for all the replies!

  Tarka

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/07
Posts: 1673

Free speech is a right, common sense is a duty.

8/05/12 8:12:53 AM#69
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Tarka

The "Hearts" system is a bit like (but not exactly the same as) traditional quests, whilst the DE system is perhaps more like the PQ's in WAR.

 

As others have said, the combination of the "Renown Hearts" system and the Dynamic Events system essentially replaces the entirety of the tradtional quest system found in other games like WoW, Rift, AOC, TOR, etc, etc. 

This combination is a more fluidic and dynamic system allowing players to "feel" that the environment in which they are inhabiting is constantly shifting in its state, thus giving the feeling of being in a living and breathing virtual "world".

I didn't play WAR so I really cannot comment on its similarities to GW2 in this respect, but I'd guess that the GW2 systems essentially took the concept of the PQ's in WAR, and evolved refined it to remove the problems (e.g. what happens when there isn't enough people doing them).  


 

Yes, that is how I understand it too. Just I am considering a word "replacement" too strong and inappropriate. Mechanics are the same, function and role differs. Maybe a matter of perspective tho - replacement as in progression design perception.

GW2 seems to have same quest/progression systems like any other game but the emphasis on each part is different.

 

Again, thanks for all the replies!

I disagree.  It is a replacement.   The mechanics are very different between the "Renown Heart" system (i.e. "Hearts" quests) and the traditional quest systems in other games.  For instance:

1)  A player doesn't have to talk to an npc to do a "Heart" quest.  The moment the player enters into the range of the quest, it automatically appears on their tracker list.  The player can still go and talk to an npc to get more background on the task if they choose, but it's not mandatory in order to begin the quest.

2)  The player doesn't get a progress bar that applies solely to their own progress in the task, instead they see a "communal" progress for everyone taking part in the "Heart" quest.  I don't know if WAR had something similar for its PQ system, but I'd guess that it did.

3)  The player is given various ways to complete the "Heart" quest.  There isn't just one set way to complete the quest.  For instance, a farmer might need cattle feeding, fires putting out and giant worms killing.  Players can choose which to do, and participation in ANY of the different ways will add to the communal progress of the task. 

4)  The outcome can change.  Thus the end result is not always the same e.g. a "Queen" may turn up after killing minions.  Sometimes it may not.

 

In short, at "face value" it may seem the same as a traditional quest system found in other games, but it actually differs in various ways. 

Nevertheless, there is no "traditional" linear quest system in GW2.  It doesn't exist.  Instead, in its place is the combination of "Renown Hearts" system mentioned above and the "Dynamics Events" system which helps players progress in levels by giving them XP, Karma (Renown) and money as rewards.

  Tarka

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/07
Posts: 1673

Free speech is a right, common sense is a duty.

8/05/12 8:26:47 AM#70
Originally posted by BlackestNite
the touch of SWTOR lingers in the minds of men even after death.


I wouldn't blame TOR, it's just that GW2's "quest" systems (and I use that term loosely) are subtlely different, and yet at face value they may look initially identical to what came before (albeit with a slightly cosmetic difference).  It's natural, after all, to draw comparisons and try to compare/compartmentise/label something to what one has experienced previously.  Even though such an assumption / label may be very inaccurate.

In the end, it's only when someone actually plays the game that they realise the core difference between the "quest system" in GW2 compared to others.   It's neither TOR's fault, not the fault of any other MMO.  People are merely drawing on their experiences.

  Ubel12

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/17/03
Posts: 154

8/05/12 8:32:24 AM#71
For real the voice acting does suck badly.  It does. This is not me hating, it is just fact. Also, when you go down and have to do abilities to save yourself, your character say's, "I need healing, for real!". Or something out of sorts which drives me crazy. However, the game is GREAT!! It has awesome Charater animations which have been missing in a lot of MMO's, and the graphics are amazing as well. And all this comes in a free to play purchase! AMAZING!
sgtdoom12 Xfire Miniprofile
  Skuz

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Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1038

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8/05/12 8:32:36 AM#72

Nothing like RIFT in my opinion.

It's more a fun romp through scripted events designed to cope with a handful to hundreds of players with less focus on individual skill & responsibility.

No idea on dungeons but I can imagine they will be much less forgiving & the area where the real challenges lie.

  Tarka

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Joined: 10/26/07
Posts: 1673

Free speech is a right, common sense is a duty.

8/05/12 8:37:57 AM#73
Originally posted by BlackestNite
Originally posted by Tarka
Originally posted by BlackestNite
the touch of SWTOR lingers in the minds of men even after death.


I wouldn't blame TOR, it's just that GW2's "quest" systems (and I use that term loosely) are subtlely different that at face value they may seem identical to what came before.  It's natural, after all, to draw comparisons and try to compartmentise/label something to be the same as something else one has experienced.  Even though such a label may be very inaccurate.

In the end, it's only when someone actually plays the game that they realise the core difference between the "quest system" in GW2 compared to others. 

i'm only referring to the attitude of most former swtor lovers toward the game. i held off interest for months on the word of such people and when i played i discovered the opposite of nearly every BS tale they spun.


Well, I can agree that TOR does seem to have a large portion of players who feverishly defend it at all costs.  More than certain other MMO's.  Such individuals are unable to look upon other games objectively and acknowledge that TOR has faults.  Unfortunately such misguided players aren't helping the continued development of TOR, they are actually hindering it.  But they cannot see that.  Instead, they label anyone with even the most mild concerns about TOR as a "Hater", and distill the designs and features of all other MMO's down to the point of absurdity in order to try to lessen their appeal.

These are the individuals who will stick with the game and wonder why everyone is leaving when they are having so much fun.

Blind fanboys:  The suckers of the MMO industry.

  Tarka

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/07
Posts: 1673

Free speech is a right, common sense is a duty.

8/05/12 8:40:15 AM#74
Originally posted by Ubel12
For real the voice acting does suck badly.  It does. This is not me hating, it is just fact. Also, when you go down and have to do abilities to save yourself, your character say's, "I need healing, for real!". Or something out of sorts which drives me crazy. However, the game is GREAT!! It has awesome Charater animations which have been missing in a lot of MMO's, and the graphics are amazing as well. And all this comes in a free to play purchase! AMAZING!


I will admit that I find certain human character responses when you kill things etc are annoying.  But others aren't too bad.  For me, such a thing is a minor point, I learn to block them out, or turn the sound down :)

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2197

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

8/05/12 8:42:51 AM#75
Originally posted by Vaelgard
How about you research the game first?  Thanks.


Yeah wtf, he should do some research, like asking people who have played it in the forums.....
where no one acts like a d*bag

  Preacher26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 376

"This isn't good or bad. It's just the way of things. Nothing stays the same."

8/05/12 8:45:09 AM#76
Dynamic Events and Rifts/invasions are pretty similiar for mechanics but are presented in a much different way.

  paulocafalli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/11/05
Posts: 258

8/05/12 8:50:49 AM#77
Originally posted by Preacher26
Dynamic Events and Rifts/invasions are pretty similiar for mechanics but are presented in a much different way.

Exactly, those may seem to be similar but they are presented diferently. Other than that the two games are very diferent. Specialy because RIFT is completely gear dependant.

paulocafalli Xfire Miniprofile
  Reflection2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/19/04
Posts: 11

8/05/12 8:53:21 AM#78
Originally posted by Tarka
2)  The player doesn't get a progress bar that applies solely to their own progress in the task, instead they see a "communal" progress for everyone taking part in the "Heart" quest.  I don't know if WAR had something similar for its PQ system, but I'd guess that it did.

 

This is not true - the heart progress bar is individual for each person. They are different to the dynamic event progress bar which counts the contribution of everyone in the area. You can often complete heart quests by doing a nearby dynamic event which may lead to some of this confusion.

From my extensive time playing Rift and taking part in the dynamic events they had, my main hated was mob tagging. As a fully raid geared cleric it was not efficient to do anything but solo if you wanted to earn PAs, and I would rarely join public groups as it simply slowed things down. I tended to avoid other players when grinding or doing dailies. My whole guild was the same, no one ever grouped outside of raids and the 15 mins for a daily dungeon, and arguments often broke out over the best soloing spots such as Talos Landing. When I did join a public group during an event there was always some asshat who was ungrouped tagging the mobs so the group did not get any experience or loot. 

Compared to this Guild Wars 2 is a complete breath of fresh air. Actually being happy to see other players in the world! Helping people and being helped! I mean, even apart from the thousands of other improvements GW2 has over Rift, this was just mind blowing for me.

  Tutu2

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 557

 
OP  8/05/12 8:54:57 AM#79
Originally posted by Tarka

OP, ignore the morons calling you a troll. 

Rift and GW2 have "dynamic elements" to them and such dynamic elements do indeed move across the landscape in both games.  BUT, that's where the similarities end.   Don't be fooled into thinking one is a clone of the other just because of that.

Rift is like WoW and others games, it sends you down a semi-linear path of progression.  GW2 does not.  In Rift, you do one quest hub and then move to the next.  In GW2 you do not do that, instead you speak to "Scouts" who tell you where the action is happening (i.e. the "Hearts" systems) and it's up to you, the player, to decide whether to get involved in it.  There is no actual linear path in any one area. 

In Rift you have long lists of abilities, some of which are very similar between the "Roles".  In GW2, you do not have so many abilities tied to the "Role".  Instead you have abilities tied to the weapon of your choice, abilities which upgrade the more you use them.

 

In short, in GW2:

1)  The player has more options to do what they want to do than previous MMO's did.  Removing some of the "linearity" that was felt in other games like Rift, AOC, TOR and WoW.

2)  The "Dynamic Events" system is massively varied on a per zone basis and it evolves based on what the players do.  I believe the devs said that they are going to add more dynamic events in the zones, thus creating even more variance on what can happen.

3)  The abilities system is more "streamlined" than in Rift.  Thus whilst reducing the number of abilities that the player can use with any one weapon, allows for a more "streamlined" UI.  After all, its not often that we feel the need to use every single ability given to us in these games, just the most useful ones.

I hope that clears up some confusion.

My god thank you! Exactly what I was looking for. Concise and polite. And Lol @ the troll labels.  

  User Deleted
8/05/12 8:55:21 AM#80
GW2's dynamic events are to Rift's pseudo dynamic content (Rifts, Invasions) what a Ferrari Enzo is to a Trabant... ;-)
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