SWTOR’s intended player base is not hardcore gamers who are looking for innovation in MMOs.  These are looking for a new thrill, and are not satisfied with MMOs as they exist today. Furthermore, they have rejected the game and moved on and and are now looking for GW2 and other games to break new ground for them. Good luck guys and gals.

SWTOR does appeal to hardcore gamers who are satisfied with incremental innovation in MMOs.  I count myself among this number, and I love the game. BW has added its special touch to MMOs by getting rid of text box quest givers and introduced us to a vibrant, interesting set of story lines that involve us in conversations with the non-player character world. They have made innovations in crafting by getting rid of roaming the lands looking for resources, and other small steps. Kudos BW!

SWTOR’s intended player base is Star Wars fans. Most of these have never even heard of a MMO, much less played one. But they, my son among them, love the thing that is Star Wars. They have models, collections, toys, and copies of the movies which they watch over and over again wishing there was more to the story. BW has brought them that story, and almost 2 million of them responded by buying the game. They liked the game, but they weren’t prepared to pay $15 a month for it and they began slipping away.

The decision to go F2P will reach these fans and the game will surpass WOW in population.  They will come in droves and learn the basics of MMOs as they explore the Star Wars universe. Wookies, Jedi, especially Jedi, the Republic, space ships, and new stories—they are all there. The game can’t help but be a success now.

BW, LucasArts, and EA knew who they were after, but they erred in thinking these fans would come to a subscription based MMO. They’ve seen the error of their ways and they are correcting it. A great future lies ahead for them and for the players.

The bottom line is that SWTOR will survive and prosper, and that’s all we wanted in the first place.

"Hardcore gamers" are still going to have to pay a sub to access raid content. They are limited in the amount of flahpoints they can do. They have only limited access to PvP. I think they can only do a certain amount of space missions as well.

I think you mean that their F2P option will attract casuals - the people that just like relaxing and playing a 10 - 20 hours a week and have little to no interest in raiding or being competitive in PvP. 

I'm really kind of confused about their payment model to be honest. It just doesn't sound all that well thought out. They must be expecting that people will like the game so much that they will want to sub. Which flys directly in the face of what you say in your post - that people left because they don't want to pay a sub.

Originally posted by Ahnog
.

SWTOR’s intended player base is not hardcore gamers who are looking for innovation in MMOs.  These are looking for a new thrill, and are not satisfied with MMOs as they exist today. Furthermore, they have rejected the game and moved on and and are now looking for GW2 and other games to break new ground for them. Good luck guys and gals.

SWTOR does appeal to hardcore gamers who are satisfied with incremental innovation in MMOs.  I count myself among this number, and I love the game. BW has added its special touch to MMOs by getting rid of text box quest givers and introduced us to a vibrant, interesting set of story lines that involve us in conversations with the non-player character world. They have made innovations in crafting by getting rid of roaming the lands looking for resources, and other small steps. Kudos BW!

SWTOR’s intended player base is Star Wars fans. Most of these have never even heard of a MMO, much less played one. But they, my son among them, love the thing that is Star Wars. They have models, collections, toys, and copies of the movies which they watch over and over again wishing there was more to the story. BW has brought them that story, and almost 2 million of them responded by buying the game. They liked the game, but they weren’t prepared to pay $15 a month for it and they began slipping away.

The decision to go F2P will reach these fans and the game will surpass WOW in population.  They will come in droves and learn the basics of MMOs as they explore the Star Wars universe. Wookies, Jedi, especially Jedi, the Republic, space ships, and new stories—they are all there. The game can’t help but be a success now.

BW, LucasArts, and EA knew who they were after, but they erred in thinking these fans would come to a subscription based MMO. They’ve seen the error of their ways and they are correcting it. A great future lies ahead for them and for the players.

The bottom line is that SWTOR will survive and prosper, and that’s all we wanted in the first place.

So althought you consider yourself a hardcore mmorpg gamer, it doesn't bother you that ToR is essentially a single player game with a chatbox and doesn't even function properly as an mmorpg?

I agree they have now realised they made a mistake with the sub model, but that wasn't because subbing in itself was the problem, it was because the game wasn't worth the sub. You draw the conclusion that the problem lay with asking for a sub, not with a below-par mmorpg. I disagree. If it was good enough and worth playing for $15 a month, subbers would have carried on, it wasn't so they didn't.

While i can agree with you that f2p is the right way to go, for all the reasons you stated.  i wouldn't count on this game surpassing WOW's numbers.  

i'm not certain there is a 10 million person population overlap of Star Wars fans who are only concerned that the MMO they wish to play is a Star Wars one.  

At best i see this game exposing a few Star Wars fans to the genre where they will find other games with superior gameplay/content. Don't get me wrong though, i do agree some fans will stick around just because they like SW or the game for what it is.

from everything i've heard their sub numbers aren't quite rock bottom -- but i have no idea how they measure and report those.  i wonder if this f2p is timed such that they never have to do so and expose the true magnitude of their dropoff.  but i could just be seeing conspiracy where it is not, i'm not wise to these matters.

No sadly F2P is made to farm out money of those fans who has it .
It is done to increased the revenue , not get new players or old players back.
While it is done on purpose and every F2P slogan is to get new players .

Sadly SWTOR , the audience was flawed , you have people moaning in the game and still on the forums.
How stinky the game is , how bad everything is .
But then I think are you the idiot ? for paying a game you do not enjoy !.
So basically that is what went wrong , wrong timing wrong audience .
Definetly at the cost of Bioware Fans .

Cause I had no issue with the game , infact I loved it .
I had fun doing my dailies , what I hated was the moans and drama of people.
Complaining everyday , they don´t have fun .
But still they pay , play , moan and complain .

Was hoping those people would leave and a beter community was formed .
But alas no , infact after 6 months , I would have tought all the rotten apples moved on .
If not why are they still there ?
Only hypocrites who complain remain , they demand right this , right that .
But in the meantime they are idiots for keep paying to play for something they do not enjoy .

Originally posted by ste2000
OP you are not an hardcore gamer, be honest. Hardcore gamers want to play, not watch a cinematic play for minutes every step of the way. SWTOR has failed. It could not match WOW subxcription as predicted by their clueless marketing department, and they passed to Plan B, the F2P card in order to limit the damage. This is the truth, no matter how you wanna spin it OP, because you are spinning it OP, aren't you? But maybe you are trying it to hard......

I think you should talk more about how 'I am a hardcore gamer therefore every hardcore gamer is like me!'

Speak more on behalf of other people please.

Jesus christ. /facepalm

I still don't understand the logic of 'failed' though. A product is profitable for a company = Fail?

How does that logic work? HOW?

Originally posted by Ahnog
Sorry to Disappoint, but I'm just a MMOer. who would like to see more posts on the positive aspect of the game.

Well what are the positive mmo aspects of the game? You think this game is brilliant and say you're an mmog player, but from what I saw playing ToR, it has almost no qualities as an mmog in open world play. Please don't say Flashpoints and Heroics, or even PVP, because they are simply multiplayer instances and hardly encourage mmo play across the wider open world.

This is a solid single player game that should have been marketed and sold as KotOR 3 and not as an mmorpg.

Originally posted by drake_hound

No sadly F2P is made to farm out money of those fans who has it .
It is done to increased the revenue , not get new players or old players back.
While it is done on purpose and every F2P slogan is to get new players .

Sadly SWTOR , the audience was flawed , you have people moaning in the game and still on the forums.
How stinky the game is , how bad everything is .
But then I think are you the idiot ? for paying a game you do not enjoy !.
So basically that is what went wrong , wrong timing wrong audience .
Definetly at the cost of Bioware Fans .

Cause I had no issue with the game , infact I loved it .
I had fun doing my dailies , what I hated was the moans and drama of people.
Complaining everyday , they don´t have fun .
But still they pay , play , moan and complain .

Was hoping those people would leave and a beter community was formed .
But alas no , infact after 6 months , I would have tought all the rotten apples moved on .
If not why are they still there ?
Only hypocrites who complain remain , they demand right this , right that .
But in the meantime they are idiots for keep paying to play for something they do not enjoy .

Easy to say on your part.  Some of those players may be voicing their opinions in a poor way, and some may have prepaid for 6 or 12 months in advance.  If you don't want to hear people's opinions in a multiplayer game then I suggest you look up the ignore feature.  Your implied desire for people to shut up or get out does not help the game, neither does public whining in game.

Cheers!

They did not go after star wars fans, the called it star wars assuming they would play it then they made it to get the wow fans. Did u see the armor? All diet coke wow. They ignored hundreds of star wars armor and made wow garbage. This demon was star wars, and mmo, in name only.

Originally posted by Ahnog
.

...

SWTOR’s intended player base is Star Wars fans.

 

 

Eh, I disagree. I don't much like Star Wars (it's pretty mediocre science fiction to me), but I still think I am this game's intended playerbase. After all, I do like Bioware games when they come with good stories and memorable characters, and I will stick to them till I complete the story.  

And yes, this game's intended playerbase is someone who will play a class story and two and quit. Gordon Walton said it himself a few years back; he said MMO developers shouldn't worry that much about keeping their players playing, they should "just let them quit"... Well, that's what I did! :)

People make a big deal out of the fact that this is Star Wars, and I guess quite some of the backlash has to do with that... But really, to me it's almost a perk. Could do with another science fiction universe (probably even prefer it), and wouldn't change my opinion on the game itself much. 

I am sick of hearing that this game is a single player game. I don't know who and i wont guess what BW's intended target audience is/was but i can guarantee it isn't the space bar through conversation, race to end game crowd.  I know this because no game is targeted to players like that. I continue to see posts about how great it was to 50 then nothing to do. Well sad to state the obvious but if you play a new release title like its your job you are going to run out of content.  So people race to end game never grouping for heroics or forming raids to take on world bosses and say the game is co-op. I thought my job can be frustrating at times, i wouldn't change places with a game developer to save my life.

Originally posted by Ahnog
.

SWTOR’s intended player base is not hardcore gamers who are looking for innovation in MMOs [citation needed] .  These are looking for a new thrill, and are not satisfied with MMOs as they exist today. Furthermore, they have rejected the game and moved on and and are now looking for GW2 and other games to break new ground for them. Good luck guys and gals.

SWTOR does appeal to hardcore gamers who are satisfied with incremental innovation in MMOs  [citation needed for incremental innovation].  I count myself among this number, and I love the game. BW has added its special touch to MMOs by getting rid of text box quest givers and introduced us to a vibrant, interesting set of story lines that involve us in conversations with the non-player character world. They have made innovations in crafting by getting rid of roaming the lands looking for resources, and other small steps. Kudos BW!

SWTOR’s intended player base is Star Wars fans. Most of these have never even heard of a MMO [citation needed] , much less played one. But they, my son among them, love the thing that is Star Wars. They have models, collections, toys, and copies of the movies which they watch over and over again wishing there was more to the story. BW has brought them that story, and almost 2 million of them responded by buying the game. They liked the game, but they weren’t prepared to pay $15 a month for it and they began slipping away.

The decision to go F2P will reach these fans and the game will surpass WOW in population [citation needed] .  They will come in droves and learn the basics of MMOs as they explore the Star Wars universe. Wookies, Jedi, especially Jedi, the Republic, space ships, and new stories—they are all there. The game can’t help but be a success now.

BW, LucasArts, and EA knew who they were after, but they erred in thinking these fans would come to a subscription based MMO. They’ve seen the error of their ways and they are correcting it. A great future lies ahead for them and for the players [citation needed].

The bottom line is that SWTOR will survive and prosper, and that’s all we wanted in the first place.

The only truth in this nice piece of advertising is that people were not prepared to pay $15 a month for what they were getting in return.

As to them having a specific target market, doubtful.  SWTOR fans were one group, but WoW fans were also another group, adults were one group but the watered down challenge made it appealing to kids as well.  The game tried to appeal to everyone, while in the end driving the vast majority of gamers away (2.4M tried it, 0.5M are currently with it).

Most people don't care what the background theme of a game is -- if it is good they will play it.  It's not like someone will scoff and play only one genre and that's it.  If that were the case then everyone playing TSW in it's "present day Earth world" mystery-theme setting would be brand new to MMO's.

Originally posted by imagina

At first, i was like... "not sure if serious..."

Then i saw Ahnog's forum activities that consist of approximatively one thing...

Originally posted by karmath
Todays thread has been brought to you by Electronic Arts, Lucas Arts and Coca Cola.

^ Perfectly sum up my thoughts.

 

 

Except the OP is somewhat correct.

That's kind of a problem with these forums. It seems there are posters who think that every game that is made and that they are interested in, is meant for them.

It's very clear that the gamut of games, though there are similarties, do speak to different players in different ways.

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

Except the OP is somewhat correct.

That's kind of a problem with these forums. It seems there are posters who think that every game that is made and that they are interested in, is meant for them.

It's very clear that the gamut of games, though there are similarties, do speak to different players in different ways.

 

Exactly. This game was advertised as a story centric game and that is exactly what it is.  Obviously it's not a game for people who like to just rush to engame and not give a damn about lore. Those people have already been catered to enough as far I'm concerned . Bioware went a different direction and so did Funcom with TSW. For those that don't like cutscenes and think gameplay is all that matters, you have an entire library of past and future MMOs to play with.   Stop being so selfish.  Not every game is meant to cater to your special needs. 

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by ste2000

 

I still don't understand the logic of 'failed' though. A product is profitable for a company = Fail?

How does that logic work? HOW?

That's because you don't understand how big business work.

Ever heard about Profit Margin?

Well, if SWTOR is profitable (which I doubt) surely it has a really tiny Margin.

EVE :Small Costs and High Profit = High Margin

WOW: High Costs and High Profit = Good Margin

SWTOR: High Costs and Low Profit = Low Margin

A tiny profit for a big Company is a failure, investors do not give them funds to make a TINY profit, that's not how business work.

Battlefield  and FiFA games compared to SWTOR give EA  much better margin and return, that's why they make so many sequels.

Put it this way, if SWTOR was a single player game, it won't have a sequel.

But if I think that Financially SWTOR is a disaster, let's talk about SWTOR and its place in the gaming industry.

SWTOR was meant to be WOW main challenger, that's what Bioware always said.

Well, not only SWTOR didn't manage to de-throne WOW from the top spot , but it didn't get even close to it

This is possibly even a bigger failure than the Financial result, because it means that basically Bioware/EA is not as good developer as their direct competitors Activision/Blizzard, and this dent even further their credibility as game developers after the half disappointment of Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3.

And if Bioware start losing credibility, the whole EA could be in big trouble, because Battlefield and Fifa games alone might not be enough to keep this company going for long.

[mod edit]

Let's keep the thread on topic and argue the merits or demerits of the topic.