Originally posted by Ilaya

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by Gurpslord

 Legendary Weapons

WvWvW

Dynamic Events

Traveling to the lands I Didn't go to and do stuff there.

The Combat System itself is a huge draw

Better looking gear (It's only cool to fight if you're fighting with swag mate)

Exploring the maps and try to do map completes

This and dungeons.

+1

This above is a shitload of work to do as "Endgame Content". But......

The most important thing for me personally is WvWvW. Why? I am an Old DaoC Player and i was all the time looking for a Game which at least comes close to the "old feeling" (you will never find again, i know) and i tell you what; GW2 is sooooooo freaking close to this!!! I get goosebumps when i just think about it.

That will keep me busy for a loooooong time, even that i have a shitload of time to play while others have to work.

I don't understand how people can compare WvW with daoc's RvR. There are no realm points/ranks, no df, no rewards for killing other players, no relics that actually matter, no 8v8. It's pretty much zerg vs zerg. IMO it's much closer to WoW's tarren mill vs southshore or wintergrasp than to DAoC.

Its funny when people claim people are going to get bored in a few months so they will "wait until then" to determine if they want to play the game or not. If you post on these forums, chances are you like to play games with a good value; even if you just play through one story you get WAY more then a 60$ game worth of content. The amount of content for one character to complete blows away games like Skyrim even. I can tell you right now that it will take you roughly 200 hours to complete the story for a character and leveling process, but probably a couple hundred more hours to 100% the map. Do you really think it is worth waiting for that? No. Does it even matter if some people quit in a few months? No.  There will be plenty of people to help grow the game and support it paying for stuff in the gem store/expansions. (Original GW team had around 10 people when it came out, now GW2 has 200+..wonder how they built that team?)

If you don't like it from experiencing the beta sure, thats one thing, but if you think its good but it might not last you are doing yourself a disservice, as a gamer, by not picking up this game. If you approach this game like a regular 60$ MASSIVE RPG, you will like it much more as someone who prefers traditional endgame. If you like the version of endgame they have you will also stick with it as a bonus. Worst case scenario you could play it at launch and each expansion; then still have a blast playing it. Personally I will play it as long as my friends do, but I will hop in and play every time new content/expansions are available regardless because I know it is worth it.

you can either challenge the Dungeons in higher Difficulties, but unlike D3, the game isn't short. And you don't get to experience the whole game that quickly.

D3 needs you to complete the same quests, kill the same bosses.

GW2, once you hit level 80, if you never went down this cavern the first time around, guess what, that cavern is still relevant to you. If you never went to Charr's zone, well you can do that now.

Thats what is different, but really, if you haven't experienced it , wait till release date and try it yourself. You might not understand it till your old MMO habits changes, but it happened to me just with 2 BWE, so it won't take you more than 2 days.

Originally posted by Celcius

 If you post on these forums, chances are you like to play games with a good value; even if you just play through one story you get WAY more then a 60$ game worth of content.

Very true. I stopped playing SWTOR when I stopped having fun, but I would never say I didn't get my money's worth out of it. Unless an MMO is outright terrible, it is hard to imagine it doesn't beat most games for value.

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Ilaya

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by Gurpslord

 Legendary Weapons

WvWvW

Dynamic Events

Traveling to the lands I Didn't go to and do stuff there.

The Combat System itself is a huge draw

Better looking gear (It's only cool to fight if you're fighting with swag mate)

Exploring the maps and try to do map completes

This and dungeons.

+1

This above is a shitload of work to do as "Endgame Content". But......

The most important thing for me personally is WvWvW. Why? I am an Old DaoC Player and i was all the time looking for a Game which at least comes close to the "old feeling" (you will never find again, i know) and i tell you what; GW2 is sooooooo freaking close to this!!! I get goosebumps when i just think about it.

That will keep me busy for a loooooong time, even that i have a shitload of time to play while others have to work.

I don't understand how people can compare WvW with daoc's RvR. There are no realm points/ranks, no df, no rewards for killing other players, no relics that actually matter, no 8v8. It's pretty much zerg vs zerg. IMO it's much closer to WoW's tarren mill vs southshore or wintergrasp than to DAoC.

I spent the last beta weekend playing WvWvW for over 8 hours didn't zerg once was in small groups of about 6 or 7 of us taking over supply camps..  it is much more than zerg vs zerg.  Any large castle seige is going to be a zerg how else you going to take over the castle? The whole point is there is a lot of other options you have that can be completed with a small group. I played daoc back in the day and while maybe the incentives where better in some cases the actually enjoyment and map layout is a ton better for me in gw2.. and there ARE server ranks and rewards for killing players.. have you looked into it at all?

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Ilaya

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by Gurpslord

 Legendary Weapons

WvWvW

Dynamic Events

Traveling to the lands I Didn't go to and do stuff there.

The Combat System itself is a huge draw

Better looking gear (It's only cool to fight if you're fighting with swag mate)

Exploring the maps and try to do map completes

This and dungeons.

+1

This above is a shitload of work to do as "Endgame Content". But......

The most important thing for me personally is WvWvW. Why? I am an Old DaoC Player and i was all the time looking for a Game which at least comes close to the "old feeling" (you will never find again, i know) and i tell you what; GW2 is sooooooo freaking close to this!!! I get goosebumps when i just think about it.

That will keep me busy for a loooooong time, even that i have a shitload of time to play while others have to work.

I don't understand how people can compare WvW with daoc's RvR. There are no realm points/ranks, no df, no rewards for killing other players, no relics that actually matter, no 8v8. It's pretty much zerg vs zerg. IMO it's much closer to WoW's tarren mill vs southshore or wintergrasp than to DAoC.

I spend last beta weekend playing WvWvW for over 8 hours didn't zerg once was in small groups of about 6 or 7 of us taking over supply camps..  it is much more than zerg vs zerg.  Any large castle seige is going to be a zerg how else you going to take over the castle? The whole point is there is a lot of other options you have that can be completed with a small group. I played daoc back in the day and while maybe the incentives where better in some cases the actually enjoyment and map layout is a ton better for me in gw2.. and there ARE server ranks and rewards for killing players.. have you looked into it at all?

You mean server ranking? It's not like realm ranks at all.

from the wiki: Killing an enemy player in WvW will result in experience and loot drops. Loot is randomly generated; the defeated player does not actually lose anything through being defeated. Aside from these individual rewards, there is no particular benefit to fighting other players. As a result, combat will usually occur when attacking or defending an objective.

Originally posted by otinanai123

 

You mean server ranking? It's not like realm ranks at all.

 

from the wiki: Killing an enemy player in WvW will result in experience and loot drops. Loot is randomly generated; the defeated player does not actually lose anything through being defeated. Aside from these individual rewards, there is no particular benefit to fighting other players. As a result, combat will usually occur when attacking or defending an objective.

you said you get no rewards from killing players which isn't true as you quoted the wiki. I'm sorry but when did enjoyment not count as an incentive to fight other players? Then with your last sentance you obviously have not even tried WvWvW so really have no clue or basis to what you are saying.. once you play and see the map layount and how everything works. Objectives are all over and can be done by differn't sized groups depending on what you are doing. 

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by otinanai123

 

You mean server ranking? It's not like realm ranks at all.

 

from the wiki: Killing an enemy player in WvW will result in experience and loot drops. Loot is randomly generated; the defeated player does not actually lose anything through being defeated. Aside from these individual rewards, there is no particular benefit to fighting other players. As a result, combat will usually occur when attacking or defending an objective.

you said you get no rewards from killing players which isn't true as you quoted the wiki. I'm sorry but when did enjoyment not count as an incentive to fight other players? Then with your last sentance you obviously have not even tried WvWvW so really have no clue or basis to what you are saying.. once you play and see the map layount and how everything works. Objectives are all over and can be done by differn't sized groups depending on what you are doing. 

Don't forget this as well.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_of_the_Mists

I hate to get technical here,  but how do we discuss something NONE of us have experienced yet?   All we know about endgame is what we've been told by the Arena Net team.  

It's threads like these before a game is released, that start to misinform the gaming population.   

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by otinanai123

You mean server ranking? It's not like realm ranks at all.

from the wiki: Killing an enemy player in WvW will result in experience and loot drops. Loot is randomly generated; the defeated player does not actually lose anything through being defeated. Aside from these individual rewards, there is no particular benefit to fighting other players. As a result, combat will usually occur when attacking or defending an objective.

you said you get no rewards from killing players which isn't true as you quoted the wiki. I'm sorry but when did enjoyment not count as an incentive to fight other players? Then with your last sentance you obviously have not even tried WvWvW so really have no clue or basis to what you are saying.. once you play and see the map layount and how everything works. Objectives are all over and can be done by differn't sized groups depending on what you are doing. 

Agreed. Even during the last stress test, I spend 4 hours playing WVW with 4 friends. We ran from supplly camp to supply camp, joined in a few zergs, took on enemy players in the middle of nowhere, swtiched sentries to our side and had a blast! I think there is a huge misconception regarding WVW... all I can hope is that as the game is released and word of mouth spreads, people become aware of how much fun WVW truly is :-)

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by otinanai123

 

You mean server ranking? It's not like realm ranks at all.

 

from the wiki: Killing an enemy player in WvW will result in experience and loot drops. Loot is randomly generated; the defeated player does not actually lose anything through being defeated. Aside from these individual rewards, there is no particular benefit to fighting other players. As a result, combat will usually occur when attacking or defending an objective.

you said you get no rewards from killing players which isn't true as you quoted the wiki. I'm sorry but when did enjoyment not count as an incentive to fight other players? Then with your last sentance you obviously have not even tried WvWvW so really have no clue or basis to what you are saying.. once you play and see the map layount and how everything works. Objectives are all over and can be done by differn't sized groups depending on what you are doing. 

Enjoyment yes. Tarren mill was also about enjoyment. We had fun for a few weeks, after that people got bored and moved on to other things.

These rewards aren't enough, especially for level 80s. And yes, I did some WvW in all BWEs.

I'm not saying WvW's bad, but please don't compare it to RvR.

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by otinanai123

 

You mean server ranking? It's not like realm ranks at all.

 

from the wiki: Killing an enemy player in WvW will result in experience and loot drops. Loot is randomly generated; the defeated player does not actually lose anything through being defeated. Aside from these individual rewards, there is no particular benefit to fighting other players. As a result, combat will usually occur when attacking or defending an objective.

you said you get no rewards from killing players which isn't true as you quoted the wiki. I'm sorry but when did enjoyment not count as an incentive to fight other players? Then with your last sentance you obviously have not even tried WvWvW so really have no clue or basis to what you are saying.. once you play and see the map layount and how everything works. Objectives are all over and can be done by differn't sized groups depending on what you are doing. 

Enjoyment yes. Tarren mill was also about enjoyment. We had fun for a few weeks, after that people got bored and moved on to other things.

 

These rewards aren't enough, especially for level 80s. And yes, I did some WvW in all BWEs.

 

I'm not saying WvW's bad, but please don't compare it to RvR.

difference is there is a LOT more to do in the WvWvW maps than anything any wow map has to offer. That on top of the much more action oriented not gear dependent combat should keep a lot more people around for a much longer period of time. And for the last one why not? because WvWvW is more enjoyable for many people?

WvsW is actually better than RvR in DAoC ever was. No gear advantage, no advantage through rank abilities, just you, the enemy, and the same tools for both. But then, I don't see DAoC with any kind of romantic nostalgia, but for what it is.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by otinanai123

 

You mean server ranking? It's not like realm ranks at all.

 

from the wiki: Killing an enemy player in WvW will result in experience and loot drops. Loot is randomly generated; the defeated player does not actually lose anything through being defeated. Aside from these individual rewards, there is no particular benefit to fighting other players. As a result, combat will usually occur when attacking or defending an objective.

you said you get no rewards from killing players which isn't true as you quoted the wiki. I'm sorry but when did enjoyment not count as an incentive to fight other players? Then with your last sentance you obviously have not even tried WvWvW so really have no clue or basis to what you are saying.. once you play and see the map layount and how everything works. Objectives are all over and can be done by differn't sized groups depending on what you are doing. 

Enjoyment yes. Tarren mill was also about enjoyment. We had fun for a few weeks, after that people got bored and moved on to other things.

 

These rewards aren't enough, especially for level 80s. And yes, I did some WvW in all BWEs.

 

I'm not saying WvW's bad, but please don't compare it to RvR.

difference is there is a LOT more to do in the WvWvW maps than anything any wow map has to offer. That on top of the much more action oriented not gear dependent combat should keep a lot more people around for a much longer period of time. And for the last one why not? because WvWvW is more enjoyable for many people?

Many people seem to think that attacking keeps is fun because it's something new and WoW didn't have it. It gets boring after a while trust me on this. Only a tiny minority of DAoCers were keep raiders, the rest of us thought they were the most boring part of RvR.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by otinanai123

You mean server ranking? It's not like realm ranks at all.

from the wiki: Killing an enemy player in WvW will result in experience and loot drops. Loot is randomly generated; the defeated player does not actually lose anything through being defeated. Aside from these individual rewards, there is no particular benefit to fighting other players. As a result, combat will usually occur when attacking or defending an objective.

you said you get no rewards from killing players which isn't true as you quoted the wiki. I'm sorry but when did enjoyment not count as an incentive to fight other players? Then with your last sentance you obviously have not even tried WvWvW so really have no clue or basis to what you are saying.. once you play and see the map layount and how everything works. Objectives are all over and can be done by differn't sized groups depending on what you are doing. 

Enjoyment yes. Tarren mill was also about enjoyment. We had fun for a few weeks, after that people got bored and moved on to other things.

These rewards aren't enough, especially for level 80s. And yes, I did some WvW in all BWEs.

I'm not saying WvW's bad, but please don't compare it to RvR.

difference is there is a LOT more to do in the WvWvW maps than anything any wow map has to offer. That on top of the much more action oriented not gear dependent combat should keep a lot more people around for a much longer period of time. And for the last one why not? because WvWvW is more enjoyable for many people?

Otinanai123, you changed your pic!!

I have to agree with Aerowyn, there is a lot to do in WVW, and to assume that because there is no "gear grind" as we have become accustomed to in WOW, there not sufficient incentives for high lvls to keep playing? To many asusmptions.

Originally posted by otinanai123

 

Many people seem to think that attacking keeps is fun because it's something new and WoW didn't have it. It gets boring after a while trust me on this. Only a tiny minority of DAoCers were keep raiders, the rest of us thought they were the most boring part of RvR.

again there is a lot more to WvWvW than just attacking keeps

Originally posted by otinanai123
These rewards aren't enough, especially for level 80s. And yes, I did some WvW in all BWEs.

U see? That is the difference between us mate. I dont need "rewards,rewards,rewards". Ill go there for PvP, that alone, if it is good enough, is THE ultimate reward. I get a bit of loot, thats fine. I get my "pvp coins" where i can buy special armor from, that is reward as well if you want. I can raid keeps with my friends, that is also a reward. I dont need the chatline "Im RR XXX and i r00xer you through the Emain". I simply dont need an E-Peen.

You see what i mean? Or better what i like? That is why taste is different to all of us which is a good thing, or? :)

Me loves it. And one thing beside, there is a relic, it is the Orb. And on the other hand, if you remember, RR in DaoC where not there right from the beginning. And who says that we dont get that as well? This is a new MMO and as we old ones know, no MMO was perfect from the beginning, they all "grow with time".

I think it's ridiculous NOT to compare GW2 WvW with DAoC RvR as they have so many similarities with each other. Both system have specific things in their design directions that differ, but there is nothing about the systems that says they can't be compared. Why the hell would you not compare the two?

There are some good points in this thread.  I think the value-for-money argument listed above is a good one.  Of course when viewed along those lines, there's very little reason not to play GW2 if you like single player games especially.  There's just a lot of content to be played and many many hours of fun.

BUT!  As I've posted, and many others have posted in other threads along these lines, it's not really about whether the game is fun for a few months.  I think what these discussions are really about is "motivation" in the game post level cap.  It's cool that they've gotten rid of the gear grind, I think a lot of people would agree to that.  What's maybe not so cool (and I'm a huge fan of GW2 so I really WANT to like the endgame) is that on hitting 80, the cosmetic rewards might not be enough to motivate a lot of players.

Yes you can repeat or play the rest of the lower level content.

Yes you can do the dungeons.

Yes there is a pretty awesome WvWvW mode (but this is not attractive for some PvE'ers).

But really what people are worried about is a reward system.  People want to "progress" or "evolve" their character in some way that's meaningful (and no, I don't consider different costumes evolving a character).  I think that the skill points will do this for a while, until you max out what stats/skills your character has, but then what?

If I use Rift for a comparison.  I'm not pumping Rift, I'm just using it as an example.  Rift is built on a gear grind system, but it also has a post-level-cap level system called Planar Attunement : http://rift.zam.com/wiki/Planar_Attunement_(Rift)

This lets people continue to do quests, dynamic events, invasions, raids, whatever and leveling up their PA will let them distrubute poitns in this VERY large stat boost system.  Rift also has 11 dungeons which also have multiple modes in which they can be completed (with different rewards).  

I'm sorry to say, that even with so many dungeons, and multiple modes, they still get boring after a while.

But then on top of all this, Rift has 5 raid instances.

And oh yes one more, they have single player (or 2-player) versions of those raids, to include people who prefer not to raid in big groups.

Rift also has a down-leveling system to play with your friends at lower levels, and gain experience towards your Planar Attunement levels.

So back to GW2, it's great and I love it.  I can't wait to play it.  I'm going to love every minute of the leveling up experience, I can tell that already.  The combat, I think, is superior to other games out there.  But I just can't agree with a lot of the hype-posts about "JUST PLAY THE GAME!" or "ENDGAME STARTS AT LEVEL 2!" because I've played that game, and it's just not a valid argument when people question the longevity of the post-level-cap gameplay.