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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Let's talk endgame.

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702 posts found
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15500

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

8/06/12 3:53:56 PM#641
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Distopia

I'm not seeing how GW2 relates though as UO and SWG were about communities providing long-term content, as well as the skill grinding being a path to your "end-game" profession and activity same with EVE. GW2 is still a content based game. The goal is to consume the content, not build the content, it doesn't offer that IMO.

A lot more in common with UO/SWG than WoW/EQ is my point.

Originally posted by Xzen

Correct but in UO once you hit "cap" there was no stat progression. There was only content.

Originally posted by heartless

It relates in the openness of the game's world, in terms of where to go and what to do. You're not stuck in endgame zones and instances like in typical themeparks. You can go anywhere and the content will never be trivial.

I guess I can see what you guys are saying here, that there's no single goal to do at end-game and they leave the choice up to the player on what to do.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Bladestrom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3239

8/06/12 3:56:47 PM#642
Just scanned through the posts and stopped counting at 20 posts that explicitly itemised 'non cosmetic' end game activities.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Cromica

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 664

8/06/12 3:59:46 PM#643
Originally posted by bcbully
 

 

I'm out forealz this time.

Good

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4738

8/06/12 4:00:15 PM#644
Originally posted by Distopia

I guess I can see what you guys are saying here, that there's no single goal to do at end-game and they leave the choice up to the player on what to do.

Sounds like you kinda got it!

Another way to look at it would be in thinking of Skyrim vs. Final Fantasy. In Skyrim you can rush through the game and beat it pretty quickly, if that's your goal. Or you can go back to areas you passed by and check them out, etc. You're correct, there are a lot of options, and endgame is really what you make of it. It also doesn't magically change from what you have been doing up to that point (hence anet's claim that 'the whole game is endgame').

  Bladestrom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3239

8/06/12 4:06:52 PM#645
a great point to wind up the thread, a bit of common understanding :)

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

8/06/12 4:07:03 PM#646
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Distopia

I guess I can see what you guys are saying here, that there's no single goal to do at end-game and they leave the choice up to the player on what to do.

Sounds like you kinda got it!

Another way to look at it would be in thinking of Skyrim vs. Final Fantasy. In Skyrim you can rush through the game and beat it pretty quickly, if that's your goal. Or you can go back to areas you passed by and check them out, etc. You're correct, there are a lot of options, and endgame is really what you make of it. It also doesn't magically change from what you have been doing up to that point (hence anet's claim that 'the whole game is endgame').

at least someone understands now:)

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Derpybird

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/12
Posts: 1006

8/06/12 4:20:41 PM#647
Originally posted by MidBoss
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by heartless

There is no debate. It's just you trying to come up with at least something that will make GW2 look less appealing. Give it up and go back to your game.

Buddy, I didn't start this fire.

 

62 pages says there is a debate going on. You dening that does not erase this thread.

 

edit - 63 pages.

How many of thoes pages are you refusing to stop spewing the same tired lines? Despite waves of people answering your garbage again and again.

Disgusting that you can continue this cherade with no intervention in sight.

An excellent question.

At the same time, how much effort has been expended by folks to try and change this person's opinion when his position and basic "arguments" have remained the same throughout this 60 pages. This appears to be an agenda, not a discussion.

Sometimes these forums represent an opportunity for a sincere exchange of information or debate, where people are willing to change or modify their opinions based on new data.

Do you think that is what is happening here?

"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  stevebmbsqd

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

8/06/12 4:21:20 PM#648
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by gelraen

There are some good points in this thread.  I think the value-for-money argument listed above is a good one.  Of course when viewed along those lines, there's very little reason not to play GW2 if you like single player games especially.  There's just a lot of content to be played and many many hours of fun.

BUT!  As I've posted, and many others have posted in other threads along these lines, it's not really about whether the game is fun for a few months.  I think what these discussions are really about is "motivation" in the game post level cap.  It's cool that they've gotten rid of the gear grind, I think a lot of people would agree to that.  What's maybe not so cool (and I'm a huge fan of GW2 so I really WANT to like the endgame) is that on hitting 80, the cosmetic rewards might not be enough to motivate a lot of players.

Yes you can repeat or play the rest of the lower level content.

Yes you can do the dungeons.

Yes there is a pretty awesome WvWvW mode (but this is not attractive for some PvE'ers).

But really what people are worried about is a reward system.  People want to "progress" or "evolve" their character in some way that's meaningful (and no, I don't consider different costumes evolving a character).  I think that the skill points will do this for a while, until you max out what stats/skills your character has, but then what?

If I use Rift for a comparison.  I'm not pumping Rift, I'm just using it as an example.  Rift is built on a gear grind system, but it also has a post-level-cap level system called Planar Attunement : http://rift.zam.com/wiki/Planar_Attunement_(Rift)

This lets people continue to do quests, dynamic events, invasions, raids, whatever and leveling up their PA will let them distrubute poitns in this VERY large stat boost system.  Rift also has 11 dungeons which also have multiple modes in which they can be completed (with different rewards).  

I'm sorry to say, that even with so many dungeons, and multiple modes, they still get boring after a while.

But then on top of all this, Rift has 5 raid instances.

And oh yes one more, they have single player (or 2-player) versions of those raids, to include people who prefer not to raid in big groups.

Rift also has a down-leveling system to play with your friends at lower levels, and gain experience towards your Planar Attunement levels.

So back to GW2, it's great and I love it.  I can't wait to play it.  I'm going to love every minute of the leveling up experience, I can tell that already.  The combat, I think, is superior to other games out there.  But I just can't agree with a lot of the hype-posts about "JUST PLAY THE GAME!" or "ENDGAME STARTS AT LEVEL 2!" because I've played that game, and it's just not a valid argument when people question the longevity of the post-level-cap gameplay.

 

 

 

well considering that is Anets whole philosophy of how they built this game why is it not a valid argument? They said time and time again when you hit 80 it's not a complete 180 shift of what you will be doing in the game. The game was designed to play much of how you were leveling from 1-79 at level 80. If you did not enjoy or are the kind who only cares about getting that super rare drop that makes you that much stronger the game will not appeal to you as much. There are a sea of tier based gear grind for power games out there, Anet wanted to do something differn't and as someone who is tired of the gear grind to improve my character type MMO I welcome this new philosophy with open arms. Obviously there are a lot of people out their that enjoy the raid based gear grind endgame but having seen the trend of MMOs in the past decade I think it is time for a change for many people and feel gw2 brings that better than any before it.

No offense, but how do you know it will be enough? How do you know that the level scaling and the branching events will be enough for this to become your main game and that it will last you for  months or years. You have only played a limited amount for a very short period of time. There is no harm in approaching the game skeptically. I think broadly stating something that you haven't experienced as fact is a little presumptive. He wasn't bashing GW2, he was just stating a concern that is completely valid and that no one has the answer too.

  Kuppa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

8/06/12 4:22:28 PM#649
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Celcius

I don't have long since I have a night class soon, but basically read into what I am saying: You say that your opinion on GW2 is the only valid opinion based upon your own view of what games should have. Regardless of number of people who say things on internet forums: it is still an opinion. You are now trying to defend TSW because I was attacking it. You don't like that and pretend to make up statistics based on poor data just to back it up. (Number of registered users on a website as a sample size, you can't be serious) GW2 has no statistical data yet to prove either way other then data like what you have posted. So really there is no win here. Its all opinion. 

The FACT is that GW2 does have an endgame. You just don't like it so you don't count it as end game. By your logic TSW has no end game as well because I do not consider what they have end game. Funny that even on the TSW forums I totally destroyed your arguments --based on opinions as facts-- (the ones you LOVE to bring up) and alot of people backed me up there as they do here. I don't have to make a signature about what I am saying since you will regret it and feel guilty about saying it in the first place. 9/5/12 if there is not a 10 man and 20 man raid you were wrong. Mark the day. I don't have to wait long though considering that you claimed Funcom will announce 750k subs in 2 days. Can't wait !;)

I never said that nor did I create this thread. 

 

I love cosmetics, but cosmetics only as endgame progression? That's thin and stretching it to call it endgame.

pvp, and actually done well.


  stevebmbsqd

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

8/06/12 4:24:27 PM#650
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Xzen
Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

I was thinking this. Glad to see some one else understands.

People who played games like UO and SWG "back in the day" instead of playing games like EQ and then all of its clones really can understand "GW2 endgame" a whole hell of a lot easier.

It was fairly easy to "max out" a toon in games like UO and SWG in terms of raw stats - so what did you do?

First of all the "end game" was not "maxing out" your toon - there really wasn't an end-game it was a journey and about the journey not the destination.

You built stuff, collected stuff, faught people for the sake of fighting them - took control of things for the sake of controlling them... saught ways to make yourself look unique or acquire rare trophies and items to display proudly for your friends and strangers.

You built community and relationships with people and ran and/or participated in events the community constructed.

These "other" MMO players just don't understand why you would spend X amount of time for a cool looking hat if the hat didn't give you any stat bonuses.

Or why you would "waste time" sitting in an inn playing chess.

It's sad. Very, very sad.

I'm not seeing how GW2 relates though as UO and SWG were about communities providing long-term content, as well as the skill grinding being a path to your "end-game" profession and activity same with EVE. GW2 is still a content based game. The goal is to consume the content, not build the content, it doesn't offer that IMO.

It relates in the openness of the game's world, in terms of where to go and what to do. You're not stuck in endgame zones and instances like in typical themeparks. You can go anywhere and the content will never be trivial.

No. GW2 is not a world in the sense that SWG and UO were. GW2 is a game and a pretty good game, but not a world. SWG and UO were true virtual worlds in which people lived second lives. GW2 is more of a beautiful environment where people go to experience some pretty neat content.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15500

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

8/06/12 4:32:42 PM#651
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Distopia

I guess I can see what you guys are saying here, that there's no single goal to do at end-game and they leave the choice up to the player on what to do.

Sounds like you kinda got it!

Another way to look at it would be in thinking of Skyrim vs. Final Fantasy. In Skyrim you can rush through the game and beat it pretty quickly, if that's your goal. Or you can go back to areas you passed by and check them out, etc. You're correct, there are a lot of options, and endgame is really what you make of it. It also doesn't magically change from what you have been doing up to that point (hence anet's claim that 'the whole game is endgame').

Yeah, I can see that as well. I figured that's what they meant by that from the get go. They have their work cut out for them in that regard,  as some have pointed out many of the current generation aren't going to understand such a concept in an MMORPG. They aren't exactly accustomed to making their own way in a game.

Just for clarification I was only questioning something said by Badspock earlier, wasn't really questioning the concept of end-game when it comes to GW2.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

8/06/12 4:33:27 PM#652
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Xzen
Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

I was thinking this. Glad to see some one else understands.

People who played games like UO and SWG "back in the day" instead of playing games like EQ and then all of its clones really can understand "GW2 endgame" a whole hell of a lot easier.

It was fairly easy to "max out" a toon in games like UO and SWG in terms of raw stats - so what did you do?

First of all the "end game" was not "maxing out" your toon - there really wasn't an end-game it was a journey and about the journey not the destination.

You built stuff, collected stuff, faught people for the sake of fighting them - took control of things for the sake of controlling them... saught ways to make yourself look unique or acquire rare trophies and items to display proudly for your friends and strangers.

You built community and relationships with people and ran and/or participated in events the community constructed.

These "other" MMO players just don't understand why you would spend X amount of time for a cool looking hat if the hat didn't give you any stat bonuses.

Or why you would "waste time" sitting in an inn playing chess.

It's sad. Very, very sad.

I'm not seeing how GW2 relates though as UO and SWG were about communities providing long-term content, as well as the skill grinding being a path to your "end-game" profession and activity same with EVE. GW2 is still a content based game. The goal is to consume the content, not build the content, it doesn't offer that IMO.

It relates in the openness of the game's world, in terms of where to go and what to do. You're not stuck in endgame zones and instances like in typical themeparks. You can go anywhere and the content will never be trivial.

No. GW2 is not a world in the sense that SWG and UO were. GW2 is a game and a pretty good game, but not a world. SWG and UO were true virtual worlds in which people lived second lives. GW2 is more of a beautiful environment where people go to experience some pretty neat content.

Re-read what I wrote. GW2 has a world, just like any MMO out there. It's not, however, an emulation of our world.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

8/06/12 4:37:25 PM#653
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
 

No offense, but how do you know it will be enough? How do you know that the level scaling and the branching events will be enough for this to become your main game and that it will last you for  months or years. You have only played a limited amount for a very short period of time. There is no harm in approaching the game skeptically. I think broadly stating something that you haven't experienced as fact is a little presumptive. He wasn't bashing GW2, he was just stating a concern that is completely valid and that no one has the answer too.

because I have played many games in the past and games like skyrim where i put hundreds and hundreds of hours just exploring and enjoying the game. It's not all about better this or better that it's about enjoying whats right in front of you. It's about going out in the world and exploring and enjoying the content presented before you. One of my biggest gripes with many MMOs is complete lack of immersion in the game zones. GW2 is by far the best MMO I have played that gives you the feeling of a living breathing world going on inside the zones. So many have given answers to the question it's up to the individual to weigh those answer and see if that's what they are looking for in a game or not.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  stevebmbsqd

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

8/06/12 4:44:35 PM#654
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Xzen
Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

I was thinking this. Glad to see some one else understands.

People who played games like UO and SWG "back in the day" instead of playing games like EQ and then all of its clones really can understand "GW2 endgame" a whole hell of a lot easier.

It was fairly easy to "max out" a toon in games like UO and SWG in terms of raw stats - so what did you do?

First of all the "end game" was not "maxing out" your toon - there really wasn't an end-game it was a journey and about the journey not the destination.

You built stuff, collected stuff, faught people for the sake of fighting them - took control of things for the sake of controlling them... saught ways to make yourself look unique or acquire rare trophies and items to display proudly for your friends and strangers.

You built community and relationships with people and ran and/or participated in events the community constructed.

These "other" MMO players just don't understand why you would spend X amount of time for a cool looking hat if the hat didn't give you any stat bonuses.

Or why you would "waste time" sitting in an inn playing chess.

It's sad. Very, very sad.

I'm not seeing how GW2 relates though as UO and SWG were about communities providing long-term content, as well as the skill grinding being a path to your "end-game" profession and activity same with EVE. GW2 is still a content based game. The goal is to consume the content, not build the content, it doesn't offer that IMO.

It relates in the openness of the game's world, in terms of where to go and what to do. You're not stuck in endgame zones and instances like in typical themeparks. You can go anywhere and the content will never be trivial.

No. GW2 is not a world in the sense that SWG and UO were. GW2 is a game and a pretty good game, but not a world. SWG and UO were true virtual worlds in which people lived second lives. GW2 is more of a beautiful environment where people go to experience some pretty neat content.

Re-read what I wrote. GW2 has a world, just like any MMO out there. It's not, however, an emulation of our world.

You missed the point. GW2 gives you the content. SWG and UO gave you a little content, but more importantly it gave you the tools to make your own content. That is how SWG and UO were worlds. The endgame was the game and it truly was from level 1. GW2 gives you pretty much all of the content. I am not denying that GW2 has opened the world up and made it's content more relevant through all levels, but it is not the same as what SWG and UO provided. When you hear people pining for a game similar to those, it is because they want a world to live in.....as sad as they may or may not be.

  stevebmbsqd

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

8/06/12 4:48:41 PM#655
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
 

No offense, but how do you know it will be enough? How do you know that the level scaling and the branching events will be enough for this to become your main game and that it will last you for  months or years. You have only played a limited amount for a very short period of time. There is no harm in approaching the game skeptically. I think broadly stating something that you haven't experienced as fact is a little presumptive. He wasn't bashing GW2, he was just stating a concern that is completely valid and that no one has the answer too.

because I have played many games in the past and games like skyrim where i put hundreds and hundreds of hours just exploring and enjoying the game. It's not all about better this or better that it's about enjoying whats right in front of you. It's about going out in the world and exploring and enjoying the content presented before you. One of my biggest gripes with many MMOs is complete lack of immersion in the game zones. GW2 is by far the best MMO I have played that gives you the feeling of a living breathing world going on inside the zones. So many have given answers to the question it's up to the individual to weigh those answer and see if that's what they are looking for in a game or not.

I agree with you here. To this day I still search for a game that gives me a world to play in and the tools to make my own content. Much like TES games. I loved SWG and UO for those reasons. Even though I love sandboxes, I also like GW2. I am  not sure how long the content can hold my interest, but I am looking forward to playing the game in the incredible environments that they have provided.

  Tarka

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/07
Posts: 1673

Free speech is a right, common sense is a duty.

8/06/12 4:50:09 PM#656

I think part of the issue why some don't understand the concept of giving oneself something to do in the game when you reach "max" is the simple fact that a lot of MMO's just don't offer anything other than preset quest chains, raids and pvp warzones. 

the more recent MMO's just don't include some of the "world" type stuff found in games like SWG:

  • Unique and highly sought after items to find.
  • Places of interest to visit.
  • Activities that are outside of the usual scope of "questing" such as "collections".
  • Being able to be one of only a few that can make specific items of worth.
  • Being able to build your own "house" and customise it accordingly, without restriction on what you can put in it.
  • Being able to build ships.
  • The list goes on and on.

I suppose it probably came down to a matter of time and resources, as well as a little hubris that suggested they weren't needed (I'm looking at you Bioware) that stopped these companies from expanding on the games design to be a little less restrictive in what activities could be accomplished in such games.

Perhaps it was the advent of things like achievement systems, LFG tools, long story arcs, voice over, dialogue options and all the other things that we now somewhat take for granted that forced out all the other "world" type stuff simply because there's only so much time in the day.  That along with rising costs, an increase in competition, reduction in time scales and an economic situation putting the squeeze on such companies.

But, as what we are witnessing now, companies are beginning to realise that excuses don't keep players loyal.  Companies have to start going that extra mile just to retain players.

Even Damion Schubert of Bioware once said : 

"Freedom is a true part of the magic of MMOs, and artificial constraints and mechanics can undermine the fiction and the sense that you are living in the virtual world – and when you have a brand as rich and textured as Star Wars™, the last thing you want to do is undermine it. Even worse, the depth and visual splendor of Star Wars™: The Old Republic would be completely lost if players couldn’t jump off the rails and just live in the space from time to time."

I agree with him, in my opinon, the situation should not be EITHER all linear, or all "world" type content.  Because as we've seen in the past, neither extreme is really a "one size fits all" situation.  Instead, BOTH should be included in order to offer players options.

It's just a shame that SWTOR didn't actually accomplish what Damion wanted to see in the game.

  Badaboom

Elite Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2384

8/06/12 4:50:47 PM#657

Level scaling to content is probably GW2's greatest feature.  This ensures that all content updates/expansions is relevant and can be experienced by everybody.

I believe a solid foundation has been laid from Anet enabling this game to continually grow and evolve.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

8/06/12 4:59:06 PM#658
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Xzen
Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

I was thinking this. Glad to see some one else understands.

People who played games like UO and SWG "back in the day" instead of playing games like EQ and then all of its clones really can understand "GW2 endgame" a whole hell of a lot easier.

It was fairly easy to "max out" a toon in games like UO and SWG in terms of raw stats - so what did you do?

First of all the "end game" was not "maxing out" your toon - there really wasn't an end-game it was a journey and about the journey not the destination.

You built stuff, collected stuff, faught people for the sake of fighting them - took control of things for the sake of controlling them... saught ways to make yourself look unique or acquire rare trophies and items to display proudly for your friends and strangers.

You built community and relationships with people and ran and/or participated in events the community constructed.

These "other" MMO players just don't understand why you would spend X amount of time for a cool looking hat if the hat didn't give you any stat bonuses.

Or why you would "waste time" sitting in an inn playing chess.

It's sad. Very, very sad.

I'm not seeing how GW2 relates though as UO and SWG were about communities providing long-term content, as well as the skill grinding being a path to your "end-game" profession and activity same with EVE. GW2 is still a content based game. The goal is to consume the content, not build the content, it doesn't offer that IMO.

It relates in the openness of the game's world, in terms of where to go and what to do. You're not stuck in endgame zones and instances like in typical themeparks. You can go anywhere and the content will never be trivial.

No. GW2 is not a world in the sense that SWG and UO were. GW2 is a game and a pretty good game, but not a world. SWG and UO were true virtual worlds in which people lived second lives. GW2 is more of a beautiful environment where people go to experience some pretty neat content.

Re-read what I wrote. GW2 has a world, just like any MMO out there. It's not, however, an emulation of our world.

You missed the point. GW2 gives you the content. SWG and UO gave you a little content, but more importantly it gave you the tools to make your own content. That is how SWG and UO were worlds. The endgame was the game and it truly was from level 1. GW2 gives you pretty much all of the content. I am not denying that GW2 has opened the world up and made it's content more relevant through all levels, but it is not the same as what SWG and UO provided. When you hear people pining for a game similar to those, it is because they want a world to live in.....as sad as they may or may not be.

Answer these questions:

Does GW2 have a world with different zones, towns, NPCs and monsters?

Is this world open at level 80 or not?

That is all I am saying. Whatever other stuff you were saying about UO and SWG being worlds has absolutely nothing to do with what I am trying to say.

  stevebmbsqd

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

8/06/12 5:02:04 PM#659
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Xzen
Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

I was thinking this. Glad to see some one else understands.

People who played games like UO and SWG "back in the day" instead of playing games like EQ and then all of its clones really can understand "GW2 endgame" a whole hell of a lot easier.

It was fairly easy to "max out" a toon in games like UO and SWG in terms of raw stats - so what did you do?

First of all the "end game" was not "maxing out" your toon - there really wasn't an end-game it was a journey and about the journey not the destination.

You built stuff, collected stuff, faught people for the sake of fighting them - took control of things for the sake of controlling them... saught ways to make yourself look unique or acquire rare trophies and items to display proudly for your friends and strangers.

You built community and relationships with people and ran and/or participated in events the community constructed.

These "other" MMO players just don't understand why you would spend X amount of time for a cool looking hat if the hat didn't give you any stat bonuses.

Or why you would "waste time" sitting in an inn playing chess.

It's sad. Very, very sad.

I'm not seeing how GW2 relates though as UO and SWG were about communities providing long-term content, as well as the skill grinding being a path to your "end-game" profession and activity same with EVE. GW2 is still a content based game. The goal is to consume the content, not build the content, it doesn't offer that IMO.

It relates in the openness of the game's world, in terms of where to go and what to do. You're not stuck in endgame zones and instances like in typical themeparks. You can go anywhere and the content will never be trivial.

No. GW2 is not a world in the sense that SWG and UO were. GW2 is a game and a pretty good game, but not a world. SWG and UO were true virtual worlds in which people lived second lives. GW2 is more of a beautiful environment where people go to experience some pretty neat content.

Re-read what I wrote. GW2 has a world, just like any MMO out there. It's not, however, an emulation of our world.

You missed the point. GW2 gives you the content. SWG and UO gave you a little content, but more importantly it gave you the tools to make your own content. That is how SWG and UO were worlds. The endgame was the game and it truly was from level 1. GW2 gives you pretty much all of the content. I am not denying that GW2 has opened the world up and made it's content more relevant through all levels, but it is not the same as what SWG and UO provided. When you hear people pining for a game similar to those, it is because they want a world to live in.....as sad as they may or may not be.

Answer these questions:

Does GW2 have a world with different zones, towns, NPCs and monsters?

Is this world open at level 80 or not?

That is all I am saying. Whatever other stuff you were saying about UO and SWG being worlds has absolutely nothing to do with what I am trying to say.

You just descibed pretty much every MMO out there.......

  Tarka

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/07
Posts: 1673

Free speech is a right, common sense is a duty.

8/06/12 5:03:27 PM#660
Originally posted by Badaboom

Level scaling to content is probably GW2's greatest feature.  This ensures that all content updates/expansions is relevant and can be experienced by everybody.

I believe a solid foundation has been laid from Anet enabling this game to continually grow and evolve.

I don't think the leveling scaling can be singled out as the greatest feature.  Because, it's only when it is coupled with the dynamic events and hearts system does one get the full perspective of a combination of systems that aren't "level locked" and thus are able to create a greater degree of longevity in the content whilst creating a feeling of a less linear world.

 

Side Note:  It's just a shame that currently GW2 is missing two features that I personally think it needs: 

  • Player housing:  Just like in games such as SWG, player housing that can be built by the player and has a fully customisable interior can add to a sense of the gameworld actually "feeling" like a world and less like a movie set tour (I'm looking at you Bioware).
  • .
  • Land and Sea based Mounts:  I'm not talking about having flying mounts or even mounts that go at super fast speeds.  Both of which would bring in their own sets of problems to the game.  I'm referring to a wide variety of types of land and sea based mounts that perhaps have speeds slightly higher than run speed.   Such a variation of mounts (some of which are not easily obtainable) can be another element which gives players something to seek out and thus gives them more reason to stay in the game world.
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