Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Bladestrom
So cosmetic gear progression is bad, but if they have ever increasing stats that destroys the playability of everything appart from the last tier of items then the game has a rich end game. Brilliant. Read the above links if you are really interested in learning about alternate end game styles.

Ps bc, eve and gw1 have no stat progression- what do you think of those?

No. Atleast that's not how I feel. I feel only having a cosmetic gear grind is inadequate and a reach to call endgame.

 

 

luckily cosmetic gear is only one of the many options you have to strive for in GW2

And there is where this 60 page debate comes in :) GW2's endgame is in question.

Why is it in question and by who?

Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

So people don't understand and only GW2 players do... 

I raided in WoW for 7 years, not because I wanted better stats for more DPS or better tanking gear but beacuse for me the best part of raiding and the whole game in general was the cool looking gear.  I love that I don't have to set aside time 3-4 nights a week to get the cool looking gear anymore. 

GW2 game design could not be more perfect for me, my guild as well as many others, I can still play 4-5 hours a night but I don't have to grind boring raids to look cool.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

I blame EA for that. They've cancelled so many UO2's, it's not even a joke. UO is a great game but it's hard to pick up by new players simply due to it's age.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Bladestrom
So cosmetic gear progression is bad, but if they have ever increasing stats that destroys the playability of everything appart from the last tier of items then the game has a rich end game. Brilliant. Read the above links if you are really interested in learning about alternate end game styles.

Ps bc, eve and gw1 have no stat progression- what do you think of those?

No. Atleast that's not how I feel. I feel only having a cosmetic gear grind is inadequate and a reach to call endgame.

 

 

luckily cosmetic gear is only one of the many options you have to strive for in GW2

And there is where this 60 page debate comes in :) GW2's endgame is in question.

Why is it in question and by who?

It's on trial right now. Did you miss the other 59 pages?

edit - 60 pages

Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

I don't see how it relates to SWG's end-game?

I've also never spent even a hot minute in themepark style end-game (raids, ger-grinds, etc)

Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

I was thinking this. Glad to see some one else understands.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

So people don't understand and only GW2 players do... 

Have you played GW1?

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Bladestrom
So cosmetic gear progression is bad, but if they have ever increasing stats that destroys the playability of everything appart from the last tier of items then the game has a rich end game. Brilliant. Read the above links if you are really interested in learning about alternate end game styles.

Ps bc, eve and gw1 have no stat progression- what do you think of those?

No. Atleast that's not how I feel. I feel only having a cosmetic gear grind is inadequate and a reach to call endgame.

 

 

luckily cosmetic gear is only one of the many options you have to strive for in GW2

And there is where this 60 page debate comes in :) GW2's endgame is in question.

Why is it in question and by who?

It's on trial right now. Did you miss the other 59 pages?

It may be on trial for you, since you're not familiar with the concept but it's not on trial for those of us who have experience with similar concepts. Why aren't you playing TSW?

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Bladestrom
So cosmetic gear progression is bad, but if they have ever increasing stats that destroys the playability of everything appart from the last tier of items then the game has a rich end game. Brilliant. Read the above links if you are really interested in learning about alternate end game styles.

Ps bc, eve and gw1 have no stat progression- what do you think of those?

No. Atleast that's not how I feel. I feel only having a cosmetic gear grind is inadequate and a reach to call endgame.

 

 

luckily cosmetic gear is only one of the many options you have to strive for in GW2

And there is where this 60 page debate comes in :)

 

people have given a lot of examples on what you can strive for over the course of this thread.. If it's nothing that interests you that's fine but there is a LOT to do throughout this game and when you happen to reach level 80. On a side note why can't people see others may just enjoy the DE's and will do them for fun as part of their "endgame" You can go to any area you like and enjoy them. Most are varied and offer numerous options and outcomes unlike say Rift where its basically the same thing over and over. Orr looks like a lot of fun and I'm sure people will be spending a lot of time in there. Then you have PVP which is incredibly fun and is an entire other game within itself in many ways anyway.  If you enjoy the races, the classes, the pvp, the DE's, the exploration, the hidden things to find, you will be enjoying this game for a long time.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

So people don't understand and only GW2 players do... 

Have you played GW1?

No, so that means I don't know what grinding for cosmetics is?

edit - you still haven't said sorry!

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Celcius

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Celcius

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Celcius

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Bladestrom
And yet bc in this thread people are saying gw2 has no end game, the first themepark ever to have no end game, odd isn't it.

Well a lot of people in this thread have questioned if GW2 has endgame. You wouldn't deny that would you?

Its funny this is the same guy who claimed that TSW had a good combat system. Can you take anything he says seriously?  I certainly can't. Any sub number or box number sales announcements yet? I am sure Funcom would love to announce those! Oh wait, sorry, the game is doing so terrible they won't. ArenaNet will announce sales probably within the first week because it will sell atleast twice as many copies of TSW sells in a lifetime that first week. It is obvious this guy is just trying to stick to his guns (World of Warcraft style item grind) and cannot comprehend that people can play games other then to increase the statistics of one of there characters. People like him are the reason MMORPGs are a joke as an E-sport and as a gaming genre. If you like item grinds, you can keep liking them thats cool, but don't just consider everyone elses opinion as being wrong just because you like something different. 

well since you brought TSW up. TSW gives you verticle (stats) horizontal (abilities) and cosmetic endgame progressions.  

 

I'm thinking 750k will be announced on the 8th of this month btw.

 

 

No, thats not end game. I don't count that sorry. Doing the same few dungeons over and over again with no raiding? Wow, no endgame. Clearly a terrible game. Not to mention the bad gameplay. Who would keep playing a game after they beat it with bad gameplay? I mean seriously! Can't wait until that announcement though! 

10/20 man raiding in less than 30 days!

 

And the vast majority of the gaming community disagrees with you.

Vast majority huh? So the people in this thread who hate GW2? Got any stats to back that up? Or anything to backup the 750k? Don't like it when people claim your game has no end game because they prefer it a different way hmmm? Honestly man you cant argue opinions as facts --thats just not logical. If TSW has 10/20 man raiding (both) in 30 days I will eat my hat. 

I sure do!

700 gamers on metacrtic gave TSW a 8.4

500 gamers here gave TSW a 8.7

Guestamating a mmorpg gamer population of roughly 10,000,000 people 1,100 polled gives you a margin of error of less than 3%. 

 

So from that there I will say the vast majority of the gaming community disagrees with you. As far as numbers, just a hunch we will find out soon.

New sig underlined btw.

Can we in this now or if you like take it to the TSW forums? You can have the last word.

I don't have long since I have a night class soon, but basically read into what I am saying: You say that your opinion on GW2 is the only valid opinion based upon your own view of what games should have. Regardless of number of people who say things on internet forums: it is still an opinion. You are now trying to defend TSW because I was attacking it. You don't like that and pretend to make up statistics based on poor data just to back it up. (Number of registered users on a website as a sample size, you can't be serious) GW2 has no statistical data yet to prove either way other then data like what you have posted. So really there is no win here. Its all opinion. 

The FACT is that GW2 does have an endgame. You just don't like it so you don't count it as end game. By your logic TSW has no end game as well because I do not consider what they have end game. Funny that even on the TSW forums I totally destroyed your arguments --based on opinions as facts-- (the ones you LOVE to bring up, along with those lovely ninja edits/deletes to try to backup your claims like in this thread) and alot of people backed me up there as they do here. I don't have to make a signature about what I am saying since you will regret it and feel guilty about saying it in the first place. 9/5/12 if there is not a 10 man and 20 man raid you were wrong. Mark the day. I don't have to wait long though considering that you claimed Funcom will announce 750k subs in 2 days. Can't wait !;)

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Bladestrom
So cosmetic gear progression is bad, but if they have ever increasing stats that destroys the playability of everything appart from the last tier of items then the game has a rich end game. Brilliant. Read the above links if you are really interested in learning about alternate end game styles.

Ps bc, eve and gw1 have no stat progression- what do you think of those?

No. Atleast that's not how I feel. I feel only having a cosmetic gear grind is inadequate and a reach to call endgame.

 

 

luckily cosmetic gear is only one of the many options you have to strive for in GW2

And there is where this 60 page debate comes in :)

 

people have given a lot of examples on what you can strive for over the course of this thread.. If it's nothing that interests you that's fine but there is a LOT to do throughout this game and when you happen to reach level 80. On a side note why can't people see others may just enjoy the DE's and will do them for fun as part of their "endgame" You can go to any area you like and enjoy them. Most are varied and offer numerous options and outcomes unlike say Rift where its basically the same thing over and over. Orr looks like a lot of fun and I'm sure people will be spending a lot of time in there. Then you have PVP which is incredibly fun and is an entire other game within itself in many ways anyway.  If you enjoy the races, the classes, the pvp, the DE's, the exploration, the hidden things to find, you will be enjoying this game for a long time.

All of those things except Orr are the samethings you do all game though. Thus this debate. 

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

So people don't understand and only GW2 players do... 

Have you played GW1?

No, so that means I don't know what grinding for cosmetics is?

You don't know what grinding for cosmetics done properly is. Which makes all of your points null.

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh, if people would have only played UO instead of EQ and all the clones of EQ (WoW, Rift, TSW, AoC, TERA etc. etc.) were instead UO clones (EvE, SWG)

we'd be able to explain GW2 "end game" so much easier...

Some people just - don't - get it.

I was thinking this. Glad to see some one else understands.

People who played games like UO and SWG "back in the day" instead of playing games like EQ and then all of its clones really can understand "GW2 endgame" a whole hell of a lot easier.

It was fairly easy to "max out" a toon in games like UO and SWG in terms of raw stats - so what did you do?

First of all the "end game" was not "maxing out" your toon - there really wasn't an end-game it was a journey and about the journey not the destination.

You built stuff, collected stuff, faught people for the sake of fighting them - took control of things for the sake of controlling them... saught ways to make yourself look unique or acquire rare trophies and items to display proudly for your friends and strangers.

You built community and relationships with people and ran and/or participated in events the community constructed.

These "other" MMO players just don't understand why you would spend X amount of time for a cool looking hat if the hat didn't give you any stat bonuses.

Or why you would "waste time" sitting in an inn playing chess.

It's sad. Very, very sad.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Bladestrom
So cosmetic gear progression is bad, but if they have ever increasing stats that destroys the playability of everything appart from the last tier of items then the game has a rich end game. Brilliant. Read the above links if you are really interested in learning about alternate end game styles.

Ps bc, eve and gw1 have no stat progression- what do you think of those?

No. Atleast that's not how I feel. I feel only having a cosmetic gear grind is inadequate and a reach to call endgame.

 

 

luckily cosmetic gear is only one of the many options you have to strive for in GW2

And there is where this 60 page debate comes in :)

 

people have given a lot of examples on what you can strive for over the course of this thread.. If it's nothing that interests you that's fine but there is a LOT to do throughout this game and when you happen to reach level 80. On a side note why can't people see others may just enjoy the DE's and will do them for fun as part of their "endgame" You can go to any area you like and enjoy them. Most are varied and offer numerous options and outcomes unlike say Rift where its basically the same thing over and over. Orr looks like a lot of fun and I'm sure people will be spending a lot of time in there. Then you have PVP which is incredibly fun and is an entire other game within itself in many ways anyway.  If you enjoy the races, the classes, the pvp, the DE's, the exploration, the hidden things to find, you will be enjoying this game for a long time.

All of those things except Orr are the samethings you do all game though. Thus this debate. 

There is no debate. It's just you trying to come up with at least something that will make GW2 look less appealing. Give it up and go back to your game.

Originally posted by Celcius

I don't have long since I have a night class soon, but basically read into what I am saying: You say that your opinion on GW2 is the only valid opinion based upon your own view of what games should have. Regardless of number of people who say things on internet forums: it is still an opinion. You are now trying to defend TSW because I was attacking it. You don't like that and pretend to make up statistics based on poor data just to back it up. (Number of registered users on a website as a sample size, you can't be serious) GW2 has no statistical data yet to prove either way other then data like what you have posted. So really there is no win here. Its all opinion. 

The FACT is that GW2 does have an endgame. You just don't like it so you don't count it as end game. By your logic TSW has no end game as well because I do not consider what they have end game. Funny that even on the TSW forums I totally destroyed your arguments --based on opinions as facts-- (the ones you LOVE to bring up) and alot of people backed me up there as they do here. I don't have to make a signature about what I am saying since you will regret it and feel guilty about saying it in the first place. 9/5/12 if there is not a 10 man and 20 man raid you were wrong. Mark the day. I don't have to wait long though considering that you claimed Funcom will announce 750k subs in 2 days. Can't wait !;)

I never said that nor did I create this thread. 

I love cosmetics, but cosmetics only as endgame progression? That's thin and stretching it to call it endgame.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Bladestrom
So cosmetic gear progression is bad, but if they have ever increasing stats that destroys the playability of everything appart from the last tier of items then the game has a rich end game. Brilliant. Read the above links if you are really interested in learning about alternate end game styles.

Ps bc, eve and gw1 have no stat progression- what do you think of those?

No. Atleast that's not how I feel. I feel only having a cosmetic gear grind is inadequate and a reach to call endgame.

 

 

luckily cosmetic gear is only one of the many options you have to strive for in GW2

And there is where this 60 page debate comes in :)

 

people have given a lot of examples on what you can strive for over the course of this thread.. If it's nothing that interests you that's fine but there is a LOT to do throughout this game and when you happen to reach level 80. On a side note why can't people see others may just enjoy the DE's and will do them for fun as part of their "endgame" You can go to any area you like and enjoy them. Most are varied and offer numerous options and outcomes unlike say Rift where its basically the same thing over and over. Orr looks like a lot of fun and I'm sure people will be spending a lot of time in there. Then you have PVP which is incredibly fun and is an entire other game within itself in many ways anyway.  If you enjoy the races, the classes, the pvp, the DE's, the exploration, the hidden things to find, you will be enjoying this game for a long time.

All of those things except Orr are the samethings you do all game though. Thus this debate. 

There is no debate. It's just you trying to come up with at least something that will make GW2 look less appealing. Give it up and go back to your game.

Buddy, I didn't start this fire.

62 pages says there is a debate going on. You dening that does not erase this thread.

edit - 63 pages.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by bcbully

All of those things except Orr are the samethings you do all game though. Thus this debate. 

There is no debate. It's just you trying to come up with at least something that will make GW2 look less appealing. Give it up and go back to your game.

I think you don't realize that this is the point.

And yes, Orr is the same as the rest of the stuff you are doing in other zones just on a larger scale and with more difficulty.

There is no debate. heartless is right.

There is no "right" or "wrong" - the facts are all over this thread.

If YOU personally don't like the way it is, that's fine - move along.