Originally posted by andreika111
Its not out yet, nobody knows what endgame will be like

Um we kind of do. It's not a bimodal game like a lot of mmos are.

Originally posted by Adzija

 

There is gear progression.

However, gear with best stats can be gained through crafting, dungeons, DE bosses and maybe pvp (not sure about last).

It's not like when you hit 80 you insta get best gear and that's it. You still have to find that best piece.

Only difference is that unlike most other MMORPG best gear is not in raids only and it should be easier to get for all.

Is this really what the genre needs more of?

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by otinanai123
You just dinged 80. You don't like leveling alts and want to finally experience GW2's endgame. What will keep you occupied for a whole year until the next expansion?

End what now? End who what?

The days of rushing to max are over dude, time to join the mature gameplay. Just sayin.

What exactly is a "mature gameplay"? Casual?

prolly just PLAYING the game instead of just rushing through without having read a single letter in your quest .

(spacebar in SWTOR anyone???)

Just to be server first??.......can you tell the name of the guy who was server first in SWTOR from the top of your head now....no peaking at google now......that's right......you can't, my point is......noone cares about server first if you realy like the game.

So plz dont say games are all about endgame ok? because GW2 is all "end-game" from lvl 2 to 80 :p

Rushing to the endgame is SO 2011.....yeah its getting old :p

One thing I don't get about all the GW2 fans is that they hate the gear grind yet support the level grind. They both have an end, they both make your character more powerful. Seriously what's the big difference? Is it that the end game gear is too difficult to obtain for you, so you feel you can't compete with the sub max gear?

From what I've seen level still has a significant impact on WvW battle. So how again is GW2's pvp so much better than everything else's?

I guess it's because it's a little new, few different things, and players that have played the beta are still in the honeymoon period.

Every game players have a slight interest in is the coolest game ever during this time.

New things are cool, but I've seen this show too many damn times over the last decade.

Originally posted by jusomdude

One thing I don't get about all the GW2 fans is that they hate the gear grind yet support the level grind. They both have an end, they both make your character more powerful. Seriously what's the big difference? Is it that the end game gear is too difficult to obtain for you, so you feel you can't compete with the sub max gear?

From what I've seen level still has a significant impact on WvW battle. So how again is GW2's pvp so much better than everything else's?

I guess it's because it's a little new, few different things, and players that have played the beta are still in the honeymoon period.

Every game players have a slight interest in is the coolest game ever during this time.

New things are cool, but I've seen this show too many damn times over the last decade.

Gear grinds DO NOT have an end though, the next content patch or expansion will make your gear worthless and the treadmill starts again.

I understand your skepticism, but the difference here, at least for me, is Anet has a very concrete well laid out manifesto that they've built the game around and I like what I read in it.

Another factor is since the progression is horizontal we can get a pretty clear picture of what the game will be like just playing up to 30, since in theory the basic game play should not change between then and max.

I've been there for all the same shows you have, believe me. I'm hopeful that my points above, and the fact this isn't another WoW gear treadmill progression game will be enough for this game to finaly break the cycle of disapointment MMOs are stuck in.

Besides, even if it's not I've only lost the price on the box, which would be well worth even a month of quality gameplay.

Originally posted by jusomdude

One thing I don't get about all the GW2 fans is that they hate the gear grind yet support the level grind. They both have an end, they both make your character more powerful. Seriously what's the big difference? Is it that the end game gear is too difficult to obtain for you, so you feel you can't compete with the sub max gear?

From what I've seen level still has a significant impact on WvW battle. So how again is GW2's pvp so much better than everything else's?

My answer to questions like these:

If you don't get it by now, you won't get it, ever.

The concept of not having stat based gear progression is not a new concept. GW1 has used it for 7 years now. With all the info out now about what GW2 actually is, the only question you need to ask yourself is:

Do I want to play a game with a stat based gear progression, which you have played for over a decade?

GW2 is a great game, but sadly it won't be for everyone. My only suggestion is play through it, experience what the endgame actually is and then decide if it is for you or not. Whats to lose? 50 bucks and your time...

Originally posted by bcbully

 

Can't you see  they give you less and now are telling you it's new, innovative and more?

 

Swtor was crucified for having no endgame. Hell it even launched with raids. There will be more endgame in swtor than Gw2 at launch.

Less is more! Nice Orwellian reference there.

Originally posted by jusomdude

One thing I don't get about all the GW2 fans is that they hate the gear grind yet support the level grind. They both have an end, they both make your character more powerful. Seriously what's the big difference? Is it that the end game gear is too difficult to obtain for you, so you feel you can't compete with the sub max gear?

From what I've seen level still has a significant impact on WvW battle. So how again is GW2's pvp so much better than everything else's?

I guess it's because it's a little new, few different things, and players that have played the beta are still in the honeymoon period.

Every game players have a slight interest in is the coolest game ever during this time.

New things are cool, but I've seen this show too many damn times over the last decade.

One thing i don't get about WoW fans, is why they post here at all, trying to stir shit up.

You already made your point clear in your "gw2 pvp vs wow pvp" thread that you love wow, so stick with it and let us fanboys be at our leisure.

Originally posted by jusomdude

One thing I don't get about all the GW2 fans is that they hate the gear grind yet support the level grind. They both have an end, they both make your character more powerful. Seriously what's the big difference? Is it that the end game gear is too difficult to obtain for you, so you feel you can't compete with the sub max gear?

There is a major difference betwen the two that you just seem to be missing for some reason. The gear grind does not have an end in other games like you try and express in your post. You literally just gloss over that fact that is so central to the reason why some people don't enjoy gear grinding.

There is a limit to the level grind in most MMORPGs.

There is no limit to the gear grind in many MMORPGs.

Leveling feels worthwhile because you accomplish something that can't be taken away from you. Gear grinding has the odd effect of making you feel like you haven't accomplished anything because everything is replaceable within a short period of time. Your gear is essentially taken away from you by being made worthless when it comes to enjoying new content every three to six months.

You apprently enjoy gear grinding. And that's fine and there are a lot of games with that mechanic for you to play. But GW2 is not one of those games. The game does reward you in many ways, but stat progression through a repeatable gear grind is not one of them. 

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by jusomdude

One thing I don't get about all the GW2 fans is that they hate the gear grind yet support the level grind. They both have an end, they both make your character more powerful. Seriously what's the big difference? Is it that the end game gear is too difficult to obtain for you, so you feel you can't compete with the sub max gear?

There is a major difference betwen the two that you just seem to be missing for some reason. The gear grind does not have an end in other games like you try and express in your post. You literally just gloss over that fact that is so central to the reason why some people don't enjoy gear grinding.

 

There is a limit to the level grind in most MMORPGs.

 

There is no limit to the gear grind in many MMORPGs.

 

 

Leveling feels worthwhile because you accomplish something that can't be taken away from you. Gear grinding has the odd effect of making you feel like you haven't accomplished anything because everything is replaceable within a short period of time. Your gear is essentially taken away from you by being made worthless when it comes to enjoying new content every three to six months.

 

You apprently enjoy gear grinding. And that's fine and there are a lot of games with that mechanic for you to play. But GW2 is not one of those games. The game does reward you in many ways, but stat progression through a repeatable gear grind is not one of them. 

What the sam hell are you talking about. There isn't an infinite amount of end game gear to collect. Once you get the gear for the current expansion or big patch you're done until the next one. Maxing a character out in second best pvp gear in wow might take a month if you play very casually. A few days if you play a bit more. And when it comes to gear. It doesn't matter what the hell you have unless you like to pvp. Although even pve gear that would allow all content to be seen can be attained quickly also.

Do you rage when you have to gain more levels in xpacs? I don't see how people are fans of RPGs when they are against their core mechanics.

GW2 isn't even fixing this when it comes to WvW. There are still gear and level disparities. Maybe just not as severe as other games. Sure low levels are boosted, but they are still gimped when fighting real higher leveled players.

GW2 does remove a lot of grind by removing a lot of the power progression horizon.

Unfortunately, it doesn't replace what it removes with anything.

They're just expecting players to repeat similar content over and over for "prestige" rewards instead of actual power.

But since the game will inevitably be exhausted in terms of fresh content in a relatively short period of time - I don't see any advantage whatsoever.

Well, unless you really enjoy repeating content over and over because it's SO fun - as if that wasn't possible in other themeparks. Content is fun for a while - and then you start looking for something new. The reason people raided Molten Core for 1-2 years isn't that the instance was so very brilliant - but because it offered them a carrot. Content burns itself out inevitably. In GW2 - it will just happen a lot faster.

WvW is, of course, significant if you're into playing an identical map on a 2-week reset timer over and over - where you're simply one face amongst countless others, either being part of the mindless zerg or following orders from a "leader" type figure. Oh, for no reward except the "prestige loot" and potentially winning this closed-off instance that has no relation with the open world

Not for me, but to each his own.

Originally posted by DKLond

GW2 does remove a lot of grind by removing a lot of the power progression horizon.

Unfortunately, it doesn't replace what it removes with anything.

They're just expecting players to repeat similar content over and over for "prestige" rewards instead of actual power.

But since the game will inevitably be exhausted in terms of fresh content in a relatively short period of time - I don't see any advantage whatsoever.

Well, unless you really enjoy repeating content over and over because it's SO fun - as if that wasn't possible in other themeparks. Content is fun for a while - and then you start looking for something new. The reason people raided Molten Core for 1-2 years isn't that the instance was so very brilliant - but because it offered them a carrot. Content burns itself out inevitably. In GW2 - it will just happen a lot faster.

WvW is, of course, significant if you're into playing an identical map on a 2-week reset timer over and over - where you're simply one face amongst countless others, either being part of the mindless zerg or following orders from a "leader" type figure. Oh, for no reward except the "prestige loot" and potentially winning this closed-off instance that has no relation with the open world

Not for me, but to each his own.

++1 to all that. And .. those are just some of the problems this game has. It will be ugly after the first 1-2 weeks :D

Originally posted by expendable83

Originally posted by DKLond

GW2 does remove a lot of grind by removing a lot of the power progression horizon.

Unfortunately, it doesn't replace what it removes with anything.

They're just expecting players to repeat similar content over and over for "prestige" rewards instead of actual power.

But since the game will inevitably be exhausted in terms of fresh content in a relatively short period of time - I don't see any advantage whatsoever.

Well, unless you really enjoy repeating content over and over because it's SO fun - as if that wasn't possible in other themeparks. Content is fun for a while - and then you start looking for something new. The reason people raided Molten Core for 1-2 years isn't that the instance was so very brilliant - but because it offered them a carrot. Content burns itself out inevitably. In GW2 - it will just happen a lot faster.

WvW is, of course, significant if you're into playing an identical map on a 2-week reset timer over and over - where you're simply one face amongst countless others, either being part of the mindless zerg or following orders from a "leader" type figure. Oh, for no reward except the "prestige loot" and potentially winning this closed-off instance that has no relation with the open world

Not for me, but to each his own.

++1 to all that. And .. those are just some of the problems this game has. It will be ugly after the first 1-2 weeks :D

So it's now problem that you don't have to do content when it's no longer fun?

Weird, I tought real problem is that game makes you do content even if it's not fun any more because you need that last boss drop.

Just pointing out that people have different views and this whole discussion is pointless.

Originally posted by jusomdude

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by jusomdude

One thing I don't get about all the GW2 fans is that they hate the gear grind yet support the level grind. They both have an end, they both make your character more powerful. Seriously what's the big difference? Is it that the end game gear is too difficult to obtain for you, so you feel you can't compete with the sub max gear?

There is a major difference betwen the two that you just seem to be missing for some reason. The gear grind does not have an end in other games like you try and express in your post. You literally just gloss over that fact that is so central to the reason why some people don't enjoy gear grinding.

 

There is a limit to the level grind in most MMORPGs.

 

There is no limit to the gear grind in many MMORPGs.

 

 

Leveling feels worthwhile because you accomplish something that can't be taken away from you. Gear grinding has the odd effect of making you feel like you haven't accomplished anything because everything is replaceable within a short period of time. Your gear is essentially taken away from you by being made worthless when it comes to enjoying new content every three to six months.

 

You apprently enjoy gear grinding. And that's fine and there are a lot of games with that mechanic for you to play. But GW2 is not one of those games. The game does reward you in many ways, but stat progression through a repeatable gear grind is not one of them. 

What the sam hell are you talking about. There isn't an infinite amount of end game gear to collect. Once you get the gear for the current expansion or big patch you're done until the next one. Maxing a character out in second best pvp gear in wow might take a month if you play very casually. A few days if you play a bit more. And when it comes to gear. It doesn't matter what the hell you have unless you like to pvp. Although even pve gear that would allow all content to be seen can be attained quickly also.

Do you rage when you have to gain more levels in xpacs? I don't see how people are fans of RPGs when they are against their core mechanics.

GW2 isn't even fixing this when it comes to WvW. There are still gear and level disparities. Maybe just not as severe as other games. Sure low levels are boosted, but they are still gimped when fighting real higher leveled players.

 

Gear grind IS infinite - I will give you an example - RIFT. Patch 1.9 is out and it has a new instance and new gear. It takes alot of grinding to get ALL the gear from that instance. The gear is also higher spec'ed so YOU want that gear to replace your current gear. You also have to grind out dailies and other instances to buy this new gear. They are already planning the next expansion for Rift and that will also have more gear that is higher ned.

That is what we mean by infinite. Just because you have the current armor, you still have to save up to get the armor from the next patch because it will be better than what you have already. Call it the 'Gear Grind' wheel. You also have to go through these instances alot to get the right items for the gear. They reset these instances and they rest in Rift each week. ALso the amount of time to play in a group in each instance (normally 3-5 hrs minimum) for 1/2 of the instance. I won't even mention the cookie cutter builds you have to use to get through.

Originally posted by Adzija

Originally posted by expendable83

Originally posted by DKLond

GW2 does remove a lot of grind by removing a lot of the power progression horizon.

Unfortunately, it doesn't replace what it removes with anything.

They're just expecting players to repeat similar content over and over for "prestige" rewards instead of actual power.

But since the game will inevitably be exhausted in terms of fresh content in a relatively short period of time - I don't see any advantage whatsoever.

Well, unless you really enjoy repeating content over and over because it's SO fun - as if that wasn't possible in other themeparks. Content is fun for a while - and then you start looking for something new. The reason people raided Molten Core for 1-2 years isn't that the instance was so very brilliant - but because it offered them a carrot. Content burns itself out inevitably. In GW2 - it will just happen a lot faster.

WvW is, of course, significant if you're into playing an identical map on a 2-week reset timer over and over - where you're simply one face amongst countless others, either being part of the mindless zerg or following orders from a "leader" type figure. Oh, for no reward except the "prestige loot" and potentially winning this closed-off instance that has no relation with the open world

Not for me, but to each his own.

++1 to all that. And .. those are just some of the problems this game has. It will be ugly after the first 1-2 weeks :D

So it's now problem that you don't have to do content when it's no longer fun?

Weird, I tought real problem is that game makes you do content even if it's not fun any more because you need that last boss drop.

Just pointing out that people have different views and this whole discussion is pointless.

Ehm, no, the problem is that the game will inevitably be "no longer fun" in a few months - like all themeparks. Now, I fully agree that introducing gear grind is a very poor excuse to extend the lifetime of a game - but it STILL offers MORE than GW2 with NO grind.

I have no idea why people keep grinding gear if they don't think that's fun - but I never did. Personally, I'm ok with the way the token system has been introduced that put a natural limit on how much "grind" the games had. I still don't like the grind - but if the games offered more than simply content repetition - then I'd have much more fun going for gear than going for nothing at all.

Problem is that neither GW2 - nor any other themepark offer MORE than repetition of similar content. They're still just themeparks with developer-created "rides" that will naturally exhaust their own fun. GW2 does NOTHING to alleviate this.

By almost entirely removing the gear grind - ArenaNet has cured the disease by killing the patient. They might think that's brilliant - and their fans might think that's brilliant - but I certainly don't. It just means even less of a reason to repeat content.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by bcbully

http://chronicle.thesecretworld.com/character/Chopsticks

 

I will accept you apology when you give it.  I will not respond to anything else about TSW. This is about GW2. 

 

Apology for what? You're obviously exaggerating.  First where does it say days played on that link?

Here is my character a few days before I stopped playing. This is at about 4 days /played. You know the command in the game? For some reason the Chronicle didn't update itself to my most current character level but whatever. You're trying to tell me that at 14 days /played, you only have 50% when I had 37% at 4 days /played?

Either you're doing something wrong, I'm doing something right or you go AFK for hours on end. Or maybe you're just exaggerating. Unless all you do is PvP, then I can sort of see how what you claim is possible.

He linked a picture that showed he has played 17 days 21 hours. Which means that he has played the game ~12 hours per day since release.

 

Here is the pic: http://s14.postimage.org/outsghvcv/Chopsticks_picture023.png

 

Obviously he is the exception to the rule. It looks like he has done a ton of PvPing according to his Chronicle. If he had been focusing on PvE for 12 hours/day since launch I'm sure he's be through all the content a long time ago. That is a ridiculously high average for an entire month.

That's pretty crazy. I guess if all you do is PvP, I can see how that is possible, since it's really not a very optimal way to get AP/SP apparently. Still, it doesn't mean that the game has a lot of content. It just shows that he deliberately ignored most of it.

That actually means that he's been grinding (repeating) the same limited content (PvP) over and over again. That definitely doesn't mean the game has a lot of content.

I could do the same in any game and then pretend it has a lot of content... if it wouldn't bore me to death ;)

Originally posted by DKLond

GW2 does remove a lot of grind by removing a lot of the power progression horizon.

Unfortunately, it doesn't replace what it removes with anything.

They're just expecting players to repeat similar content over and over for "prestige" rewards instead of actual power.

But since the game will inevitably be exhausted in terms of fresh content in a relatively short period of time - I don't see any advantage whatsoever.

Well, unless you really enjoy repeating content over and over because it's SO fun - as if that wasn't possible in other themeparks. Content is fun for a while - and then you start looking for something new. The reason people raided Molten Core for 1-2 years isn't that the instance was so very brilliant - but because it offered them a carrot. Content burns itself out inevitably. In GW2 - it will just happen a lot faster.

WvW is, of course, significant if you're into playing an identical map on a 2-week reset timer over and over - where you're simply one face amongst countless others, either being part of the mindless zerg or following orders from a "leader" type figure. Oh, for no reward except the "prestige loot" and potentially winning this closed-off instance that has no relation with the open world

Not for me, but to each his own.

I'll say it again. Giving you less, and selling it as revolutionary...