From whatching Beta play i get the impression that it will be quite zergy pvp. Alt tab to next target and unload on it until dead, then rince repeat etc.

I have no doubt the game will be worth the money in pve when it comes to money paid vs ig playtime etc. Im just worried by looking at the beta that it will get boring after a while. I mean, slaughtering people in zergs get old fast. Or adding on lone pvpers. I really do enjoy good 1 vs 1 and small group pvp where details can win the fights, not spamming aoe abilities ^^

I see that all worlds has their castles/fortresses spread out so it seems like people zerg around to mop up map depending on wich world has most people online atm. What i would like to see was some sort of map progress...that you had to pass certain points to get to the next objective. Maybe an alarm system, so defenders could rally. Otherwise it will be just a cat and mouse playground. Offcourse creating chokepoints will maybe create even more zergs, so its a difficult balance..

Another concern i have is that its so much spell effects and noice (AoE spam) in the fighting all the time, so its difficult to figure out whos hitting who, making combat quite chaotic and not as tactic as i would like it to be.

Anyway, what do people think about solo/small group pvp in this game?

There is an excellent WvW Post http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/355614/How-to-succeed-in-WvWvW-with-a-low-population-and-a-small-guild.html

From the BWE's tons of people haven't got a clue what you are doing yet.

Whilst Zergs have there part to play its well managed units that will win in WvW, the key being supply and siege.

A very small population can keep a fort against a large zerg indefinately with supply. maintaining supply camps and building siege is the key to success and this goes for attacking too.

The key is joining a compotent PVP focused guild (and not one that invites in everybody to just bulster numbers) with the appropriate builds and coordination you can trump up to 4 times your number of players who are uncoordinated.

The negative is the cap on the MIST: This is both in reaching the cap on lower pop servers where you may be constantly out numbered or on higher pop having your best teams locked out by solo Rambo's. Fortunately match making should sort out the first of these and any pvp orientated guild who are up for a challenge will be looking away from the heavy populated servers.

Originally posted by Grimmx

From whatching Beta play i get the impression that it will be quite zergy pvp. Alt tab to next target and unload on it until dead, then rince repeat etc.

I have no doubt the game will be worth the money in pve when it comes to money paid vs ig playtime etc. Im just worried by looking at the beta that it will get boring after a while. I mean, slaughtering people in zergs get old fast. Or adding on lone pvpers. I really do enjoy good 1 vs 1 and small group pvp where details can win the fights, not spamming aoe abilities ^^

I see that all worlds has their castles/fortresses spread out so it seems like people zerg around to mop up map depending on wich world has most people online atm. What i would like to see was some sort of map progress...that you had to pass certain points to get to the next objective. Maybe an alarm system, so defenders could rally. Otherwise it will be just a cat and mouse playground. Offcourse creating chokepoints will maybe create even more zergs, so its a difficult balance..

Another concern i have is that its so much spell effects and noice (AoE spam) in the fighting all the time, so its difficult to figure out whos hitting who, making combat quite chaotic and not as tactic as i would like it to be.

Anyway, what do people think about solo/small group pvp in this game?

 

That's what sPvP is for. It's odd how people seem to only comment on PvP talking about just one part of it.

WvWvW is all about large battles, territory/supply control and sieges. It's obvious it will feel zergy as when you have two huge blobs of players it can't really be otherwise. That said positioning still plays huge role. Fighting between points without siege support vs fighting at defensive position is two different battles. There will be smaller skirmishes as well, especially around the Quaggan camps, which is 90% underwater combat plus a small island in middle.

It's more about resource management (where to attack, what to cap, where to cut the supply, starving the keep before rushing in, etc.) . You can't really just run from point to point mopping up. Not when the servers matched put similar effort into it. Keep in mind it's 3 sides. So when you focus too much manpower on pushing one side, the other can just bite you in your rear. Once the game matures a bit people will start to see how important it is to have good people leading the flock in the right direction, sending smaller squads to harass points, etc. Zerg is easily outplayed.

If you want fights were your personal contribution matters more go into tournaments. It's 5v5, best of 3 matches and spamming midnlessly there will get you nowhere against any semi-competent team. That's where proper use of conditions and condition control matters, that's where you have to watch your cooldowns and use them smart, time those stuns and knockbacks for best effect.

If you join the zerg you will get zerg combat.

Just leave the zerg, solo or with a small group, and fight for supply camps, caravans, towers and you will get small scale pvp.

Of course if you just follow the zerg that is all you will get. It's your choice.

People have found ways to beat zergs, as a small group. Either with a guild that can work well together or ballistae. So I'm not too concerned.

Originally posted by Master10K

People have found ways to beat zergs, as a small group. Either with a guild that can work well together or ballistae. So I'm not too concerned.

If you are two people you can also have a huge impact ;) on zergs using a trebuchet on long distances. One person operates the treb and the other one tells him where to shoot. Did it last BWE with a random guy. Worked very well.

Originally posted by Anthur

If you join the zerg you will get zerg combat.

Just leave the zerg, solo or with a small group, and fight for supply camps, caravans, towers and you will get small scale pvp.

Of course if you just follow the zerg that is all you will get. It's your choice.

Couldn't agree more with Anthur.  I see so many complaints on various forums about zerg combat.  It's simple.  If you don't like it, don't do it!  I have had no issue breaking off from the zerg to join small groups to perform other maneuvers in WvW while the armies clash it out.

Cheers!

Originally posted by Grimmx

 Alt tab 

 

Usually Alt+Tab would switch you out of the game to another window or your desktop. Alt Tab in PvP might get you killed. =P

I've seen multiple videos of small, coordinated teams in WvW beating teh snot out of larger zerg parties using terrain and strike and fade tactics. 

People only think WvW requires zerging because many of them haven't bothered to try anything else. They gripe about the uselessness of single players and small groups in WvW mostly because they try to zerg with singles and small groups.

Zerging requires a large group to have any hope. It's like street crossing against the light in New York City- by the book it's suicide, but it works because the cars can't possibly run all of you over.

Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

There is an excellent WvW Post http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/355614/How-to-succeed-in-WvWvW-with-a-low-population-and-a-small-guild.html

 

Thanks for the link, very infomative and interesting read ;)

when pvp in a game is new zerg vs zerg is the easiest for new members to jump into since you really don't have ot know whats really going on. It really only becomes an issue when zerg vs zerg is the ONLY viable way to get things done in a large scale pvp map. Luckily gw2 has plently of objectives for smaller groups to be effective in wvwvw. You can see many threads and youtube videos showing small teams breaking off of the zerg and doing various objectives. This type of pvp provides a good balance to new players and veterens of the maps as it allows both to contribute in various ways

For the record, i didnt gripe about zerg or zerginess. I will cope with whatever game i find myself in, and yes i will try to avoid zerg's in general, as im sure ill also zerg now and then, but that wasnt the point i was trying to make. 

IF i get tired of repetative zerg pvp ill most likely end up quitting the game. So will people who like pvp in general.

My point is more that i thought beta fighting looked like zerg's fighting and not pvp. So i posted to see if somebody could clarify on that. Some people have given me some information ill prolly end up using, but that doesnt mean ill instantly play this game for years, because It still looks like zerg pvp to me. Maybe ill find fun in the ladder pvp, maybe ill find fun in skirmish fighting, maybe ill even like the game in its current state. BUT i would rather had a system that promoted guild pvp than zerg pvp.

Ill probably  find myself a pvp guild at start and see whats up myself. (starting with stress test tonight ;))

Now i need to check out good 1vs1 classes, im thinking Fighter, Necro or Scout so far.

There will be a Zerg element to Guild Wars 2 WvW, but only for a brief time. It merely depends on your terminology. There is always a Zerg and a Mass Zergs. 

Zerg - Mindless flow of unorganized and unaffiliated players who are looking for instant action and don't care for strategy.

Mass Zerg - Massive cluster of both the organized and unorganized to strike down key targets in a massive, overwhelming force of numbers. 

We still don't know the final size of the servers. BWE2 had too many servers, BWE3 had too few. ArenaNet needs to find a middle ground to ensure good populations in WvW. 

When the game launches, there will be several 24-hour WvW periods of play. Lots of Mass Zerging will happen here because you just can't build things in 24 hours. 

Once the game finally hits its 2-Week War stride, Mass Zerging will begin to diminish when fortifications can be built to repel Zergs. Only then will the Mass Zerging begin to fade out.

Each WvW round will likely begin with a Mass Zerg to re-take lost territory. Once that Territory is taken, the Mass Zerg will dissolve. 

Even Planetside always had a Zerg, but it wasn't the only way to play the game or win the day. Many smaller battles were happening in various places, you'll see this happen in WvW. Once players begin to establish several fortifications and defenses, they'll be able to hold off a Zerg. Yet the Zerg will remain fixed, like an immovable object meeting an unstoppable force --- a stand still will occur. It will be in the hands of the smaller groups of people to get things done and to make things happen, breaking the Zerg away like breaking the foundations of a dam to allow the waters to flow in the right direction once more. 

I don't get the Zerg hate. Zerging is how battles go unless a leader steps in to organize things. Hate Zergs, organize the groups properly. If you read up on combat for the last 100k years, the Zerg is frequently how battle unfolds, it's the natural way a conflict goes unless a strong leader organizes everyone.

It's unrealistic to expect anything else from a bunch of untrained gamers. If you want the clean organized style of combat you would probably have to play in a strict guild.

With that said I was able to get into a group with 20 skilled PVPers and make an major impact by taking various (less guarded) points on the map.

How is the combat in relation to fight time? will people be getting 1-2 shot or will you have time for some strategy. anyone that played TSW will know you can get 1  shot or impaired long enough to not really be able to do anything.

Having a large number of fortified objectives and players that defend them seems like it makes a difference.  It's difficult to just zerg over a decently-defended objective, and a prolonged siege creates opportunities for slightly more nuanced PvP.  At least that was my experience on one of heaviest servers.

For what it's worth, it felt less zergy to me than an Alliance run to Drek and far less than what TSW has going on in Fusang.

Originally posted by Dominionlord

How is the combat in relation to fight time? will people be getting 1-2 shot or will you have time for some strategy. anyone that played TSW will know you can get 1  shot or impaired long enough to not really be able to do anything.

In WvW 1-shotting is rare. Now...idiots standing in a cluster of 10 other people's aoes and biting it instantly..that's another matter. CC is all fairly short term and the strongest burst builds I've seen could 2-3 shot you if they succeeded. And those are probably gettin nerfed.

Originally posted by terrant

Originally posted by Dominionlord

How is the combat in relation to fight time? will people be getting 1-2 shot or will you have time for some strategy. anyone that played TSW will know you can get 1  shot or impaired long enough to not really be able to do anything.

In WvW 1-shotting is rare. Now...idiots standing in a cluster of 10 other people's aoes and biting it instantly..that's another matter. CC is all fairly short term and the strongest burst builds I've seen could 2-3 shot you if they succeeded. And those are probably gettin nerfed.

 That is great news if it comes out to be true. One of my biggest gripes with WoW pvp was being 1 shot by the fotm. It was especially rediculous when rogues could 2 shot warriors in full plate. I hope this games pvp is more balanced in that regard. I don't want it to take forever to die of course, but seeing your screen go to you were killed by so and so in a split second isnt fun.

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by terrant

Originally posted by Dominionlord

How is the combat in relation to fight time? will people be getting 1-2 shot or will you have time for some strategy. anyone that played TSW will know you can get 1  shot or impaired long enough to not really be able to do anything.

In WvW 1-shotting is rare. Now...idiots standing in a cluster of 10 other people's aoes and biting it instantly..that's another matter. CC is all fairly short term and the strongest burst builds I've seen could 2-3 shot you if they succeeded. And those are probably gettin nerfed.

 That is great news if it comes out to be true. One of my biggest gripes with WoW pvp was being 1 shot by the fotm. It was especially rediculous when rogues could 2 shot warriors in full plate. I hope this games pvp is more balanced in that regard. I don't want it to take forever to die of course, but seeing your screen go to you were killed by so and so in a split second isnt fun.

you can look on youtube and see its true. Everyone is bumped ot level 80 HP. You also need to remember the gear gaps in this game are very small compared to a game like wow. Only way you are going to die instantly from other players is if you are getting focus fired by several people or you get hit by seige weapons heh. You do have some builds with some crazy high burst but usually requires build up to pull off the burst so you can't just chain that sort of damage constantly.