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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Biggest MMO Failure to date?

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510 posts found
  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

8/09/12 10:30:17 AM#421
Originally posted by Byne25

[mod edit]

Well good morning Sunshine.

Not everything is sold for a profit. Bargain Bins sell items to reduce a loss. All criticism of the game aside.

If you want to be an optimist and say the game cost $200 million to develope and market and the game had a "hard" average subscriber base of a million; it would still take over a year just to break even.

If you assume the game cost $500 million to develope and market and has hard a "hard" average subscrier base of 500,000; it would take over 5.5 years just to break even.

The truth lies somewhere between the two scenarios above.  I think (but ofc I could be wrong) most would agree it's closer to the second scenario, thus the Freemium conversion.

When you factor in a 6 year oppurtunity cost, I'm really not seeing (even if you love playing the game) that the game is a financial success.

EA's Warhammer On Line is still on line. (I guess it's aptly named.) I'd hardly call it a success. It's been in maintenance mode for years, sucking up a small die-hard fanbase's subscription revenue (and mandatory cash shop items ie. Renown cap increase) attempting to offset its developmental cost. To me, the SWTOR freemium conversion looks like more of the same with new spin.

[mod edit]

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6821

8/09/12 10:37:57 AM#422


Originally posted by tiefighter25

If you want to be an optimist and say the game cost $200 million to develope and market and the game had a "hard" average subscriber base of a million; it would still take over a year just to break even.

Odd math you got there...


2.4M sales through in January = 2.4M x 60 USD per box = 144M USD.
1M subscribers for 7 months = 7M x 15 USD per subscriber = 105M USD.

So all in all that is 249M USD.

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

8/09/12 10:54:08 AM#423
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by tiefighter25

If you want to be an optimist and say the game cost $200 million to develope and market and the game had a "hard" average subscriber base of a million; it would still take over a year just to break even.


 

Odd math you got there...


2.4M sales through in January = 2.4M x 60 USD per box = 144M USD.
1M subscribers for 7 months = 7M x 15 USD per subscriber = 105M USD.

So all in all that is 249M USD.

You think they got anything close to $60 a box?

You also forgot the initial free month and the give away free month.

You forgot all server maintence and staff benefits and salaries.

Assuming there was a profit you forgot taxes.

I was thumb nailing to illustrate a point. You are at best nit picking, at worst grasping at straws.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6821

8/09/12 11:02:36 AM#424


Originally posted by tiefighter25

You think they got anything close to $60 a box?

You also forgot the initial free month and the give away free month.

You forgot all server maintence and staff benefits and salaries.

Assuming there was a profit you forgot taxes.

I was thumb nailing to illustrate a point. You are at best nit picking, at worst grasping at straws.


Did not forget anything, thanks. You failed at illustrating anything tho...

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

8/09/12 11:06:15 AM#425
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by tiefighter25

You think they got anything close to $60 a box?

 

You also forgot the initial free month and the give away free month.

You forgot all server maintence and staff benefits and salaries.

Assuming there was a profit you forgot taxes.

I was thumb nailing to illustrate a point. You are at best nit picking, at worst grasping at straws.


 

Did not forget anything, thanks. You failed at illustrating anything tho...

I beg to differ, but if you want to believe that the server consolidations, several rounds of lay-offs, key executives leaving/terminated, lack of EA announcing exact active subscriber numbers, and the conversion of the game to Free To Play is because the game is a resounding financial success; that is of course your perogotive.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6821

8/09/12 11:21:11 AM#426


Originally posted by tiefighter25

I beg to differ, but if you want to believe that the server consolidations, several rounds of lay-offs, key executives leaving/terminated, lack of EA announcing exact active subscriber numbers, and the conversion of the game to Free To Play is because the game is a resounding financial success; that is of course your perogotive.

I guess it comes down what you consider "failure".

If you attribute server consolidation, layoffs, executives leaves, no exact subscriber numbers and F2P conversion as "failure", it will be a "failure". Circular reasoning as any other invalid logic proves just about anything...

  gameguy369

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/19/09
Posts: 445

8/09/12 11:24:25 AM#427
Final Fantasy 14 trumps all.
  Esquire1980

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/12/07
Posts: 530

8/09/12 11:27:38 AM#428
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Vorch

 

 

However, if you mean profitability, then no, SWTOR still remains profitable and will most likely be even more profitable as time goes on given its change to Freemium.

It certainly is not getting profitable at the moment. They say they need 500k subs to break even, and by now (within the next month at the latest) the subs will be below that, so now they are losing money on SWTOR now. They are doing F2P in hope to stop the loss

I seriously doubt that 500K+ number that was released.  They have 26 servers with any population at all.  Same as SWG (as you might remember before the mess at C6CD and server closures) .  Before C6CD, Smed released he had 100K+ subs, at max SWG was reported to have 300K - 350K subs.  That put at least 11K subs on each of their SWG 26 servers and it would seem that TOR servers (according to TORstatus) is capped at or around 4K concurrent log-ons at any 1 time.  It would seem that hardly any of the TOR servers hit full and Qs anylonger also.

Maybe that TOR number released was including all the 6 month subs that no longer play nor log on anymore as well.  However, EA knows the actual numbers for players that have not canceled, waiting their time out, and that is probably the entire reason for F2P "coming soon (tm)".  They already know they are under 500K subs and therefore under the number that "makes TOR slightly profitable" according to the pre-release talk.

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

8/09/12 11:33:05 AM#429
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by tiefighter25

I beg to differ, but if you want to believe that the server consolidations, several rounds of lay-offs, key executives leaving/terminated, lack of EA announcing exact active subscriber numbers, and the conversion of the game to Free To Play is because the game is a resounding financial success; that is of course your perogotive.

 

I guess it comes down what you consider "failure".

If you attribute server consolidation, layoffs, executives leaves, no exact subscriber numbers and F2P conversion as "failure", it will be a "failure". Circular reasoning as any other invalid logic proves just about anything...

I was trying to stay away from what seem to be the majority's consensus that the game itself was bad and focus rather on the game being a financial failure.  Server consolidation, layofs, et al. is evidence of a financial failure. I don't think my logic that the game is a finacial failure is circular. Mind you EA categorized the game as "a miss". If you want to say the game isn't a failure because it's fun or still live, fine, but it still doesn't make the game a finacial success.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6821

8/09/12 11:36:03 AM#430


Originally posted by tiefighter25

Server consolidation, layofs, et al. is evidence of a financial failure. I don't think my logic that the game is a finacial failure is circular.

No, it is not an evidence of financial failure and that is where your logic becomes circular - your premise and conclusion are the same.

  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

8/09/12 11:46:31 AM#431
Originally posted by Esquire1980
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Vorch

 

 

However, if you mean profitability, then no, SWTOR still remains profitable and will most likely be even more profitable as time goes on given its change to Freemium.

It certainly is not getting profitable at the moment. They say they need 500k subs to break even, and by now (within the next month at the latest) the subs will be below that, so now they are losing money on SWTOR now. They are doing F2P in hope to stop the loss

I seriously doubt that 500K+ number that was released.  They have 26 servers with any population at all.  Same as SWG (as you might remember before the mess at C6CD and server closures) .  Before C6CD, Smed released he had 100K+ subs, at max SWG was reported to have 300K - 350K subs.  That put at least 11K subs on each of their SWG 26 servers and it would seem that TOR servers (according to TORstatus) is capped at or around 4K concurrent log-ons at any 1 time.  It would seem that hardly any of the TOR servers hit full and Qs anylonger also.

Maybe that TOR number released was including all the 6 month subs that no longer play nor log on anymore as well.  However, EA knows the actual numbers for players that have not canceled, waiting their time out, and that is probably the entire reason for F2P "coming soon (tm)".  They already know they are under 500K subs and therefore under the number that "makes TOR slightly profitable" according to the pre-release talk.

Pre-release talk they reckoned that it would be "profitable" at about 500K, but Frank Gibau states last week that they need 500K to break even

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19077238

Payment turn-off

The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".

"The message from players exiting the game is clear, 40% say they were turned off by the monthly subscription and many indicate they would come back if we offered a free-to-play model," he told analysts, according to a transcript of the conference call provided by the Seeking Alpha financial news site.

"Our plan now is to pivot and provide a two-tiered pricing plan, which will make the game more accessible and grow the audience."

The new scheme will allow users to explore the online title's first 50 levels at no cost, although they will not have access to all its features.

Users must pay $15 (£9.50) a month for full access and a monthly allowance of in-game cash to purchase items or advance their progress.

Star Wars: The Old Republic screenshot Non-paying members cannot complete operations and have limited access to in-game auctions

In addition the firm is cutting the price that it charges for the game pack that users must buy before being able to access the MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role-playing game).

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

8/09/12 11:52:51 AM#432
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by tiefighter25

Server consolidation, layofs, et al. is evidence of a financial failure. I don't think my logic that the game is a finacial failure is circular.

 

No, it is not an evidence of financial failure and that is where your logic becomes circular - your premise and conclusion are the same.

Game costs a lot to develop. Game doesn't  retain subscribers to cover development costs. Game company executes measures to minimize losses. That is linear.  When I say someone has been shot in the head as evidenced by a gaping bullet wound, you can't call it a logical fallacy example of circular logic.

  eddieg50

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 1475

8/09/12 12:41:16 PM#433
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by eddieg50
Originally posted by eddieg50
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by eddieg50
A failure at half a million players LOL,  Vanguard would die to have a quarter that many players

The idea of what defines failure is a valid question.

Number of players? Well if you ignore WoW, Guild Wars, Linegage, FF, League of Legions and a host of others then SWTOR didn't do very well.

Ah number of players for a western subscription game you may cry. OK - but on that definition it isn't much better than WAR or AoC. WAR still had 300k+ subs in month 7 and AoC held onto a lot of subs pretty much until WAR launched; AoC still had about 100-150k 11 months after it launched. (Source: EA and Funcom's financial reports -  at the end Funcom gave a revenue range for AoC hence the range for the subs). Even EQ1 managed 650k subs at its peak and 450k for quite a while. UO as well. And we know that SWTOR wil have 0 subscribers in November so at that point it is a failure by this measure.

Sales? Dwarfed by WoW, GW, EQ1, FF, Lineage.

Longevity - no. SWTOR will probably see out 2 or 3 years because of the IP agreement but it doesn't look good.

Profit made. Not a good measure at all. SWTOR cost a lot. And factor in part of the purchase price for Bioware - EA expected 1.2M subscribers at the time they bought  Bioware (source JR after the May results) .... dwarfs the reported $120 for VSoH, AoC was less still and even factoring in $84M or so for buying Mythic WAR will have looked cheap. Ditto TR when allowing for the stock options / damages that RG won in the court case against NCSoft. Against this measure - profit/return on investment  - SWTOR is a solid candidate for greatest failure.

Content: not great for an mmo. People will debate the point but most agree this is a problem.

Single player experience: probably scores highly here.

MMO experience: and not very highly here.

I am sure that there are other measures though.

   I just dont think you can call an mmo a failure with a half million players, that is a problem with our society today, if you are not perfect you are a failure-I dont agree

 

I must say eddie your defense is interesting, if I'm corrrect didn't you say the same exact thing when they had 1 million subs? It was either you or someone else but if you don't see the pattern here then I almost(I said almost) fear for you. 

The direction SWTOR is moving in, is not good, 500k IMO is good but to go from approx 2 mill and to go below 1 mill in less than a year? That shit isn't good period.

Direction is not going towards success unfortunately.

 

  That was not me, although I do comment on these fourms quite a bit and I do like SWTOR, but if you read my threads you will see that I do point out the flaws in the game.   Most MMO's with the exception of  wow lose customers, it will be interesting to see if swtor can keep a good player base or not, they do need to listen to us when we say to build a more comprehensive Space game and other suggestions we make, if they do not than yes they will be doomed

  eddieg50

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 1475

8/09/12 12:52:42 PM#434
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by eddieg50
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by eddieg50
   I think SWG has to be right in there when talking about biggest failures, The Hype was HUGE, Time Magazine, News Week, it was everywhere, then when people started playing it they were stunned by how bad it was.  You could actually be killed by a butterfly, AI was totally over powered, Lag was just as bad as Vanguard, it took years to become a full fledged Jedi,  because you could not actually play the game it became a Giant chat room although it was a very good chat room. People left quickly and it was down to a small core of fanatic dedicated Star Wars players, then Sony took over and put the final nail in the Coffin.   Yes Epic Failure!

I have to disagree with this. Yes, that game when it released had tons of issues, but it still had a lot of people playing it. I started playing it in late 2004, a full year and a half after it had been released and there were people everywhere.  It did lose people to WOW, but it still had more than enough to maintain itself as a subscription based game. And this was back in the days when you were only allowed one character per server. What screwed galaxies was the mismanagemant by SOE and LA.  It didn't meet expectations, but then again any game with the Star Wars brand on it is going to have sky high expectations. 

   I guess i am looking at SWG because no matter who took it over, no matter what they tried to do it failed. The game had everything going for it-Open World, unique and different planets, nice harvesting, nice crafting, good space game (although it came in late when people had allready left) friendly people, nice guilds and fun places to chat.   But its fatal flaws killed it.  So I say that with all those things going for it, to die like that was an Epic Failure.

The trouble with all MMOs they change over time, although SWG had 2 changes within the same year and no one trusted SOE/LA after the NGE, despite the fact then the game had no major changes to it after the NGE.

By the time the game closed it was doing quite well, and the game was far from a failure in 2011 (SOE did a great job in turning the game around during the course of the 6 years), and last year with the free 45 days it brought a load of people back to the game, showing that there was a tonne of interest for the game still and not dead at all. The thing that made people return was the free time plus the free transfers. I suspect a loot of people would resubbed after the 45 days, but did not as the shutdown announcement beat them to it. I do not see many people playing the game for a solid 45 days and then just cancel, a lot would have subbed.

SWTOR has had many free periods, and especially with it being new and having a top rate developer with Bioware, none of the free periods boosted SWTORs servers as much as SWG last year.

Maybe Bioware can turn SWTOR around now but from what they have shown, is that the game is what it is and they can not expand upon it, like add Beast Master or multiplayer space battles etc, but just add more of what the game has already - more flashpoints, more warzones, more operation, more story etc

    You say by the time the game closed it was doing quite well,  I have  been in business for 20 years, if a business is doing quite well it does not shut down, In fact Sony did not think it was doing as well as Vanguard which has been floundering for several years. They looked at the present and future and saw no future.  Again this game had everything going for it and still failed, For a game to have inovative features, a fiercly loyal fan base, great crafting, great harvesting, great open Worlds, good graphics for the time, above average space game, and still fail is an Epic Fail

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1182

8/09/12 1:11:53 PM#435
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Esquire1980
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Vorch

 

 

However, if you mean profitability, then no, SWTOR still remains profitable and will most likely be even more profitable as time goes on given its change to Freemium.

It certainly is not getting profitable at the moment. They say they need 500k subs to break even, and by now (within the next month at the latest) the subs will be below that, so now they are losing money on SWTOR now. They are doing F2P in hope to stop the loss

I seriously doubt that 500K+ number that was released.  They have 26 servers with any population at all.  Same as SWG (as you might remember before the mess at C6CD and server closures) .  Before C6CD, Smed released he had 100K+ subs, at max SWG was reported to have 300K - 350K subs.  That put at least 11K subs on each of their SWG 26 servers and it would seem that TOR servers (according to TORstatus) is capped at or around 4K concurrent log-ons at any 1 time.  It would seem that hardly any of the TOR servers hit full and Qs anylonger also.

Maybe that TOR number released was including all the 6 month subs that no longer play nor log on anymore as well.  However, EA knows the actual numbers for players that have not canceled, waiting their time out, and that is probably the entire reason for F2P "coming soon (tm)".  They already know they are under 500K subs and therefore under the number that "makes TOR slightly profitable" according to the pre-release talk.

Pre-release talk they reckoned that it would be "profitable" at about 500K, but Frank Gibau states last week that they need 500K to break even

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19077238

Payment turn-off

The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".

"The message from players exiting the game is clear, 40% say they were turned off by the monthly subscription and many indicate they would come back if we offered a free-to-play model," he told analysts, according to a transcript of the conference call provided by the Seeking Alpha financial news site.

"Our plan now is to pivot and provide a two-tiered pricing plan, which will make the game more accessible and grow the audience."

The new scheme will allow users to explore the online title's first 50 levels at no cost, although they will not have access to all its features.

Users must pay $15 (£9.50) a month for full access and a monthly allowance of in-game cash to purchase items or advance their progress.

Star Wars: The Old Republic screenshot Non-paying members cannot complete operations and have limited access to in-game auctions

In addition the firm is cutting the price that it charges for the game pack that users must buy before being able to access the MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role-playing game).

Pre-release there was talk about 500k but in their subsequent results EA said that the game needed 500k to break even and 1M to "make a profit but nothing to write home about". So 500k to keep the game ticking over, 1M for some period of time (assumed to be 1 to 2 years by analysts etc.) to repay all the development costs. Free weekends and 30 day periods won't have helped of course.

Going F2P. Well lets assume that EA still need 500k to "break even" - I suspect it is less now but assuming 500k:

EA are assuming that they will get 50% of the income from subs, 50% from F2P (see conference call questions).

So that would be 250k subs and enough F2P folks to generate "250k's worth of money". Now F2P income is usually hifgest in month 1 but Zynga, on average, get most of their revenue from 5% of the players. So if Zynga's experience - that most F2P players don't pay (much) - then SWTOR will need 250k subs + 5M F2P folks. Hmmmm ....

Now with the cut-backs EA can - presumably - break even with less but even with a 40% cost reduction that would still require 150k subs and 3M free-to-play folk, paying every month. Not playing, zapping through the class stories and then moving on.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

8/09/12 8:26:21 PM#436
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Esquire1980
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Vorch

 

 

However, if you mean profitability, then no, SWTOR still remains profitable and will most likely be even more profitable as time goes on given its change to Freemium.

It certainly is not getting profitable at the moment. They say they need 500k subs to break even, and by now (within the next month at the latest) the subs will be below that, so now they are losing money on SWTOR now. They are doing F2P in hope to stop the loss

I seriously doubt that 500K+ number that was released.  They have 26 servers with any population at all.  Same as SWG (as you might remember before the mess at C6CD and server closures) .  Before C6CD, Smed released he had 100K+ subs, at max SWG was reported to have 300K - 350K subs.  That put at least 11K subs on each of their SWG 26 servers and it would seem that TOR servers (according to TORstatus) is capped at or around 4K concurrent log-ons at any 1 time.  It would seem that hardly any of the TOR servers hit full and Qs anylonger also.

Maybe that TOR number released was including all the 6 month subs that no longer play nor log on anymore as well.  However, EA knows the actual numbers for players that have not canceled, waiting their time out, and that is probably the entire reason for F2P "coming soon (tm)".  They already know they are under 500K subs and therefore under the number that "makes TOR slightly profitable" according to the pre-release talk.

Pre-release talk they reckoned that it would be "profitable" at about 500K, but Frank Gibau states last week that they need 500K to break even

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19077238

Payment turn-off

The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".

"The message from players exiting the game is clear, 40% say they were turned off by the monthly subscription and many indicate they would come back if we offered a free-to-play model," he told analysts, according to a transcript of the conference call provided by the Seeking Alpha financial news site.

"Our plan now is to pivot and provide a two-tiered pricing plan, which will make the game more accessible and grow the audience."

The new scheme will allow users to explore the online title's first 50 levels at no cost, although they will not have access to all its features.

Users must pay $15 (£9.50) a month for full access and a monthly allowance of in-game cash to purchase items or advance their progress.

Star Wars: The Old Republic screenshot Non-paying members cannot complete operations and have limited access to in-game auctions

In addition the firm is cutting the price that it charges for the game pack that users must buy before being able to access the MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role-playing game).

Pre-release there was talk about 500k but in their subsequent results EA said that the game needed 500k to break even and 1M to "make a profit but nothing to write home about". So 500k to keep the game ticking over, 1M for some period of time (assumed to be 1 to 2 years by analysts etc.) to repay all the development costs. Free weekends and 30 day periods won't have helped of course.

Going F2P. Well lets assume that EA still need 500k to "break even" - I suspect it is less now but assuming 500k:

EA are assuming that they will get 50% of the income from subs, 50% from F2P (see conference call questions).

So that would be 250k subs and enough F2P folks to generate "250k's worth of money". Now F2P income is usually hifgest in month 1 but Zynga, on average, get most of their revenue from 5% of the players. So if Zynga's experience - that most F2P players don't pay (much) - then SWTOR will need 250k subs + 5M F2P folks. Hmmmm ....

Now with the cut-backs EA can - presumably - break even with less but even with a 40% cost reduction that would still require 150k subs and 3M free-to-play folk, paying every month. Not playing, zapping through the class stories and then moving on.

Well .. 500k subs to break even is nice and dandy .. but EA never gave a time frame for this.  500k for how long?  for 1 month? NO .. for 6 month? NO  for 3-6 years? plausible.

 

EA is going down a very dark path with this game.  It had numerous problems and the dev team could not correct them (see patches).

 

Shit, I'm not buying a game anytime soon unless it is sandbox.  Tired of hoping for a good result with themeparks - not possible.

For my sandbox I hope Archeage or The Repopulation delivers :-)

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15267

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

8/09/12 8:38:15 PM#437

Biggest failure? Don't know, but from a personal perspective looking at the game compared to some others, no. Couldn't care less about It's commercial success or lack there of. When I look at MMO launches I've played through I'd say it was okay, yet the game was only good for one purpose IMO, playing through the stories. Which were intact with no large content gaps . AOC on the other hand...

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Tawn47

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/07
Posts: 515

8/10/12 2:55:45 AM#438
Originally posted by eddieg50
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by eddieg50
Originally posted by ktanner3
 

I have to disagree with this. Yes, that game when it released had tons of issues, but it still had a lot of people playing it. I started playing it in late 2004, a full year and a half after it had been released and there were people everywhere.  It did lose people to WOW, but it still had more than enough to maintain itself as a subscription based game. And this was back in the days when you were only allowed one character per server. What screwed galaxies was the mismanagemant by SOE and LA.  It didn't meet expectations, but then again any game with the Star Wars brand on it is going to have sky high expectations. 

   I guess i am looking at SWG because no matter who took it over, no matter what they tried to do it failed. The game had everything going for it-Open World, unique and different planets, nice harvesting, nice crafting, good space game (although it came in late when people had allready left) friendly people, nice guilds and fun places to chat.   But its fatal flaws killed it.  So I say that with all those things going for it, to die like that was an Epic Failure.

The trouble with all MMOs they change over time, although SWG had 2 changes within the same year and no one trusted SOE/LA after the NGE, despite the fact then the game had no major changes to it after the NGE.

By the time the game closed it was doing quite well, and the game was far from a failure in 2011 (SOE did a great job in turning the game around during the course of the 6 years), and last year with the free 45 days it brought a load of people back to the game, showing that there was a tonne of interest for the game still and not dead at all. The thing that made people return was the free time plus the free transfers. I suspect a loot of people would resubbed after the 45 days, but did not as the shutdown announcement beat them to it. I do not see many people playing the game for a solid 45 days and then just cancel, a lot would have subbed.

SWTOR has had many free periods, and especially with it being new and having a top rate developer with Bioware, none of the free periods boosted SWTORs servers as much as SWG last year.

Maybe Bioware can turn SWTOR around now but from what they have shown, is that the game is what it is and they can not expand upon it, like add Beast Master or multiplayer space battles etc, but just add more of what the game has already - more flashpoints, more warzones, more operation, more story etc

    You say by the time the game closed it was doing quite well,  I have  been in business for 20 years, if a business is doing quite well it does not shut down, In fact Sony did not think it was doing as well as Vanguard which has been floundering for several years. They looked at the present and future and saw no future.  Again this game had everything going for it and still failed, For a game to have inovative features, a fiercly loyal fan base, great crafting, great harvesting, great open Worlds, good graphics for the time, above average space game, and still fail is an Epic Fail

Err..  SWG lasted for years (despite the NGE fiasco)..  and was not shut down because it failed  -- it was shut down because LA didn't want two SW games on the market competing with each other.  SWG was shut down to pave the way for SWTOR.   You cannot call a game that lasted 7 years without resorting to a F2P model a failure.   On the other hand, SWTOR went to F2P in record time.  Theyll tell you that its the latest trend with MMO's.. but thats just to save face.  Look at the negativity surrounding this game.  Something went seriously, seriously wrong with SWTOR and I wonder how long it will be before they pull the plug..   well all depends how many people the F2P model brings in.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6821

8/10/12 8:42:51 AM#439


Originally posted by tiefighter25
Game costs a lot to develop.

A fact.


Originally posted by tiefighter25

Game doesn't  retain subscribers to cover development costs. Game company executes measures to minimize losses.

Conclusions. Same circular reasoning I was pointing out before.


Hope that helped.

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

8/10/12 12:07:34 PM#440
Originally posted by Gdemami

 



Originally posted by tiefighter25

Game doesn't  retain subscribers to cover development costs. Game company executes measures to minimize losses.

 

Conclusions. Same circular reasoning I was pointing out before.


Hope that helped.

No it doesn't help at all. I have no idea what you are talking about. I stated that in pure fiscal terms, SWTOR is a failure. EA has stated that the game has failed to meet fiscal expectations. EA has said it is changing its pay structure to hopefully aid its underperformance.  There is a whole lot of cause and effect going on there.

[mod edit]

I state facts, you pick a term form a list of false rhetoric.

You keep stating that SWTOR is not a fiscal failure, to conclude so one would be employing circular logic. Then you never explain why that it is circular logic other then giving a thin definition as to what a conclusion derived by circular logic is.

Furthermore you never give any reason why SWOR shouldn't be considered a fiscal failure other then it isn't. Additionally you never give any reasons why one should consider SWTOR a success.

Just accusing people of circular logic and saying that FTP is the wave of the future doesn't make SWTOR any less of a financial failure.

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