I played WoW from day 1. I saw it through its ups and downs and nerfs and talent reworks and every other little blip on the radar. Anyone who has played WoW as long as i have has seen the portions of its history where "hardcore" content existed. I think this is why WoW has been so successful for as long as it has. It has consistently offered multiple layers of "difficulty" in its game model. Anyone who raided BWL or pre-BC Naxx knows what I am talking about. Those were difficult raids.

Its funny, but the game design philosophy of late to remove "penalties" or "punishment" as consequences to poor play or decisions in RPG's has served to only make them less fun. Game developers are afraid to make games too challenging in the fear that people will give up and quit playing. They are afraid to make rewards that are too powerful in the fear that players will exploit them. What we keep ending up with are watered down gaming experiences.

Originally posted by Robsolf

In terms of overall PVE/mission difficulty, TSW by a mile.  In those categories, TOR is a distant second, and only due to specific boss mob circumstances, which may have been "fixed" by now.

 

 Cant tell if serious...

Originally posted by rdrakken

Originally posted by Robsolf

In terms of overall PVE/mission difficulty, TSW by a mile.  In those categories, TOR is a distant second, and only due to specific boss mob circumstances, which may have been "fixed" by now.

 

 Cant tell if serious...

I was answering the OP's question.  They presented 4 games and asked which were the most "hardcore".  I answered based on PVE/mission content.  I wasn't aware that they were requesting a "what's hardcore?" pissing contest.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Rohn

E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson are likely spinning in their respective graves at what RPGs have become (or, perhaps they're just hoping for someone to toss them a rez, since anyone can do it).

This is quite funny since it's Gygax in Dungeons and Dragons who kinda invented the "downed state" used in GW2.

No rez's in TSW!!!@!

 

I played AD&D, Warhammer, Stormbringer, DC, MArvel and even TMNT... I do not recall a downed state >.>

You don't always die immediately in (A)D&D at zero health, you have a state in which you are bleeding/stunned but you aren't dead yet.

I do remember that rule but I don't think it was called a "downed state".  Maybe they changed the name in the newer editions (I haven't played since the 2nd edition).

I can't answer since I've only played 1 of the 4.

It is hard to believe any game with mass appeal can be considered "hardcore".

Originally posted by Tayah

Hard core? I don't think any of them could be considered hardcore. Maybe Ultima Online pre Trammel?

Early EQ, Meridian 59, Lineage... There are a lot of old MMOs that even were hardcore back then and are way beyond today, but none of those games are. At best they are "normal". I think the last really hardcore AAA MMO that launched was Lineage 2 (not counting DFO and MO since they are small indie games).

But who cares? If a game is fun it doesn´t really matter how hardcore it is, just enjoy it and stop to analyze everything.

Originally posted by bcbully

Sorry MMORPG!!! :) but I must know 

 

I left EVE out just like I leave Wilt Chamberlin out of basketball discussions. EVE is the Wilt Chamberlin of hardcore mmos.

 

I understand that people have different specific definitions off hardcore. I'm talking in general. No one is going to call Barbie's play house hardcore. 

 

So which did you choose and why?

 

inb4 - none of these! Pitfall, now that was hardcore!

 

 

 

 

 

Depends on what you mean really. I've played them all except for GW2. So I cannot answer from that perspective.

Questing: The Secret World

Getting all achievements: WoW

Getting to the top of PvP: WoW

Top PvE content (including raiding): WoW

Originally posted by dave6660

I can't answer since I've only played 1 of the 4.

It is hard to believe any game with mass appeal can be considered "hardcore".

I agree! It does look like there is a nice size audience though.

They are more like single player games with multi player instances after you finish your campaign in single player instead of MMOs to me.

So none of them.

Don't consider any of those hardcore. I recall playing Lineage 2 a ways back, that was certainly more hardcore then these 4 games.

WoW is about as hardcore as a pancake breakfast.

SWTOR is unfortunately not able to win any awards for being hardcore.

GW2 is the best game for casual players, and though I think it may turn out to be "hardcore" capable, it's not released so I'm going to have to give the vote currently to TSW.

I don't like the premise.

Hardcore isn't a function of the game, it is a function of the player.

There are people who play all of these games casually. There are people who play all of these games hardcore.

A person who spends 80+ hours a week on WoW vs. a person who logs into TSW twice a week for 2 hours. The WoW player is hardcore, even if the content isn't difficult.

Even if you asked the question a different way; which is more difficult?

Well, it depends on how you define it. If it takes 3000 hours to fully equip your toon in wow and in 300 hours of play you've completed every TSW quest......what is more difficult.

It is all too relative and without further parameters, I don't see what actual information can be gleened from this poll.

None of them are hard core. GW2 probably the most due to balanced PvP.

I'd just like to say, I haven't seen a good Hardcore thread in years.  Makes me all misty, like classic rock.

Originally posted by Icewhite

I'd just like to say, I haven't seen a good Hardcore thread in years.  Makes me all misty, like classic rock.

:)

Originally posted by bcbully

Sorry MMORPG!!! :) but I must know 

 

I left EVE out just like I leave Wilt Chamberlin out of basketball discussions. EVE is the Wilt Chamberlin of hardcore mmos.

 

I understand that people have different specific definitions off hardcore. I'm talking in general. No one is going to call Barbie's play house hardcore. 

 

So which did you choose and why?

 

inb4 - none of these! Pitfall, now that was hardcore!

 

 

 

 

 

I chose neither as I've played 2 of 4 (wow&SWTOR) and the views of the other two seems like they are all a LoL feast! Only mmo that was hardcore to me were the games like FFXI and EQ1 (never played ultima). 

No MMOs are hardcore.  They are video games.  Until they make you feel real pain (besides Carpal Tunnel), none of them will ever be hardcore.

Playing my guitars is way more hardcore than playing with myse.......my computer.

not that i have any clue what "hard core" really means, but i first narrowed my choices down to the two games that have competitive pvp.. then decided to vote for the one which isn't gear dependant.

edit: knowing full well this is a lot like saying 

which band is the most hard core?

justin bieber

new kids on the block

backstreet boys

britney spears

Originally posted by Zorgo

I don't like the premise.

Hardcore isn't a function of the game, it is a function of the player.

There are people who play all of these games casually. There are people who play all of these games hardcore.

A person who spends 80+ hours a week on WoW vs. a person who logs into TSW twice a week for 2 hours. The WoW player is hardcore, even if the content isn't difficult.

Even if you asked the question a different way; which is more difficult?

Well, it depends on how you define it. If it takes 3000 hours to fully equip your toon in wow and in 300 hours of play you've completed every TSW quest......what is more difficult.

It is all too relative and without further parameters, I don't see what actual information can be gleened from this poll.

WoW hardcore...? Don't make me laugh at that! Hardcore isn't playing a game 80 hrs a week to complete a set of gear out of "Hubbed CITIES" to do the same intances over and over again 10 times in a row to get certain pieces or dying over and over without any penalties! Hardcore gameplay is losing  2-3 hours of EXP in one death, losing gear, getting PK'd with a "Mob Train" from other players, true open world bosses, Epic crafting mats from notorius monsters, and Permadeath for "special classes " SWG JEDI" i heard pre NG!