Originally posted by drakaena
Insta win bunny hop macros are definitely too hard core for me.

You can kill an opponent by hopping? Did I miss the launch of Super Mario MMO?

From strictly a leveling up perspective in PVE, TSW is the most challenging between the 3 I have played, WOW and SWTOR being the other two.

From a PVP perspective, GW2 and its level setting of gear between players is probably the more challenging title, and from a raiding perspective, well, I never raided in SWTOR but I did in WOW and probably still feel they are tops in that category. (perhaps due to longevity)

I can't really use the term hardcore on any of these titles since there is no consequences to speak of (actual losses) in any of them.

I tend to apply that more to titles such as DF, MO, or EVE, (or heck EQ1 even)  where losing a fight means a signifcant loss of the player's progression, be it in terms of items, cash or lost exp.

none of them are hardcore lol. get a grip...

none of them are really "hardcore". Closest is probably GW2 cause its got the best pvp and pvp is "hardcore"...

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by drakaena
Why Darkfall? Because it was FFA loot? FFA doesn't mean squat if gear is irrelevant. Everyone had a bank full of spare gear ready to equip on a minutes notice. I didn't play the game much but I'll bet 25 man hard mode Mimiron in WoW was way more hardcore then anything that's ever happened in DF. And I'm certainly no fan of WoW.

Thats because it was too hardcore for you.

Doesn't even hold a candle to Darkfall.  Try fighting a non-scripted dragon in the water with your hard earned player made ship, then get attacked by a huge Kraaken.  Top it off by having enemy guilds attack you with all of this going on.  This has nothing to do with full loot, but if you want to go there I can.

Originally posted by drakaena
Insta win bunny hop macros are definitely too hard core for me.

People that are hardcore don't make excuses.

In Darkfall the people that make excuses are prey.

Originally posted by Badaboom

Darkfall.  None of the above are hardcore.  Well, I guess you could say WoW if you are raiding every night...but that is pushing it.

Definitely this.  I remember being in guilds where guys talked about dropping out of college, ditching work, and pretty much pouring all their time into dueling just to get "good".  The time those guys put in was 60-80 hours a week or more.  That was the status quo for that game, not the outliers.  If you were a casual like me, you didn't really stand much chance in pvp.   None of those other games even come close to Darkfall.

Originally posted by Kyleran

From strictly a leveling up perspective in PVE, ...., WOW and SWTOR being the other two.

I've played SW:TOR, I still play WoW, but leveling up in GW2 is definitely more hardcore (hardcore being meant as "challenging" here) than those two. WoW leveling is pretty much facerolling your keyboard, and in SW:TOR, only a few fights in your personal story are remotely challenging. In GW2, beside the most easy mobs, if you just stand there half afk spamming your auto attack, you will die, you have to actively play the game.

Only commenting on the leveling part here of course.

And about TSW... I played it too, for a long time, in the closed beta (the one you could play all the time, not just during events). Leveling wasn't any harder than WoW or SW:TOR, combat is also facerolling your keyboard (any MMO veteran isn't afraid of "mob density", that doesn't make a game difficult, just more annoying to navigate through).

I don't post much on here, but calling a game hardcore is kind of losing the plot in my opinion.

Start of old man's gibbering....

Maybe it's just you youngsters with your back to front talk, you know, wikid = good, cool=hot etc. but every one of them is a game.

If you want a hardcore game, try something that involves more than pressing a few keys. Now I love mmo's , but they are not hardcore, games are not hardcore. They are trivial, enjoyable time sinks, same as tv, music, film etc.  Try and get some perspective back on life lads and lassies, eh.

End of old man's gibbering.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Kyleran

From strictly a leveling up perspective in PVE, ...., WOW and SWTOR being the other two.

I've played SW:TOR, I still play WoW, but leveling up in GW2 is definitely more hardcore (hardcore being meant as "challenging" here) than those two. WoW leveling is pretty much facerolling your keyboard, and in SW:TOR, only a few fights in your personal story are remotely challenging. In GW2, beside the most easy mobs, if you just stand there half afk spamming your auto attack, you will die, you have to actively play the game.

Only commenting on the leveling part here of course.

And about TSW... I played it too, for a long time, in the closed beta (the one you could play all the time, not just during events). Leveling wasn't any harder than WoW or SW:TOR, combat is also facerolling your keyboard (any MMO veteran isn't afraid of "mob density", that doesn't make a game difficult, just more annoying to navigate through).

After having played GW2, it probably has the easiest combat I've played in a long time, with some very easy mobs as well.  Generally speaking, TSW has tougher, more complex mobs to fight, and the skills a player selects has more bearing on combat effectiveness than in GW2.  It also has no auto-attack.

GW2's consequences for death, as previously stated, are also negligible, EZ-mode play.

Overall, TSW has more challenging mechanics, and is far less forgiving than GW2.

That doesn't even start to go into the difficulty of the missions themselves.  TSW often requires a lot of thinking, where in GW2, the player need only stumble around the world to be spoonfed quests in which "everyone's a winner".  Finding things like quest-givers and mailboxes apparently was just too hard.  GW2 continues the trend of dumbing down gameplay for the masses.

Originally posted by Orgone

I don't post much on here, but calling a game hardcore is kind of losing the plot in my opinion.

 

Start of old man's gibbering....

Maybe it's just you youngsters with your back to front talk, you know, wikid = good, cool=hot etc. but every one of them is a game.

If you want a hardcore game, try something that involves more than pressing a few keys. Now I love mmo's , but they are not hardcore, games are not hardcore. They are trivial, enjoyable time sinks, same as tv, music, film etc.  Try and get some perspective back on life lads and lassies, eh.

 

End of old man's gibbering.

 

 

Ok   

5 more minutes just 5! 

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Kyleran

From strictly a leveling up perspective in PVE, ...., WOW and SWTOR being the other two.

I've played SW:TOR, I still play WoW, but leveling up in GW2 is definitely more hardcore (hardcore being meant as "challenging" here) than those two. WoW leveling is pretty much facerolling your keyboard, and in SW:TOR, only a few fights in your personal story are remotely challenging. In GW2, beside the most easy mobs, if you just stand there half afk spamming your auto attack, you will die, you have to actively play the game.

Only commenting on the leveling part here of course.

And about TSW... I played it too, for a long time, in the closed beta (the one you could play all the time, not just during events). Leveling wasn't any harder than WoW or SW:TOR, combat is also facerolling your keyboard (any MMO veteran isn't afraid of "mob density", that doesn't make a game difficult, just more annoying to navigate through).

 

After having played GW2, it probably has the easiest combat I've played in a long time, with some very easy mobs as well.  Generally speaking, TSW has tougher, more complex mobs to fight, and the skills a player selects has more bearing on combat effectiveness than in GW2.  It also has no auto-attack.

GW2's consequences for death, as previously stated, are also negligible, EZ-mode play.

Overall, TSW has more challenging mechanics, and is far less forgiving than GW2.

That doesn't even start to go into the difficulty of the missions themselves.  TSW often requires a lot of thinking, where in GW2, the player need only stumble around the world to be spoonfed quests in which "everyone's a winner".  Finding things like quest-givers and mailboxes apparently was just too hard.  GW2 continues the trend of dumbing down gameplay for the masses.

Nice post btw 

Originally posted by bcbully

Sorry MMORPG!!! :) but I must know 

 

I left EVE out just like I leave Wilt Chamberlin out of basketball discussions. EVE is the Wilt Chamberlin of hardcore mmos.

 

I understand that people have different specific definitions off hardcore. I'm talking in general. No one is going to call Barbie's play house hardcore. 

 

So which did you choose and why?

 

inb4 - none of these! Pitfall, now that was hardcore!

 

 

 

 

 

I actually thought this was a troll post, none of those games are hardcore at all...none of them even have any real penalty upon death.  OWPVP is nearly non-existent in all of them...not knocking them, but hardcore would be something like:

1.  Eve

2. Darkfall

3. MO

4. UO

5.  Other games with consenquences and a brutal pvp environment.

Originally posted by afhn2110

Originally posted by bcbully

Sorry MMORPG!!! :) but I must know 

 

I left EVE out just like I leave Wilt Chamberlin out of basketball discussions. EVE is the Wilt Chamberlin of hardcore mmos.

 

I understand that people have different specific definitions off hardcore. I'm talking in general. No one is going to call Barbie's play house hardcore. 

 

So which did you choose and why?

 

inb4 - none of these! Pitfall, now that was hardcore!

 

 

 

 

 

I actually thought this was a troll post, none of those games are hardcore at all...none of them even have any real penalty upon death.  OWPVP is nearly non-existent in all of them...not knocking them, but hardcore would be something like:

1.  Eve

2. Darkfall

3. MO

4. UO

5.  Other games with consenquences and a brutal pvp environment.

Idk TSW repair cost are brutally high... Honest lol.

Originally posted by afhn2110

Originally posted by bcbully

Sorry MMORPG!!! :) but I must know 

 

I left EVE out just like I leave Wilt Chamberlin out of basketball discussions. EVE is the Wilt Chamberlin of hardcore mmos.

 

I understand that people have different specific definitions off hardcore. I'm talking in general. No one is going to call Barbie's play house hardcore. 

 

So which did you choose and why?

 

inb4 - none of these! Pitfall, now that was hardcore!

 

 

 

 

 

I actually thought this was a troll post, none of those games are hardcore at all...none of them even have any real penalty upon death.  OWPVP is nearly non-existent in all of them...not knocking them, but hardcore would be something like:

1.  Eve

2. Darkfall

3. MO

4. UO

5.  Other games with consenquences and a brutal pvp environment.

Even though I don't think the term "hardcore" should be applied to a hobby that involves sitting on one's rear for long periods of time while they play make believe in a virtual space, I like your list. =)

Originally posted by afhn2110

I actually thought this was a troll post, none of those games are hardcore at all...none of them even have any real penalty upon death.  OWPVP is nearly non-existent in all of them...not knocking them, but hardcore would be something like:

1.  Eve

2. Darkfall

3. MO

4. UO

5.  Other games with consenquences and a brutal pvp environment.

 Eve is not hardcore other than hard to get started without selling yourself out for protection.

Asherons Call was hardcore, I doubt most of you could handle PvP dualing ONE person for 20+ minutes before someone finally died which is exactly what would happen between 2 people with actual skill...my longest fight was almost 40 minutes and we both actually WANTED to stop, sitting in freaking SWEAT and drained of energy...thought my eyes were bleeding and wiped away all thoughts that UO could never be topped.

Originally posted by Rohn
 

After having played GW2, it probably has the easiest combat I've played in a long time, with some very easy mobs as well.

Pass level 5 and the starter area the next time you play it - I wouldn't dare to judge TSW either if I had never left Kingsmouth.

Darkfall :)

None of them are "hardcore" compared to their peers (EVE, DF, UO pre Tram). Yet there is no doubt that there are "hardcore" players playing them.

So WoW probably given that it will most likely have the most "hardcore" players within a game which is not specifically "hardcore" in and of itself. Kind of hard to comment on GW2 what with it not being out yet.

In terms of overall PVE/mission difficulty, TSW by a mile.  In those categories, TOR is a distant second, and only due to specific boss mob circumstances, which may have been "fixed" by now.