Trending Games | WildStar | Elder Scrolls Online | ArcheAge | Guild Wars 2

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,642,757 Users Online:0
Games:681  Posts:6,076,571
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Who we are among the MMO audience

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search
52 posts found
  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

 
OP  8/01/12 8:53:41 AM#1

In a conversation with Kyleran not long ago, we had gotton on the topic of the MMORPG.com subset of the MMO community. One of the things we discussed was how entrenched, knowledgeable and invested this community is, and Ky suggested posting it to the boards because it seemed a concept worth considering when gauging the general MMO community's view of an issue or subject versus the views held here.

 

Most of the people that post on MMORPG.com aren't typical MMO gamers and it seems we often forget that.

When looking at the tiers of players, there's the the big huge tier of people that are playing a game or online game. Those people refer to the game by name and probably never mention 'MMO' or even know it is an 'MMO'.

The MMORPG.com reader is about 5 or so tiers down. It is a much less sizable subgroup of people that:

  • specifically identify with MMOs
  • have their own criteria for what an MMO should be (and are often upset when that criteria is violated)
  • have an interest in the mechanics and design of MMOs
  • have registered on a site to discuss MMOs... at ridiculous length


Replace 'MMOs' with 'Cars' and you can easily see the massive separation and disconnect between
- the person that drives a car
and
- the person posting on his favorite car discussion site about why the classic carburetor is for real car enthusiasts while the modern electronic ignition is for people who just want to drive around without even bothering to understand the vehicle.

 

 Often we speak for the greater group, assuming that if it is important to us, it is important to the majority of MMO gamers. MMORPG.com posters (or any other entrenched, knowledgable and invested group) are, in many cases and on many topics, distinctly different in their priorities and concerns than the majority of MMO gamers. When discussing what MMO gamers want, like, or prefer it seems a good idea to take a step back and try to gauge if this is of concern or importance to the average gamer or just this subset.

 

Do you agree or am I just off my rocker? :)
 

  k-damage

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/11
Posts: 751

8/01/12 8:57:00 AM#2

Very interesting topic I'd say, I'd love to have some real satisfaction metrics about the mmo crowd, outside of forum discussion.

I'll search the web when I'll have time, there might some kind of report somewhere, for some mmo, at some time.

edit : Sorry lol, I just realized how silly the hope of having one studio releasing satisfaction metrics over subscription numbers is. 

- "Hey, investors ! look ! So we have 3 million subs this month, but 2 millions unsatisfied customers !"

It will remain a mystery I'm afraid.

***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 10803

8/01/12 9:01:36 AM#3
Originally posted by Loktofeit

Replace 'MMOs' with 'Cars' and you can easily see the massive separation and disconnect between
- the person that drives a car
and
- the person posting on his favorite car discussion site about why the classic carburetor is for real car enthusiasts while the modern electronic ignition is for people who just want to drive around without even bothering to understand the vehicle.

Do you agree or am I just off my rocker? :)
 

i used to hang around alot more at a similar site called rpgdot.com but that site died so here i am

 

i agree w your analogy of different car interests

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9953

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

8/01/12 9:02:00 AM#4

Holy cr@p. You made an accurate analogy. On the internet. On the MMORPG forums. I feel like I've just seen Bigfoot.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6382

8/01/12 9:10:11 AM#5


It is just natural to judge upon prior experience so if you are tightened up with your community or environment, you may become less susceptible to anything outside.

  Aethaeryn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 1846

8/01/12 9:23:27 AM#6

Yaeh I agree. . I think that is why there is so much heated passion here. . SWTOR vs. WoW. . Ford vs. whatever.  It is a decent analogy.

 

The only flaw is that most people that I know require a car for daily functions like getting to work etc.  MMOs are much more a preference so people that play them tend to have a greater intererest than the average person who "uses" a car to get to something else.  the MMO is the goal and focus.

 

Having said that. . there is a growing base of "MMO" players who are playing MMOs just because they happen to have that structure and they think they like the content.  Many games are multi-player now and so you get the argument , even here, that Diablo 3 is an MMO.  

 

We ARE like the old guys hanging around the car shop compaining about things that most people don't care about.  The casual player that is.  I am becoming more of a casual player myself.    Interesting post. . not quite an accurate analogy in my opinion but it gets the point across.

Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16607

8/01/12 9:26:20 AM#7
Originally posted by Loktofeit

In a conversation with Kyleran not long ago,

 

 Often we speak for the greater group, assuming that if it is important to us, it is important to the majority of MMO gamers.

 

Do you agree or am I just off my rocker? :)
 

1, careful of that Kyleran, he once shot a man for snoring in his sleep...

2, bingo

3, nope, spot on.

 

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5357

I dare you to pin a label on me.

8/01/12 9:30:47 AM#8
Originally posted by Loktofeit

[...] Often we speak for the greater group, assuming that if it is important to us, it is important to the majority of MMO gamers. [...]

Very well said. Too often posters simply dismiss the objective data if it contradicts their views. For example, World of Warcraft is a great game, the sales numbers prove that. No matter how much you hate it yourself, it has done many things right and many people are entertained by playing it.

Also, it is silly how some posters imply that their preferred style of MMOs require a "refined taste", like its some form of higher art or some such. That somehow "the common rabble" can't understand the intricacies and nuances of their game.

It is quite amusing to watch at times, but not as much as knocking them off their high horse.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16607

8/01/12 9:34:51 AM#9

These two quotes are also spot on...

 
Aethaeryn
 
"We ARE like the old guys hanging around the car shop compaining about things that most people don't care about.  The casual player that is.  "
 
Quirhid
 
"Too often posters simply dismiss the objective data if it contradicts their views."
  Naqaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1672

8/01/12 9:39:14 AM#10

We're the 1% ...

  Naqaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1672

8/01/12 9:45:21 AM#11
Originally posted by Sovrath
Quirhid
 
"Too often posters simply dismiss the objective data if it contradicts their views."

I agree with the general notion, but the problem with this is that while data is always objective, the interpretation is not. And what people throw around here is always the interpretation that suits them, usually spiced with lovely terms like 'obvious', 'clearly', 'common sense' etc. 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18361

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

8/01/12 9:50:18 AM#12

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Loktofeit

In a conversation with Kyleran not long ago,

 

 Often we speak for the greater group, assuming that if it is important to us, it is important to the majority of MMO gamers.

 

Do you agree or am I just off my rocker? :)
 

1, careful of that Kyleran, he once shot a man for snoring in his sleep...

Nonsense.  But I have let tanks die (repeatedly) who make the mistake of saying the healer is at fault for not keeping them healed enough.  I also put the finishing kill shot on a fleetmate who was taking heavy fire because his yammering in vent fleet chat was pissing me off.  Was worth having to buy him a new ship afterwards.

2, bingo

3, nope, spot on.

 

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Loktofeit

[...] Often we speak for the greater group, assuming that if it is important to us, it is important to the majority of MMO gamers. [...]

Very well said. Too often posters simply dismiss the objective data if it contradicts their views. For example, World of Warcraft is a great game, the sales numbers prove that. No matter how much you hate it yourself, it has done many things right and many people are entertained by playing it.

Also, it is silly how some posters imply that their preferred style of MMOs require a "refined taste", like its some form of higher art or some such. That somehow "the common rabble" can't understand the intricacies and nuances of their game.

It is quite amusing to watch at times, but not as much as knocking them off their high horse.

Perhaps attaching elitism is incorrect, but the fact is some MMO's such as EVE have mechanics, intracacies and nuances that the typical gamer either can't or doesn't want to master.

I'm seeing this with TSW right now, the skill wheel can actually be quite complicated, and putting together the right build for the right situation can really take some thought, but clearly some folks don't grasp this, or they do but don't want to be bothered with it.

And there's really nothing wrong with someone taking a little bit of pride in mastering something, even if its only MMO game mechanics such as learning how to make boatloads of ISK when many others are unable to.

Now back to the OP, I did agree with Lokto back when he first brought it up, the poster here really don't represent the typical gamer nor their desires, so a developer really couldn't use what we want as reasonable feedback if trying to build a popular, and broadly selling MMO, which sadly most investors are insisting they build for.

 

 

"The discrepancy between what we know is possible and what we currently have to choose from is beyond disappointing" - GeezerGamer
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Amaranthar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2146

8/01/12 9:56:34 AM#13

Trying to save a failing industry by pointing out that the complainers are only a few people, when the masses are indeed leaving, just doesn't work.

Once upon a time....

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5357

I dare you to pin a label on me.

8/01/12 10:03:25 AM#14
Originally posted by Kyleran

Perhaps attaching elitism is incorrect, but the fact is some MMO's such as EVE have mechanics, intracacies and nuances that the typical gamer either can't or doesn't want to master.

I'm seeing this with TSW right now, the skill wheel can actually be quite complicated, and putting together the right build for the right situation can really take some thought, but clearly some folks don't grasp this, or they do but don't want to be bothered with it.

And there's really nothing wrong with someone taking a little bit of pride in mastering something, even if its only MMO game mechanics such as learning how to make boatloads of ISK when many others are unable to.

Now back to the OP, I did agree with Lokto back when he first brought it up, the poster here really don't represent the typical gamer nor their desires, so a developer really couldn't use what we want as reasonable feedback if trying to build a popular, and broadly selling MMO, which sadly most investors are insisting they build for.

 

 

Let me give you a counter example:

  • Arena PvP - Many people (many of the posters I referred to) perceive arena PvP as being "a frenzy".
  • Combat without trinity - Some posters say that combat without the holy trinity is "mindless zerging".

Aren't those people missing the intricacies and nuances of those features and mechanics? But then again you can notice and understand everything and still it wont please you. Still that doesn't make me or you any superior.

For example, the lack of an auction house creates depth to trading. I understand it completely, but like you said, I don't care about it. If the game is about slaying monsters its that it has to focus on. Everything else is more or less an inconvenience.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16607

8/01/12 10:13:56 AM#15
Originally posted by Amaranthar

Trying to save a failing industry by pointing out that the complainers are only a few people, when the masses are indeed leaving, just doesn't work.

Are the masses indeed leaving?

The mmo audience seems to be made of:

Early adopters or "pre-wow" plaeyrs

WoW players who dont' know much about mmo's other than WoW OR they are looking for WoW 2.0

Gamers who just like games and jump from one game to another for something new.

later mmo adopters (WoW and after) who don't fall under the "die hard WoW" fanbase but who discovered mmo's and all of the different games when the industry grew.

 

Each one of these groups has different desires and needs and in many cases there are very real reasons particular to that group that would  be reason enough to have them leave a game.

This is coupled with all the different reasons why one would leave a particular game in the first place.

What often happens is someone makes a bold statement that a certain game failed because of "X" when if one actually looked at all the facts their would be "Y & Z" reasons.

For instance "Age of Conan failed because it was a themepark" when most purchasers knew this or didn't care but wanted to play in the Conan universe only to find many bugs, uneven leveling, 1-20 experience that dwarfed the rest of the game play, not enough content through the whole experience up to and including "end game".

They essentially want to say "Correlation proves Causation" when it's just not true.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

8/01/12 10:15:24 AM#16
Originally posted by Quirhid

For example, the lack of an auction house creates depth to trading. I understand it completely, but like you said, I don't care about it. If the game is about slaying monsters its that it has to focus on. Everything else is more or less an inconvenience.

True.  There is one thing though.

Mmorpg developers often feed community with posts, blogs, and various information about crafting and economy and even sometimes advertise it. 

Then they provide this feature as some totally primitve, meaningless thing.

That's why some part of playerbase have every right to be angry.

 

If game is 'about slaying monsters' then it should be communicated honestly with "our mmorg is mainly about combat and fun, we focus on it and other things are just for little distraction and not important or rich features".

 

Most companies don't do that and then part of playerbase have every right to bash non-combat things.

Because which mmorpg honestly said that game is about slaying monsters almost exclusively?

Without that you cannot say 'if game is about slaying monsters' because WHO would decide that?

Me? You?  Jon from Alaska? Mark from Czech Republic?

 

Mmorpg developers try to please too wide playerbase and because mmorpg crowd is not fresh but seasoned as majority already played some mmorpg in past, be it WoW or be it UO or be it some asian f2p game.

Yet they still try to create game by going same design like mmorpg's would be still this 'new fresh exciting thing' that could group wide variety of diffrent players for long-peroid of time becasue they would be willing to go on compromises cause this mmorpg would be so new, exciting and diffrent experience.

Well mmorpg's are not new, exceptional experience anymore that's why most of 'wide-net' mmorpg's fail to keep their playerbase playing for long time peroids.

  Salahudin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 39

8/01/12 10:22:20 AM#17

After letting go of wow a year ago, last week I decided to come back to the mmorpg world.  I`ve been searching for a great game to create my cyberself, and i came across this site because of its detail and community.  i know what I`m looking for, so its just a matter of finding a game with details and opinions that fit this.  To me, what i mostly want is something that isn`t a cookie cutter in terms of how we build our characters and skillsets.  So far, i haven`t found anything promising, I thought maybe Rift (with its soul system) would be the answer, but thanks to this site I discovered this wasn`t exactly the case.

I am glad I found this site, because games of this genre take a lot of investment... time and money... and I am glad this place has a community with people who are knowledgeable, yes, but for the most part (not all) open minded in their opinions - equal in both pros and cons of games.

The only downer I have taken from this site, is that the genre seems to be in a slump... that is at least in terms of what I`m looking for. 

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

 
OP  8/01/12 10:30:59 AM#18
Originally posted by Amaranthar

Trying to save a failing industry by pointing out that the complainers are only a few people, when the masses are indeed leaving, just doesn't work.

I wasn't suggesting the concerns and interests were complaints, nor was I suggesting that they should be dismissed. Personally, I think many of the concerns and issues presented on these forums are extremely valid and would work well in a game designed to cater to this subset of MMO gamers.

Not even touching that 'failing industry' part. :)

  Amaranthar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2146

8/01/12 10:32:31 AM#19
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Amaranthar

Trying to save a failing industry by pointing out that the complainers are only a few people, when the masses are indeed leaving, just doesn't work.

Are the masses indeed leaving?

The mmo audience seems to be made of:

Early adopters or "pre-wow" plaeyrs

WoW players who dont' know much about mmo's other than WoW OR they are looking for WoW 2.0

Gamers who just like games and jump from one game to another for something new.

later mmo adopters (WoW and after) who don't fall under the "die hard WoW" fanbase but who discovered mmo's and all of the different games when the industry grew.

 

Each one of these groups has different desires and needs and in many cases there are very real reasons particular to that group that would  be reason enough to have them leave a game.

This is coupled with all the different reasons why one would leave a particular game in the first place.

What often happens is someone makes a bold statement that a certain game failed because of "X" when if one actually looked at all the facts their would be "Y & Z" reasons.

For instance "Age of Conan failed because it was a themepark" when most purchasers knew this or didn't care but wanted to play in the Conan universe only to find many bugs, uneven leveling, 1-20 experience that dwarfed the rest of the game play, not enough content through the whole experience up to and including "end game".

They essentially want to say "Correlation proves Causation" when it's just not true.

Has any game since WoW released and not lost large percentages after the first month?

Acting like it's just a few "whiners" that visit a single message board is nothing more than whitewashing a very obvious problem with the industry.

Once upon a time....

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

 
OP  8/01/12 11:02:38 AM#20
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Amaranthar

Trying to save a failing industry by pointing out that the complainers are only a few people, when the masses are indeed leaving, just doesn't work.

Are the masses indeed leaving?

The mmo audience seems to be made of:

Early adopters or "pre-wow" plaeyrs

WoW players who dont' know much about mmo's other than WoW OR they are looking for WoW 2.0

Gamers who just like games and jump from one game to another for something new.

later mmo adopters (WoW and after) who don't fall under the "die hard WoW" fanbase but who discovered mmo's and all of the different games when the industry grew.

 

Each one of these groups has different desires and needs and in many cases there are very real reasons particular to that group that would  be reason enough to have them leave a game.

This is coupled with all the different reasons why one would leave a particular game in the first place.

What often happens is someone makes a bold statement that a certain game failed because of "X" when if one actually looked at all the facts their would be "Y & Z" reasons.

For instance "Age of Conan failed because it was a themepark" when most purchasers knew this or didn't care but wanted to play in the Conan universe only to find many bugs, uneven leveling, 1-20 experience that dwarfed the rest of the game play, not enough content through the whole experience up to and including "end game".

They essentially want to say "Correlation proves Causation" when it's just not true.

Has any game since WoW released and not lost large percentages after the first month?

Acting like it's just a few "whiners" that visit a single message board is nothing more than whitewashing a very obvious problem with the industry.

Kind of a red herring as they almost all lose a large percentage after the first month - it's just the consumer pattern in today's market.

However, this is where the discussion tends to enter the downward spiral, as the market and the games have changed, but you do not accept many of those changes. As a result, to cite where the market has gone and how it has succeeded would only result in it being dismissed because the examples, playerbase, business model, etc don't meet your criteria.

Again, though, no one is calling people complainers or whiners for their concerns or perspectives.

 

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search