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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » So is it just, LFG need control/support now instead of tank/heals?

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59 posts found
  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

7/31/12 2:42:30 AM#21

BAsically it will be, get 5 people and addapt your gameplay to the tools you have, everything depends on the flexibillity of the players.  

 

Most important, you want better players instead of players specced a certain way.

 

But it will take people ages to addapt to this.

 

But if they addapt to this, they will find out dungeons will feel different everytime depending on their groupsetup

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Alders

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1700

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

7/31/12 2:55:14 AM#22

LFG - need players willing to be flexible.  DPS only types need not apply.

  seridan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/12
Posts: 1212

7/31/12 3:10:50 AM#23
Originally posted by Alders

LFG - need players willing to be flexible.  DPS only types need not apply.

Exactly.... Flexible players will be the best players. Those who "want" to play with a single weapon set won't be useful in lots of situations. Those who have multiple builds and experience with most weapon sets will be the best players.

Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  jmcdermottuk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 791

7/31/12 7:11:22 AM#24

All these fears of Elitists wanting certain classes only, or refusing to take a player because he plays x class can only be overcome by us. The players. We, The Players, as a group, have to stop being such jerks. I've always hated this BS about "such and such a class is no good", or "we can't take this person because we already have 1 of x class". Those arguments have no place in GW2.

 

So, I'll be looking for "Players" to join groups for dungeons. I don't give a flying f*ck what class they are, they're welcome to join. If that means I end up with 5 of the same class, great! More ammo to fire at the idiots who say it can't be done.

 

Make the decision now that you won't be "one of those jerks" and we won't have to worry about this sort of BS ruining the game.

  botrytis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2527

7/31/12 7:16:40 AM#25

In GW1:prophecies, when Sorrows Furnace expansion came out, Mesmers could not get a group because people didn't understand them (Mesmers were always behind the scene - if they did their job well - everything was easy). So, I was one of the people to push all mesmer runs through SF and continuing throughout the game. Now there should be no elitist LFG types in theory (also being in a guild will help immensely).

I look forward to bouncing through the content with guildies, new people, and old players moved to the new game.

Since I have 2 accounts in GW1 - I may do the same in GW2 - not sure yet.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Ramanadjinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1311

7/31/12 7:21:23 AM#26

i'm expecting to see quite a bit of "group of 4 LF tank"

or "got 4 just need heals"

i hope i'm wrong though.

  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

7/31/12 7:27:03 AM#27
Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

i'm expecting to see quite a bit of "group of 4 LF tank"

or "got 4 just need heals"

i hope i'm wrong though.

As soon as you see that, find another group, because people screaminf that still have no clue about how to play the game.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  jondifool

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/07
Posts: 1122

7/31/12 7:27:07 AM#28

For players good enough where dungeons are hard enough , and it really looks like  dungeouns will be, there will instead of waisting time lfg, be some time spend where the builds is disscussed and group members are asked to bring certain skills. 

For less patient and less selfreliable players, they will ask LFG and seek for a groupcomposition based on the latest famous WIKI build to clear that dungeoun. This will happend no matter how genious system ArenaNet have developed, simply because not every one can handle the possibilities that the system offers. And there will always be a strong tendecy to blame failures on builds and not lack of personal skill.

But the real point is that instead of spending time LFG , in GW2 most people will spend time preparing, discusssing how to adjust the proffesions to bring whats needed to the table.  

 

 

read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  Mothanos

Elite Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1850

7/31/12 7:30:09 AM#29

All classes have a built in Heal / CC / Nuke, so you cant say that Joe needs to take care of CC and Frodo take care of dps.

If you wipe witha group (and you will) you cant blame any1 except if that players dint use their skills properly or dint heal himself.

 

 

  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

7/31/12 7:42:36 AM#30
Originally posted by Mothanos

All classes have a built in Heal / CC / Nuke, so you cant say that Joe needs to take care of CC and Frodo take care of dps.

If you wipe with a group (and you will) you cant blame anyone except if that player dint use their skills properly or didn't heal himself.

 

 

I corrected a few spelling bits, don't mind me...

 

But THIS. This statement sums up how the game differs entirely from a standard WoW-type trinity. Each player is equally responsible for the health of themselves/the team, keeping enemies under control, and killing enemies.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

7/31/12 7:45:08 AM#31
Originally posted by Fendel84M

Just wondering, they say they got rid of the trinity. And now they use a dps/control/support system. So does that just mean most people will still spec DPS and no one will wanna be support or control?

No, it means "Need two more for Catacombs!" That's all. There are no roles anymore... your skills have the damage, control and support aspects (with multiple often on each skill), so it's a matter of using the right skills at the right time.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16700

7/31/12 7:49:37 AM#32
Originally posted by evolver1972

No.  People will probably have to spec for balance.  So they can do different things based on the situation.  The whole idea is that you can get a group of people who are all the same class and run a hard dungeon and succeed.  So, everyone will probably have to DPS, Tank, or Heal (rez) based on the situation at the moment.  Every class has the ability to do that if necessary, although some are better at some things than others.

You won't need to stand around looking for a specific type of class.  You can say "LFG" and take first come first served regardless of class.

I think you either can specc 5 balanced builds or 3 and have one each maxed on a speciality. But the second one will probably work best for guilds, for PUGs is probably balanced characters best.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

7/31/12 7:57:13 AM#33
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by evolver1972

No.  People will probably have to spec for balance.  So they can do different things based on the situation.  The whole idea is that you can get a group of people who are all the same class and run a hard dungeon and succeed.  So, everyone will probably have to DPS, Tank, or Heal (rez) based on the situation at the moment.  Every class has the ability to do that if necessary, although some are better at some things than others.

You won't need to stand around looking for a specific type of class.  You can say "LFG" and take first come first served regardless of class.

I think you either can specc 5 balanced builds or 3 and have one each maxed on a speciality. But the second one will probably work best for guilds, for PUGs is probably balanced characters best.

Remember, though, ANet stated that people can try to force themselves into something resembling roles and have a moderate degree of success in the early areas of the game, but they'll fail in the later, more challenging content. We'll see people try to come up with "healer guardian" builds, for example, early in the game... but down the road they'll be the raggled street bums holding the "will heal for food" signs near the gates of Divinity's Reach.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

7/31/12 8:00:14 AM#34

There may be a bit of this kind of thing but it will be specific or situational. Need to keep an NPC alive and active against a dungeon boss - ask people to spec 'heal other' abilities.

Got a boss who does a 1-shot - ask people to spec fast interrupts.

The clever thing in GW2 is that no matter what class you can eventually unlock the ability to fulfill nearly (if not all, given some ingenuity) all 'requirements' PvE might throw at you, so there is not 'lockout' from 'leet' groups looking for certain capabilities based on class or race - merely one based on skill if people pay THAT much attention to it.

  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

7/31/12 8:18:45 AM#35

For specialists, it's going to depend on how they play.

 

If you get the guy that says "I'm a healer guys, I'm never getting out of water spec, I don't care, that's all I can do", that peson will fail and bring the team down with him.

 

If you get the one that says "I'm strongest in water, I'm specced for it, but I'll swap to other roles whenever the team needs", then he will do just fine.

  Zinzan

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 1368

7/31/12 9:30:52 AM#36

No trinity so everyone is equal right? Wait and see, some classes will soon emerge as being more "equal" than others and certain builds will inevitably be fotm. It's unavoidable in any game like this. The only way to avoid this is to have a completely skilless system for everyone to be truly equal, there really is no other way.

Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6169

7/31/12 4:06:47 PM#37

This is in fact the best question to ask rather some trinity BS.

 

And the answer is a qualfied "No".  The reason its "No" is that no one person can really provided enough support/CC for a dungeon.

So maybe a good guardian can provide all the healing you would need, but without a mesmer to Moa or a thief to stun, or whatever other solution, the elementalist in Ascalonian Catacombs it won't matter because you will never out heal that nasty nasty attack they have.

 

But its a qualified "No" for exactly the same reason.  People will need to make sure you are able to do SOMETHING. 

 

Bottom line is this Anet want you to work together to "win" an encounter.  This means you will need multiple people with various sorts of support.  If a group already has three people with disables they will probably recruit the last person with a particular support thing in mind, might be healing, might be missile deflection. 

 

So you want see constant spam for "LF1M, need tank then good to go".  But you may see "LF1M, make sure you have an interrupt and can use it" among a whole host of other variations.

 

You as an individual who is part of a team are not stuck in one role.  Instead you need to be able to apply certain support stuff at key times in conjunction with the rest of your team.  Thus people will be looking for things to mesh with the team.

You don't get your ticket into a team by having a 2 second daze.  You get your ticket by being able to use that 2 second daze well.  Almost every class has some variation on a 2 second interrupt.  Some classes can do a bit more than others.  But no class is gonna be the "shutdown" role filler.  You need at least two people for most dungeons to do that.  Same thing with aggro managment.  No one tank is the aggro manager, you need to do it as a team and may need to throw in things like cripples or teleports to manage it right or get the boss off someone.

 

The thing people miss is their are roles yes.  But no one person fills those roles.  That is the main design divergence. 

 

That does not mean everyone is the "support", you may have 2 mostly DPS and 3 people with a variety of support. 

For example one person with some defense healing/bubbles, and the other two are interrupts/snares for nullifying nasty attacks/bad aggro.  The DPS are for burning stuff down and have one utility to get out of trouble(some kind of CC break).

When a boss gets on one the DPSers and does a knock down, the DPSer is responsible for popping his CC break.  One of the interrupters make sure he is not hit by a super hard hit and the other lays down the snare so that the DPSer can get away and recover.  If its really bad the third person bubbles or walls to keep boss off and lays down a regen area for the DPSer.

 

This is different than a game where you see "LF1M need tank then good to go".  Usually that scenario is the sole responsibility of the tank, the healer may help to try and make sure he does not go down.  But the "get the boss off and DPS away"  portion is the job of the tank.  That is what they usually save a forced attack taunt move for.  Instead in Guild Wars 2 rather than making the mob act stupid you must counter its dangerous attack or combination of attacks and then recover tactically.

Performing such a counter generally always takes at least a combination of 2 people and may take more.  At the same time there are multiple ways to interweave support to achieve the same funcional result.

 

Decent teams will have some idea of what type of support they would need if they already have 4 people.  A guardian or ele or necro can generally put out more healing than a mesmer.  If you are going to go for a turtle type strategy you opt for one of those classes and ask for it.  On the other hand there is no real reason you need healing at all.  You could go for every single person using controls/interrupts.  Five mesmers with Moa can make the multiple mob encounters that slaughtered many people in Catacombs much easier.  Elementalists don't cast their huge devastating AOE's when they are a Moa bird and you can Moa all three mobs and Moa the ele 3 times with 5 mesmers.

 

You will most likely start seeing particular team setups get advertised in GW2 rather than the need tank or need healer spam.  As strategies become known you will see stuff like "Recruting for IWAY team"  or "Need 2 mesmers with time warp for spike team".  They will be particular but only in the context of the team build they believe has been proven to work.  In some ways this can get more elitist than typical trinity games.

In some ways this type of recruiting can be just as narrow minded and tiresome as the typical trinity system.  People will adhere to their pet strategies against all reason and are often complete weenies about it.  But the nature of the teams themselves throughout the game as a whole will vary quite a bit.

 

How can I say this with a decent amount of confidence?  Because I have played GW1 and GW2.  I can tell from playing GW2 the nature of what is possible and that is leans towards a team build dynamic rather than a role filling dynamic.  You can see in GW1 PvP and PvE that this sort of dynamic leads to certain social behaviors and recruitment.

 

It not all roses and its not always as open as people claim because people are often closeminded and more variation can actuall make people more conservative but there is much more variation on the macro scale when it comes to teams "winning" a dungeon. 

 

  Rivalen

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 509

7/31/12 4:10:47 PM#38

For the love of anything you hold dear, STEP OUTSIDE OF YOUR BOX!

 

The game requires only one thing, 5 individuals that can function as a team.

Yes, some builds will work better then others, but teamwork and people that actually react to combat will always work better in GW2 then 5 class builds.

 

I'd much rather play with someone that can actually respond to combat, know when to CC and so on then with someone with the perfect build, in this game the builds won't accomodate for player inadequacy.

 

Edit: Removing the 1st game part.

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

7/31/12 4:14:10 PM#39
Originally posted by Rivalen

For the love of anything you hold dear, STEP OUTSIDE OF YOUR BOX!

 

The game requires only one thing, 5 individuals that can function as a team.

Yes, some builds will work better then others, but teamwork and people that actually react to combat will always work better in GW2 then 5 class builds.

 

I'd much rather play with someone that can actually respond to combat, know when to CC and so on then with someone with the perfect build, this is the 1st game where the builds won't accomodate for player inadequacy.

yep

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Jimmydean

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/04
Posts: 1302

7/31/12 4:16:00 PM#40

In a perfect world, it would be " Group LF2M players". 

In reality, there will be OP classes / specs, so we will see " Group LF4M Melee Mesmers" or w/e is OP at the moment. 

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