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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » So TESO is a WoW Clone....

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132 posts found
  QuicklyScott

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/12
Posts: 448

The opinion of a penguin.

7/26/12 12:40:27 AM#21

They're all WoW clones with just a few different mechanics.  Even GW2 is a WoW clone.

 

You start off, you quest and level up, you hit max level then regurgitate developer provided content until you're bored.  WoW clone.

  Honner

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 506

7/26/12 12:42:00 AM#22
Originally posted by QuicklyScott

They're all WoW clones with just a few different mechanics.  Even GW2 is a WoW clone.

 

You start off, you quest and level up, you hit max level then regurgitate developer provided content until you're bored.  WoW clone.

if you go that way they are EQ clones including WoW

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/26/12 12:42:29 AM#23
Originally posted by deamian

MMO's are considered clones of eachother because there is an insanely large number of over sensitive MMO players who lack imagination or forward thinking of any kind.

 

Do you see racing games being compared like this? because they all have steering wheels in the cars..so they must be clones.

 

And so it continues

They're called clones because they're very clearly clones. It's not hard to tell when a game has been lifting ideas from another one. Us MMO vets were around to see vastly different MMOs with their own individuality. To us, most modern day "themeparks" seem like clones because they share 95% of the same features and design, while we're used to MMOs that shared maybe 10% of the same design.

Modern MMO players see games like LotRO and AoC as non WoW clones because, from their perspective, they're radically different from WoW. To those of us used to seeing more unique games...

 

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6043

 
OP  7/26/12 12:43:42 AM#24
Originally posted by Stizzled
Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

Besides name, Guilld Wars 2 is nothing like GW1. WoW is nothing like Warcraft besides name. Not sure how TESO get bashed for not being TES.

The difference here is that going from GW1 to GW2, and from the Warcraft RTS series to WoW, was an upgrade, the devs pushed those IPs foward. They didn't rip anything from them, only added on. With TESO they're just ripping so many things out, the dumbed down MMO combat, strict classes, race locked factions, housing, etc., the list goes on and on. Not to mention that most IPs won't ever get more than one MMO attempt, meaning that this is it, there's basically no hope of ever seeing a true ES MMO.

 

As for it being called a WoW clone, I dunno, I can't honestly say that I've read people saying it that much. I've seen a lot of people crying about it being a themepark (which isn't the same thing as being a WoW clone) and not a sandbox. Honestly, it being a themepark doesn't bother me, it's the least of my concerns with the game.

 

Huh? Dumbing down the combat? When did Elder Scrolls have good combat? Even Skyrim's combat was bashed by the general community. Seem people forget that.
Also it has active blocking and dodging mechanics now, and better spells to fight with rather than all that useless filler junk found in Oblivion and Skyrim.

Also race factions are in Skyrim as well. Where you been? The story was a all out war between races. This fit well with the multiplayer side of the game. Since TES doesn't have multiplayer at all. What's to model this after?

Also housing in TES wasn't big deal since the world was scripted for that. That doesn't work well in a MMO that has large population. Look at DR and MO. These locations would be dominated by a certain group of players. Only other option is to make it Instanced. Which defeats the point.

Also the main appeal of TES was the exploration in PvE (since it has no PvP). I don't see how you can't explore in TESO.

  MadnessRealm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2706

Ignorance is Bliss.

7/26/12 12:45:31 AM#25
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by OldManFunk
Originally posted by laokoko

I suppose GW2 being b2p made people not calling it a wow clone.  That's probably the biggest reason.

And if you want to say bad thing about GW2, you'll have a big b2p fan base behind your back waiting to stab you. 

 

GW2 isn't a WoW clone because of it's skill system, combat system, zoned world, fair and balanced sPvP, WvW, crafting system, AH features, and focus on events over quest hubs just to name a few features. Now I have to ask, am I wrong?

 

As far as TESO being called a WoW clone, there are obviously some seriously pissed off Elder Scrolls fans who are upset that the game doesn't live up to their expectations and calling a game a WoW clone is one of the biggest insults you can use on this forum without getting moded.

 

TESO isn't a WoW clone and neither is GW2.

It could be argued that throwing out what makes a TES game what it is, and replacing it with the traditionnal stuff, is a form of "WoWification" which would in turn cause players to call it a WoW clone. 

 

I mean let's face is, besides the names, TESO is nothing like a TES game. 

 

Besides name, Guilld Wars 2 is nothing like GW1. WoW is nothing like Warcraft besides name. Not sure how TESO get bashed for not being TES.

 

There's a big difference in perception. GW2 is seen as an improvement to GW1 as well as an attempt to move away from the traditional model common to our industry.  The Warcraft IP (WC1 to WC3) was not an RPG to begin with. In this case there'd be a lot less resistance towards the creation of an MMO based on the IP. Blizzard also did not make the mistake of taking out of the game, but rather to heavily expand upon it through a different medium.

 

TES on the other hand, is an IP that many players have been wishing to see in the multiplayer/MMO-sphere for a while now. TES is, much like Warcraft is, a very well-established IP. Unlike Warcraft however, TES is an open-ended RPG with a vast lore and features that have really set TES apart. I think this is the main reason why we see such resistance towards TESO. TESO isn't content with the MMO portion, they're replacing the whole RPG part as well.  TESO has also not decided to follow the lore all that much, so you end up with Factions that contains races that shouldn't necessarily be together. A combat system that is quite the opposite of what TES has offered from the beginning. Exploration and Lore set on the side. The more fleshed-out AI is also left out (Radiant AI). Features like housing are left out (because they're too hard according to Matt Firor).

 

Essentially, if you read Matt Firor's interviews, you'll quickly get the feeling that he doesn't care all that much about TES. He's making DAoC 2 and slapping the TES name on top of it. You'll also see why they're leaving features out (such as housing as mentionned in the previous post, where Firor claimed that it would be too hard to implement). This is why TESO is getting bashed.

------
Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/26/12 12:48:36 AM#26
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

Essentially, if you read Matt Firor's interviews, you'll quickly get the feeling that he doesn't care all that much about TES. He's making DAoC 2 and slapping the TES name on top of it. You'll also see why they're leaving features out (such as housing as mentionned in the previous post, where Firor claimed that it would be too hard to implement). This is why TESO is getting bashed.

I wish he was making DAoC 2. But he's not. He may be trying to replicate the PvP, but the PvE is straight from WoW.

DAoC had housing. DAoc did NOT have instancing, solo quests, phasing, and all that garbage.

The only DAoC feature he mentioned was public dungeons, which are pointless when shared with instanced dungeons. In all his interviews he talks about WoW.

  sk8chalif

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/10
Posts: 592

7/26/12 12:50:21 AM#27

Yup and all shooter are clone,...


~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

7/26/12 12:52:59 AM#28
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by OldManFunk
Originally posted by laokoko

I suppose GW2 being b2p made people not calling it a wow clone.  That's probably the biggest reason.

And if you want to say bad thing about GW2, you'll have a big b2p fan base behind your back waiting to stab you. 

 

GW2 isn't a WoW clone because of it's skill system, combat system, zoned world, fair and balanced sPvP, WvW, crafting system, AH features, and focus on events over quest hubs just to name a few features. Now I have to ask, am I wrong?

 

As far as TESO being called a WoW clone, there are obviously some seriously pissed off Elder Scrolls fans who are upset that the game doesn't live up to their expectations and calling a game a WoW clone is one of the biggest insults you can use on this forum without getting moded.

 

TESO isn't a WoW clone and neither is GW2.

It could be argued that throwing out what makes a TES game what it is, and replacing it with the traditionnal stuff, is a form of "WoWification" which would in turn cause players to call it a WoW clone. 

 

I mean let's face is, besides the names, TESO is nothing like a TES game. 

 

Besides name, Guilld Wars 2 is nothing like GW1. WoW is nothing like Warcraft besides name. Not sure how TESO get bashed for not being TES.

Do you really not know? Okay, I'm going to assume you really don't.

1.) GW2 has introduced new things to the game that its departure from it predecessor became acceptable to the supporters. It so happens that their decisions clicked with what the players are looking for.

2.) During WoW's inception there wasn't as much "EQ" clones back then to make its fans grab pitchforks and burn Blizzard. Also, Warcraft was a RTS. WoW is a MMORPG, not a MMORTS. Also I believe WoW was criticized by diehard WC3 fans because they sensed the end of Warcraft as a RTS.

3.) TES has always been a single player RPG. People were asking for a multiplayer component, Bethesda keep saying 'no'. Alright, now they give us a MMORPG. Fans are quite divided because there are those who just want multiplayer, not a MMO (I can't judge which is the dominant faction). Additionally, TESO is being developed by Zenimax Online, not Bethesda. Some people have no trust with Zenimax Online, and it didnt help that in their interviews they do not hide the fact that they just can't add some stuff to the game "because it's hard to implement". Lastly, TES already has a design that works for RPGs. It was a twitchy action RPG. Fans want to keep that. Dropping this kind of combat system is what I think fans made calling the game a "WoW clone" (that was rather shallow of them), although upon closer inspection it really isn't. The changes they introduced to the game did not click with the players.

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/26/12 12:53:19 AM#29
Originally posted by sk8chalif

Yup and all shooter are clone,...

It's easy to spot the clones. Goldeneye Wii was a CoD clone.

LotRO was a WoW clone. AoC was a WoW clone.

It's really not that difficult. "Well yeah, every MMO has quest based leveling and the same UI and class advancement system! Thats cause they're MMOs, not clones!" So here's the correction. All WoW clones have the same class systems and quest based leveling. Older MMOs did not have these things. They were all radically different from one another.

  MadnessRealm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2706

Ignorance is Bliss.

7/26/12 12:53:39 AM#30
Originally posted by OldManFunk
Originally posted by MadnessRealm

It could be argued that throwing out what makes a TES game what it is, and replacing it with the traditionnal stuff, is a form of "WoWification" which would in turn cause players to call it a WoW clone. 

 

I mean let's face is, besides the names, TESO is nothing like a TES game. 

Yes, I'll give you that the MMO won't likely be much like its namesake... but to be honest there are a lot of game features that work really well in single player and coop games but not in MMOs.

I actually argued the opposite in a previous thread on the TESO sub-forum. A lot of features that exist in the TES universe actually already exist in various MMOs. The only thing is that no developers has attempted to put them together.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5147030#5147030

It's not the best list ever, as it was done in haste, but the point is that the ideas are already out there. They just need to be put into a single game, and adapted to fit with the TES IP.

 

------
Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6043

 
OP  7/26/12 12:56:42 AM#31
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by OldManFunk
Originally posted by laokoko

I suppose GW2 being b2p made people not calling it a wow clone.  That's probably the biggest reason.

And if you want to say bad thing about GW2, you'll have a big b2p fan base behind your back waiting to stab you. 

 

GW2 isn't a WoW clone because of it's skill system, combat system, zoned world, fair and balanced sPvP, WvW, crafting system, AH features, and focus on events over quest hubs just to name a few features. Now I have to ask, am I wrong?

 

As far as TESO being called a WoW clone, there are obviously some seriously pissed off Elder Scrolls fans who are upset that the game doesn't live up to their expectations and calling a game a WoW clone is one of the biggest insults you can use on this forum without getting moded.

 

TESO isn't a WoW clone and neither is GW2.

It could be argued that throwing out what makes a TES game what it is, and replacing it with the traditionnal stuff, is a form of "WoWification" which would in turn cause players to call it a WoW clone. 

 

I mean let's face is, besides the names, TESO is nothing like a TES game. 

 

Besides name, Guilld Wars 2 is nothing like GW1. WoW is nothing like Warcraft besides name. Not sure how TESO get bashed for not being TES.

 

There's a big difference in perception. GW2 is seen as an improvement to GW1 as well as an attempt to move away from the traditional model common to our industry.  The Warcraft IP (WC1 to WC3) was not an RPG to begin with. In this case there'd be a lot less resistance towards the creation of an MMO based on the IP. Blizzard also did not make the mistake of taking out of the game, but rather to heavily expand upon it through a different medium.

 

TES on the other hand, is an IP that many players have been wishing to see in the multiplayer/MMO-sphere for a while now. TES is, much like Warcraft is, a very well-established IP. Unlike Warcraft however, TES is an open-ended RPG with a vast lore and features that have really set TES apart. I think this is the main reason why we see such resistance towards TESO. TESO isn't content with the MMO portion, they're replacing the whole RPG part as well.  TESO has also not decided to follow the lore all that much, so you end up with Factions that contains races that shouldn't necessarily be together. A combat system that is quite the opposite of what TES has offered from the beginning. Exploration and Lore set on the side. The more fleshed-out AI is also left out (Radiant AI). Features like housing are left out (because they're too hard according to Matt Firor).

 

Essentially, if you read Matt Firor's interviews, you'll quickly get the feeling that he doesn't care all that much about TES. He's making DAoC 2 and slapping the TES name on top of it. You'll also see why they're leaving features out (such as housing as mentionned in the previous post, where Firor claimed that it would be too hard to implement). This is why TESO is getting bashed.

 

WoW is EQ with Warcraft ip slapped on top. That's what happen when you cross genre. GW1 was a CORPG, and GW2 is a MMORPG. They play nothing alike. If you change the ip, nobody would even know they have anything related. Same thing apply here with TESO. Its a different genre of gaming. TES is a SRPG and TESO is a MMORPG..

You say TES is open ended, well what suggest TESO isn't as well? You can explore and venture to do whatever you want in any mmorpg. Why should TESO be any different. Hey TES didn't even have multiplayer.

Look at Skyrim. Now look at any THEMEPARK MMO. You can do everything in skyrim in any standard THEMEPARK MMO. Explore, make builds using trees, and kill random crap and do quest.

TESO allows you to do this and more. It has Massive PVP wars which TES didn't have, because it had NO-MULTIPLAYER AT ALL. And this time around you get a better combat system with active dodge and blocking, without the lame Skyrim combat. Who really like having to go into a menu to activate different spells and skills? That's lame.

  MadnessRealm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2706

Ignorance is Bliss.

7/26/12 12:57:09 AM#32
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

Essentially, if you read Matt Firor's interviews, you'll quickly get the feeling that he doesn't care all that much about TES. He's making DAoC 2 and slapping the TES name on top of it. You'll also see why they're leaving features out (such as housing as mentionned in the previous post, where Firor claimed that it would be too hard to implement). This is why TESO is getting bashed.

I wish he was making DAoC 2. But he's not. He may be trying to replicate the PvP, but the PvE is straight from WoW.

DAoC had housing. DAoc did NOT have instancing, solo quests, phasing, and all that garbage.

The only DAoC feature he mentioned was public dungeons, which are pointless when shared with instanced dungeons. In all his interviews he talks about WoW.

I was mostly referring to the 3-way Faction PvP which Firor seems to be pushing as much as possible. I completely agree with you that it's much closer to WoW than DAoC, but to me Firor is still trying to make DAoC 2, or at least one that will do better than DAoC 1, based on his own ideas of what went wrong with DAoC and he's using WoW as his source of "inspiration".

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  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/26/12 12:58:48 AM#33
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

Essentially, if you read Matt Firor's interviews, you'll quickly get the feeling that he doesn't care all that much about TES. He's making DAoC 2 and slapping the TES name on top of it. You'll also see why they're leaving features out (such as housing as mentionned in the previous post, where Firor claimed that it would be too hard to implement). This is why TESO is getting bashed.

I wish he was making DAoC 2. But he's not. He may be trying to replicate the PvP, but the PvE is straight from WoW.

DAoC had housing. DAoc did NOT have instancing, solo quests, phasing, and all that garbage.

The only DAoC feature he mentioned was public dungeons, which are pointless when shared with instanced dungeons. In all his interviews he talks about WoW.

I was mostly referring to the 3-way Faction PvP which Firor seems to be pushing as much as possible. I completely agree with you that it's much closer to WoW than DAoC, but to me Firor is still trying to make DAoC 2, or at least one that will do better than DAoC 1, based on his own ideas of what went wrong with DAoC and he's using WoW as his source of "inspiration".

There are few MMOs that did better than DAoC 1.

And the 3 faction PvP is ESSENTIAL for any PvP game, glad he's pushing it. Now I wish he could push out all the singleplayer instance garbage out the door.

  MadnessRealm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2706

Ignorance is Bliss.

7/26/12 1:01:47 AM#34
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by MadnessRealm

It could be argued that throwing out what makes a TES game what it is, and replacing it with the traditionnal stuff, is a form of "WoWification" which would in turn cause players to call it a WoW clone. 

 

I mean let's face is, besides the names, TESO is nothing like a TES game. 

 

Besides name, Guilld Wars 2 is nothing like GW1. WoW is nothing like Warcraft besides name. Not sure how TESO get bashed for not being TES.

 

There's a big difference in perception. GW2 is seen as an improvement to GW1 as well as an attempt to move away from the traditional model common to our industry.  The Warcraft IP (WC1 to WC3) was not an RPG to begin with. In this case there'd be a lot less resistance towards the creation of an MMO based on the IP. Blizzard also did not make the mistake of taking out of the game, but rather to heavily expand upon it through a different medium.

 

TES on the other hand, is an IP that many players have been wishing to see in the multiplayer/MMO-sphere for a while now. TES is, much like Warcraft is, a very well-established IP. Unlike Warcraft however, TES is an open-ended RPG with a vast lore and features that have really set TES apart. I think this is the main reason why we see such resistance towards TESO. TESO isn't content with the MMO portion, they're replacing the whole RPG part as well.  TESO has also not decided to follow the lore all that much, so you end up with Factions that contains races that shouldn't necessarily be together. A combat system that is quite the opposite of what TES has offered from the beginning. Exploration and Lore set on the side. The more fleshed-out AI is also left out (Radiant AI). Features like housing are left out (because they're too hard according to Matt Firor).

 

Essentially, if you read Matt Firor's interviews, you'll quickly get the feeling that he doesn't care all that much about TES. He's making DAoC 2 and slapping the TES name on top of it. You'll also see why they're leaving features out (such as housing as mentionned in the previous post, where Firor claimed that it would be too hard to implement). This is why TESO is getting bashed.

 

WoW is EQ with Warcraft ip slapped on top. That's what happen when you cross genre. GW1 was a CORPG, and GW2 is a MMORPG. They play nothing alike. If you change the ip, nobody would even know they have anything related. Same thing apply here with TESO. Its a different genre of gaming. TES is a SRPG and TESO is a MMORPG..

You say TES is open ended, well what suggest TESO isn't as well? You can explore and venture to do whatever you want in any mmorpg. Why should TESO be any different. Hey TES didn't even have multiplayer.

Look at Skyrim. Now look at any THEMEPARK MMO. You can do everything in skyrim in any standard THEMEPARK MMO. Explore, make builds using trees, and kill random crap and do quest.

TESO allows you to do this and more. It has Massive PVP wars which TES didn't have, because it had NO-MULTIPLAYER AT ALL. And this time around you get a better combat system with active dodge and blocking, without the lame Skyrim combat. Who really like having to go into a menu to activate different spells and skills? That's lame.

I'll just stop here. I think you show a pretty great amount of ignorance on the subjects. The first  paragraph, the first sentence even, is enough to tell me so.  My answers are there, if you still do not understand them, no amount of arguing will change that.

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Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6043

 
OP  7/26/12 1:04:43 AM#35
Originally posted by KhinRunite
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by OldManFunk
Originally posted by laokoko

I suppose GW2 being b2p made people not calling it a wow clone.  That's probably the biggest reason.

And if you want to say bad thing about GW2, you'll have a big b2p fan base behind your back waiting to stab you. 

 

GW2 isn't a WoW clone because of it's skill system, combat system, zoned world, fair and balanced sPvP, WvW, crafting system, AH features, and focus on events over quest hubs just to name a few features. Now I have to ask, am I wrong?

 

As far as TESO being called a WoW clone, there are obviously some seriously pissed off Elder Scrolls fans who are upset that the game doesn't live up to their expectations and calling a game a WoW clone is one of the biggest insults you can use on this forum without getting moded.

 

TESO isn't a WoW clone and neither is GW2.

It could be argued that throwing out what makes a TES game what it is, and replacing it with the traditionnal stuff, is a form of "WoWification" which would in turn cause players to call it a WoW clone. 

 

I mean let's face is, besides the names, TESO is nothing like a TES game. 

 

Besides name, Guilld Wars 2 is nothing like GW1. WoW is nothing like Warcraft besides name. Not sure how TESO get bashed for not being TES.

Do you really not know? Okay, I'm going to assume you really don't.

1.) GW2 has introduced new things to the game that its departure from it predecessor became acceptable to the supporters. It so happens that their decisions clicked with what the players are looking for.

2.) During WoW's inception there wasn't as much "EQ" clones back then to make its fans grab pitchforks and burn Blizzard. Also, Warcraft was a RTS. WoW is a MMORPG, not a MMORTS. Also I believe WoW was criticized by diehard WC3 fans because they sensed the end of Warcraft as a RTS.

3.) TES has always been a single player RPG. People were asking for a multiplayer component, Bethesda keep saying 'no'. Alright, now they give us a MMORPG. Fans are quite divided because there are those who just want multiplayer, not a MMO (I can't judge which is the dominant faction). Additionally, TESO is being developed by Zenimax Online, not Bethesda. Some people have no trust with Zenimax Online, and it didnt help that in their interviews they do not hide the fact that they just can't add some stuff to the game "because it's hard to implement". Lastly, TES already has a design that works for RPGs. It was a twitchy action RPG. Fans want to keep that. Dropping this kind of combat system is what I think fans made calling the game a "WoW clone" (that was rather shallow of them), although upon closer inspection it really isn't. The changes they introduced to the game did not click with the players.

 

1) GW2 hasn't released anything new. Everything can be found in some format in older titles. It plays nothing like GW1. So if TESO is a clone, than so is GW2. I can say they cloned DAOC as well here.

2) yeah wow a EQ clone, but it's ok because there wasn't a lot of EQ clones back then. Ok so how many DAoC clones we have now days?

3) it's still the same company. Do you really believe the same people that made Warcraft made WoW? Wanting multiplayer TES is vague. That's why you have bth the MMORPG genre as well as a CORPG genre. The MMORPG genre is far more popular for a reason.

  MadnessRealm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2706

Ignorance is Bliss.

7/26/12 1:04:43 AM#36
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

Essentially, if you read Matt Firor's interviews, you'll quickly get the feeling that he doesn't care all that much about TES. He's making DAoC 2 and slapping the TES name on top of it. You'll also see why they're leaving features out (such as housing as mentionned in the previous post, where Firor claimed that it would be too hard to implement). This is why TESO is getting bashed.

I wish he was making DAoC 2. But he's not. He may be trying to replicate the PvP, but the PvE is straight from WoW.

DAoC had housing. DAoc did NOT have instancing, solo quests, phasing, and all that garbage.

The only DAoC feature he mentioned was public dungeons, which are pointless when shared with instanced dungeons. In all his interviews he talks about WoW.

I was mostly referring to the 3-way Faction PvP which Firor seems to be pushing as much as possible. I completely agree with you that it's much closer to WoW than DAoC, but to me Firor is still trying to make DAoC 2, or at least one that will do better than DAoC 1, based on his own ideas of what went wrong with DAoC and he's using WoW as his source of "inspiration".

There are few MMOs that did better than DAoC 1.

And the 3 faction PvP is ESSENTIAL for any PvP game, glad he's pushing it. Now I wish he could push out all the singleplayer instance garbage out the door.

Well that's the thing. Based on what I read from Firor's interviews, it's as if the only thing he thinks DAoC did right, was the 3 Faction PvP. When you look at what DAoC players liked the most, the PvP is always at the top (and thus by definition the 3 Faction PvP), so it sort of reinforces his ideas that, while the PvP was great, that rest wasn't so great. Now what other MMORPG works really well? WoW!  Well there you go, WoW with 3 Faction PvP.

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Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6043

 
OP  7/26/12 1:08:37 AM#37
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

Essentially, if you read Matt Firor's interviews, you'll quickly get the feeling that he doesn't care all that much about TES. He's making DAoC 2 and slapping the TES name on top of it. You'll also see why they're leaving features out (such as housing as mentionned in the previous post, where Firor claimed that it would be too hard to implement). This is why TESO is getting bashed.

I wish he was making DAoC 2. But he's not. He may be trying to replicate the PvP, but the PvE is straight from WoW.

DAoC had housing. DAoc did NOT have instancing, solo quests, phasing, and all that garbage.

The only DAoC feature he mentioned was public dungeons, which are pointless when shared with instanced dungeons. In all his interviews he talks about WoW.

I was mostly referring to the 3-way Faction PvP which Firor seems to be pushing as much as possible. I completely agree with you that it's much closer to WoW than DAoC, but to me Firor is still trying to make DAoC 2, or at least one that will do better than DAoC 1, based on his own ideas of what went wrong with DAoC and he's using WoW as his source of "inspiration".

There are few MMOs that did better than DAoC 1.

And the 3 faction PvP is ESSENTIAL for any PvP game, glad he's pushing it. Now I wish he could push out all the singleplayer instance garbage out the door.

Well that's the thing. Based on what I read from Firor's interviews, it's as if the only thing he thinks DAoC did right, was the 3 Faction PvP. When you look at what DAoC players liked the most, the PvP is always at the top (and thus by definition the 3 Faction PvP), so it sort of reinforces his ideas that, while the PvP was great, that rest wasn't so great. Now what other MMORPG works really well? WoW!  Well there you go, WoW with 3 Faction PvP.

 

You never explain how it's "WoW with 3 factions". You just keep saying that, but havnt explained a thing behind the statement.

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/26/12 1:15:03 AM#38
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

Essentially, if you read Matt Firor's interviews, you'll quickly get the feeling that he doesn't care all that much about TES. He's making DAoC 2 and slapping the TES name on top of it. You'll also see why they're leaving features out (such as housing as mentionned in the previous post, where Firor claimed that it would be too hard to implement). This is why TESO is getting bashed.

I wish he was making DAoC 2. But he's not. He may be trying to replicate the PvP, but the PvE is straight from WoW.

DAoC had housing. DAoc did NOT have instancing, solo quests, phasing, and all that garbage.

The only DAoC feature he mentioned was public dungeons, which are pointless when shared with instanced dungeons. In all his interviews he talks about WoW.

I was mostly referring to the 3-way Faction PvP which Firor seems to be pushing as much as possible. I completely agree with you that it's much closer to WoW than DAoC, but to me Firor is still trying to make DAoC 2, or at least one that will do better than DAoC 1, based on his own ideas of what went wrong with DAoC and he's using WoW as his source of "inspiration".

There are few MMOs that did better than DAoC 1.

And the 3 faction PvP is ESSENTIAL for any PvP game, glad he's pushing it. Now I wish he could push out all the singleplayer instance garbage out the door.

Well that's the thing. Based on what I read from Firor's interviews, it's as if the only thing he thinks DAoC did right, was the 3 Faction PvP. When you look at what DAoC players liked the most, the PvP is always at the top (and thus by definition the 3 Faction PvP), so it sort of reinforces his ideas that, while the PvP was great, that rest wasn't so great. Now what other MMORPG works really well? WoW!  Well there you go, WoW with 3 Faction PvP.

Er, except DAoC had some of the most well balanced and challenging PvE on the market, challenging well designed raids that weren't teired, and a huge crafting and housing system..

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7249

7/26/12 1:15:34 AM#39
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Well looking over this forum's activity, it seem like the community here views TESO as a WoW clone. This come sup in just about every thread.

But what I want to know is how/why is TESO being considered a WoW clone?

How is TESO considered a WoW clone but GW2 isn't?

TESO seems to share many features with GW2, except it has three faction PvP in the world shared by PvE. You still have active dodge and block mechanics like GW2, and you have class system like GW2, and I heard it has events, but not sure to what extent. Also TESO is being backed by some DAoC developers for PvP.

Sounds closest to GW2 than WoW. So how is it a WoW clone but not GW2?

Honesty, where does the WoW come into this at all?

The man who asks the tough questions.

 

Yeah I want to know too.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

7/26/12 1:25:03 AM#40
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by KhinRunite
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by OldManFunk
Originally posted by laokoko

I suppose GW2 being b2p made people not calling it a wow clone.  That's probably the biggest reason.

And if you want to say bad thing about GW2, you'll have a big b2p fan base behind your back waiting to stab you. 

 

GW2 isn't a WoW clone because of it's skill system, combat system, zoned world, fair and balanced sPvP, WvW, crafting system, AH features, and focus on events over quest hubs just to name a few features. Now I have to ask, am I wrong?

 

As far as TESO being called a WoW clone, there are obviously some seriously pissed off Elder Scrolls fans who are upset that the game doesn't live up to their expectations and calling a game a WoW clone is one of the biggest insults you can use on this forum without getting moded.

 

TESO isn't a WoW clone and neither is GW2.

It could be argued that throwing out what makes a TES game what it is, and replacing it with the traditionnal stuff, is a form of "WoWification" which would in turn cause players to call it a WoW clone. 

 

I mean let's face is, besides the names, TESO is nothing like a TES game. 

 

Besides name, Guilld Wars 2 is nothing like GW1. WoW is nothing like Warcraft besides name. Not sure how TESO get bashed for not being TES.

Do you really not know? Okay, I'm going to assume you really don't.

1.) GW2 has introduced new things to the game that its departure from it predecessor became acceptable to the supporters. It so happens that their decisions clicked with what the players are looking for.

2.) During WoW's inception there wasn't as much "EQ" clones back then to make its fans grab pitchforks and burn Blizzard. Also, Warcraft was a RTS. WoW is a MMORPG, not a MMORTS. Also I believe WoW was criticized by diehard WC3 fans because they sensed the end of Warcraft as a RTS.

3.) TES has always been a single player RPG. People were asking for a multiplayer component, Bethesda keep saying 'no'. Alright, now they give us a MMORPG. Fans are quite divided because there are those who just want multiplayer, not a MMO (I can't judge which is the dominant faction). Additionally, TESO is being developed by Zenimax Online, not Bethesda. Some people have no trust with Zenimax Online, and it didnt help that in their interviews they do not hide the fact that they just can't add some stuff to the game "because it's hard to implement". Lastly, TES already has a design that works for RPGs. It was a twitchy action RPG. Fans want to keep that. Dropping this kind of combat system is what I think fans made calling the game a "WoW clone" (that was rather shallow of them), although upon closer inspection it really isn't. The changes they introduced to the game did not click with the players.

 

1) GW2 hasn't released anything new. Everything can be found in some format in older titles. It plays nothing like GW1. So if TESO is a clone, than so is GW2. I can say they cloned DAOC as well here.

2) yeah wow a EQ clone, but it's ok because there wasn't a lot of EQ clones back then. Ok so how many DAoC clones we have now days?

3) it's still the same company. Do you really believe the same people that made Warcraft made WoW? Wanting multiplayer TES is vague. That's why you have bth the MMORPG genre as well as a CORPG genre. The MMORPG genre is far more popular for a reason.

Your OP was just about WoW clone branding. I dont think it warrants bringing up DAOC into this, which has never been an issue.

1.) I don't want to get into this wheel again. GW2 introduced new things to GW1 was what I said, not to the genre. And I also don't want to get into the innovative circle either. I'm done with that "Everything can be found in some format in older titles", because while that is true, it's also true that "There's not one MMORPG out there that delivered them all in the one package as GW2 did". It's a stalemate. It's also not about how the sequel plays nothing than its predecessor. It's the acceptance to the change that matters here. It's the perception of improvement. If TESO is considered a WoW clone, these same people should also view GW2 as a WoW clone, just as you said. We agree as much as that.

2.) I don't see people being tired of DAoC clones yet. How many do we have indeed? Games that are active, take note.

3.) WC is a RTS. For a RPG Blizzard decided to go with a different designer. But it's important to note that Rob Pardo, designer of WC3 was one of the designers in WoW (up until BC?). It shouldn't also make it an automatic negative that ZO is handling TESO instead of Bethesda, but their interviews did not help their image to the already pessimistic. I don't have any comment on your views on multiplayer, CORPG and MMORPG. I personally just wanted to play Oblivion and Skyrim along with my brother and wife. It doesn't matter to me if its a MMO or LAN multiplayer (although LAN would be more favorable to me).

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