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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

Beta Weekend Event Reviews & Impressions (Archived)  » After playing all 3 BWEs, here is my little review.(rating+pros/cons)

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37 posts found
  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4660

7/25/12 11:04:29 PM#21
Originally posted by otinanai123

The video you posted actually proves my point. The 3 players are either bad or played really badly in that fight. Where was the cc? where was the stability?  If there was no downed mechanic he would have beaten them much much easier. The downed mechanic allowed the less skilled players to actually almost kill him (he was lucky one player was almost dead when they downed him)

Uhm... wow.

Okay, first off, you STILL haven't answered my question.

"Why, in a SKILL-BASED GAME, should a single player be able to win against 3 equally skilled players?"

Secondly, as I've already stated multiple times, that video proves that it's not impossible to win a 1v3 because of the downed mechanic. I'm not sure what part of that isn't clear? Teldo faced 3 opponents, he killed all 3 opponents. Who is or isn't skilled is an entirely different conversation.

Thirdly, things like CC and stability have a cooldown and were being used throughout the fight. He even explains this throughout the video. Just because they exist in the game doesn't mean that a person is going to have both available, at all times, for when they need it. If they pop a CC breaker to get out of a stun, they aren't going to have it the next time they get stunned (unless they are running a build w/ multiple CC breakers, which we just don't know).

And lastly (and I'm really getting tired of repeating myself), if there was no downed mechanic, Teldo (the single engineer in the video) would've been dead, before the fight finished. He wouldn't have won that. I'm not sure whether you missed the first time he died (and rallied), or the second time he died (and rallied), but he died twice during that fight. That's part of the downed mechanic.

  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1284

7/25/12 11:09:09 PM#22

i can agree about rally with the poster above Rally was something I truely hated at first but then learned how to use it correctly and I love it. I think engineers and elementalists have it made with downed though some other classes have it a lot harder. That bomb an engie throws is a huge dps bomb and the ele has two nice skills with lava font and get away as a mist form. It takes getting used to but now i like it as it gives you a nice fighting chance to come back if you can outwit the enemy.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4660

7/25/12 11:37:16 PM#23
Originally posted by cronius77

i can agree about rally with the poster above Rally was something I truely hated at first but then learned how to use it correctly and I love it. I think engineers and elementalists have it made with downed though some other classes have it a lot harder. That bomb an engie throws is a huge dps bomb and the ele has two nice skills with lava font and get away as a mist form. It takes getting used to but now i like it as it gives you a nice fighting chance to come back if you can outwit the enemy.

Ya, I also used to really hate the mechanic as well, tbh.

However, once they changed it this last BWE (it's a lot more balanced now), it's actually a fairly nice feature. It can still be annoying getting interrupted by a random dead person, but it still makes for some interesting fights. It also prevent some of the cheese that we had in GW1, where if you had a player get spiked early it was difficult to recover from that unless the enemy dropped the ball.

 

  otinanai123

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 272

 
OP  7/25/12 11:48:49 PM#24
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by otinanai123

The video you posted actually proves my point. The 3 players are either bad or played really badly in that fight. Where was the cc? where was the stability?  If there was no downed mechanic he would have beaten them much much easier. The downed mechanic allowed the less skilled players to actually almost kill him (he was lucky one player was almost dead when they downed him)

Uhm... wow.

Okay, first off, you STILL haven't answered my question.

"Why, in a SKILL-BASED GAME, should a single player be able to win against 3 equally skilled players?"

Secondly, as I've already stated multiple times, that video proves that it's not impossible to win a 1v3 because of the downed mechanic. I'm not sure what part of that isn't clear? Teldo faced 3 opponents, he killed all 3 opponents. Who is or isn't skilled is an entirely different conversation.

Thirdly, things like CC and stability have a cooldown and were being used throughout the fight. He even explains this throughout the video. Just because they exist in the game doesn't mean that a person is going to have both available, at all times, for when they need it. If they pop a CC breaker to get out of a stun, they aren't going to have it the next time they get stunned (unless they are running a build w/ multiple CC breakers, which we just don't know).

And lastly (and I'm really getting tired of repeating myself), if there was no downed mechanic, Teldo (the single engineer in the video) would've been dead, before the fight finished. He wouldn't have won that. I'm not sure whether you missed the first time he died (and rallied), or the second time he died (and rallied), but he died twice during that fight. That's part of the downed mechanic.

I have a feeling I'm being trolled. Anyway I don't want to derail the thread. Let's agree to disagree.

 

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4660

7/26/12 12:11:20 AM#25
Originally posted by otinanai123

I have a feeling I'm being trolled. Anyway I don't want to derail the thread. Let's agree to disagree.

I'm beginning to feel the same way.

Not sure if you're being serious, if I'm just talking to a wall, or you are honestly just not reading my posts. Anyways, if you don't want to have a discussion, then I'll stop wasting my time.

  User Deleted
7/26/12 12:20:00 AM#26

Fair review but not what I would put it at.

 

I dont intend to do any sort of sPvP in this game because in my opinion, "Battleground" style PvP detracts from the world PvP but I disagree with your assessment for two reasons.  First, the maps are small for a reason, it promotes constant attention and quick reaction and secondly, everyone always tells me MMO's are about groups so Solo'ers should take a backseat....well guess what, I'm going to pla ythis card now.  You want to solo PvP then find another game.

 

WvW is amazing, and maybe your server does the cluster**** but at no point in the three BWE's did the groups/zergs I ran with circle the enemy zergs, we met them head on and won our fair share.  As for the "no personal progression after 80 (they copied so much from DAoC but forgot the most important thing: the realm point/rank system)" comment, I sort of agree but I read sometime ago that 2 things will eventually make it into WvW.  A DAoC style dungeon and some sort of Post level cap progression which works in PvP only.  Pretty sure the comments were way back in BWE 1.

  User Deleted
7/26/12 12:27:06 AM#27
Originally posted by Azirek27

GW2 can have 10/10 in all but it will end like any other "new" MMORPG. All threads of this kind compere GW2 mainly with WoW and you all fail to understand the fact that a ratings means nothing vs WOW. A game can have the best graphics in any MMO but at the cost of a powerful machine, WOW runs in almost everything. A game can have an innovative PvP mechanics or environments or require "skill" but WoW PvP is simple and anyone can do PvP and at high level of competition skill is required, so, everyone have a place in WoW PvP. The PvE in WoW is old style but can appeal the people that like the grind, at some degree the people that like history and the people that want to rush have a few ways to level up. Some people said they like to explore and “enjoy” the game at their own pace and do all the game have to offer for their level but most players just want to rush to the end game content because that is what matter for the development of their character (better and cooler gear, cool tittles, cool mounts, etc.) and WoW make all that easy even the hardest content get nerfed and almost all the people that care about PvE can finish and obtain all the rewards at the end. And the most important thing, people want to play what everyone else plays, just a few want to play what they think is the best game for them and them are the community of the “new” MMORPGs and they are just a few in comparison with WoW fan base and players .

GW2 maybe will win the title of “We did better than the others MMORPG that try to compete with WOW” only because it don’t have a monthly subscription from the start. The fans of GW and the people that are really searching something different will play and maybe stay in GW2 but most of the people in this forum are only trying to convince themself that GW2 will be the next big thing since WoW and all of you will be disappointed.

And WoW is dated plus the game is a dying breed for innovation and fun.  WoW hasnt grown new customers since WotLK and even though it has retained alot its still almsot certain the game and its style arnt doing well as evident by the lack of a successful clone.  Not to mention 70% of its player base is in Asia.

  Nilenya

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 335

7/26/12 12:41:22 AM#28

Great post OP!

 

I allways appreciate when people write reviews like this one, because it is obvious you played the game and tried every area, and then played enough to get a pretty thorough idea of what you like and dislike based on actual playtime.

 

Some of the things you dislike I dont have issues with; fx. the downed state. Another of your points, about global cooldown versus the resource of the thief was interesting to me. I played a thief primarely for all beta events, to lvl 48 and last BE to lvl 35, and what is interesting to me, is that alot of my fellow thieves are very unhappy with the fact that we have resource in initiative rather than the cooldowns of the other classes. - The issues resource use brings to thieves is fx. that on traits you have to weigh traits that improve your resource pool and resource regeneration with the traits that strenghten other abilities or your damage over all. - At the same time, when a thief swaps weapons, unlike any other class, cooldowns are not reset, in the sense that our resource bar is not refreshed by swapping weapons, where a warrior or a ranger has a new set of cooldowns with the newly swapped weapon set. - So the resource system has its ups and downs as well. Im not sure everyone really understands that its not as awesome as it looks on paper.

 

as for the heartquests, I think you have a good point there. However I often found that many events overlapped heartquest objectives, and so I found my heart quest almost completed or fully completed by just going for the event objectives. - Similarly if I was hunting with a friend, who had not completed a heartquest which I had already done, I could still find purpose in the area by repeating an event that occured there instead. 

More importantly, while it was not shown in the BE, it is important to understand that later areas do not have heart quests, but are fully event oriented. - That means that progress into the zone, and even dungeon access depends on completing events and progressing by conquering these events into the zone. - This leads me to believe heart quests are mainly there to serve as experience boosters and fillers between events, and perhaps more than anything else, to give you a sense of lore and storytelling as you move through a local area. - All in all, it did not bother me, and I did not feel compelled to complete all heart events, rather I progressed on to a new area if I found myself bored with a certain heart event, despite the completion incentive.

  TheHavok

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2417

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

7/26/12 1:48:19 AM#29

During the last beta I was in a battleground on my ranger.  It was 1v1 (beta had some pvp issues) against a guardian.  I capped pretty much everything and was just waiting to win.  I crossed paths with the guardian and we started duking it out.  My main weapon was a longbow and my secondary weapon was a shortbow.

We duked it out for maybe 40 seconds.  Neither one of us was able to top our healths off during the match (thank god).  I ended up getting 500 points and winning the match right when I had the guardian around 2k health and me sitting at 7k - so i never actually killed her.  But I imagine if I had 10 more seconds, she would have died.

  I ran into a problem I tend to run into a lot with my ranger and that was that after I blew all of my shit , I did not have the sustain damage to actually kill my target (just high burst).  The short bow is really my escape/CC weapon, and while it provides some DPS, it does nothing compared to my Longbow.  Some people may be saying that a solution would be to replace my shortbow with something but I would rather not give up my CC and kiting abilities. Anways..

The guardian is extremely resilient and I might make it my main - if you look at the amount of stability she can get, you will see why she is so hard for a class, like the ranger that focuses on kiting, to kill.  She would stun me, do a ton of damage to me, and I would be laying traps and using my short bow just to escape.Oh and Signet of the wild is bugged.  I was not getting my health regen a lot of the time.

I can appreciate a long, drawn out battle where neither of us are able to do a hard reset and gain max hp again, but, due to smart usage of our cooldowns, neither one of us are able to pull the killing blow.  I think it represents balance - something games like Warhammer and Swtor were severely lacking.

 

Edit: This was...posted in the wrong GW2 thread (whoops) but i'm going to leave it here.  Also, I don't like the downed state in pvp either.

  beerwig

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/11
Posts: 23

7/26/12 2:14:35 AM#30

 

the downed mechanic absolutely ruins pvp for me. It should be pve-only. It reduces the skill cap and makes 1v2, 2v3 impossible to win for the fewer players. Killing someone gives you worry("ok now how do i stomp this guy?") instead of satisfaction. being downed isn't fun.

after a while only XvXs(1v1 2v2 3v3 etc) will take place. if players find themselves outnumbered there is no reason to fight since you have no chance of winning. they will just run and do other things (or wait for more team members to arrive).

 

I completely agree with this.It ruins pvp for me as well.Especially if you are a ranged class.I have to be in melee range to actually get the kill.Extremely retarded.

I also really wish that you could rearrange weapon skills.

 

  Thillian

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/06
Posts: 3221

7/26/12 2:22:52 AM#31
Originally posted by Tinea

"dynamic events - best addition to MMOs in the last 5 years."

I'm sure people will flame you saying that DEs came about because of WAR then Rift (or whatever other game I've missed).  True, GW2 takes them a bit further by responding by the outcome, but at least in BWE3, the population was so high that I rarely failed.. it was the same outcome everytime.   Maybe once the swarm of people have passed affer launch it will be more interesting.

 

As far as I know, Tabula Rasa was released in 2007, and WAR in 2008. Tabula Rasa was first that brough dynamic events, and in fact, they already had consequences when players failed them. The entire base was lost to enemies.

REALITY CHECK

  Nefera

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/12
Posts: 426

7/26/12 2:26:57 AM#32
Originally posted by otinanai123

  cons:

global cooldown - I would prefer a resource system for all classes (not just thief) and no gcd

can't queue skills (obviously you wouldn't need this if there was no gcd. one of those two must be changed)

Sorry if I seem to be nitpicking, but this one caught my eye.

 

There is no global cooldown, and you can queue up the next skill so that it'll fire after your current one has finished.

  davestr1zl

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/11
Posts: 220

7/26/12 3:02:48 AM#33
Originally posted by aesperus

Okay, first off, you STILL haven't answered my question.

"Why, in a SKILL-BASED GAME, should a single player be able to win against 3 equally skilled players?"

This is possible in all kinds of skill-based games. DOTA (and other MOBA's), Counter-Strike (and other FPS'), etc. and there are a number of reasons for why it can occur. Complacency with regards to superior numbers, psychology, consistency, different class/skill combinations (rock/paper/scissors), etc are all contributing factors.

If that same 1v3 scenario was played 100 times - in a skill-based game its highly likely that the group of 3 would win (again, assuming everyone is of equal skill) far more often than not, but there's absolutely no reason that the solo player couldnt win based on superior play than his opponents. Just because players are equally skilled does not mean that they play at the same consistent level as each other.

 

On topic: I actually... pretty much entirely agree with the OP's review. I especially hate the downed mechanic in PVP too.

  GoldenArrow

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1076

7/26/12 3:40:16 AM#34

I liked your points about the PvP.

Overall the game is just a massive zergfest both PvE/PvP.
 Very little skill required from a personal point of view although for best results you need solid team communication.

  Kykyryz-a

Novice Member

Joined: 7/19/10
Posts: 114

7/26/12 4:25:13 AM#35
Originally posted by otinanai123

 

about the cash shop: server transfers and additional characters are too expensive(nobody cares about us altoholics). I like that there are different prices on server transfers depending on how full a server is. 

 

Not gonna comment on article as its way to personal.  

But  Server Transfers are the Cheapest in GW2   for the money lets say your "standart" wow  you will move all your chars not 1.

Character slots maybe  but it is only problem  IF... you NEED 8 fully played chars   sure its expensive because you have way to many free time  and non of them dedicated to earn money. IF they gave you 2 slots  YES it could be a broblem but 5!!!  play 3 chars for story 80lvl or somethg if you have soo much time and  1 pvp oriented with  1lvl switchable or somethg.

  Kykyryz-a

Novice Member

Joined: 7/19/10
Posts: 114

7/26/12 4:28:09 AM#36
Originally posted by davestr1zl
Originally posted by aesperus

Okay, first off, you STILL haven't answered my question.

"Why, in a SKILL-BASED GAME, should a single player be able to win against 3 equally skilled players?"

This is possible in all kinds of skill-based games. DOTA (and other MOBA's), Counter-Strike (and other FPS'), etc. and there are a number of reasons for why it can occur. Complacency with regards to superior numbers, psychology, consistency, different class/skill combinations (rock/paper/scissors), etc are all contributing factors.

If that same 1v3 scenario was played 100 times - in a skill-based game its highly likely that the group of 3 would win (again, assuming everyone is of equal skill) far more often than not, but there's absolutely no reason that the solo player couldnt win based on superior play than his opponents. Just because players are equally skilled does not mean that they play at the same consistent level as each other.

 

On topic: I actually... pretty much entirely agree with the OP's review. I especially hate the downed mechanic in PVP too.

Sorry your scenarion on 1vs3   only will work if their equal skill = 0     If they even bit of Skilled 3 players will win 100% of time as  they will be running in group  and just overpower 1 person  with no chances. 

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 626

7/26/12 4:48:04 AM#37
Originally posted by beerwig

 

the downed mechanic absolutely ruins pvp for me. It should be pve-only. It reduces the skill cap and makes 1v2, 2v3 impossible to win for the fewer players. Killing someone gives you worry("ok now how do i stomp this guy?") instead of satisfaction. being downed isn't fun.

after a while only XvXs(1v1 2v2 3v3 etc) will take place. if players find themselves outnumbered there is no reason to fight since you have no chance of winning. they will just run and do other things (or wait for more team members to arrive).

 

I completely agree with this.It ruins pvp for me as well.Especially if you are a ranged class.I have to be in melee range to actually get the kill.Extremely retarded.

I also really wish that you could rearrange weapon skills.

 

People need to get it through their heads, there are no ranged classes.

If you are going full range thats your choice and in most cases gimping yourself.

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