Originally posted by Rekindle

op is right but there are 10:1 newbs who prefer the new games over the old ones.  Obviously.  MMO developers are not failing at their goal which is to make money.  Do you think any of them give a rat's ass about imersion or true sandbox?

 

They are looking for the ape that will click on the button in the item shop everything else is just sheep's clothing.  The original game makers had profit in mind but they hadn't refined it to a science.

 

All the modern games have MASS APPEAL which means for every 1 of us old timers who know what we're talking about from the old days there are 10 newbs who simply LOVE the way things are unfolding.

 

The problem is not with the games I'm afraid.  1 you got too old, 2 society frankly, is too stupid on the whole.

But if this is true then why do all (western)  AAA games released lately fail?

WAR, Conan, SWTOR, etc. Besides Vanguard there hasn't been an AAA sandbox mmorpg in years.

And looking at the succes of Minecrat and Dayz, people like and want a game where the players can create the content themselves.

Originally posted by darker70

Originally posted by QuicklyScott

It would be great if someone came out with a cheap engine that is easy to manipulate so indie developers can really flourish.  MMOs just take to much damn money to make for anyone with some testicular fortitude to really try to innovate.  In the past year some of the best games I've played have been indie developed.  Minecraft would be an example.  Just look at what people have done with that game.  A successful indie game could really change the genre.

I suggest you check out the Hero website and forget all that crap about the Bioware raped version with which they caused there own downfall,also many people fail to realise Hero gives the whole package from support from Idea Fabrik to server side  management and it is also always updateing and adjusting to new technologies.

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

I want it to continue in the direction it was heading 9 years ago. This isnt some unimaginable dream. It was taking shape in mmos like FFXI, SWG and AC and it has all but vanished. MMOrpgs are barely a shadow of what they once were. We have refined multiplayer action games. That is the definition of an mmorpg these days. Its so bad that people cant even grasp the concept of doing something else in an mmo anymore besides bashing stuff with a sword.

The 3 gameas you just listed, how commercially successful are they compared to other games?

I don't see much music in the top10 sales chart that I like, that doesn't mean the music industry is dead.

This genre might be dead to you but for me, it is more exciting than ever before. :)

Sounds more like it's dead...

...in your heart.

Perhaps this thread is better entitled, This genre is "UNdead"? 

Nowadays mmo's and mmorpg's aside from few very niche and poor production quality or few incredibly specific titles are closer to lobby co-op games and console games than to what mmorpg's originally were.

So lobby co-op multiplayer online games with few basic technical mmo features are alive.

Virtual worlds - what orginally was mmorpg's differentiation and unique feature, also embraced to some degree by early themeparks are atm dead.

Sorry state of affairs.

Originally posted by MumboJumbo

Perhaps this thread is better entitled, This genre is "UNdead"? 

Naw, that's the complaining.  It rises from the grave and shuffles about mindlessly, moaning.

Always makes for a popular topic, anyway.

*ahem* "Dooooooommm--and brains."

I do hope that I'm not the only person amused by the lamenting of Sandbox fanboys?

The genre is going just fine.

We have FFA open world games sitting alongside well built themeparks. We have hybrids that embrace both. The future looks equally bright with games like TES, B&S, Pathfinder, and AA offering yet more choice to the mix.

This lack of diversification is really a myth. It's just lazy fashionable thinking.

I agree with the point about cash shops though... they are not good for the 'game' part of the hobby at all. If anything has the ability to kill the genre in the long term it is this cynical carpet bagging of the hobby in the name of pure greed.

They are really the only issue I have with the direction of the genre as a whole though, aside from an over reliance on PvP as cheap filler content, but then I enjoy both sandbox and themepark play as long as they are done well.

Originally posted by Quirhid

This is why we need a sticky thread from this topic so we don't need to see new threads pop up.

Because you are unable to control yourself from looking at them?

Sticky threads are the worst idea this forum has, totally kills discussion of topics that people like myself wish to discuss.

If you don't like them, don't read and respond to them. 

This genre has drastically changed from what it was previously, no denying that regardless how you slice it.

Whether that is a good or bad thing is of course entirely based on your personal preferences, and from a developer perspective I guess they're happy and making enough money to keep churning the titles out.

We'll not see a return to the days of yore, the masses invaded the space that transformed MMO's from a hobbyist pursuit to a mass market juggernaut.

For better or worse.

Originally posted by Alot

I do hope that I'm not the only person amused by the lamenting of Sandbox fanboys?

Stash some popcorn then because I see in my crysal ball that those threads will keep pooping for years and years. Additionally actually seeing genre changing even more agressively towards lobby, railed gameplay and no virtual world mmorpg's with decent production quality getting released - lamenting and qq'ing will propably increase rather than decerease.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Quirhid

This is why we need a sticky thread from this topic so we don't need to see new threads pop up.

Because you are unable to control yourself from looking at them?

Sticky threads are the worst idea this forum has, totally kills discussion of topics that people like myself wish to discuss.

If you don't like them, don't read and respond to them. 

This genre has drastically changed from what it was previously, no denying that regardless how you slice it.

Whether that is a good or bad thing is of course entirely based on your personal preferences, and from a developer perspective I guess they're happy and making enough money to keep churning the titles out.

We'll not see a return to the days of yore, the masses invaded the space that transformed MMO's from a hobbyist pursuit to a mass market juggernaut.

For better or worse.

Does anything good come from these threads? Frustrated posters come to vent and bash the current breed of games and gamers. There's a reason why you don't "open up" (or complain) in the army: it brings down morale and nobody really gives a fuck what your problem is.

It would be fine if they'd start a thread just now and again (like "come back to Vanguard" or "If you're a guy playing a girl, you're a homo" -threads), but how it is brought up almost everyday, and if not in a new thread then they turn to it in other threads. They have nothing to say they just want wallow in their misery. Same posters over and over - It is really depressing even if I do not agree with them.

I suppose people start these threads for two reasons: 1) Reaffirmation that there is still a decent size chuck of the community that does not like/believe in the direction the genre is going  2)  Hope that a deveoper hears their voices and realize that there is still a market for the type of game (that some) people are hoping for.

I'm pretty sure you can chose to ignore these threads even if they do pop everyday by not clicking them, but for the rest of us we take (small) comfort in knowing we are not alone.

Theres more people playing MMORPGs and money being made in this genre than what was imagined when UO and EQ came out.

That said, despite all this, the heart of MMORPGs, their options in how to play, their gameplay, is rotten to the core.

I find it hilariuos also to hear people comlain about the grind of old school MMORPGs but are fine with doing new "endgame" content that makes you repeat the same activity over, and over, and over, and over again to garner points to unlock something.

If you want something done right the Developer and the publisher need to push the game like TSW was. just by spending an hour playing TSW you will realize they designed that game for a specific crowd. TSW will never have WoW numbers, but they will have a dedicated community which will keep the game afloat.

This needs to be done Sandbox games, if not they wont succeed. Face of Mankind had Penelties for killing someone at random. they had User Player police that could arrest you and place you in prison for a time reletive to the amount of laws you broke. this is a great system. Sadly enough the people who ran the politics generally gave up because people wanted war. i ran a Department of Foriegn Relations, and for the first 4 months of running it, it went well i stopped multiple wars. but when everyday your either being attacked for no reason or your team mates decide to run into a strip mall shooting everything that moves, you lose the ability to keep things under wraps.

as cheesy as it sounds, i would rather people take a test to be able to play the game. Give a person an AK they want to run around shooting it. you tell them not to shoot it unless they have to, they will follow your orders until your out of sight. its just how it is. Eve is lucky enough that people get bored before hitting the actual Sandbox area so most of the casual gamers leave.

actually that may be the solution. PvE areas and Sandbox areas. Have it be a requirement to go though the PvE area to get to the sandbox unless you know what your doing. Because as it stands, in a pure Sandbox world all we get is Unreal Tournament.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Does anything good come from these threads? Frustrated posters come to vent and bash the current breed of games and gamers.

Well, I actually posted a postive reply in the thread about the direction of the genre and how it's ok for me.

But you choose to not encourage a positive discussion and ignored that and instead chose to post your witty 'doom and gloom' pic to bait the moaners.

I guess some folks like to complain about games, and others like to complain about other posters.

If you want a better forum start responding to the type of posts you want to see more of is my advice. If you just give attention to the negatives you are really no better then they.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Quirhid

Does anything good come from these threads? Frustrated posters come to vent and bash the current breed of games and gamers.

 

Well, I actually posted a postive reply in the thread about the direction of the genre and how it's ok for me.

But you choose to not encourage a positive discussion and ignored that and instead chose to post your witty 'doom and gloom' pic to bait the moaners.

I guess some folks like to complain about games, and others like to complain about other posters.

 

If you want a better forum start responding to the type of posts you want to see more of is my advice. If you just give attention to the negatives you are really no better then they.

Hell, I've tried. It doesn't work. And like I've already said it is not contained within these threads. Mods should lock these threads like they do with themepark vs. sandbox threads and refer to one sticky thread where people can vent as much as they want.

This bashing (the games, the players) seems to be partly mod approved because it continues on from thread to thread. Since you enjoy the, in their mind, "failed MMOs" you must be dim-witted or othewise ignorant. The posters regularly do not offer any more explanation. It is ridiculous. Terms like "instant gratification-crowd" and such are similar to stereotypes like "women can't drive", "blondes are stupid", "catholic priests are pedophiles", "americans are fat" etc. and use of such stereotypes should be discouraged.

I demand a comment from the admins. Not too long ago they locked my thread, without comment, in which I included a poll if a dedicated sticky thread for all this venting should be created.

Originally posted by Roenick

 

As a friend said to me today. "Everything has turned into run here, kill big groups of mobs (what happened to single pulls?), run there, kill some more big groups of mobs, run somewhere else, etc. with a bunch of strangers the game finds for you to play with...  I miss spending hours in groups with people you know..."

He has no friends? Play with some RL friends.

Plus, play once with a stranger, the second time is someone you know.

Originally posted by Quirhid

 

Does anything good come from these threads? Frustrated posters come to vent and bash the current breed of games and gamers. There's a reason why you don't "open up" (or complain) in the army: it brings down morale and nobody really gives a fuck what your problem is.

Yes, they are entertaining.

It is not like a thread will change the industry.

Originally posted by QuicklyScott

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Dead?

The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead.

In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE.

It is getting BETTER.

Oh, what terrible problems, those really are crippling modern MMOs.........

Crippling? You call features that players want "crippling"? LOL.

In fact, if it is not for LFR, i won't even come back to WOW. Those are must-have features now.