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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » This genre is dead

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  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

7/28/12 12:24:15 PM#221
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by Garvon3
 

Over half the games listed on the left aren't MMOs. Many of them aren't running anymore. Many more of them are from years ago. As of right now, all the AAA MMORPGs coming out are ONE type of game, the WoW clone. And its been that way for 8 years now. And saying they are the biggest is just laughably wrong. If they were the biggest, they wouldn't be merging servers all over the place in just about all of them.

So why am I not happy? Because the last AAA hardcore MMORPG was made in 2007.

 

Vanguard?

Meh Vanguard did not even had 1/100 chance of not failing.  State the game was released in.  Seriously it was SO bad that there are no words to descirbe.

Performance was atrocious even on decent PC.   Number of exploits, gold sellers, and overall bugs.

Game was like literallly 1 year short on development.

Never ever had any chance.  No matter what kind of design it would be put with. Casual, hardcore, themepark or sandbox or anything else.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

7/28/12 12:40:04 PM#222
Originally posted by Scot

It always makes me laugh when someone points to the money being made and says 'MMO's are not dead.'

In forestry natural forests have been replaced by planted ones. They don't look like the old forests, they don't have the same tree species sometimes. But they still make a lot of money for the landowner.

This has what has happened to MMO's, the old genre is dead; but a new one has been planted by companies wanting to cash in on multiplayer online games. They still call them selves MMORPG's or MMO's. I call them ezMMO's.
 

I call them better games. All genre evolves.

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/28/12 12:53:52 PM#223
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by Garvon3
 

Over half the games listed on the left aren't MMOs. Many of them aren't running anymore. Many more of them are from years ago. As of right now, all the AAA MMORPGs coming out are ONE type of game, the WoW clone. And its been that way for 8 years now. And saying they are the biggest is just laughably wrong. If they were the biggest, they wouldn't be merging servers all over the place in just about all of them.

So why am I not happy? Because the last AAA hardcore MMORPG was made in 2007.

 

Vanguard?

Yup, and SoE botched it.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

7/28/12 1:00:30 PM#224
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by Garvon3
 

Over half the games listed on the left aren't MMOs. Many of them aren't running anymore. Many more of them are from years ago. As of right now, all the AAA MMORPGs coming out are ONE type of game, the WoW clone. And its been that way for 8 years now. And saying they are the biggest is just laughably wrong. If they were the biggest, they wouldn't be merging servers all over the place in just about all of them.

So why am I not happy? Because the last AAA hardcore MMORPG was made in 2007.

 

Vanguard?

Yup, and SoE botched it.


Yes, they do. From what i heard, Vanguard is an big empty world with little to see and do. I don't want to run around in an empty world. If i want that, i will go to the closest national park.

  User Deleted
 
OP  7/28/12 1:38:01 PM#225


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Scot It always makes me laugh when someone points to the money being made and says 'MMO's are not dead.' In forestry natural forests have been replaced by planted ones. They don't look like the old forests, they don't have the same tree species sometimes. But they still make a lot of money for the landowner. This has what has happened to MMO's, the old genre is dead; but a new one has been planted by companies wanting to cash in on multiplayer online games. They still call them selves MMORPG's or MMO's. I call them ezMMO's.  
I call them better games. All genre evolves.


No they dont. They can change for the worse. They can stagnate. I would say mmos are in some kind of purgatory right now. Whats funny is once you get your fill of this shallow style of virtual world, you'll be right there with us, wanting more. Might take a few years. And by then, people will be loving the stuff you're sick of and the tables will have turned.

  dzoni87

Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/08
Posts: 553

7/28/12 2:52:46 PM#226

It is really funny to see people putting hopes in Activizzard and Titan MMO project when at this point we dont even know what it is like. Anyway...

I think that main problem is with that the Developers are way to affraid to try anything different than standard Theme-park gameplay. Hell even ZeniMax didnt want to risk of putting traditional TES gameplay into Elder Scroll Online. On the other side, i understand their approach at some point. People got to spoiled during years of playing MMORPG. They complain about WoW and EQ and how did they bored out of it, when in fact they still want the same old reskinned game that they used to play.

Now here is the thing:

As someone mentioned before on these forums, i put my hat off to DF or MO or maybe even GW2 for instance. Why? At least, they DID tried something different out of following the same road majority of developers did. DF, for example, did try to bring some of traditional Sandbox experiences back to scene (eventhough they needed to release game after at least one year than they did, but that is story for another time). Arenanet, on the other hand, took less risky turn by staying more with Themepark hybrid way. But still, they abandoned the vertical gear progression and put a slightly different tone into leveling mechanics other than standard theme-park ones. Yet many defined it as a game's "foot of Achilles". In the end, it turned out that any approach other than "standard theme-park" is like a going before execution squad. 

Now, dont get me wrong. I would be happy with a sandbox MMORPG with developers who are not rushing to catch midnight train, but majority want something else and couple of people cant change the way developers think its best to make financial success (oh well, maybe they can... with a couple of dynamites and gunpowder, everything can be changed, but more on that on some other forum ).

MMORPG as genre is hardly dead. But it did evolved around other kind of people than the ones that used to play MMOs 10 years ago and that may be sad thing for many.

Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/28/12 3:01:18 PM#227
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by Garvon3
 

Over half the games listed on the left aren't MMOs. Many of them aren't running anymore. Many more of them are from years ago. As of right now, all the AAA MMORPGs coming out are ONE type of game, the WoW clone. And its been that way for 8 years now. And saying they are the biggest is just laughably wrong. If they were the biggest, they wouldn't be merging servers all over the place in just about all of them.

So why am I not happy? Because the last AAA hardcore MMORPG was made in 2007.

 

Vanguard?

Yup, and SoE botched it.


Yes, they do. From what i heard, Vanguard is an big empty world with little to see and do. I don't want to run around in an empty world. If i want that, i will go to the closest national park.

I know you love following me from thread to thread and trying to derail the topic, but stick to things you know about, like LoL.

Vanguard has more content in it than the majority of MMORPGs on the market.

  laokoko

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1927

7/28/12 7:29:53 PM#228

If you can't find a game in the mmorpg genre, try other game genre.  like I can't find any mmorpg interesting now so I went to play Diablo3 or skyrim. 

If video game stop interesting you, I suggest you try to find new hobbies etc. 

  User Deleted
7/28/12 7:31:08 PM#229
Originally posted by dzoni87

 

<snip>

I think that main problem is with that the Developers are way to affraid to try anything different than standard Theme-park gameplay. 

<snip>

 

If any developer ever came to these forums...I wouldn't be surprised if they were afraid to make a MMO at all...period.

 

Every game, every feature, every minute detail is attacked and overanalyzed to death to the point that there is literally no light at the end of the tunnel to look forward to. Any glimmer of hope is quicky attacked and destoyed.  A developer or an investor would have no choice but to think "why bother", we'd be better off investing in facebook games with less risk ...

  marcust

Existentialist

Joined: 12/12/03
Posts: 438

7/28/12 7:57:49 PM#230

Two questions

1. Why dont more people still play UO? Surely its not just the quality of the pixels?

2. Has a more mature form of mass entertainment (the movies) become a paragon of diversity and cerebral excellence, or has it veered towards the lowest (and most profitable) common denominator? Why would a similar form of entertainment mature differently?

 

I loved UO, I'm enjoying TSW, Darkfall felt immersive, the opportunity to widen my view of Tolkien's world was entertaining, the politics of Lineage2 was engaging. WOW was like a half decent comedy, everyone enjoyed it for what it was.

Will someone get it all right and build something that pleases all of the people all of the time, I doubt it.

I will however appreciate the gems that do pop out when I find them and I'll be thankful that I have food, shelter, electricity, a job, a family and the time to look for entertainment when other needs are fulfilled.

 

Playing: Lotro, DOTA2, ESO, Darkfall
Also played and worth mentioning: UO, WoW, Lineage2

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5266

7/29/12 7:54:48 AM#231
You are quite right that quality often gets replaced by a cheap cash in. Lower quality, replacing higher production values is universal in media, art, business, politics, you name it.
 
But that does not mean we have to like it. Or pretend the genre can still be called MMORPG.
 
As for the guy who said we should play some games more to our liking, I did that years ago, but false hope and friends who play on no matter how bad MMO’s get bring us back into the fold. At least for a while, then we realise once more what a easy mode slush they have become.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

7/29/12 10:32:57 AM#232
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by Garvon3
 

Over half the games listed on the left aren't MMOs. Many of them aren't running anymore. Many more of them are from years ago. As of right now, all the AAA MMORPGs coming out are ONE type of game, the WoW clone. And its been that way for 8 years now. And saying they are the biggest is just laughably wrong. If they were the biggest, they wouldn't be merging servers all over the place in just about all of them.

So why am I not happy? Because the last AAA hardcore MMORPG was made in 2007.

 

Vanguard?

Yup, and SoE botched it.


Yes, they do. From what i heard, Vanguard is an big empty world with little to see and do. I don't want to run around in an empty world. If i want that, i will go to the closest national park.

I know you love following me from thread to thread and trying to derail the topic, but stick to things you know about, like LoL.

Vanguard has more content in it than the majority of MMORPGs on the market.

And i thought you were following me around.

Vanguard has content? ... just no one to play with, i guess.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

7/29/12 10:35:39 AM#233
Originally posted by Scot
You are quite right that quality often gets replaced by a cheap cash in. Lower quality, replacing higher production values is universal in media, art, business, politics, you name it.
 
But that does not mean we have to like it. Or pretend the genre can still be called MMORPG.
 
As for the guy who said we should play some games more to our liking, I did that years ago, but false hope and friends who play on no matter how bad MMO’s get bring us back into the fold. At least for a while, then we realise once more what a easy mode slush they have become.

Genre changes all the time. Are you going to call WOW something else now? I highly doubt you can get another name to stick.

"easy mode"? Have you played hard mode raids or hard core inferno Diablo 3? When only less than 2% of the players have run Sunwell, i would not call that easy mode.

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5266

7/30/12 10:45:36 AM#234

Not pointing the finger here at Diablo, not played it, but not sure it is a MMO. As to a new name for what the genre has become I use EZMMO.

It is not easy to  say an old MMO is of one type or another. They all started as MMO's in those days, but WoW bacame the template the modern ezMMO is based on. It has features like a cash shop, which is a good pointer to it having changed into a ezMMO, but as I don't play it, I can't really say.

I have been on Lotro since launch, it is moving in the ezMMO direction but I am not sure a older MMO can ever catch up with recent MMO's which are made ever more solo, ever simpler. We may find that there will always be a gap based purely on MMO age.

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/30/12 10:50:16 AM#235
Originally posted by Scot

Not pointing the finger here at Diablo, not played it, but not sure it is a MMO. As to a new name for what the genre has become I use EZMMO.

It is not easy to  say an old MMO is of one type or another. They all started as MMO's in those days, but WoW bacame the template the modern ezMMO is based on. It has features like a cash shop, which is a good pointer to it having changed into a ezMMO, but as I don't play it, I can't really say.

I have been on Lotro since launch, it is moving in the ezMMO direction but I am not sure a older MMO can ever catch up with recent MMO's which are made ever more solo, ever simpler. We may find that there will always be a gap based purely on MMO age.

LotRO was an EZMMO from the start. Barely an MMO, almost entirely focused on the singelplayer. They got rid of almost all their interested features and replaced them with ones from WoW.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

7/30/12 12:15:05 PM#236
Originally posted by Scot

Not pointing the finger here at Diablo, not played it, but not sure it is a MMO. As to a new name for what the genre has become I use EZMMO.

It is not easy to  say an old MMO is of one type or another. They all started as MMO's in those days, but WoW bacame the template the modern ezMMO is based on. It has features like a cash shop, which is a good pointer to it having changed into a ezMMO, but as I don't play it, I can't really say.

I have been on Lotro since launch, it is moving in the ezMMO direction but I am not sure a older MMO can ever catch up with recent MMO's which are made ever more solo, ever simpler. We may find that there will always be a gap based purely on MMO age.

Diablo 3 is NOT a mmo. However, the play style is close enough for me ... essentially you hang out in a chat channel (or city in MMO) and then form a small group to go to a dungeon adventure.

Modern MMOs don't always have cash shops. My definition is that it has good scripted instanced content and you can form a group easy and drop into a dungeon (or a pvp arena) right away.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5577

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

7/30/12 3:01:05 PM#237
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

I know you love following me from thread to thread and trying to derail the topic, but stick to things you know about, like LoL.

Vanguard has more content in it than the majority of MMORPGs on the market.

Copy-paste quests. Dumb mobs waiting to be killed. Wooptie doo. Rest of us have higher standards.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Valentina

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/28/06
Posts: 1662

7/30/12 3:05:38 PM#238

This genre isn't dead but it is hurting, and trolling, and not supporting games cuz they're not the second coming is what's causing it. Do you think anyone will invest in making these games, and pushing the genre forward if everytime someone tries its met with so much negativity and torn to pieces by trolls? It's gotten so bad that rotten tomatoes had to shut down anonymous reviews, and are now going to heavily moderate peoples reviews of movies by requiring that they be constructive, otherwise wont be approved. This is something that unfortunately needs to take place nowadays on the internet. People ruin potential success by doing what they can to bring each title down in flames because they're miserable themselves. If you want this genre to move forward, than support it. Rome wasnt built in a day, the perfect game isn't going to come out any time soon and never has with any genre. Don't be so unreasonable and maybe more companies will invest in MMO's.

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/30/12 3:11:21 PM#239
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

I know you love following me from thread to thread and trying to derail the topic, but stick to things you know about, like LoL.

Vanguard has more content in it than the majority of MMORPGs on the market.

Copy-paste quests. Dumb mobs waiting to be killed. Wooptie doo. Rest of us have higher standards.

Haha right, sounds like you never played Vanguard.

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/30/12 3:13:38 PM#240
Originally posted by Valentina

This genre isn't dead but it is hurting, and trolling, and not supporting games cuz they're not the second coming is what's causing it. Do you think anyone will invest in making these games, and pushing the genre forward if everytime someone tries its met with so much negativity and torn to pieces by trolls? I

It hasn't been tried in about 5 years now, so I don't know, you tell me.

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