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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » This genre is dead

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  User Deleted
 
OP  7/25/12 4:56:41 PM#1

100% combat oriented online games. Cash shops come standard. Purely developer driven content. Esport is the name of the game for pvp. Socialization has become automatized.

If you were to tell me ten years ago that this is what MMORPGS would be like, I would have never even bothered to get involved.

MMO versions of old console games from a decade ago. Thats what we have right now. The irony is that console games today are actually more open and diverse than these so called mmorpgs.

Its a shame. I have faith in indie devs, as always. But the AAA mmo devs have really led the genre astray as of late. I wonder if it will ever get back on track.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20139

7/25/12 4:58:17 PM#2

Dead?

The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead.

In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE.

It is getting BETTER.

  User Deleted
 
OP  7/25/12 4:59:51 PM#3


Originally posted by nariusseldon
Dead?

The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead.

In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE.

It is getting BETTER.


the genre is dead. not the market. the business of taking old console game concepts into the mmo space is huge. the genre that attempted to make virtual worlds is dead.

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1312

7/25/12 5:04:21 PM#4
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Dead?

The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead.

In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE.

It is getting BETTER.

It is getting worse IMO. Instances (cutting the world into many little pieces), cash shops, getting a small portion of the game for FREE and then finding out you are crippled if you don't pay (not true in a few instances). How about everything being on rails? What happened to exploration? Why are people not as social now that we have all these things to assist us into grouping? Why is everything just handed to us now with a low difficulty rating? I understand the grind sucks, but difficulty and grinding don't have to mean the same thing.

 

Why is it normal to repeat the same damn thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to unlock stuff, and that is your "end game content". Then, when an update comes out, your new end game content is just doing the new thing that came out over and over and over and over and over again to unluck slightly more powerful stuff. Which then just leaves many new players left behind drastically as not as many people want to group up to unlock TIER 1 armour/weps, because all the other players are too busy doing TIER 3 over and over and over and over again.

 

Its no wonder most people are only in a game a few months at a time as opposed to years. Oh well. Things will turn around eventually.

  Gurpslord

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/22/09
Posts: 372

You can't be a hero hiding underneath your bed.

7/25/12 5:13:45 PM#5
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Dead?

The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead.

In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE.

It is getting BETTER.

It is getting worse IMO. Instances (cutting the world into many little pieces), cash shops, getting a small portion of the game for FREE and then finding out you are crippled if you don't pay (not true in a few instances). How about everything being on rails? What happened to exploration? Why are people not as social now that we have all these things to assist us into grouping? Why is everything just handed to us now with a low difficulty rating? I understand the grind sucks, but difficulty and grinding don't have to mean the same thing.

 

Why is it normal to repeat the same damn thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to unlock stuff, and that is your "end game content". Then, when an update comes out, your new end game content is just doing the new thing that came out over and over and over and over and over again to unluck slightly more powerful stuff. Which then just leaves many new players left behind drastically as not as many people want to group up to unlock TIER 1 armour/weps, because all the other players are too busy doing TIER 3 over and over and over and over again.

 

Its no wonder most people are only in a game a few months at a time as opposed to years. Oh well. Things will turn around eventually.

The problem is back in the days of people playing for years at a time in giant virtual worlds there were very few options.  People didn't really have a choice.  If you wanted to play a game online with friends it was take it or leave it.  Things evolved from meridian, to UO, to EQ etc etc etc.  The industry isn't dead, nor is the genre.  It simply changed to suit the people playing it.  Yes, that's right.  The old schoolers are now the minority, they ushered in the genre and made it mainstream, thus a lot more people began paying attention and getting involved and the needs and wants of those consumers eventually out weighed the needs and wants of the die hard originals.

So, there it is.  Things won't turn around, they're ever getting more aggressively inclusive to fit more and more people, meaning that the good old days of sandboxy yore are not likely to rear up too often or even too successfully.

  User Deleted
 
OP  7/25/12 5:22:37 PM#6


Originally posted by Gurpslord

Originally posted by madazz

Originally posted by nariusseldon Dead? The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead. In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE. It is getting BETTER.
It is getting worse IMO. Instances (cutting the world into many little pieces), cash shops, getting a small portion of the game for FREE and then finding out you are crippled if you don't pay (not true in a few instances). How about everything being on rails? What happened to exploration? Why are people not as social now that we have all these things to assist us into grouping? Why is everything just handed to us now with a low difficulty rating? I understand the grind sucks, but difficulty and grinding don't have to mean the same thing.   Why is it normal to repeat the same damn thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to unlock stuff, and that is your "end game content". Then, when an update comes out, your new end game content is just doing the new thing that came out over and over and over and over and over again to unluck slightly more powerful stuff. Which then just leaves many new players left behind drastically as not as many people want to group up to unlock TIER 1 armour/weps, because all the other players are too busy doing TIER 3 over and over and over and over again.   Its no wonder most people are only in a game a few months at a time as opposed to years. Oh well. Things will turn around eventually.
The problem is back in the days of people playing for years at a time in giant virtual worlds there were very few options.  People didn't really have a choice.  If you wanted to play a game online with friends it was take it or leave it.  Things evolved from meridian, to UO, to EQ etc etc etc.  The industry isn't dead, nor is the genre.  It simply changed to suit the people playing it.  Yes, that's right.  The old schoolers are now the minority, they ushered in the genre and made it mainstream, thus a lot more people began paying attention and getting involved and the needs and wants of those consumers eventually out weighed the needs and wants of the die hard originals.

So, there it is.  Things won't turn around, they're ever getting more aggressively inclusive to fit more and more people, meaning that the good old days of sandboxy yore are not likely to rear up too often or even too successfully.


What options are you talking about? The option to kill stuff 100 different ways in 1000 different games? I liked the older options better. Yeah there were less actual games to choose from, but at least each of those games had dozens of different ways to play. MMOs today have 2 maybe 3 ways to play, tops. And no, killing something with a fireball instead of a crossbow is not variety.

  Roenick

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 14

7/25/12 5:26:52 PM#7

The real issue is they are taking the MMO out of MMORPG games. No one talks to each other outside of a few instances or if you're lucky enough to be a in a tight knit guild in a game that still has guilds.

We're all now special snowflakes with our own AWESOME epic quest where we're the hero.

Bring back the world where you are just a spec of dust on the large map. Where you could could travel for 20+ mins and not run into a soul till you got to a heavily populated town. That was immersion. Not run to X spot kill 10 run to Y spot kill 10 move to next level/area with harder kill 10 of quests.

And even though I plan to GW2 i sense even with their new appoach to run to X and kill 10...it's still the same ole same ole.

I think people would pay/subscribe to an "old school" type of game with modern graphics, but what  developer is going to take that risk?

  Clerigo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/01/10
Posts: 405

Healing Over Time since 2004

7/25/12 5:27:02 PM#8
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Dead?

The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead.

In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE.

It is getting BETTER.

Did you really put some time into that response or you did it by heart in the heat of the hour?

I honestly cant say i agree 100% with the OP, but i sure can say you are 100% wrong. How can the last years of mmorpg life make it better in any model or conception? Do you really believe in what you are saying?

If i close my eyes to GW2, a tittle that many gamers are following and expecting to bring some freash air to a genre in a decline path, what other new mmorpg launches you can name that actually brought some solid concept? rift? swtor? what...2..3..4 names? Name them plz...after you name them, open the mmorpg list in this site....start counting them, start reading community feedback....and ask yourself....

"what the heck am i talking about??"

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1312

7/25/12 5:28:55 PM#9
Originally posted by Gurpslord

The problem is back in the days of people playing for years at a time in giant virtual worlds there were very few options.  People didn't really have a choice.  If you wanted to play a game online with friends it was take it or leave it.  Things evolved from meridian, to UO, to EQ etc etc etc.  The industry isn't dead, nor is the genre.  It simply changed to suit the people playing it.  Yes, that's right.  The old schoolers are now the minority, they ushered in the genre and made it mainstream, thus a lot more people began paying attention and getting involved and the needs and wants of those consumers eventually out weighed the needs and wants of the die hard originals.

So, there it is.  Things won't turn around, they're ever getting more aggressively inclusive to fit more and more people, meaning that the good old days of sandboxy yore are not likely to rear up too often or even too successfully.

I disagree. I think things will turn around. While there were few options on which games to choose, there were more options as to what you could do in those games.

 

I don't think the genre/industry is dead. I just think it is stale and we are all to lazy to throw it out and make a new loaf.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20139

7/25/12 5:30:33 PM#10
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon
Dead?

 

The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead.

In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE.

It is getting BETTER.


 

the genre is dead. not the market. the business of taking old console game concepts into the mmo space is huge. the genre that attempted to make virtual worlds is dead.

Yeh. The genre of virtual world is dead. But MMOs are NOT virtual worlds anymore. They are lobby based co-op games .. and this genre is flourishing.

  User Deleted
 
OP  7/25/12 5:32:57 PM#11


Originally posted by Roenick
The real issue is they are taking the MMO out of MMORPG games. No one talks to each other outside of a few instances or if you're lucky enough to be a in a tight knit guild in a game that still has guilds.

We're all now special snowflakes with our own AWESOME epic quest where we're the hero.

Bring back the world where you are just a spec of dust on the large map. Where you could could travel for 20+ mins and not run into a soul till you got to a heavily populated town. That was immersion. Not run to X spot kill 10 run to Y spot kill 10 move to next level/area with harder kill 10 of quests.

And even though I plan to GW2 i sense even with their new appoach to run to X and kill 10...it's still the same ole same ole.

I think people would pay/subscribe to an "old school" type of game with modern graphics, but what  developer is going to take that risk?


Sadly, thats not going to stop until developers let go of their stranglehold on mmo content. What are these guys so afraid of? Are they that threatened by the thought of giving creative tools to the players and letting us build in their precious little world?

  QuicklyScott

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/12
Posts: 448

The opinion of a penguin.

7/25/12 5:36:19 PM#12
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Dead?

The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead.

In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE.

It is getting BETTER.

Oh, what terrible problems, those really are crippling modern MMOs.........

  User Deleted
 
OP  7/25/12 5:37:11 PM#13


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Foomerang  

Originally posted by nariusseldon Dead?   The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead. In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE. It is getting BETTER.
  the genre is dead. not the market. the business of taking old console game concepts into the mmo space is huge. the genre that attempted to make virtual worlds is dead.
Yeh. The genre of virtual world is dead. But MMOs are NOT virtual worlds anymore. They are lobby based co-op games .. and this genre is flourishing.


Jon Peters stated that they are making a virtual world with GW2 (at the pax east 2012 mmorpg.com panel). And looking at what GW2 actually is, thats a load of bs.

  VengeSunsoar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4850

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

7/25/12 5:38:10 PM#14
Originally posted by QuicklyScott
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Dead?

The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead.

In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE.

It is getting BETTER.

Oh, what terrible problems, those really are crippling modern MMOs.........

Well they aren't a problem in modern MMO's because modern MMO's have done away with that.  They were a problem in old MMO's.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  User Deleted
7/25/12 5:41:59 PM#15

A few companies that come to mind that maybe will kickstart the genre once again. CCP  (World of Darkness), Blizzard (Titan) and Undead Labs (Zombie console mmo). These companies will give hope to the genre.

  User Deleted
7/25/12 5:42:58 PM#16

All (ahem) good thing's must come to an end someday. I hope sooner then later. and let free to play die with it.

  User Deleted
7/25/12 5:45:04 PM#17
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by QuicklyScott
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

Oh, what terrible problems, those really are crippling modern MMOs.........

Well they aren't a problem in modern MMO's because modern MMO's have done away with that.  They were a problem in old MMO's.

Replaced by the problems of zero longevity for most titles, with zero community in most titles and trying to coerce e-sport games (which are great) into a genre which now has heavy stat and item progression (not great at all).

 

Yeah tbh, I think having to spend a few minutes to grab a group is a bit less of an issue then what it has been replaced with.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3056

I actually still like MMORPGs

7/25/12 5:45:45 PM#18

With TSW and GW2 this is a great year for MMOs! I just have to find the time to play both...and maybe MOP lol.

  User Deleted
 
OP  7/25/12 5:47:32 PM#19


Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by QuicklyScott

Originally posted by nariusseldon Dead? The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead. In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE. It is getting BETTER.
Oh, what terrible problems, those really are crippling modern MMOs.........
Well they aren't a problem in modern MMO's because modern MMO's have done away with that.  They were a problem in old MMO's.


Giving people instant grouping tools and no need for specific roles is just caving in to the selfish, anti social players that infiltrated the genre.

  toddze

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2203

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

7/25/12 5:50:03 PM#20

To the OP I agree with you, but there is one glimmer of hope. Archeage may deliver on a true MMO of old feel.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

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