Originally posted by Svarcanum
I will probably be done with gw2 after having played like a mad man a month. At least pve wise. Then MoP expansion will launch, the first game to really take end game serious. In my opinion no serious pveer will play gw2 more than casually after the first month (sadly, since the game is great, it just that there's no end game progression on the pve side. And no, I'm not asking for gear grind, but progression)

You'd be wrong in that assumption. There's plenty of end game progression in GW2, just like there is tuns of it in GW1. It's just not raid farming. You have awesome gear skins to find, achievements to attain, things to buy with all the karma you save up, world completion, the 3 big dungeons to do not to mention World vs. World to compete in. There'll be plenty to do at cap, more than most brand new MMOGs, just no raiding or gear grind.

Originally posted by Svarcanum
I will probably be done with gw2 after having played like a mad man a month. At least pve wise. Then MoP expansion will launch, the first game to really take end game serious. In my opinion no serious pveer will play gw2 more than casually after the first month (sadly, since the game is great, it just that there's no end game progression on the pve side. And no, I'm not asking for gear grind, but progression)

Are you familiar with Orr?

mop wont affect gw2 at all!why?because people have been viewing mop for months.yes there will be some content that is fresh ,enough to prevent most fr5om going to gw2 ?hell no!the name here is no monthly ,with the money being tight!the fact most of the stuff will be optional in gw2 is huge!i dont know if it will be a the final nail in wow.but it will be one more nail among the many that were added in the las 12 month!pvp in mop wont be able to hold their player in mop.gw2 will,always did!why?mm if recall arenanet had an optional tournamement ,if you went in paid ,they had good financial incentive for pro to stay in ,i bet soon this will be online too!not nationally .the one they had in gw1 was global.you could fight vs russian  korean etc .this might sound a small feature but trust me seeing a foe speak say korean become scary in a hurry!

anyway it is hard to explain,gw2 might be completly different and have 0 pvp interesting enough or they might grab all!we ll have to wait and see!

Originally posted by Svarcanum
I know about all end game including Orr. Noone has mentioned anything about progression. Where you slowly access new content over time. Something you work for. Gathering outfits or achievements or whatever else is not really for me or anyone I know for that matter. Not saying they don't exist, but they probably land squarely in the casual camp. I'm not one of them. For hardcore pveers wow will still rule supreme. Of that I'm sure..

If by "progression" you mean tiered gear of increasing levels of power then you're right you won't find it here.

Some folks like that treadmill, some folks just want to get off.

Originally posted by Derpybird

Originally posted by Svarcanum
I will probably be done with gw2 after having played like a mad man a month. At least pve wise. Then MoP expansion will launch, the first game to really take end game serious. In my opinion no serious pveer will play gw2 more than casually after the first month (sadly, since the game is great, it just that there's no end game progression on the pve side. And no, I'm not asking for gear grind, but progression)

Are you familiar with Orr?

Not yet, but in the Dream I fought a dragon, and in my sap I feel that is where I will find them in the world of Tyria. One does not simply awaken and set off to fight dragons, however.....

From the description of Orr, it's going to make the so-called "endgame" of any other game to date feel obsolete. Entire maps with hundreds of level 80 DEs....... raid dungeons are smaaaalll compared to that. 

Originally posted by Svarcanum
I know about all end game including Orr. Noone has mentioned anything about progression. Where you slowly access new content over time. Something you work for. Gathering outfits or achievements or whatever else is not really for me or anyone I know for that matter. Not saying they don't exist, but they probably land squarely in the casual camp. I'm not one of them. For hardcore pveers wow will still rule supreme. Of that I'm sure..

If by "Hardcore PvE'ers" you mean "Hardcore Raiders", then yes, absolutely these people will stay with the game that provides that type of content and not the one that makes a point of NOT having that type of content.

Note that I am not referring to gear but to actual content.

From the very beginning we've known that PvE was not going to be a sucessive number of trash and boss pulls, each one required to access the following one (i.e. your definition of progression). We've known since it's conception that GW2 PvE was going to be all about being out in the world with other people and tackling events together (i.e. Dynamic Events) and a number of very high difficulty challenges (i.e. Dungeons).

Didnt wow launch one of the big patches when SWTOR was released as well thinking it was a threat? (Which it was in the beginning people left in droves for swtor)....i dont think WoW will really ever have anything to fear except old age sometime eventually they are either gonna have to overhaul the graphics or let it die.

Originally posted by Anthur

If Blizzard wanted to keep people away from GW2 they would have released it before GW2. Not a month later. If they believe in their expansion. By releasing it a month after GW2 they probably want to profit from those who try GW2 but don't like it.

WoW players will buy MoP anyway, be there a GW2 or not.

Players will try out GW2 since it's the latest game to get their hands on and its B2P so they can always come back, but I gurantee your hardcore players that play games 12+ hours a day will burn through GW2 in a month and head on over to WoW to burn through MoP content as well.

Then they will say where is the content for GW2 and MoP 3 months after the date of GW2 release. 

Welcome to the next generation of mmo players, you can't keep them all happy. 

Originally posted by Fion

Originally posted by Svarcanum
I will probably be done with gw2 after having played like a mad man a month. At least pve wise. Then MoP expansion will launch, the first game to really take end game serious. In my opinion no serious pveer will play gw2 more than casually after the first month (sadly, since the game is great, it just that there's no end game progression on the pve side. And no, I'm not asking for gear grind, but progression)

 

You'd be wrong in that assumption. There's plenty of end game progression in GW2, just like there is tuns of it in GW1. It's just not raid farming. You have awesome gear skins to find, achievements to attain, things to buy with all the karma you save up, world completion, the 3 big dungeons to do not to mention World vs. World to compete in. There'll be plenty to do at cap, more than most brand new MMOGs, just no raiding or gear grind.

For better or worse, none of that would be considered progression in my opinion. He said theres no end-game pve progression, and I would completely agree. End-game pve content? thats another story.

I think it's more "How will the August 25 release of GW2 influence the Pandaren expansion?"

Originally posted by OldManFunk

It won't have any impact on GW2.

 

Nobody who still enjoys WoW and planned to buy the panda expansion was ever going to quit WoW for GW2.

 

Some WoW players will buy GW2 to check it out, many won't because they're happy with WoW and are planning on being panderps.

False, I used to play WoW and was going to buy the expansion.

Though now I don't play and won't buy the expansion and have pre ordered GW2.

Personally I think that there won't be an immediate impact, but say after the first sub mark of WoW you will see a drop in subs, at the three month mark you will see a drop in subs, six month, etc and not all necessarily because of GW2.

Originally posted by Svarcanum
I don't mean raider necessarily. It could be in a 5man setting (I'd actually prefer that). I mean progression. I say it yet again. Like the one you have from 1 to 80, where you constantly gain access to new content . At 80 you have progression without the gear treadmill. Say you need to run a super hard dungeon and gather pieces of a key that gains you access to a even harder dungeon. I don't care anymore iota about rewards, just need to see my name on a leader board for my epeen's sake;). That would be progression. Say it'd take a dedicated group like 10 weeks of clears to get access to the next tier of dungeons. Would love that shit. MMOs are all about progression. If it's also hella fun like gw2 that's a bonus, but without progression only those that play a tiny amount like 2 hours a day will remain. The others will leave for a game that constantly throws new and harder challenges at them.

I'm not 100% sure that I understand how you're defining progression or why you think people might leave after only a month.

GW2 has 8 dungeons, 3 of which are level 80 only, with story and explorable modes.

We have Orr, and honestly I don't know what to expect there but I have high hopes.

There's WvWvW and structured PvP.

There are the open dungeons that can be discovered, or unlocked through certain PvE events (like the Font of Rand)

There's obviously the cosmetic gear treadmill.

There are the epic weapons to unlock.

There's a development team that will be working post launch to add and rotate content in throughout the map.

And then there's the rest of the game between 35 and 80 that we literally know nothing about.

So I'm not sure what progression is missing from GW2 or than the gear progression that usually comes through tiers of raiding? And look, I ran a progression raiding guild in WoW for years, so I get the allure or raiding for loot. And I get that a lot of people love that stuff still. People looking for that might be disappointed in GW2 if they don't find it. But I guess I'm hopeful that the developers have been clever enough to figure out how to keep people playing for months if not years on end.

At the same time, might those progression folks have been sorely let down by WoW since their last content update was back in November of 2011?

I'm bringing this back to the top because today while doing some PvP in WoW, I realized Blizzard was actually way smarter than you could think with this move.

There's something I didn't see mentionned in this thread (or maybe I missed it): before each expansion, Blizzard actually releases a "preparation patch" with new content introducing the new upcoming expansion. That expansion contains introductory content/quests and also most of the new mechanics (new class abilities, new talent trees) of the expansion.

And guess what... 1 month before September 25. is... yeah, you guessed it. You can be sure that pre-patch will come at August 25., or even better, just a few days before.

They actually hope WoW players will be too busy doing their pre-patch to switch to GW2. Smarter than smart.

Will it work... that's another problem... not for me at least =P

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Its a master move from Blizzard, because we all know the release dates of the previous expansions where all much later. They all aimed for the christmass target (except the lich king which did not make the that target)

I'd let 'em stew another month, so you can catch ALL of the WoW players leaving GW2 as they go.  They need enough time to cap out, before they decide to leave, right?

Or maybe Blizzard is banking on the usual "new game" pattern. After the first month, here they come back to us (mwuhahahah)...

I doubt the "which box do I buy oh noes" is a serious concern for anyone who makes more than minimum wage. :shrug: