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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: SWTOR - The 'Singleplayer RPG'

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296 posts found
  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3216

7/25/12 1:01:49 PM#101

Haters gonna hate.

 

For some reason people will find one thing and just harp on it until no end.  If they can't find something, they'll just make it up, like this.  If there's one thing that Bioware did wrong was how the game starts.  There's really no backstory (unless you're a SW geek like me and know the timeline).  The intro cinematics throw hints at what time period it is, but it is never really stated.

Second only to community, Lore is probably the biggest factor in MMOs, whether you like lore or not.  Lore gives you a reason to do things.  In games like Rift, lotro, WoW, FFXI, EQ, DAoC (the most successful MMOs imho), there is alot of lore and backstory to the games.  Whether you like to read the books upon books worth of text or not, you get what you're doing and why you're doing it.

It seems in swtor, other than the class quests there is no lore at all.  Sure other games have the "go kill 10 rats because I told you to!" quests, but  while you're killing those rats, you think about why you have to go kill those 10 rats.  To save someone's cat or something.  In swtor,  people can pick up a blaster and go kill the dang rats themselves.  Not everyone can fight with a sword as easily as shooting stuff.  I might get lynched for saying this, but that is the inherent flaw in any Sci-fi MMO.

 
  mmoguy43

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2354

7/25/12 1:03:04 PM#102

Deeper issue? The driving/paying force for the industry is now the massive collection of gamers many of which are these hyperbole using and quick to unjustly criticize labelers.

Let's build the ultimate MMO 1 feature at a time
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/398555/page/1

"blocked nariusseldon since forever"

  gasperk

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/12
Posts: 63

7/25/12 1:03:21 PM#103
Originally posted by kishe

All I want is MMO with large world with no constraints (invisible walls, loading screens, instances...) 

 

Shouldn't be too much to ask!

EXACTLY :!!!!!!!!

MMO should not be limited so hard. Even some singleplayer games (Elder scrolls and Fallout series... ) are less limited to what you can do then SWtor :S

PS: I think ArcheAge is what you are waiting for =)

  achesoma

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 960

7/25/12 1:18:47 PM#104

I have to agree with Mike.  It's been a stigma for SWTOR since it was first announced by BW.  It's no more a singleplayer RPG than any other AAA since WoW.  Still doesn't make the game any more fun after level 30 but he is correct in pointing out the hypocrisy. 

  User Deleted
7/25/12 1:22:06 PM#105

If a person truly want to enjoy their game, they should probably avoid sites like this. Too many bad seeds.

 

 

  Stuppe

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 58

7/25/12 1:24:14 PM#106

It's a damn shame, I REALLY want to like the game because I adore the universe. But it just isnt fun for me anymore..

  Mizzmo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/11
Posts: 130

7/25/12 1:24:22 PM#107

I don't understand defending this game. It is a single player RPG. Skew all you want, but it is. Notice the MMORPG rating is 8.7 but the players rate it at 7.1? Fishy to me.

  Fdzzaigl

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2159

7/25/12 1:28:29 PM#108

Even if a MMORPG editor explains why it's a ridiculous statement, people will go on "Lalala, I'm not hearing you, lalala, TOR is a singleplayer RPG, lalala."

 

Let me tell you a little story: when I first got into WoW a good 6-7 years ago, I came from EQ2, a game with a lot of powerful (heroic) mobs in certain areas of the game that gave you a lot of XP. In WoW, you also had a ton of "Elite" monsters and quests around the world that required you to group up.

When I had a break with WoW at the end of vanilla and came back in the TBC expansion however, most of the Elite quests and monsters had simply vanished.

 

TOR on the other hand, once again had a large amount of these quests AND had numerous areas patrolled by hard-hitting mobs. In this respect, TOR goes BACK in time to earlier MMO's. Even to the point where people who came over from more recent games complained about how they had to spend time finding people to group with in order to tackle this content.

I spend several levels in TOR simply XPing with strangers in heroic areas on Tatooine / Alderaan / Hoth. To top it off: grouping, even for regular quests, gives you additional XP, unlike what some people in this thread are claiming.

 

If this game is a single player RPG, then so is every freaking AAA mmo released in the past 7 years, possibly even to a greater extend than TOR is today.

Heck, I played all 3 beta weekends of GW2 now (+stress tests) and did FAR less grouping and actually chatting to strangers than I did when initially starting out TOR (flame on).

 

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  nilden

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 993

7/25/12 1:29:14 PM#109

"There’s a larger issue here, though. SW:TOR is just the latest themepark MMO to incur the wrath of MMO players who are really disappointed because they feel games like SW:TOR don’t aspire to what uniquely makes MMOs great: the ability to interact, cooperate, collaborate, or even compete with other players in an online world."

I look at it in a different light. I feel very disappointed because games like SWTOR don't aspire to what uniquely makes MMO's great. Disappointed is the feeling I get because of the fact that SWTOR doesn't apire to what uniquely makes MMO's great. Let's face it focusing on single player story with vo and cutscenes all over the place when you could be focusing on the story of the galaxy and the worlds in it. Bring together players with a greater multiplayer driven world story. You miss the point of being a MMORPG at all, nevermind playing to it's strengths. How could anyone feel anything but disappointment.

 

How to post links.
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  User Deleted
7/25/12 1:33:40 PM#110

I'm willing to bet the loudest critics are also the ones hitting the spacebar from day one to skip the talking scenes.

 

I'm not defending the game, but I did enjoy it for a while.

  Etherignis

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 245

7/25/12 1:38:38 PM#111

I just try out swtor for the first time and im liking it so far, but i do feel the gameplay leans towards single player even though it has mmo play style. Bioware just need too pump more endgame content too keep people busy. Thats one of the biggest complaints i hear so far lacking endgame content.

  xmenty

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/22/10
Posts: 692

7/25/12 1:47:11 PM#112

I think they need to have an open world on all the planets?

Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  User Deleted
7/25/12 1:52:04 PM#113

This Game was doomed the minute they opened the forums up in 2008. Kotor fans demanded that not ONE mechanic or feature from Wow,SWG or any other MMO be in "Their" game. If you even mentioned those games by name, they would flame your thread until it got locked.

So this anonymous bioware employee fake or real, had a point about them making it a single player centric game for the kotor fans. What happened after release was people who had played many MMORPG's and expected TOR to have that standard set of features mechanics, felt "ripped off".

What they found was the MMO portion to be incomplete. Hence why BW started adding features other MMOs had as standard features a few months or more after release.

Hence The exodus and massive drop in subscriptions. So not much that can be done now about it i feel. What is done is done. But what will be interesting is, will they pull a NGE and revamp the game? Or will it go F2P with a pay to win cash shop?

So lets see how this play's out.

  JoeyMMO

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1334

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

7/25/12 1:52:46 PM#114
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

The problem is not in which systems a game uses, but HOW it uses them. The problem with SW:TOR for me was that it had more single-player instanced content than any other MMO I've ever played. And that was mainly due to the need to deliver a coherent personal story.

And because story was a central pillar of the game, it HAD to take you out of the common game world to deliver that story to YOU. But the side-effect of this is that people remember the story parts of the game more than the general play.

They may have only spent 25% of their time ingame in story instances, but that experience is remembered far more clearly than the dozens of hours spent in open world play.

 Jay! The dozens of hours spent running around in corridors, how could we ever forget those? I'm sorry to say that SWTOR feels more like a SPG than any other MMO I've ever played. It just looks like they started making the next KOTOR and then somebody stepped in and said "I know, let's turn this into an MMO and make a ton of money!"

The sections you can not enter this zone as this class, you need to be that class, that is so MMO-like, right? The Story isn't bad mostly, but the running in corridors, it really brought back that feeling from the days I played Jedi Knight except that you had these arrows pointing the way you were supposed to go now. Running into another player didn't change that for some reason. It never felt like a world, something most MMO's are trying to create and something SWTOR failed at in a really big way.

I'll go play some more TOR now to enjoy some really great PvE combat! ;-)

  Lumm

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/09
Posts: 132

7/25/12 1:53:55 PM#115

SWTOR is a really good single player RPG. Back to playing MMO's for me.

  User Deleted
7/25/12 1:58:16 PM#116

Pretty much agree wiuth you forced grouping isn't going to return to MMO's.  With that being said, I dont hate SWTOR for its single player friendly services, hell to be honest it is more group friendly then WoW because every planet has multiple group missions and world bosses to tackle, what I do dislike SWTOR is that its devs are arrogant and simple features that the game should of been released with have taken months to get in game or are still on the design block.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17601

7/25/12 2:05:16 PM#117
Originally posted by rdrakken
Originally posted by MikeB

I'm not upset because people are "slamming my game". Please. I couldn't care less what other people think of something I enjoy, whether it's music, a film, or a videogame.

I simply wanted to use this article to blow up a hyperbolic and ridiculous label that I've seen flying around for some time now and use it as a jump off point to discuss the larger issue here: people are really upset that MMOs like SWTOR don't foster the same social interaction found in MMOs of the past.

 Contradicting much?

You dont care, but you want to write an article to blow up a topic people are using against the game...

Face it, you like the game, you dont like that people dont like the game for the reasons you do.

Bioware attempted to change the genre by creating a hybrid, most people dont like it...time to DEAL WITH REALITY because blind fanboism is killing the game. Allow Bioware to see the concerns of the MAJORITY so they can save the game.

Absolutely no contradiction.

I would suggest reading it agian.

He (like many people) does not care if a person likes a game, doesn't like a game, etc. I know I don't. More power to them for knowing what they like and don't like.

However, when people have no idea what theya re talking about, when they spread misinformation or just downright lie, when they do not have enough experience with the subject and make bold statements that really don't apply, then there needs to be a discussion to clarify what the issues are.

Saying you don't like something is one thing. Saying you dont' like something and your reasons don't even fall close to the mark is something else.

Now, whether or not you buy his proposition, whether or not he has presented it in a way that puts forth a valid argument, is another thing.

So no contradiction.

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

7/25/12 2:14:37 PM#118

almost all of the 2 man group content is (was when I played it) soloable. the 4 man areas aren't but the main problem is you can't level to cap while grouping. the dungeons are also way too easy, thus boring (imo) and not worth doing more than once. especially since you know those dungeons are all there is to do at level cap outside of pvp and dailies.

sure you can group for solo quests but come on .. is that seriously your argument? most of the 2 man areas are soloable. grouping for solo content is about as much fun as chatting. which is fun .. but I don't need an mmo to chat.

the purpose of wanting group content is to have significant challenges to face. challenges you cannot face alone, and challenges which are still challenges beyond having to find other people to group with.

no one really wants forced grouping exactly. what we want is more than 15% of our MMO to be group content. We want as much content that is designed for a group as there is content that is designed for solo play.

Vanguard is the only game on the market I would say even comes close to this.

Vanilla Wow was much more like this though. It didn't force grouping either, but it came as close to doing so as it could without actually doing so. Not to mention there were solo quests in vanilla wow where it was necessary to ask for help. Didn't find one quest on 2 maxed characters that I needed help with. A few 30s as well. Same problem.

Warhammer, being a more pvp game was also better in this way. Sure you could run around the lakes solo .. but .. yea .. good luck with that. There were also a fair number of areas which were difficult enough that it was more efficient and still enjoyable to do them in a group. And obviously they began the trend of public quests. A great way to meet people.

AoC .. i dont even remember AOC to be honest. Only played for the free month.

Rift was definitely a step in the wrong direction again .. but again at least it had the dynamic events to encourage grouping at least. SWTOR does NOTHING to encourage grouping. If anything SWTOR feels like forced soloing. When's the last time you were level < 50, and were actually able to find 4 people to do a quest with. I have to go all the way back to release week to be able to say I was able to find people to group with and that is simply because I already had 1 or 2 friends to group with because we were all around the same level.

SWTOR took what we all felt was becoming a problem, and stabbed us in the face with it catering almost completely to solo play by almost guaranteeing most people will solo the content by adding cutscenes and instanced storylines.

while I don't want to tell anyone how to play, a higher amount of forced grouping is needed. again I am not saying there shouldn't be a way for someone to solo to endgame if they choose, but the game should not cater 85% + of it's content to that, and still call itself an MMO. Because, in a game like SWTOR, it is almost impossible to find a group. because everyone is obliviously soloing their instanced content.

I too played with friends. we manufactured some group content as you suggest .. but that only takes you so far. it's as much fun as watching paint dry. In most cases I can already pull extra mobs and survive solo .. running around in a 4 man and pulling 15 mobs to make it challenging .. just isn't fun after 5 minutes.

I stand by what I and others have said. SWTOR is a single player MMO. Which would be fine except that there are no truly multiplayer mmos anymore. On to GW2 .. where my friends are going .. odds are we will be back here sometime next year talking about the same thing with GW2.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  Tawn47

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/07
Posts: 515

7/25/12 2:15:25 PM#119

>>>“Star Wars: The Old Republic is a singleplayer RPG.”

>>>This statement is simply ridiculous,

When taken literally, yes.  But it isn't meant literally, so who is being ridiculous here? 

This whole article is a strawman.

  TheFirstSin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/09
Posts: 29

7/25/12 2:15:44 PM#120

      the reason people are saying it is a single player rpg, in my opinion, is the lack of cross faction interaction. in this game, we're supposed to be in a war between the empire and the republic, but not once while i was playing the game did i feel like i was in a war at all. there was no interaction with the opposite faction, no quests that pitted each side against one another, no quest areas where both factions had to go. nothing. instead, each faction had their own planets to grind out quests on, which again in my opinion, is borring as f--k.

      sure, if i wanted to feel like i was in a war i could que up for pvp to instantly tp into a battle, but that was it. ok, maybe the quests had you sabotage republic/empire stuff, and what not, but again 0 players of the opposite were involved, making this 'mmo' very single player feeling. Also, yes you can level up to 85 by yourself in WoW,  but you shared the world, one world, with the opposite faction and actually SEE these people. that eliminates the feeling of that youre alone, and there is another faction of players in the game. if SWTOR actually made these planets where players could interact with each other and actually captured the feel of a war, instead of dedicating one broken, pvp world for Max level players, the game MIGHT have retained more of their player base.

 

      Well, thats my rant for the day. :)

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