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ArcheAge

ArcheAge 

General Discussion  » Was the reason ArcheAge went to Russia 1st because we're full of criticism?

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100 posts found
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6115

7/23/12 2:56:21 PM#21
Originally posted by negativf4kk

Russian MMO market more profitable and got more potential. Lineage still got big following. Aion is still P2P.

Western gamers want easy games. Also western mmo market full of new upcoming mmo.

That's a good summary and your point about Russian profitibility makes sense.  As much as Euro and NA gamers want to think we're the epicenter of gaming, I don't think that is true anymore by a long shot.

If we continue to piss all over games coming from other areas we'll continue to be stuck with the same old shit we've been fed for years.  We whine about themeparks and wow clones like a bunch of brainless cretins and then bitch and moan when something different comes along because it's, well, different.

As much as I would like to blame EA, Blizzard, Turbine, and Funcom, we have, as gamers, made the bed we're lying in and our ignorant posturing makes us look silly.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2702

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

7/23/12 2:59:56 PM#22
Originally posted by UWNVME
Originally posted by Ramonski7
 
Yeah keep telling yourself that. I love FFXI and all (hell it's in my sig) but it was not considered a huge success here. It was Japan's only entry to the mmo market and with the flagship name of Final Fantasy. There was no way they would even consider it a failure even when the numbers showed it to be lackluster. I mean even the reviews were bad...

 

  I have no idea where you're getting that information from. FFXI was very succesful, even in the West. Sure, WoW came a year later and would far surpass it, but FFXI still held on to a very strong subscriber base up until around 2007. And as for "bad reviews", where are they? Metacritic and Gamerankings have both the PC and PS2 versions in the 80% range based on reviews from various publications, that's not bad.

I remember things different in the heat of the moment. Alot of people were put off by FFXI's departure from the FF roots. I mean when you have a game IP that easily sells in the millions with each installment, I hardly call 200k subs worldwide across 2 platforms all playing on japanese servers a smash hit. But if you want to read for yourselves check these out here and here. That is coming from the SE camp.

 

Also this review sums up how a lot of US players felt about FFXI. Remember I never said FFXI was a bad game, I loved it and played for a year or so. But when compared to the following it had with the console crowd, it was a major letdown for the masses of general FF fans. Kinda like SWTOR was to KOTOR.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  oupslililolo

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/12
Posts: 28

7/23/12 3:06:28 PM#23
Originally posted by angzt

imo they just want to test their hacking security, and that's where russia clearly is #1, hacking games *G*

thats also a reason lol its indeed true

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2406

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

7/23/12 3:06:50 PM#24
Originally posted by fenistil

ArcheAge has big fan playerbase in Russia.

They have more people in beta, their fansites are big and last but not least Russians don't bitch about "omg I actually have to spend time in this game to achieve something" or "omg I might get killed in this game" or "it is so grindy I cannot level to max level in 2 weeks in ArcheAge".

 

That's are reasons.

 

ArcheAge has a chance in the west, but amount of bitching this game will get from NA & EU playerbase will be astounding.

 

Many people write that they don't want easy-mode or quick conveniant levelling path and similar things, but once they get it it is "gtfo with this grinder Fail" attitude.

 

+ more people in Russia will have knowegedle about what kind of game it is (rememebr AA so no NDA at all).

 

I know people that are talking about how they wait for AA and when they saw combat they said "it is not action combat FAIL!"

when it is known for 2 years and there are thousand of videos on youtube that show that AA has tradicional combat system.

How can you have interest in game for weeks and have not watch few freely conveniently avabile videos about it?

 

I sometimes lose faith in people.

Haha, I am sure that is exactly what it is... You could also look at a map and see where Russia is, then take into account there is no publisher in NA yet, that might be a reason as well. 

It could be aliens, aliens flying down in their spaceships and turning the makers of AA into pod people that only want to deal with non-bitching Russians. Maybe it is ghosts, who knows. 

All I know is thank goodness for all the tin foil hats... WHEW!

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2702

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

7/23/12 3:18:49 PM#25
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Jemcrystal

Was Russia chosen because the people are more receptive and less gripe, bitch, and moan? 

I'm sorry but please name 1 asian based mmo that has released here and done so well in the US that is NOT F2P now?

That qualifier is a bit silly, as the business model change across the industry is due to consumer preference (and I know you'll deny that, but that's ok  ) and has little to do with how the game is faring at this point in time.

I beg to differ. Going from sub to F2P is a fair indication that things are not as good as it once was. I'm not saying the model itself is bad but come on now, which do you prefer? MMOs starting as F2P or games that are structured to take advantage of the F2P model (like STO, CO and DDO) are not what I'm talking about here. They have basically been geared to make the jump from sub to F2P. So if and when those games see player subs drying up, it's a no brainer to make the switch to F2P.

 

But mmos like AoC, LoTRO, L2, Aion and EQ2 have to restructure the entire experience to make supporting a F2P model worthwhile, both for the potential players and the company. This is the main reason it's taking so long for Vanguard to make the jump. Whatever you may believe about each model: Sub or F2P if subs were high enough for any given mmo a company would never consider switching to a F2P model in the first place.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  User Deleted
7/23/12 3:24:40 PM#26

To answer the OP's question...... Its because the dev's only watched the first half of Rocky IV

  ZombieKen

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

7/23/12 3:29:15 PM#27
Originally posted by sumsare

I'd guess it has more to do with publishers than anything else.

 

Does AA have an NA / EU publisher yet?  Last I heard which was months ago, it did not.

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/23/12 4:27:14 PM#28
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by UWNVME
Originally posted by Ramonski7
 
Yeah keep telling yourself that. I love FFXI and all (hell it's in my sig) but it was not considered a huge success here. It was Japan's only entry to the mmo market and with the flagship name of Final Fantasy. There was no way they would even consider it a failure even when the numbers showed it to be lackluster. I mean even the reviews were bad...

 

  I have no idea where you're getting that information from. FFXI was very succesful, even in the West. Sure, WoW came a year later and would far surpass it, but FFXI still held on to a very strong subscriber base up until around 2007. And as for "bad reviews", where are they? Metacritic and Gamerankings have both the PC and PS2 versions in the 80% range based on reviews from various publications, that's not bad.

I remember things different in the heat of the moment. Alot of people were put off by FFXI's departure from the FF roots. I mean when you have a game IP that easily sells in the millions with each installment, I hardly call 200k subs worldwide across 2 platforms all playing on japanese servers a smash hit. But if you want to read for yourselves check these out here and here. That is coming from the SE camp.

I'm not sure you read the pages you linked to.

 

"Its online games segment experienced "unsatisfactory performance of subscription revenues of new online game titles". The company did state that Final Fantasy XI still has "steady performance of subscription revenues", and is the main online performer for Square Enix."

 

FFXI was not a 'new online game title'. It was three years old at the time of the report. A report that clearly states FFXI not only was doing well three years in, but was their main online performer.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/23/12 4:35:27 PM#29
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Jemcrystal

Was Russia chosen because the people are more receptive and less gripe, bitch, and moan? 

I'm sorry but please name 1 asian based mmo that has released here and done so well in the US that is NOT F2P now?

That qualifier is a bit silly, as the business model change across the industry is due to consumer preference (and I know you'll deny that, but that's ok  ) and has little to do with how the game is faring at this point in time.

I beg to differ. Going from sub to F2P is a fair indication that things are not as good as it once was. I'm not saying the model itself is bad but come on now, which do you prefer? MMOs starting as F2P or games that are structured to take advantage of the F2P model (like STO, CO and DDO) are not what I'm talking about here. They have basically been geared to make the jump from sub to F2P. So if and when those games see player subs drying up, it's a no brainer to make the switch to F2P.

Which I prefer is irrelevant. The change is because the majority prefer it. I agree that several games have gone f2p when they were failing, but doesn't the further reinforce that it's what most people prefer. After all, would a company make more money switching to a model that less people want?

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

7/23/12 4:37:49 PM#30
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by fenistil

I'm sorry but please name 1 asian based mmo that has released here and done so well in the US that is NOT F2P now?

FFXI.

 

Yeah keep telling yourself that. I love FFXI and all (hell it's in my sig) but it was not considered a huge success here. It was Japan's only entry to the mmo market and with the flagship name of Final Fantasy. There was no way they would even consider it a failure even when the numbers showed it to be lackluster. I mean even the reviews were bad...

 

 

Besides FFXI falls into the same category as UO, EQ and WoW, old mmos that already had well established player bases before the F2P rave.

Well you have to decide if you ask about "1 asian based mmo that has released here and done so well that it is not f2p" or you ask about "1 asian mmo that was huge success" cause that are two diffrent things.

FFXI did not flop. It still has sizeable population especially if you take into considration that it is P2P and so old.

 

For 'huge success' - name me ONE mmorpg that was 'huge success' in west and that was not WoW please.

Well maybe EQ1 in it's times, but even then it have not dominated market as much as WoW and if EQ1 was huge success then UO should be considred as "reasonably succesful" as well since it had like half of EQ1 playerbase numbers. (250k vs around 450-500k if I remember right).

 

Noone SANE even most enthiustatic developer or publisher should not expect millions of western players playing ArcheAge. That is just not gonna happen.

But what is 'succesful' mmorpg?

If ArchAge population in NA / EU will stabilize at 250 k subs will be conisdred 'not flop'?

Will 300 k be enough as 'succesful'?

Or it have to be 500k?

 

Thing is AA will NEVER be as popular in west as in will be in Korea & China.

 

But I dont think XL Games or western publisher EXPECT that it will.

 

 

 

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/23/12 4:44:40 PM#31
Originally posted by fenistil

But what is 'succesful' mmorpg?

  • Puzzle Pirates
  • Ultima Online
  • Everquest
  • Dark Age of Camelot
  • A Tale in the Desert
  • EVE Online
  • Asheron's Call
  • Vendetta Online

There is no realistic measure by which each one of them was not successful.

- they gained an audience greater than expected

- they generated positive revenue in their early years

- they still generate positive revenue

- they are still around a decade or so after their release

 

Those are just some examples and this post is not stating or inferring that they were the only MMOs to be successful.

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1174

7/23/12 4:45:15 PM#32

The problem is the current generation of mmo players are a bunch of players that were raised on wow and its clones, so anything that actually takes more than 3 days to hit max level they complain about it. Then again I dislike asian grinders because quite frankly they get boring and stale fast, the problem is the devs over there just don't seem to know how to  make a mmo fun. Then again correction: no dev anywhere does anymore, most mmo's are just wow-cloned themeparks that usually fail because other than questing they have nothing else to offer really, its why Swtor is doing so bad and why tsw is going to flop as well. My friend got all the skills he wanted for his build and did all the content in 3-4 days, now he doesn't even login to tsw because there is nothing to do. Now he did play the game a little bit hardcore, but still when you think about it, the reason he ran out of stuff so fast is because there just wasn't much there to begin with, this is the curse of the themepark style mmo, isin;t much to them really.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4736

7/23/12 4:52:44 PM#33

If AA is published in Russia first, is because they found a Pubblisher first, that's as simple as that.

In US and EU, Pubblishers are still looking for the next WOW, didn't you know that?

They have no time for silly Asian games, no matter if that's the next thing.

AA is definetly different from any Asian or Western MMO pubblished so far.

It might work or not.

It is a risk, although players looks like they like the sandboxy design, so Pubblishers could be a bit less shy.

As long as Frogster doesn't touch it, anyone would do (NCSoft it's a good candidate)

  negativf4kk

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 375

7/23/12 5:17:56 PM#34
Originally posted by Siveria

The problem is the current generation of mmo players are a bunch of players that were raised on wow and its clones, so anything that actually takes more than 3 days to hit max level they complain about it. Then again I dislike asian grinders because quite frankly they get boring and stale fast, the problem is the devs over there just don't seem to know how to  make a mmo fun. Then again correction: no dev anywhere does anymore, most mmo's are just wow-cloned themeparks that usually fail because other than questing they have nothing else to offer really, its why Swtor is doing so bad and why tsw is going to flop as well. My friend got all the skills he wanted for his build and did all the content in 3-4 days, now he doesn't even login to tsw because there is nothing to do. Now he did play the game a little bit hardcore, but still when you think about it, the reason he ran out of stuff so fast is because there just wasn't much there to begin with, this is the curse of the themepark style mmo, isin;t much to them really.

you r absolutly right current genneration of mmo player turning mmo in  single player games. They want easy staff, dont want to earn  gear, dont want to play they game. Making mmo in a kind of racing game. aka "First to lvl X ". And quiting after that. 

Devs traced this trent a while ago. Thats why we dont have a good mmo that one can play for years. And even if something like that pops out , one part of western audiens r quick to complain, trying to craft it into another WOW clone, while other part complains that it is a WOW clone.

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  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

7/23/12 7:51:41 PM#35
Originally posted by ste2000

AA is definetly different from any Asian or Western MMO pubblished so far.

It might work or not.

Yes, but not entirelly. 

It seem like heavy modified less Asian Lineage II with some parts borrowed of WoW and Ultima Online. 

Mix and mash betwen teritorial control and bit of asian grind spiced with WoW questing and quite a bit casualized sandbox elements from ultima online.

Well at least from videos ;p   Guess I'll find out once I play.

  Kost

Newshound

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 2025

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7/23/12 8:00:43 PM#36
Originally posted by Phlacc
Originally posted by sumsare

I'd guess it has more to do with publishers than anything else.

 

I'm sure you're right, but it is hard to ignore the amount of bitching and moaning America does.

Euros are no better tbh, constantly crying about being treated unfairly.

It's like buying your son or daughter an ice cream cone and then during the walk home another child sees your child with the cone and decides it isn't fair that he doesn't have one as well.

 

  mcrippins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/01/07
Posts: 1015

7/23/12 8:49:40 PM#37
Originally posted by Scypheroth

this is quite a easy response!

1- North America players want everythign handed to them on a platter. And if they dont get it they bitch.

2- north Americal only wants WoW based gameplay....yup its true!

3-north America hates sandbox games because it actually makes them work! they are the fattest country in the world after all...

4-Would mean players actually have to use there brains to play! Since NA is used to dungeon/instance finders whast the need to leave the city?

 

Oh and Russia is better!

 Well.. at least you're not biased or anything.

  kantseeme

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/07/09
Posts: 739

7/23/12 8:56:20 PM#38
Originally posted by byson123
Originally posted by fenistil

ArcheAge has big fan playerbase in Russia.

They have more people in beta, their fansites are big and last but not least Russians don't bitch about "omg I actually have to spend time in this game to achieve something" or "omg I might get killed in this game" or "it is so grindy I cannot level to max level in 2 weeks in ArcheAge".

 

That's are reasons.

 

ArcheAge has a chance in the west, but amount of bitching this game will get from NA & EU playerbase will be astounding.

 

Many people write that they don't want easy-mode or quick conveniant levelling path and similar things, but once they get it it is "gtfo with this grinder Fail" attitude.

Another reason is that they probably don't feel like dumbing the game down just yet so that the average american can play it. Or censor everything so that the christians won't go to hell etc etc.

I hope they never dumb down the game for NA. If they do i just might have to learn Korean. I hate that shit so much.

  kantseeme

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/07/09
Posts: 739

7/23/12 9:33:02 PM#39
Originally posted by Siveria

The problem is the current generation of mmo players are a bunch of players that were raised on wow and its clones, so anything that actually takes more than 3 days to hit max level they complain about it. Then again I dislike asian grinders because quite frankly they get boring and stale fast, the problem is the devs over there just don't seem to know how to  make a mmo fun. Then again correction: no dev anywhere does anymore, most mmo's are just wow-cloned themeparks that usually fail because other than questing they have nothing else to offer really, its why Swtor is doing so bad and why tsw is going to flop as well. My friend got all the skills he wanted for his build and did all the content in 3-4 days, now he doesn't even login to tsw because there is nothing to do. Now he did play the game a little bit hardcore, but still when you think about it, the reason he ran out of stuff so fast is because there just wasn't much there to begin with, this is the curse of the themepark style mmo, isin;t much to them really.

I Think you may know my friend here

 

This sounds like most of the console i use to play. Devil May Cry, Onimusha, Metal Gear Solid and the like. Play hardcore for a weak and beat the game in a few short hours.

 

I myself believe that its that generation of console gamer that got curious as to what these MMOs were and wanted to get involved. Most MMOers today have never played a true MMO.

 

Most started on WOW so they dont have anything to compare other MMOs to. I Myself started with Ragnarok. That games is as grindie as you can get. Perhaps thats why i like the grind. It was what i was familier with.

 

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

7/23/12 9:59:21 PM#40

The game really doesn't look that good in my opinion. Its probably not coming here anytime soon because so many other games are being released here it would get lost in the flood.

It looks like it has some good features that I would love to see in some other games but the art style and the gameplay are going to hurt it here in NA. I wouldn't doubt that if it does come here it would go down in flames.

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