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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » "There has yet to be a virtual world that even comes close to the number of things you can do in Ultima Online." True or False?

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146 posts found
  User Deleted
7/25/12 9:26:27 AM#121
Originally posted by gestalt11

Why would I play chess in UO with a crappy interface when I can play chess with the same person in a real chess application with a better interface?

 

Just because a feature exists doesn't mean its a good thing.  Implementing chess in UO was a waste of resources.

It wasn't a waste for the players who played chess in UO. They also had chess tournaments, a social activity. That made the game better for it overall, as it was more like a world. There were a lot of things that not everyone used. But it made it a better game anyways, for everyone.

Of course, felling the way you do, you could make a game that's narrowed down to just a few things like gear, levels, and quests....wait, it's been done. Done to death.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19143

7/25/12 1:08:12 PM#122
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by gestalt11

Why would I play chess in UO with a crappy interface when I can play chess with the same person in a real chess application with a better interface?

 

Just because a feature exists doesn't mean its a good thing.  Implementing chess in UO was a waste of resources.

It wasn't a waste for the players who played chess in UO. They also had chess tournaments, a social activity. That made the game better for it overall, as it was more like a world. There were a lot of things that not everyone used. But it made it a better game anyways, for everyone.

Of course, felling the way you do, you could make a game that's narrowed down to just a few things like gear, levels, and quests....wait, it's been done. Done to death.

You have not answered the question. We already have a world (the real one) that has chess torunaments, and all things related to chess done 100x better than that in UO. Why would anyone go for a WORSE chess experience?

Putting lots of mini-games into a MMO makes it a better game? Will it be fun if you can play tetris inside a MMO? I don't think so.

  User Deleted
7/25/12 1:33:25 PM#123
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by gestalt11
 

You have not answered the question. We already have a world (the real one) that has chess torunaments, and all things related to chess done 100x better than that in UO. Why would anyone go for a WORSE chess experience?

Putting lots of mini-games into a MMO makes it a better game? Will it be fun if you can play tetris inside a MMO? I don't think so.

We already have genres of games that offer instanced pvp far superior to that seen in mmorpgs, why would people want to play shitter versions of it in mmorpgs? And yet some do it all the time.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19143

7/25/12 2:47:14 PM#124
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by gestalt11
 

You have not answered the question. We already have a world (the real one) that has chess torunaments, and all things related to chess done 100x better than that in UO. Why would anyone go for a WORSE chess experience?

Putting lots of mini-games into a MMO makes it a better game? Will it be fun if you can play tetris inside a MMO? I don't think so.

We already have genres of games that offer instanced pvp far superior to that seen in mmorpgs, why would people want to play shitter versions of it in mmorpgs? And yet some do it all the time.

Because the combat mechanics is specific to the specific MMO. If i want to play WOW mage mechanics in a MMO, there is no where to do it but in WOW.

Chess, OTOH, has the SAME mechanics anywhere.

There is still no reason to play chess in a MMO, but there is still some reason to play instanced pvp in MMOs .. and in fact, some will say instanced pvp are BETTER in some MMOs than other genre of games. I have yet to see a FPS instanced combat with CC abilities as in many MMOs.

Plus, whether people play instanced pvp is completely irrelevant to whether they play chess .. which is a very different game.

  UOvet

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 510

7/25/12 3:25:42 PM#125
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

UO was unique, and the likes of it will probably never be seen again. Pre-NGE SWG was probably the only mainstream MMO that came vaguely close to UO in terms of freedom and and player creativity.

 

If UO launched today as a fully 3-D MMO with the unrestricted pre-Trammel ruleset, it would probably be instantly invaded by 10,000 members of some PK community that would kill everything that moves 24/7 until the game closed down after 3 months, lol

Well, you can't tell me Catskills was the only server to have anti-pk guilds, and plenty of them.

 

They could simply take the FFA mechanic out and replace it with what they had Guild vs Guild, the only difference would be if unless you are warred with a certain guild they are the only ones who could attack/loot you without any kind of penalty.

 

I mean UO had cartography, lumberjacking, chop fucking wood all day if you want. I remember seeing dedicated people trying to sell scrolls outside the mage shop they scripted. Amazing stuff really if you never experienced it. It just adds so much life to the game.

 

I remember being a noob and getting together a bunch of arrows for our raid on the Orc Fort (Roleplaying guild, Shadowclan, good times)

  CujoSWAoA

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/27/04
Posts: 1848

"Pablo Picasso said art is a lie that tells the truth."

7/25/12 3:30:04 PM#126

SWG came close.

  UOvet

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 510

7/25/12 3:30:09 PM#127
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by gestalt11

Why would I play chess in UO with a crappy interface when I can play chess with the same person in a real chess application with a better interface?

 

Just because a feature exists doesn't mean its a good thing.  Implementing chess in UO was a waste of resources.

It wasn't a waste for the players who played chess in UO. They also had chess tournaments, a social activity. That made the game better for it overall, as it was more like a world. There were a lot of things that not everyone used. But it made it a better game anyways, for everyone.

Of course, felling the way you do, you could make a game that's narrowed down to just a few things like gear, levels, and quests....wait, it's been done. Done to death.

You have not answered the question. We already have a world (the real one) that has chess torunaments, and all things related to chess done 100x better than that in UO. Why would anyone go for a WORSE chess experience?

Putting lots of mini-games into a MMO makes it a better game? Will it be fun if you can play tetris inside a MMO? I don't think so.

Why play chess in an MMO?

 

I dunno, why shoot guns in an FPS? It's so much better in real life.

 

Why have character customisation in an MMO? Go into your closet and change your clothes, it's much more realistic.

/sarcasm

 

I'm sure you grew up on themeparks.

  Kniknax

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/01/05
Posts: 559

7/25/12 3:32:54 PM#128

If anyone has never played UO and wants to see what all the fuss was about (and doesnt mind the old school graphics) then you can still play it, its live and has never stopped. Just go here and sign up for the trial (link on the right) http://www.uoherald.com/

There has been alot of patches and expansions of course over the years, but the main feel of the game is still there.

"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright

  azmundai

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1422

7/25/12 3:34:28 PM#129

vanguard comes close imo, if the concepts of vanilla wow had actually been perpetuated from release instead of being comopletely watered down to oblivion, I think wow would also be close ..

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  rdrakken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 435

7/25/12 3:39:55 PM#130
Originally posted by UOvet

If UO launched today as a fully 3-D MMO with the unrestricted pre-Trammel ruleset, it would probably be instantly invaded by 10,000 members of some PK community that would kill everything that moves 24/7 until the game closed down after 3 months, lol

Well, you can't tell me Catskills was the only server to have anti-pk guilds, and plenty of them.

 Anti-PK guilds did nothing to stop us...LoD and its allies owned our server. And yes, I am a proud member of that guild, we grew so large we have lasted for 15 years with around 300 people that never left and have crossed games keeping our name alive, rarely does our vent channel have less than 50 people logged in.

No amount of anti-pkers can stop it if there is a strong minded PK guild around.

 

BTW as for freedom in a game with a ton of things to do...Asherons Call.

  UOvet

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 510

7/25/12 3:45:00 PM#131
Originally posted by rdrakken
Originally posted by UOvet

If UO launched today as a fully 3-D MMO with the unrestricted pre-Trammel ruleset, it would probably be instantly invaded by 10,000 members of some PK community that would kill everything that moves 24/7 until the game closed down after 3 months, lol

Well, you can't tell me Catskills was the only server to have anti-pk guilds, and plenty of them.

 Anti-PK guilds did nothing to stop us...LoD and its allies owned our server. And yes, I am a proud member of that guild, we grew so large we have lasted for 15 years with around 300 people that never left and have crossed games keeping our name alive, rarely does our vent channel have less than 50 people logged in.

No amount of anti-pkers can stop it if there is a strong minded PK guild around.

 

BTW as for freedom in a game with a ton of things to do...Asherons Call.

I remember some good battles around the Crossroads, which I think was a hot spot for all servers. PKs main advantage was their suprise. Stomping into Deceit or where have you with the sound of 20 unsynced horse tramplings.

 

That shit used to rock my subwoofer lol "DUDGUGUDDUGGUDGUGUDUDGUDUDUDGUDGUDGUUD"

 

I even found "Factions" to be fun for a while. It kind of gave UO a bit of a kick in the ass once I believe Tram was introduced. It's been so long, but things were/started going down hill before/shortly after anyway.

  gestalt11

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6159

7/25/12 3:52:57 PM#132
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by gestalt11

Why would I play chess in UO with a crappy interface when I can play chess with the same person in a real chess application with a better interface?

 

Just because a feature exists doesn't mean its a good thing.  Implementing chess in UO was a waste of resources.

It wasn't a waste for the players who played chess in UO. They also had chess tournaments, a social activity. That made the game better for it overall, as it was more like a world. There were a lot of things that not everyone used. But it made it a better game anyways, for everyone.

Of course, felling the way you do, you could make a game that's narrowed down to just a few things like gear, levels, and quests....wait, it's been done. Done to death.

Come on man.  Its online chess.  Does it really matter what computer program its running in?  I mean really?  Is this what "immersion" has come to?  Completely silly triviality?

There are tons, literally tons, of computer chess games and almost everyone of them does it better than UO did it.  There have been tons of chess games since computer started getting made.  Chess was one of the first online games people made.

Are you seriously trying to say that somehow reinventing the wheel is a good idea because of the 1% of players who actually even care to play chess 1% of them are so obsessive compulsive anal retentive that they must torture themselves with a crappy interface because alt tabbing would blow up their completely inflexible brain?

You could easily play UO and chess simultanteously in two windows.  Its not like the isometric graphics are super absrobing or something.  I mean seriously you actually hurt the case of making games immersive by insisting on things like this.  Immersion should mean something not just taken to some utterly silly extreme.

  UOvet

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 510

7/25/12 3:55:08 PM#133
Originally posted by gestalt11
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by gestalt11

Why would I play chess in UO with a crappy interface when I can play chess with the same person in a real chess application with a better interface?

 

Just because a feature exists doesn't mean its a good thing.  Implementing chess in UO was a waste of resources.

It wasn't a waste for the players who played chess in UO. They also had chess tournaments, a social activity. That made the game better for it overall, as it was more like a world. There were a lot of things that not everyone used. But it made it a better game anyways, for everyone.

Of course, felling the way you do, you could make a game that's narrowed down to just a few things like gear, levels, and quests....wait, it's been done. Done to death.

Come on man.  Its online chess.  Does it really matter what computer program its running in?  I mean really?  Is this what "immersion" has come to?  Completely silly triviality?

There are tons, literally tons, of computer chess games and almost everyone of them does it better than UO did it.  There have been tons of chess games since computer started getting made.  Chess was one of the first online games people made.

Are you seriously trying to say that somehow reinventing the wheel is a good idea because of the 1% of players who actually even care to play chess 1% of them are so obsessive compulsive anal retentive that they must torture themselves with a crappy interface because alt tabbing would blow up their completely inflexible brain?

You could easily play UO and chess simultanteously in two windows.  Its not like the isometric graphics are super absrobing or something.  I mean seriously you actually hurt the case of making games immersive by insisting on things like this.  Immersion should mean something not just taken to some utterly silly extreme.

 

I don't think you get it. You didn't log onto UO to play chess. It was a social thing, you know, that thing lacking in todays MMOs.

 

Guess it was stupid to have your own housing and boats too. Cause you know, I'm playing from my house and could always buy a boat to play real chess on. They also should've taken vendors out and made an auction house and no loot while they were at it.

 

Thing was, that is what made UO great. 

  Talonsin

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 1027

7/25/12 3:56:20 PM#134

Eve is close.  In Eve you can be an explorer and find hidden things, you can be a ship builder or component builder, market trader or even start your own hailing business.  Eve is the only game that is close.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19143

7/25/12 3:57:57 PM#135
Originally posted by UOvet
 

Why play chess in an MMO?

 

I dunno, why shoot guns in an FPS? It's so much better in real life.

 

Why have character customisation in an MMO? Go into your closet and change your clothes, it's much more realistic.

/sarcasm

 

I'm sure you grew up on themeparks.

Nah i started before UO, played UO beta .. and found it a horrible game.

In fact, you tried to be funny but hit the right point unintentionally.

"Why shoot guns in a FPS?" .... precisely because i cannot blow someone's head off in real life. Precisely because i don't have access to machine guns in real life.

Playing chess in a MMO is sad. Playing a FPS .. is fulfulling a fantasy you cannot in real life.

Do you want to go to the movies in MMOs too? Do you want to make your bed in MMOs too?

  Trikke

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/06
Posts: 93

"What we do in life echo''s in eternity"

7/25/12 4:01:23 PM#136

Roblox

  UOvet

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 510

7/25/12 4:03:29 PM#137
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by UOvet
 

Why play chess in an MMO?

 

I dunno, why shoot guns in an FPS? It's so much better in real life.

 

Why have character customisation in an MMO? Go into your closet and change your clothes, it's much more realistic.

/sarcasm

 

I'm sure you grew up on themeparks.

Nah i started before UO, played UO beta .. and found it a horrible game.

In fact, you tried to be funny but hit the right point unintentionally.

"Why shoot guns in a FPS?" .... precisely because i cannot blow someone's head off in real life. Precisely because i don't have access to machine guns in real life.

Playing chess in a MMO is sad. Playing a FPS .. is fulfulling a fantasy you cannot in real life.

Do you want to go to the movies in MMOs too? Do you want to make your bed in MMOs too?

I don't, but only because that isn't fun to me. I still wouldn't scream at people for wanting it in game though like a lot of people seem to do when people ask for sandbox elements in game today.

 

They had housing which you could decorate and manipulate how you wanted. I definetely found that more fun than cleaining my house in reality. Btw, you can blow someones head off, you choose not to. I simply enjoy things that contribute to the game and the social aspect. Plus, I don't think they had beds in UO..atleast not that I remember..otherwise I'm sure they would've let you ;).

 

It's just funny watching people today gush over Guild Wars 2 like it somehow is giving you any kind of freedom. How dissapointed they will be once they figure it out. Just give me a freakin' MMO with depth is all I ask.

  User Deleted
7/25/12 4:39:51 PM#138
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by gestalt11
 

 

Because the combat mechanics is specific to the specific MMO. If i want to play WOW mage mechanics in a MMO, there is no where to do it but in WOW.

Chess, OTOH, has the SAME mechanics anywhere.

There is still no reason to play chess in a MMO, but there is still some reason to play instanced pvp in MMOs .. and in fact, some will say instanced pvp are BETTER in some MMOs than other genre of games. I have yet to see a FPS instanced combat with CC abilities as in many MMOs.

Plus, whether people play instanced pvp is completely irrelevant to whether they play chess .. which is a very different game.

If chess has the same mechanics everywhere (which it does), why not play it in an online world if you happen to fancy it at the time? The "reason" is clearly because some people from time to time find it fun. The players meet up in game and you think it is a better idea to force them both to log out, to log onto another game, as opposed to just having a game right there and then in UO? That makes no sense at all.

 

Justifying instanced pvp in an mmorpg when you can find far superior pvp in other genres by saying "someone might want something game specific". Well there you go, you answered the question on your own. Yes you can play chess in other games, but some people might happen to want to have a game in their online world game with their online persona. Not for me, but for others it sure is the case.

 

I wasn't linking instanced pvp directly with chess, I was demonstrating that people use mechanics in mmorpgs all the time, when they could find superior versions in other genres. FPS games piss all over mmorpgs for e-sport/instanced pvp btw. Looking past the fact that CC's are mainly a pita and are mainly included to work around tab targetting crap, you have heavy itemization and a game which is not 100% focused on pvp combat.

 

This is not a case of adding in a "chess lobby" and trying to attract a chess playerbase. This is a case of a game simply allowing players who fancy it, to organise a game of chess if they want to. People may run ingame events, tournaments, who knows. It's a quirky addition that added something for some and took nothing from others, it is not meant to appeal to Garry fking Kasparov.

  BartDaCat

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/07/04
Posts: 815

Gamer Forums, where "First World Problems" are our specialty!

7/25/12 4:45:16 PM#139
Originally posted by ahumata

Not sure why the list still hasnt been provided. Then again if it had, a lot of people who say "Eve, Perpetuum, this, that" would probably realized they're wrong. I had an active account from 98 to 2008, didnt play much after AoS but still did, so I have no idea what they put in since 2008. More stuff no doubt:

I'm putting this UO list so that people can compare against it and soon find out how short they come on options offered by those other games since UO.

 

In UO, besides killing stuff you could:

- Stealth around picking locked chests in dungeons.

- Herd, Tame, train and sell pets and MOUNTS!

- Go fishing, fish up rares and lost treasure (the bigger stuff involved fighting)

- Grow plants

- Build, decorate and sell houses. That includes creating new decoration elements through optical illusion, which was a UO art in itself.

- Snoop people's backpacks and steal their stuff if you felt so inclined

- Hunt for rares, trade them

- Harvest all kinds of resources (obviously)

- Cook, tinker, make potions, furniture, clothes you name it, whether it was for use, trade or vanity. Crafting is unrivaled at this point.

- Get on your boat, sail around and explore

- Do a lot of social stuff that was in some way or other supported by game mechanics and not just total "let's pretend"

- Move heavy objects around so to create improvised structures

- Craft and enchant and otherwise modify (color, name) magical items with various properties to your liking

- Salvage and scavenge stuff from anywhere. Pick magical reagents from the wild, smelt or otherwise unmake items, etc.

- Build libraries and rune libraries (allows players to travel around the world from a central location)

- Run a shop

- Scam people in a hundred ways

- Trap and lock boxes and untrap and unlock them, which gave a lot of opportunities for stunts and antics

- Make monsters fight for you so you wouldnt have to do it yourself (I know, technically it's fighting)

 

I'm forgetting a lot of stuff, not to mention the creative things people would always end up doing with the game mechanics that were clearly not intended in the first place and gave the game that sense of freedom.

 

Good luck matching that to any game released since.

I made my UO fortune taming, herding, and selling various mounts in town at affordable prices.  I LOVED that I could do that, I was like the KIA of UO.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19143

7/25/12 4:49:38 PM#140
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
 

If chess has the same mechanics everywhere (which it does), why not play it in an online world if you happen to fancy it at the time? The "reason" is clearly because some people from time to time find it fun. The players meet up in game and you think it is a better idea to force them both to log out, to log onto another game, as opposed to just having a game right there and then in UO? That makes no sense at all.

Because it has worse interface? Why do they have to log out? Just alt-tab to yahoo. 

Justifying instanced pvp in an mmorpg when you can find far superior pvp in other genres by saying "someone might want something game specific". Well there you go, you answered the question on your own. Yes you can play chess in other games, but some people might happen to want to have a game in their online world game with their online persona. Not for me, but for others it sure is the case.

Chess is the same game every where. PvP is not. Are you saying WOW mage/rogue/healer group pvp is the same as COD shooting PvP? Even you have better sense than that.

 

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