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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » There is nothing wrong with the cash shop in TSW ..

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171 posts found
  OldManFunk

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/06
Posts: 900

7/19/12 10:27:08 AM#61
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
Originally posted by Istavaan

It is funny how players have been slowly conditioned into accepting a cash shop in a sub based game, if this happened 5 years ago players would be outside the development studio with pitch forks and torches. ah humanity how easily you are manipulated.

Yes, you mean like how Anet forces you to buy GW1 to get HOM rewards and people accept it?

That's not really the same thing since neither GW1 or GW2 have a subscription and Istavaan is specifically talking about subscription based games.

 

HOM rewards have to be earned in game. You can't get HOM rewards for simply purchasing GW1 (which by the way doesn't have a subscription fee). It's more of a way for GW1 players to feel like GW2 is a continuation than bought items since the items have to be earned through play.

 

I think a better example of this is WoW selling mounts in their cash shop.

  Sora2810

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 567

7/19/12 10:30:45 AM#62

Cash shops are like a "Rewarded Donation". If you love the game you play and want to fork over some cash for more development, buy something on it. Otherwise, it's completely optional. Infact, I've been playing in-game and I never saw an Advertisement for the store. It's just there.

Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  Panthien

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/12
Posts: 566

7/19/12 10:33:40 AM#63
Originally posted by Sora2810

Cash shops are like a "Rewarded Donation". If you love the game you play and want to fork over some cash for more development, buy something on it. Otherwise, it's completely optional. Infact, I've been playing in-game and I never saw an Advertisement for the store. It's just there.

I kinna like the fast food excample Udon brought into it. Its kinna like Mc Donalds offering the large version of the happy meal for 1 dollar more.

  User Deleted
7/19/12 10:35:20 AM#64
Originally posted by OldManFunk
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
Originally posted by Istavaan

It is funny how players have been slowly conditioned into accepting a cash shop in a sub based game, if this happened 5 years ago players would be outside the development studio with pitch forks and torches. ah humanity how easily you are manipulated.

Yes, you mean like how Anet forces you to buy GW1 to get HOM rewards and people accept it?

That's not really the same thing since neither GW1 or GW2 have a subscription and Istavaan is specifically talking about subscription based games.

 We're talking about ways devs make money. GW2 as a box price, expansiosn and a cash shop, and even if i give Anet   money in all those forms, i'll still forced to buy another game to have full access. No different

HOM rewards have to be earned in game. You can't get HOM rewards for simply purchasing GW1 (which by the way doesn't have a subscription fee). It's more of a way for GW1 players to feel like GW2 is a continuation than bought items since the items have to be earned through play.

 Thanks, you help my case. So, not only do i have to buy a game i may not want to have stuff in a game i already bought, i have to get good at it and actually beat it?

I think a better example of this is WoW selling mounts in their cash shop.

Yes, cash sops in a P2P game is a way to milk money , just like GW2's HOM from GW1.

  VikingGamer

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1286

The strong are sometimes wrong but the weak are never free.

7/19/12 10:43:36 AM#65

One thing I like about TSW's cash shop is that it is genuinely just cosmetic items. Absolutely nothing in it has any game effecting stats in any way.

Even games like WoW and Rift that only have mounts for sale cannot make that claim. Now, I don't have a problem with mounts. They just move people around faster, but they do effect game play. Even if it is only in a way that is essentially unimportant. I don't even have a problem with shops that sell exp boosts and the like. Really only convenience items in my opinion. But they do impact game play.

Clothing for a fee? big freakin' deal. I would rather have a subscription and a clothing shop than no sub and any other kind of item shop.

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  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

7/19/12 10:46:18 AM#66
Originally posted by VikingGamer

One thing I like about TSW's cash shop is that it is genuinely just cosmetic items. Absolutely nothing in it has any game effecting stats in any way.

Even games like WoW and Rift that only have mounts for sale cannot make that claim. Now, I don't have a problem with mounts. They just move people around faster, but they do effect game play. Even if it is only in a way that is essentially unimportant. I don't even have a problem with shops that sell exp boosts and the like. Really only convenience items in my opinion. But they do impact game play.

Clothing for a fee? big freakin' deal. I would rather have a subscription and a clothing shop than no sub and any other kind of item shop.

I thought wow and rift mounts have the same speed as mounts you can get in-game and also that you could get the mounts in the cs in-game.


  Maitrader

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 431

 
OP  7/19/12 11:14:39 AM#67
Originally posted by Sorrow

Actually game maintance, support staff, even bandwidth have all come way down over the last 10 years if anything subscription prices should be coming down.

 

Sorry but cash shops in a subscription supported game = one thing and one thing only.. a disqusting predatory level of greed that should never be condoned.

 

Luckily for TSW the game will be F2P within 6 months and the all the lifetimes will be getting free cashshop money each month.

your absolutely delusional if you really think it willbe F2P in 6 months.. actually in 6 months they will probably open a crapload of new servers to accomadate the exodus from Tyria.

  Maitrader

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 431

 
OP  7/19/12 11:14:39 AM#68
Originally posted by Sorrow

Actually game maintance, support staff, even bandwidth have all come way down over the last 10 years if anything subscription prices should be coming down.

 

Sorry but cash shops in a subscription supported game = one thing and one thing only.. a disqusting predatory level of greed that should never be condoned.

 

Luckily for TSW the game will be F2P within 6 months and the all the lifetimes will be getting free cashshop money each month.

your absolutely delusional if you really think it willbe F2P in 6 months.. actually in 6 months they will probably open a crapload of new servers to accomodate the exodus from Tyria.

  Gargola

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/05
Posts: 356

7/19/12 11:20:39 AM#69

Aside from at the moment not being THAT much stuff to actually buy, there's no problem at all with TSW's cash shop.  You can get pretty cool looks with the ingame clothing vendors, so anything you might get from the cash shop is entirely unneded, people buying from it (and there's lots of them, as it's easy to see ingame) does it just cause they want.

 

TSW's cash shop is a cash shop done right, in my opinion, where there's absolutely no need for anyone to buy from them, but there migth be some appeal, for both the ones wanting to give some extra, those wanting to show off some more or those that really, really like cosmetic items.

 

Multi-month subs currently come with a number of FC points for purchase in the shop, so you can even grab a thing or two from there without chipping in any extra money.

  Kyleran

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Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19497

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

7/19/12 11:20:49 AM#70
Originally posted by VikingGamer

One thing I like about TSW's cash shop is that it is genuinely just cosmetic items. Absolutely nothing in it has any game effecting stats in any way.

Even games like WoW and Rift that only have mounts for sale cannot make that claim. Now, I don't have a problem with mounts. They just move people around faster, but they do effect game play. Even if it is only in a way that is essentially unimportant. I don't even have a problem with shops that sell exp boosts and the like. Really only convenience items in my opinion. But they do impact game play.

Clothing for a fee? big freakin' deal. I would rather have a subscription and a clothing shop than no sub and any other kind of item shop.

If a player can reasonable obtain the items sold in the cash shop by playing the game itself, then there's probably no issue. 

But when there is content in the cash shop that can only be obtained by purchasing it, even if only cosmetic, it crosses the line for some folks who expect to experience the full content the title has from their base sub fee.

Not saying they are right in those expectations, but I understand why they feel any cash shop, even this one is unnacceptable in their eyes.  (considering the game has a sub fee, they'll be more forgiving of GW2)

 

 

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  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

7/19/12 11:21:44 AM#71
Originally posted by Maitrader
Originally posted by Sorrow

Actually game maintance, support staff, even bandwidth have all come way down over the last 10 years if anything subscription prices should be coming down.

 

Sorry but cash shops in a subscription supported game = one thing and one thing only.. a disqusting predatory level of greed that should never be condoned.

 

Luckily for TSW the game will be F2P within 6 months and the all the lifetimes will be getting free cashshop money each month.

your absolutely delusional if you really think it willbe F2P in 6 months.. actually in 6 months they will probably open a crapload of new servers to accomadate the exodus from Tyria.

I actually think its cs was a smart idea business wise although its horrible morals. They are getting ready for the inevitable f2p conversion. I think 6 months is too soon and Im not sure that many players will be lost by TSW because of GW2, now the other way around haha thats far fetched. Anyone who would have wanted to pay a sub for TSW would have done it already.


  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

7/19/12 11:23:45 AM#72
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by VikingGamer

One thing I like about TSW's cash shop is that it is genuinely just cosmetic items. Absolutely nothing in it has any game effecting stats in any way.

Even games like WoW and Rift that only have mounts for sale cannot make that claim. Now, I don't have a problem with mounts. They just move people around faster, but they do effect game play. Even if it is only in a way that is essentially unimportant. I don't even have a problem with shops that sell exp boosts and the like. Really only convenience items in my opinion. But they do impact game play.

Clothing for a fee? big freakin' deal. I would rather have a subscription and a clothing shop than no sub and any other kind of item shop.

If a player can reasonable obtain the items sold in the cash shop by playing the game itself, then there's probably no issue. 

But when there is content in the cash shop that can only be obtained by purchasing it, even if only cosmetic, it crosses the line for some folks who expect to experience the full content the title has from their base sub fee.

Not saying they are right in those expectations, but I understand why they feel any cash shop, even this one is unnacceptable in their eyes.  (considering the game has a sub fee, they'll be more forgiving of GW2)

 

 

THAT right there is the core of the problem, well put 


  Maitrader

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 431

 
OP  7/19/12 11:25:58 AM#73
Originally posted by Istavaan

It is funny how players have been slowly conditioned into accepting a cash shop in a sub based game, if this happened 5 years ago players would be outside the development studio with pitch forks and torches. ah humanity how easily you are manipulated.

I am a business major .... graduated top 5% of my class... and I am being manipulated? lol no I understand operating costs and overhead. Oh, and I am not so simple minded as to think that since a cash shop is in the game, that I HAVE to use it.. I never planned on putting any money into the cash shop.. does that take away from my game-play? well I guess if you wanted to buy the furry bunny slippers, a poncho, and some bellbottoms with a title "The Pwned" or "The Ninja", thenI guess maybe so. lol, in the end, FC has to make money... Just because GW2 free, doesn't mean its the same type of game, and I guarantee that in the first month of it going live, they will be offering MUCH MORE non-vanity items than any game on the market. Money is money, and if thereis people that want to buy a fucking poncho, let them buy the poncho. If people want to buy 1000x treasure keys in the GW2 shop, then let it be so.

  Pyuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 666

7/19/12 11:30:32 AM#74
Originally posted by mehoron
Originally posted by DaezAster

I'm not against a cash shop but tsw did keep a lot out for it. During beta I was able to by gloves and shades in game but those were removed and are now only in the cash shop. Besides the deck clothing the only clothing you can buy is the bland stuff available when you create your character. I am still rocking the same stuff from cc under my mercenary set which I have just settled to stick with do to lack of options. With armor being removed from the game which usually keeps your character evolving over the course of a game the clothing options are more important and less available than even some ftp games I've played. 

Gloves are still in the game, as are sunglasses. I have them on my player right now....so this is kinda false. There's TONS of clothing and several clothing vendors, so no....you're not just stuck with the stuff your character has.....

 

Have you never gone to london?!

 

Edit:

There are 9 slots on your character for gear that has stats. So I dunno where that come from either.

Yep, go to the clothing store in London and you have a bunch of clothing options to buy with in-game currency. I bought a rockin pair of mountain shades, a flak jacket and padded military-styled pants.

I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  Preacher26

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Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 377

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7/19/12 11:37:17 AM#75

The problem is not with the cash shop or the items available.

The problem is TSWs business model.

 

Box Sale - Subscription Fee - Cash Shop

 

If people are paying a sub fee they expect all content to be available to them. For example... the clothing in the cash shop should be available in game for in-game currency. This is of coarse my personal opinion. I always said I would never support this business model because I want it to fail so future developers dont use it.

I prefer sub games because I hate cash shops... just a personal preference... having both is just plain greedy. I expect access to all of the content when I buy a game and am paying an active sub... I dont expect companies to create special goodies or withold certain items and expect more money for them.

 

But just my opinion. People dont dislike the shop.. they dislike a company that feels this business model is acceptable. When GW2 launches I wont look back, even though I really like the game.

  Gargola

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/05
Posts: 356

7/19/12 11:47:34 AM#76
Originally posted by Preacher26

The problem is not with the cash shop or the items available.

The problem is TSWs business model.

 

Box Sale - Subscription Fee - Cash Shop

 

If people are paying a sub fee they expect all content to be available to them. For example... the clothing in the cash shop should be available in game for in-game currency. This is of coarse my personal opinion. I always said I would never support this business model because I want it to fail so future developers dont use it.

I prefer sub games because I hate cash shops... just a personal preference... having both is just plain greedy. I expect access to all of the content when I buy a game and am paying an active sub... I dont expect companies to create special goodies or withold certain items and expect more money for them.

 

But just my opinion. People dont dislike the shop.. they dislike a company that feels this business model is acceptable. When GW2 launches I wont look back, even though I really like the game.

And that't their prerrogative, however, the item shop, as implemented by FC both doesn't force people to use it (in fact, subscribers get FC points to use there with multi-month subs, so they can get clothes from ther with no additional money) and allow for those that are willing to buy more completley cosmetic stuff to do so.

 

"For a 3 month gametime purchase you receive 720 bonus points (value $6)
For a 6 month gametime purchase you receive 2160 bonus points (value $18)
For a 12 month gametime purchase you receive 5760 bonus points worth $48 in the Item Store!"

 

So, yes, subscribers can get Cash SHop items without  having to put additional money.  If they sub for multiple months, which in itself its at a reduced cost, compared to a month by month sub.

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

7/19/12 11:51:57 AM#77
Originally posted by Gargola
Originally posted by Preacher26

The problem is not with the cash shop or the items available.

The problem is TSWs business model.

 

Box Sale - Subscription Fee - Cash Shop

 

If people are paying a sub fee they expect all content to be available to them. For example... the clothing in the cash shop should be available in game for in-game currency. This is of coarse my personal opinion. I always said I would never support this business model because I want it to fail so future developers dont use it.

I prefer sub games because I hate cash shops... just a personal preference... having both is just plain greedy. I expect access to all of the content when I buy a game and am paying an active sub... I dont expect companies to create special goodies or withold certain items and expect more money for them.

 

But just my opinion. People dont dislike the shop.. they dislike a company that feels this business model is acceptable. When GW2 launches I wont look back, even though I really like the game.

And that't their prerrogative, however, the item shop, as implemented by FC both doesn't force people to use it (in fact, subscribers get FC points to use there with multi-month subs, so they can get clothes from ther with no additional money) and allow for those that are willing to buy more completley cosmetic stuff to do so.

 

"For a 3 month gametime purchase you receive 720 bonus points (value $6)
For a 6 month gametime purchase you receive 2160 bonus points (value $18)
For a 12 month gametime purchase you receive 5760 bonus points worth $48 in the Item Store!"

 

So, yes, subscribers can get Cash SHop items without  having to put additional money.  If they sub for multiple months, which in itself its at a reduced cost, compared to a month by month sub.

Right, cause buying multiple month subs is the same thing as going on a month by month basis....

I can barely stand having to pay for a month when I might not even play the whole month let alone 3,6,12 or a lifetime sub....


  Panthien

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/12
Posts: 566

7/19/12 11:53:13 AM#78
Originally posted by Gargola
Originally posted by Preacher26

The problem is not with the cash shop or the items available.

The problem is TSWs business model.

 

Box Sale - Subscription Fee - Cash Shop

 

If people are paying a sub fee they expect all content to be available to them. For example... the clothing in the cash shop should be available in game for in-game currency. This is of coarse my personal opinion. I always said I would never support this business model because I want it to fail so future developers dont use it.

I prefer sub games because I hate cash shops... just a personal preference... having both is just plain greedy. I expect access to all of the content when I buy a game and am paying an active sub... I dont expect companies to create special goodies or withold certain items and expect more money for them.

 

But just my opinion. People dont dislike the shop.. they dislike a company that feels this business model is acceptable. When GW2 launches I wont look back, even though I really like the game.

And that't their prerrogative, however, the item shop, as implemented by FC both doesn't force people to use it (in fact, subscribers get FC points to use there with multi-month subs, so they can get clothes from ther with no additional money) and allow for those that are willing to buy more completley cosmetic stuff to do so.

 

"For a 3 month gametime purchase you receive 720 bonus points (value $6)
For a 6 month gametime purchase you receive 2160 bonus points (value $18)
For a 12 month gametime purchase you receive 5760 bonus points worth $48 in the Item Store!"

 

So, yes, subscribers can get Cash SHop items without  having to put additional money.  If they sub for multiple months, which in itself its at a reduced cost, compared to a month by month sub.

I understand where he is coming from even though he is flat out wrong.

Its like going to mc donalds and think you dont want to pay that extra buck to get the extra large version, because you already payed for the meal.

Its like thinking you shouldnt have to pay extra to get dental care in your health ensurance since you already pay premium.

Its like saying you dont have to pay extra for that sun roof, soft leather chairs, and luxurious radio when you buy a car when you already payed for the basic model.

Theres an actual additional team working on designing items for the store, these would not have entered the game otherwise. Without the itemstore, just like its already done right now.. only a hand few new models would enter the game with game updates over time, like when a new pvp season, dungeion or raid is added.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3171

7/19/12 12:10:42 PM#79
Originally posted by Kuppa
 

Right, cause buying multiple month subs is the same thing as going on a month by month basis....

I can barely stand having to pay for a month when I might not even play the whole month let alone 3,6,12 or a lifetime sub....

I'd hate to visit an "all you can eat for $15" buffet restaurant with you, lol

 

  OldManFunk

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/06
Posts: 900

7/19/12 12:18:27 PM#80
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
Originally posted by OldManFunk
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
Originally posted by Istavaan

It is funny how players have been slowly conditioned into accepting a cash shop in a sub based game, if this happened 5 years ago players would be outside the development studio with pitch forks and torches. ah humanity how easily you are manipulated.

Yes, you mean like how Anet forces you to buy GW1 to get HOM rewards and people accept it?

That's not really the same thing since neither GW1 or GW2 have a subscription and Istavaan is specifically talking about subscription based games.

 We're talking about ways devs make money. GW2 as a box price, expansiosn and a cash shop, and even if i give Anet   money in all those forms, i'll still forced to buy another game to have full access. No different

HOM rewards have to be earned in game. You can't get HOM rewards for simply purchasing GW1 (which by the way doesn't have a subscription fee). It's more of a way for GW1 players to feel like GW2 is a continuation than bought items since the items have to be earned through play.

 Thanks, you help my case. So, not only do i have to buy a game i may not want to have stuff in a game i already bought, i have to get good at it and actually beat it?

I think a better example of this is WoW selling mounts in their cash shop.

Yes, cash sops in a P2P game is a way to milk money , just like GW2's HOM from GW1.

Well, they are businesses and businesses need to make money off something. I just wanted to point out that like it or hate it WoW would make a better comparison than Guild Wars since Guild Wars doesn't charge a subscription fee to play their game but both WoW and TSW do. But hey, if you're determined to make this into TSW vs GW then go right ahead, I won't stop you.

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