I'm not talking about a mix of the two. I mean just straight up, throw it all in there. Have all the sandbox elements you would expect, but ALSO have all the "rides" you can go on.

So you could go create your own adventures but then the townsfolk might also have some quests for you if you have been lacking creativity.

we had that.

it was called SWG.

But SWTOR killed it.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

it was called SWG.

But SWTOR killed it.

You wish.

LA/SOE killed it by frankensteining it (while it was in perfect health, mind you).

Originally posted by Fendel84M

I'm not talking about a mix of the two. I mean just straight up, throw it all in there. Have all the sandbox elements you would expect, but ALSO have all the "rides" you can go on.

So you could go create your own adventures but then the townsfolk might also have some quests for you if you have been lacking creativity.

thats just a sandbox game.

theres nothing in the rules of sandbox games that disallow players from running dungeons/quests/raids or any other typical themepark content.

my personal opinion is that we don't see this because why build the whole online world when you can just build one of the themepark rides in it and turn a profit?  why not just focus on that one bit of content that most people seem to think is all they want and just sell that alone.

Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

Originally posted by Fendel84M

I'm not talking about a mix of the two. I mean just straight up, throw it all in there. Have all the sandbox elements you would expect, but ALSO have all the "rides" you can go on.

So you could go create your own adventures but then the townsfolk might also have some quests for you if you have been lacking creativity.

 

thats just a sandbox game.

theres nothing in the rules of sandbox games that disallow players from running dungeons/quests/raids or any other typical themepark content.

my personal opinion is that we don't see this because why build the whole online world when you can just build one of the themepark rides in it and turn a profit?  why not just focus on that one bit of content that most people seem to think is all they want and just sell that alone.

Well I've noticed a big problem myself seems to be that the focus is on the supposed "end game". Everything before that is just filler. Tera is the worst offender, I mean my god the questing is just abyssmal and so pointless the mobs just placed in clumps roaming about waiting to be slaughtered.

In my opinion it is the players fault though. Why develope interesting quests and content when players are just going to gloss by it to get to the supposed "good stuff" at the end and then complain there is nothing to do. You always hear it, "wait till there's no end game, wait till theres no end game".

Good RPGers are usually able to find something to do.

Add in player creation toolsand u have. The One.

Core sandbox players would call any game with themepark aspects...a themepark game.

Sandbox to them means its ALL open, no rails, no guides...no rides...no stories...no quests. And that is why there are not many sandbox games, the playerbase for those types of games does not compare to themepark players. If only more sandboxers would be willing to compromise we could end up with a game like SWG that actually had a team that can make content for a game instead of people like Koster, the destroyer of MMOs.

I want Wurm online with GW2 gameplay

Originally posted by rdrakken

Core sandbox players would call any game with themepark aspects...a themepark game.

Sandbox to them means its ALL open, no rails, no guides...no rides...no stories...no quests. And that is why there are not many sandbox games, the playerbase for those types of games does not compare to themepark players. If only more sandboxers would be willing to compromise we could end up with a game like SWG that actually had a team that can make content for a game instead of people like Koster, the destroyer of MMOs.

you have a very good point there.

it is a shame some define sandbox gaming by "what it cannot have" rather than by "what it should offer."

it really betrays the whole spirit of the sandbox.

Originally posted by rdrakken

Core sandbox players would call any game with themepark aspects...a themepark game.

Sandbox to them means its ALL open, no rails, no guides...no rides...no stories...no quests. And that is why there are not many sandbox games, the playerbase for those types of games does not compare to themepark players. If only more sandboxers would be willing to compromise we could end up with a game like SWG that actually had a team that can make content for a game instead of people like Koster, the destroyer of MMOs.

This is very true....

Regardless of the small, always whining, never happy with any game they cant to the top of litterbox community a AAA themebox done right would be a revolution many of us as gamers of most genres would love to see and would support..

Unfortunately it will never happen because of the yank me gank me litterbox bunch..

Vast empty worlds of overbearing player ruled content alone is just not very appealing to most gamers..

Eve is the only close to perfect sandbox in existance but it is insanely tough coming in new unless you are buddies with one of the few ruling corporations leaders and many of litterbox kittys that fail rant whine and bail..

I do not believe "sandbox" vs "themepark" is the argument, but just used to try to convince players they do not need freedom to play their own characters.

The REAL issue is "free range" vs "on-rails".  And the answer is to get rid of the "rails" and stop with all the hand-holding; a MMORPG should not play like an 80 level tutorial.

Originally posted by Fendel84M

I'm not talking about a mix of the two. I mean just straight up, throw it all in there. Have all the sandbox elements you would expect, but ALSO have all the "rides" you can go on.

So you could go create your own adventures but then the townsfolk might also have some quests for you if you have been lacking creativity.

Quests or not does not define whether a game is a themepark or a sandbox. Freedom does. A game that has the features of a sandbox and offers quests (or rather missions) is still a sandbox.

It's very hard (to almost impossible) to have both types of gameplay in one MMORPG:

• You cannot design a game that is both carefully guided (for accesibility, for convenience, for instant fun and rewards) and offers the player the freedom to do as he wishes.
• You cannot design a game that has both a loot-driven gear economy and a player-run market economy,
• You cannot design a game that has both end-game dungeon drops and where crafters make all the gear.
• You cannot design a game that is both combat-centric and not combat-centric.
• You cannot design a game where the devs create the "personal" story and the players make their own.

Archeage...............

Originally posted by Larsa

 

• You cannot design a game that is both carefully guided (for accesibility, for convenience, for instant fun and rewards) and offers the player the freedom to do as he wishes.
• You cannot design a game that has both a loot-driven gear economy and a player-run market economy,
• You cannot design a game that has both end-game dungeon drops and where crafters make all the gear.
• You cannot design a game that is both combat-centric and not combat-centric.
• You cannot design a game where the devs create the "personal" story and the players make their own.

 

why not? most of that seems perfectly reasonable in some form or fashion, assuming one doesn't simply copy complete systems from other games.

perhaps i misunderstand you, but why exactly can a dev not create a story and at the same time leave it optional and allow the players to instead or in tandem create their own?  

why could i not design a game where loot and crafting were intertwined along with a player driven economy?  eve online has one of the most robust player driven economies of any game ever created and one can make their fortune looting NPCs quite easily there. 

i don't want to go down the list addressing each point, perhaps this is enough for you to see why these statements seem unreasonable and if you have interest -- clarify my misunderstanding of your point.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

we had that.

it was called SWG.

But SWTOR killed it.

True. SWG was taken offline the exact same date SWTOR was launched.

There were several themeparks in SWG, alas long questlines. I see no problems with incorporating themeparks in a sandbox, since the sandbox concept allows just about any content to be added.

Originally posted by Atheenah

Originally posted by MMOExposed

we had that.

it was called SWG.

But SWTOR killed it.

True. SWG was taken offline the exact same date SWTOR was launched.

There were several themeparks in SWG, alas long questlines. I see no problems with incorporating themeparks in a sandbox, since the sandbox concept allows just about any content to be added.

Except that there were like 3 'themeparks' in old SWG (literally called 'themeparks' too), but the legacy questline wasn't added until they butchered the game itself to be repackaged for the masses.

So yes, it's possible, but in SWG's case the three themeparks were never that popular compared to other outlets. People would rather crawl around the Tusken Village than do quests for Vader... as strange as that sounds.

Maybe the climate's changed to the point where that's the only thing people *would* do, and everything else gets forgotten about... or maybe it's just something that changes person to person - like the varying levels of creativity and initiative (or lack thereof) people tend to have.

There would be some conflicting and competing mechanics and features that define each game.

ArcheAge tries to do it.

Originally posted by fenistil

ArcheAge tries to do it.

Yeah, but I worry that they will try to occupy all available space with overarching quest goals, like a full-out themepark, when it's much better to relegate sections of the game world to this kind of stuff so that people doing gated content are more likely to bump into each other, while leaving the others that are going about their own business to do so without interfering with each other. No idear how big the world itself is, though.

Otherwise, that would be like getting peanut butter in my chocolate, and I'm highly allergic to nuts.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

we had that.

it was called SWG.

But SWTOR killed it.

Uh no. SWG still was better than SWTOR and still is.