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80 posts found
  Khaeros

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/11
Posts: 463

7/23/12 2:30:06 PM#41
Originally posted by bishbosh2

1. LoL has a fairly low skill cap compared to DOTA/HON

 

Here we go, people.  Let's break it down.

 

This above statement is true.  However, none of you come remotely close to the skill cap of either game.  It doesn't matter if DotA requires more skill than LoL - none of you are 2k+, none of you have won any serious tournaments, and you're not signed by serious teams. 

 

When you say 'skill cap' like it matters, you're basing it on the assumption that you have reached it.  Which you haven't.  And since none of you have reached it (and will ever reach it), the 'skill cap' of a game should be the last consideration if you're trying to decide between both games.

 

If you're a top ten player, then I'll definitely listen to what you have to say about the skill cap of your chosen game.  Hell, I might even listen to you if you were at least plat.

  gravesworn

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 325

7/23/12 2:38:20 PM#42
Here is my 2 balls, dota2 is more skill based than the others i have played. So i gravitate to dota2 for that. Hon as my favorite art direction of the gerne. With that said, i have been having a blast in smite beta. It isnt as skill based as dota 2 but its hella fun. That is my 2 balls.
  Geeves

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/09
Posts: 148

MUNDO!!

7/23/12 5:38:26 PM#43
Originally posted by Gdemami


Originally posted by Geeves

1. Player A gets 200g. Player B loses 100g.
2. Player A gets 300g. Player B loses nothing.

The exact sameadvantage is being conferred in both scenarios.


As long as 200g < 300g, they are not the same.


Option 1 is obviously a better design as it gives greater diversity between income of 2 teams, therefore more dynamics and more options.

 

No. That's flat out wrong and you either didn't read my post or you didn't understand it. The "diversity in income" is identical in both scenarios. It's 300. There is actually potential for LESS "diversity in income" in option 1 if the player being killed has less than 100g.

You really don't understand games if you think that "diversity in income" creates more "dynamics and options". It creates greater snowballs, makes comebacks less likely and makes the game less fun to play and watch because the outcome is more easily predicted.

MUNDO!!

  Geeves

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/09
Posts: 148

MUNDO!!

7/23/12 5:50:49 PM#44
Originally posted by Khaeros
Originally posted by bishbosh2

1. LoL has a fairly low skill cap compared to DOTA/HON

 

Here we go, people.  Let's break it down.

 

This above statement is true.  However, none of you come remotely close to the skill cap of either game.  It doesn't matter if DotA requires more skill than LoL - none of you are 2k+, none of you have won any serious tournaments, and you're not signed by serious teams. 

 

When you say 'skill cap' like it matters, you're basing it on the assumption that you have reached it.  Which you haven't.  And since none of you have reached it (and will ever reach it), the 'skill cap' of a game should be the last consideration if you're trying to decide between both games.

 

If you're a top ten player, then I'll definitely listen to what you have to say about the skill cap of your chosen game.  Hell, I might even listen to you if you were at least plat.

The quoted statement is actually not true (click the link I posted earlier for a statistical explanation of why that is), but ignoring that for a moment. 

What makes it particularly hilarious is that DotA players were originally WC3 players who couldn't handle a more challenging, strategically deep game with WC3 melée. They played the RTS lite DotA, a game that required half the apm and didn't track your statistics. I often think the masochistic posing that goes with these LoL/DotA arguments comes from a deep sense of inadequacy that they couldn't handle a real RTS. If difficulty is the only thing that matters when judging a game then why aren't they playing WC3 or SC2?

MUNDO!!

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7312

7/28/12 3:20:57 AM#45


Originally posted by Geeves

That's flat out wrong and you either didn't read my post or you didn't understand it.

So you still insist that 200g = 300g math is correct...


I did read your post, understand it but you still fail (hard) at math and make no sense - if both scenarios are the same how one can be less diverse and makes greater snowballs and harder comebacks? This is what diversion and dynamics mean...you don't like it, fine but there is no point in denying.

Greater snowballs? Eh, I guess by your logic we could as well remove respawn timers, last hitting, creep waves and all that stuff entirely because it makes the comebacks less likely...


While you see those "less likely comeback" mechanics as more ways how to get owned, there are others who enjoy to exploit them because some people do like depth and options in their games.

  mindsplit

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/04
Posts: 27

7/28/12 3:22:07 AM#46

SMNC

  Geeves

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/09
Posts: 148

MUNDO!!

7/28/12 3:42:18 AM#47
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Geeves

That's flat out wrong and you either didn't read my post or you didn't understand it.

 

So you still insist that 200g = 300g math is correct...


I did read your post, understand it but you still fail (hard) at math and make no sense - if both scenarios are the same how one can be less diverse and makes greater snowballs and harder comebacks? This is what diversion and dynamics mean...you don't like it, fine but there is no point in denying.

 

Greater snowballs? Eh, I guess by your logic we could as well remove respawn timers, last hitting, creep waves and all that stuff entirely because it makes the comebacks less likely...


While you see those "less likely comeback" mechanics as more ways how to get owned, there are others who enjoy to exploit them because some people do like depth and options in their games.

Who the hell is talking about 200 = 300? You're the one that keeps bringing that up. My math is that 200+100 is the same as 300 + 0. Are you honestly trying to argue that that isn't the case?

My second point wasn't that the either of the above scenarios produces greater snowballs (they can't because the "diversity in income is the same in both scenarios), my point was that diversity in income isn't in itself a good thing in these games because it produces greater snowballs. Depth in games can produce snowballs, but reducing the effect wherever possible produces a more exciting spectacle. It's a balancing act, and honestly I feel LoL has it better balanced than DotA.

The example with the two scenarios was simply there to demonstrate that gold loss on death doesn't really add anything, because the same advantage can be achieved by simply giving the killer more gold. That gives both the killer and the killed more options, more to do and makes the game more fun for both parties.

Don't try and second guess "my logic". You're not very good at it.

MUNDO!!

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

7/28/12 3:49:57 AM#48

League of Legends is the most popular one with 35+ million accounts.

That dwarfs every MOBA out there and generates tons of streaming / discussion etc.

I tried HoN but just couldn't get into it so I'm playing LoL. :)

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7312

7/28/12 6:51:18 AM#49


Originally posted by Geeves

Who the hell is talking about 200 = 300?

You...


Originally posted by Geeves

The example with the two scenarios was simply there to demonstrate that gold loss on death doesn't really add anything, because the same advantage can be achieved by simply giving the killer more gold. That gives both the killer and the killed more options, more to do and makes the game more fun for both parties.


You almost got the point why there is a gold loss. What you fail to grasp is that you losing 100g is not the same as me gaining equal amount - you will not buy anything for gold you do not have.

You propose only gains without loss but it is the loss adding the consequences.

It is the death penalty giving the game depth and options. Without any death penalty, you would be instantly respawning and rushing back to battle without any actual consequence for dying over and over. With death penalties tho, and harsher they are, every each death is crucial and can decide the outcome of entire match.

This can be easily seen in late games when single battle can be a difference between lost or won game, and that is only because of death penalty in form of respawn timer.

Gold loss upon death does the same, it provides more options, more consequences since early game.

Have your easy game and play LoL, if you want something more challenging though, you have to seek elsewhere.

  Geeves

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/09
Posts: 148

MUNDO!!

7/28/12 9:50:13 AM#50
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Geeves

Who the hell is talking about 200 = 300?


 

You...

 


Originally posted by Geeves

The example with the two scenarios was simply there to demonstrate that gold loss on death doesn't really add anything, because the same advantage can be achieved by simply giving the killer more gold. That gives both the killer and the killed more options, more to do and makes the game more fun for both parties.


 


You almost got the point why there is a gold loss. What you fail to grasp is that you losing 100g is not the same as me gaining equal amount - you will not buy anything for gold you do not have.

You propose only gains without loss but it is the loss adding the consequences.

 

It is the death penalty giving the game depth and options. Without any death penalty, you would be instantly respawning and rushing back to battle without any actual consequence for dying over and over. With death penalties tho, and harsher they are, every each death is crucial and can decide the outcome of entire match.

This can be easily seen in late games when single battle can be a difference between lost or won game, and that is only because of death penalty in form of respawn timer.

Gold loss upon death does the same, it provides more options, more consequences since early game.

 

Have your easy game and play LoL, if you want something more challenging though, you have to seek elsewhere.

Meh. I can't be bothered explaining again how and why you're missing the point.

LoL has an extremely high skillcap. That's actually a verifiable fact. I notice you (and every other DotA fanboy) is unwilling (unable) to have a go at disproving the below. (credit to Jacob in below thread)

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1503678&page=31

----

The only substantial argument that isn't obviously fallacious presented in this topic that lends to the conclusion that DOTA is a more difficult game to play than LOL is that you get punished more for your mistakes in DOTA.

However, claiming that being punished more for mistakes makes the game more difficult is a fallacious argument as well. Let's show that by an analogous example:

If you miss a specific question on your first quiz in class A, you fail the class. The passing grade for the class overall is 70%.
If you miss a specific question on your first quiz in class B, nothing happens. The passing grade for the class overall is 70%.

Have we determined that class A is harder than class B? Not at all. Class A could be first grade math requiring you to learn addition to pass the first grade, class B could be Multivariate calculus. There is no correlation between punishing mistakes and difficulty. Without correlation, there can exist no causation. QED.

Now, in terms of LOL and DOTA what does it mean that DOTA punishes more for mistakes than LOL? It means the game is over at an earlier stage, it means a single enemy mistake can win you the game as long as you don't make a mistake serious enough to compensate for the first mistake. In LOL, you have to actively win a series of engagements over time to win. you have to beat your enemy repeatedly to win the game.

In mathematical terms, a larger sample size of teamfights/engagements directly determining the outcome of the game means you have to prove yourself more consistently better to win a game in LOL than in DOTA.

Now over the scale of a tournament, that means the winners of a LOL tournament have to more consistently show they are better than their opponents to win. luck is a lesser factor (mathematically speaking, on average). consistently showing that you are better than your opponents seems to comply with a definition of skill.

It is absurd to assess the difficulty level of a game based on anything but the difficulty it takes to master the game. (You cannot say Skyrim is easier than The Witcher 2, because beating Skyrim on Easy requires less skill than beating The Witcher 2 on the difficulty labelled easy. You have to compare their hardest difficulties for any comparison to make sense).

Again, let us turn to statistics. Platinum in season 1 was the top 0.2% of the population. That corresponds to the third standard deviation above the mean. You have to be better than platinum to be able to play competitively in any sense. That is to say, you have to be better than 99.8% of the population to be a competitive player. The skillcap of lol is thus proven to be extremely high compared to the skill-level of its player-base average. With how the elo system works, there is no mathematical reason why the ratings required for platinum were not reached by 10% of the community, if 10% of the community did actually reach the skillcap of lol.

Compared to the size of its player-base, lol is an extremely difficult game to master, i.e. the skillcap is extremely high. Anyone claiming otherwise does not understand mathematics.

does this make lol harder than dota or dota harder than lol? None of this shows comparatively one way or another. However, the myth that lol has a low skill-cap can be dismissed. It's simply not true.

The burden of evidence now lies with the DOTA crowd. can you prove less than 0.2% of the dota-population have mastered dota on a competitive level? Or rather, if you prefer absolute terms, can you prove that less than about 300 people can play DOTA at a competitive tournament level?

----

MUNDO!!

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7312

7/28/12 10:32:08 AM#51


Originally posted by Geeves

Meh. I can't be bothered explaining again how and why you're missing the point.

Good, because you are no good at it, neither is your friend and his circular, fallacious reasoning - class B CANNOT have same passing grade as class A.

  Khaeros

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/11
Posts: 463

7/28/12 10:35:31 AM#52

The only problem with that post is that it makes a huge assumption - that the average skill level of a LoL player and a DotA player are the same, which is not true at all.

 

The reason League's Platinum is only 0.2% is because much of the playerbase hasn't even made it above bronze (which would also be most of the people crying about skill caps on these forums).  After I hit 1800, I made a new account and dropped myself to the so-called 'elo hell' - at that level, you're playing with and against people that are straight autistic.

 

Even in the lower rung of HoN's rankings and DotA ladders, players were at least able to conceal their retardedness.  I found that low-ranked players adopted a defensive playstyle and were able to easily evade most evadable skillshots (like Pudge/Devourer).  Hell, some of them actually bought wards.  Compare this to League, where the people in sub 1000 elo leave themselves open to Blitzcrank grabs (if the person playing him wasn't autistic as well) and wards are an unknown item except for trolling.

 

The truth is that a HoN / DotA player has more to worry about at any given time than a LoL player, and must have more awareness.  When you're farming in HoN / DotA, you compete with the enemy team's denying skill.  When they last-hit, you have the opportunity to deny them, if you had the skill to both deny and last-hit reasonably well.  Unlike LoL where you have summoner spells that can save you in the case of bad positioning / ganks, you need to be able to predict a gank 30 seconds before it happens if you want a chance to survive against a few of the beastly gankers.

 

HoN / DotA doesn't just punish you for mistakes more than LoL - it rewards you for playing your best.  Being better at last-hitting means you can deny your opponents gold and xp; killing an enemy means you can set them back so they can't rush certain item builds; level design encourages clever use of the dynamic jungle to ambush and escape enemies, while LoL's static brush mechanic is not a suitable replacement;  the concept of 'tanky DPS' is thrown out in most cases in DotA so fights are much more deadly and about landing of skillshots versus stacking of defensive stats. 

 

There are way more opportunities for a player's skill to shine in HoN / DotA.  That's just how it works.  The post you quote relies on the assumption that your average DotA and LoL players are at the same skill level, which is completely false.  You can't compare percentages and numbers when DotA / HoN has more mechanics involved than LoL.  Therefore, you can't say that LoL has an equal or higher "skill cap" when DotA / HoN just flat-out requires more skill to perform at an equivalent level.

 

Take it from me, and if that's not good enough, take it from this former WoW nerd: HoN has a higher skill cap, but in the end, most players will never reach high enough for this to actually matter.  It's common knowledge among those of us who are plat.

 

 

  Geeves

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/09
Posts: 148

MUNDO!!

7/28/12 10:36:58 AM#53
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Geeves

Meh. I can't be bothered explaining again how and why you're missing the point.


 

Good, because you are no good at it, neither is your friend and his circular, fallacious reasoning - class B CANNOT have same passing grade as class A.

Can't respond to the rest of the post?

I'm sure there'll be some vague comment about why it's not worth it, or perhaps a baseless assertion that the reasoning is faulty. No arguments based on logic though. A bridge too far that one.

MUNDO!!

  Tonin109

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 202

Our Opinion May Differ

7/28/12 10:41:16 AM#54

i dont know this kind of game , is it like Warcraft III ? like you make a hero and soldiers to fight another hero?

i watched some videos on youtube but kinda confused only videos of guys fighting each other

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7312

7/28/12 10:47:20 AM#55


Originally posted by Geeves

Can't respond to the rest of the post?

Respond to what? I pointed out fundamental error in his theory which disproves every single line that is following as all the conclusions are made on that false premise.


What more you ask?


Honestly, reading this Jacob guy on forums you linked, he is fairly weak in mind. Just read the replies on forums and there are people posting many valid, reasoned objections and then you just read his illogical, laughable replies...

  drbaltazar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7985

7/28/12 10:58:57 AM#56

its smite hands down!the only reason the poll is low is because it is in closed beta!

  Geeves

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/09
Posts: 148

MUNDO!!

7/28/12 11:12:55 AM#57
Originally posted by Khaeros

The only problem with that post is that it makes a huge assumption - that the average skill level of a LoL player and a DotA player are the same, which is not true at all.

 

The reason League's Platinum is only 0.2% is because much of the playerbase hasn't even made it above bronze (which would also be most of the people crying about skill caps on these forums).  After I hit 1800, I made a new account and dropped myself to the so-called 'elo hell' - at that level, you're playing with and against people that are straight autistic.

 

Even in the lower rung of HoN's rankings and DotA ladders, players were at least able to conceal their retardedness.  I found that low-ranked players adopted a defensive playstyle and were able to easily evade most evadable skillshots (like Pudge/Devourer).  Hell, some of them actually bought wards.  Compare this to League, where the people in sub 1000 elo leave themselves open to Blitzcrank grabs (if the person playing him wasn't autistic as well) and wards are an unknown item except for trolling.

 

The truth is that a HoN / DotA player has more to worry about at any given time than a LoL player, and must have more awareness.  When you're farming in HoN / DotA, you compete with the enemy team's denying skill.  When they last-hit, you have the opportunity to deny them, if you had the skill to both deny and last-hit reasonably well.  Unlike LoL where you have summoner spells that can save you in the case of bad positioning / ganks, you need to be able to predict a gank 30 seconds before it happens if you want a chance to survive against a few of the beastly gankers.

 

HoN / DotA doesn't just punish you for mistakes more than LoL - it rewards you for playing your best.  Being better at last-hitting means you can deny your opponents gold and xp; killing an enemy means you can set them back so they can't rush certain item builds; level design encourages clever use of the dynamic jungle to ambush and escape enemies, while LoL's static brush mechanic is not a suitable replacement;  the concept of 'tanky DPS' is thrown out in most cases in DotA so fights are much more deadly and about landing of skillshots versus stacking of defensive stats. 

 

There are way more opportunities for a player's skill to shine in HoN / DotA.  That's just how it works.  The post you quote relies on the assumption that your average DotA and LoL players are at the same skill level, which is completely false.  You can't compare percentages and numbers when DotA / HoN has more mechanics involved than LoL.  Therefore, you can't say that LoL has an equal or higher "skill cap" when DotA / HoN just flat-out requires more skill to perform at an equivalent level.

 

Take it from me, and if that's not good enough, take it from this former WoW nerd: HoN has a higher skill cap, but in the end, most players will never reach high enough for this to actually matter.  It's common knowledge among those of us who are plat.

The post doesn't say anything about DotA at all. All it says is that 0.2% of the playerbase is playing LoL at close to a professional level, or close to the skillcap. The game has a more than big enough sample size to draw on, and that's a small enough number to reliably assert that LoL has a very high skill cap. If it didn't, that number would be higher. It really is that simple.

The great unwashed don't factor in to it. That there are players of all skill levels playing the game should be obvious, but it's those at the top that this analysis is aimed at. The point is that there aren't that many players at the top because it's not easy to get there.

The rest of your post is just meaningless comparisons between specific mechanics, personal anecdotes and opinions. I could start a post of all the things that LoL has that DotA doesn't have, but it would be pointless because there really isn't a way to compare the countless number of contextual factors that go into challenge and depth in MOBAs. LoL throws a lot of things that make DotA a deep game out of the window, but it adds plenty of things that add it's own type of depth. It makes the games similar with completely different areas of focus. That's why direct comparisons don't work.

I'm not ragging on DotA btw. (haven't played much of HoN) It's a great game in it's own right. I understand why people enjoy what DotA offers more than LoL. I just find a lot of what's argued about League of Legends is argued in ignorance.

Anyway that thread goes on and addresses a similar argument.

----

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
unfortunately Jakob, the argument for DOTA being more difficult than LoL is not based on a passing rate rather its based on content. you have a well thought out argument but using your example what would be compared is the difficulty of the questions on the test not the overall passing rate. the "passing rate" in both games are still about the same as one team must win and one team must lose.

and in order to compare the "questions on the test" one must have taken both tests. IE played both games extensively. which you may or may not have.

I expected this response. Your premise is accurate, your conclusion is not.

My argument is based on content, implicitly. You correctly state that the passing rate on a test depends on the difficulty of a test: that is to say, a lower passing rate means a harder test, which means the content of the test is harder. The "passing rate" for LOL is such that less than 0.2% of the community "passed" that is mastered the game. That is the difficulty of the test in relation to its own player-base. That indicates an extremely difficult test. This passing rate is evaluated with a base value corresponding to the average skill of the player-base. (This is how elo functions as a system).

I acknowledge directly the fact that my argument does not comparatively assess LOL against DOTA. The comparison of "taking both tests" is a flawed concept. That is why all college classes are graded in comparison to that class, your grade is based on how you perform in relation to the others taking the same test at the same time. I assess the difficulty of LOL in relation to LOL's playerbase. The difficulty of DOTA can only be assessed in relation to its playerbase. Unless a rigorously structured experiment is conducted, no comparison can be made that isn't just anecdotal evidence. These experiments cannot function, as they require hundreds of people to spend hundreds of hours learning both games, then comparing them against each-other. Statistically, bodies of 1200 people or more randomly selected approximate the population from which they are selected with more than a 95% confidence rating.

the passing rate in both games does not have to be the same. The passing rate for the same game does not have to be the same for different regions or times. That is the beauty of the elo system: it does not favor a normal distribution, it favors a distribution where there is a large majority who are worse than the starting value, then fewer and fewer people towards the positive extreme. It is possible for a large amount of people to be significantly better than average and therefore climb to that value. That is to say, there is no cap on how many people can get to 2000 elo. the percentage of people "passing" LOL isn't set like a curved class would be. It's likely that the number of people playing on a competitive level is small, but it's not necessary at all.

The passing rates of EU West, EU East and the US server was different. It still is at the start of season 2. EU west currently has 88 players above 2k elo. The US server has 102. EU East has 19. these passing rates are vastly different. your assumption that the passing rate of DOTA is similar to the passing rate of LOL is not a valid assumption to make. There is nothing to indicate that it is true.

Showing that the passing rate of DOTA is similar to lol's passing rate suggests that the difficulty of the games is comparable. that is not intuitive, but it is the statistically probable case. If a group of 1200 random gamers are selected from the group of "all computer gamers" they will approximate the body of gamers with a 95% confidence rating. due to the large sizes of the bodies of people involved in these two games, there is nothing that would indicate that one game population is "more skilled" than the other. To the contrary, it is extremely improbable the larger the player-bases are that they differ in skill level. As gamers, their socio-economic backgrounds must be similar, to have free time, and the access to playing long hours of online games.

Claiming that a large group of people is existentially better/more skilled than another is an elitist argument. These arguments are extremely slippery slopes, when they are not founded in factual claims. it is simply your personal opinion that the DOTA community is more skilled than the LOL community. It is statistically very improbable that your opinion is a statistical reality.

TL;DR: you are wrong. the passing rating shows the difficulty of the content of the test when large groups of people are tested, as the groups tested are statistically extremely likely to be similarly skilled.

----

What IS interesting is that soon enough the two games will be able to be compared in this area (as DotA 2 will have a similar matchmaking system). I've no doubt it will be statistically proven that DotA has an extremely high skill cap as well.

MUNDO!!

  Geeves

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/09
Posts: 148

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7/28/12 11:17:05 AM#58
Originally posted by Tonin109

i dont know this kind of game , is it like Warcraft III ? like you make a hero and soldiers to fight another hero?

i watched some videos on youtube but kinda confused only videos of guys fighting each other

DotA, HoN and LoL are similar to WC3 except you don't control the units, just a singular hero. The genre takes the RPG aspect of WC3 and expands on it while greatly reducing the required level of micromanagement.

MUNDO!!

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7312

7/28/12 11:35:44 AM#59


Originally posted by Geeves

All it says is that 0.2% of the playerbase is playing LoL at close to a professional level, or close to the skillcap. The game has a more than big enough sample size to draw on, and that's a small enough number to reliably assert that LoL has a very high skill cap. If it didn't, that number would be higher. It really is that simple.


Yeah, because picking top 0.2% in any sample you provide just proves about anything...


There is no point quoting more of similarly retarded arguments like this guy is making.

  Geeves

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/09
Posts: 148

MUNDO!!

7/28/12 11:46:04 AM#60
Originally posted by Gdemami


Originally posted by Geeves

All it says is that 0.2% of the playerbase is playing LoL at close to a professional level, or close to the skillcap. The game has a more than big enough sample size to draw on, and that's a small enough number to reliably assert that LoL has a very high skill cap. If it didn't, that number would be higher. It really is that simple.


Yeah, because picking top 0.2% in any sample you provide just proves about anything...


There is no point in quoting more of similarly retarded arguments like this guy is making.

You do realize that shallow games are mastered by more than 0.2% of the playerbase don't you?

You're not keeping up. You haven't been for a while.

MUNDO!!

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