Originally posted by MattVid

They seem to be putting a high value and focus on exploration, which is totally unlike any theme park MMO 

thats my favorite part of GW2

No holy trinity, and it works. That's all that needs to be said, the end...

Originally posted by Wolfynsong

 Originally posted by Fadedbomb

... You're right in thinking that ANet hasn't intentionally hyped their own product like SWTOR did, BUT you're neglecting the fact that the fanbase has been trying to bill GW2 as the second coming for MMOs (ie: consumer generated hype). Trying to modify the definition for your own purposes doesn't exactly fit well in this kind of discussion.

You're refering to the GW2 fanboys.  GW2 is different enough that - if it garners huge monetary success - it will have a decent chance at influencing the industry, much like WoW did in the past.

But when you encounter someone who declares this chance to be a certainty, then you know you're dealing with a fanboy, and again, I can't speak for them.

 

I actually can already state this, its already stateable. if the ciriteria is influcencing the industry then it has how many  3 sided pvp has we seen announced just this year for games just startign development <1 year, 2,3,4 ? ... I mean thats enough right there now you can say this is nothing new.. and thats 100% true this is a daoc feature.. that almost no one would risk taking the time to implement... until now, that it has been shown feesable today and conceptually popular (they have always know it to be actually effective from daoc).

Now to claim it will have the SAME effect or domminate the industry as much as wow did.. thats a fanboy. To state what is already an observable fact however is not.  Heck look at WoW it has already taken and ported 3-4 abilities right from GW2. That should be enough said in itself.

Reguardless, gw2 will not the the amazing game everyone is looking for .. good fun, good pvp, fun play. NOT EPIC (well save WvWvW), WITHOUT A DOUBT. it lacks diversity of roles, it eqiupment system will attacked less than 15% of typical mmo players, it is not open world, it lacks end game pve content that is elite, amoungst other glaring issues.

Still the game is fun, which cannot hardly be said of most mmos for a long time.

Edit - sorry for ths misspellings, and anyone who thought swtor was going to be anything... well was lieing to themselves anyone with two eyes knew better.

Originally posted by jeremyjodes

The Industry is stuck in a huge rut. what guild wars 2 will do is nothing more then provide people who have waited so many years the game they wanted.

At the end of the game day it's just another themepark with no monthly sub. if people enjoy it great. but it changes nothing for the genre. it won't kill Wow and it won't be a genre shaper.

The only thing about it is it allows the player to walk away after they hit the content wall and themepark burnout and return when they add more content and another 5 levels without the hassle of re-subbing which is like a 3 minute process with a credit card if it had it.

 

 

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by MattVid

They seem to be putting a high value and focus on exploration, which is totally unlike any theme park MMO 

thats my favorite part of GW2

I agree, but as usual quite a few people think I'm attacking GW2 so they feel the need to overly defend it with hostility. That's fine, I understand the need, but it's not what should be taken away from the overall message :)!.

The problem I have is that this USED to be a large part of what an MMO was. Nowadays it's all about someone else's pre-defined story that you really have no connection to, but are forced to play through it like it should matter or that it's like some kind of book.

I however do enjoy the fact this sort of gameplay is returning :)!

Originally posted by Distaste

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

That seems to be your problem, or perhaps your problem is with "similarities" and the word "cloning". Where did I say GW2 was a clone of GW1? No where, not a single spot. I said they were similar for obvious reasons, and GW2 was GW1 on steroids because it was built for the FANS of GW1 as a propr sequel. Again, people seem to have the misconception that "on steroids" == horrible clone?????

No, the problem lies in your choice of words and the misconceptions they bring. When you say "B is A on steroids", that gives the impression that "B" is simply a beefed up version of "A". (See Mark McGuire early and later in his career.) You give the false impression that GW2 is a heavily instanced CORPG as GW1 is, which couldn't be further from the truth. That's where the problem lies... what's implied from the statement.

GW2 IS a "beefed up version" of GW1. Perhaps it's the misunderstanding, or personal opinion, of what certain words mean? After all it is very hard to get the overally "emotion" behind an online post. When I see a 1995 Ford Mustang compared to a 2010 Ford Mustang I think "WoW, they really improved on the old for the fans of the old with the new!". All the while everything between the two was reworked, but generally is the same car.

GW2 is no different, and the expression "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" was a compliment meant to show appreciation that it was made with GW1 in mind as its source. Maybe you're too tighly wound up over people being negative about GW2?

 

/shrug

GW2 is completely different than GW1 besides the IP. Your car example simply doesn't work because mechanically a lot of things between a 95 mustang and a 2010 mustang are very similar as well as ultimately driving similarly.

I think his car example works well. The 2010 will cost a hell of a lot more than the 95'. Just like GW2 will cost a hell of a lot more than GW1.

Originally posted by Jetrpg

 

I actually can already state this, its already stateable. if the ciriteria is influcencing the industry then it has how many  3 sided pvp has we seen announced just this year for games just startign development <1 year, 2,3,4 ? ... I mean thats enough right there now you can say this is nothing new.. and thats 100% true this is a daoc feature.. that almost no one would risk taking the time to implement... until now, that it has been shown feesable today and conceptually popular (they have always know it to be actually effective from daoc).

Now to claim it will have the SAME effect or domminate the industry as much as wow did.. thats a fanboy. To state what is already an observable fact however is not.  Heck look at WoW it has already taken and ported 3-4 abilities right from GW2. That should be enough said in itself.

Reguardless, gw2 will not the the amazing game everyone is looking for .. good fun, good pvp, fun play. NOT EPIC (well save WvWvW), WITHOUT A DOUBT. it lacks diversity of roles, it eqiupment system will attacked less than 15% of typical mmo players, it is not open world, it lacks end game pve content that is elite, amoungst other glaring issues.

Still the game is fun, which cannot hardly be said of most mmos for a long time.

 

Edit - sorry for ths misspellings, and anyone who thought swtor was going to be anything... well was lieing to themselves anyone with two eyes knew better.

 

Open word giant bosses?

What about the non MMORPG games that dislike gear grind?

Not open world?

Non elite content? Hello explorer mode dungeons?

Originally posted by travamars

Originally posted by Distaste

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

That seems to be your problem, or perhaps your problem is with "similarities" and the word "cloning". Where did I say GW2 was a clone of GW1? No where, not a single spot. I said they were similar for obvious reasons, and GW2 was GW1 on steroids because it was built for the FANS of GW1 as a propr sequel. Again, people seem to have the misconception that "on steroids" == horrible clone?????

No, the problem lies in your choice of words and the misconceptions they bring. When you say "B is A on steroids", that gives the impression that "B" is simply a beefed up version of "A". (See Mark McGuire early and later in his career.) You give the false impression that GW2 is a heavily instanced CORPG as GW1 is, which couldn't be further from the truth. That's where the problem lies... what's implied from the statement.

GW2 IS a "beefed up version" of GW1. Perhaps it's the misunderstanding, or personal opinion, of what certain words mean? After all it is very hard to get the overally "emotion" behind an online post. When I see a 1995 Ford Mustang compared to a 2010 Ford Mustang I think "WoW, they really improved on the old for the fans of the old with the new!". All the while everything between the two was reworked, but generally is the same car.

GW2 is no different, and the expression "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" was a compliment meant to show appreciation that it was made with GW1 in mind as its source. Maybe you're too tighly wound up over people being negative about GW2?

 

/shrug

GW2 is completely different than GW1 besides the IP. Your car example simply doesn't work because mechanically a lot of things between a 95 mustang and a 2010 mustang are very similar as well as ultimately driving similarly.

I think his car example works well. The 2010 will cost a hell of a lot more than the 95'. Just like GW2 will cost a hell of a lot more than GW1.

Right, but my car example was meant as a point towards Increased Quality, Care, Attention to Detail, and improvements over the former more than a pricepoint example although true in and of itself as well.

I disagree completely that they're "completely different" because if they were it wouldn't be called "GuildWars 2". Just my side of things :)!

Just about every mmo since Wow has sold well at launch but has died within 6 months. GW2 will be no different.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Jetrpg

 

I actually can already state this, its already stateable. if the ciriteria is influcencing the industry then it has how many  3 sided pvp has we seen announced just this year for games just startign development <1 year, 2,3,4 ? ... I mean thats enough right there now you can say this is nothing new.. and thats 100% true this is a daoc feature.. that almost no one would risk taking the time to implement... until now, that it has been shown feesable today and conceptually popular (they have always know it to be actually effective from daoc).

Now to claim it will have the SAME effect or domminate the industry as much as wow did.. thats a fanboy. To state what is already an observable fact however is not.  Heck look at WoW it has already taken and ported 3-4 abilities right from GW2. That should be enough said in itself.

Reguardless, gw2 will not the the amazing game everyone is looking for .. good fun, good pvp, fun play. NOT EPIC (well save WvWvW), WITHOUT A DOUBT. it lacks diversity of roles, it eqiupment system will attacked less than 15% of typical mmo players, it is not open world, it lacks end game pve content that is elite, amoungst other glaring issues.

Still the game is fun, which cannot hardly be said of most mmos for a long time.

 

Edit - sorry for ths misspellings, and anyone who thought swtor was going to be anything... well was lieing to themselves anyone with two eyes knew better.

 

Open word giant bosses?

What about the non MMORPG games that dislike gear grind?

Not open world?

Non elite content? Hello explorer mode dungeons?

Generally "open world" means no instances, and more has to do with the ability to interact with a non-instanced world system such as placing houses etc than anything else.

Dungeons are instanced, and not open.

Housing is also city-instanced, and not part of the open world.

However, I believe that was merely his point.

While I DO agree that GW2 is far more "open" than its predecessor it still has some ways to go to be truly "Open World". :)

Originally posted by Mephster

Just about every mmo since Wow has sold well at launch but has died within 6 months. GW2 will be no different.

I'm not completely convinced of that just yet as the average gamer for GW2 seems more mature (or at least the ones that don't frequent the forums too much). However, I predict GW2 will be a decently sustained title for a couple years, but it won't be anything epic or massive to speak of.

/shrug

I have tryed to read through this thread that really have went crazy. I would have like if OP had contributed with more argument and less oppinions about his points. And while vigour have been shown by OP, i am in doubt if this thread coulden't just as well have been locked, for not really contributing to a discussion but just stating oppinions.

As an exsample I would like to discuss the headline

"GW2 will be seen as successful due to box sales only, doesn't mean it's an industry changer. " 

thats a claim and an oppinion. But is it right?

The ones deciding if its a industry changer is the industry that is going to evaluate if they are going to let GW2 set standards for their own upcomming games. Are they going to use boxsales as a measure ? yes ofcause what else should they use when there is no subscribtion. offcause we can't expect that what fans see as succefull is going to match when the industry takes note. But if it is going to be an idustry changer it WILL be due succesfull enough boxsales.  Thats how it is 

But is there reason to expect a industry changer? That could be discussed instead of OP's wild claims. Here we could have looked at features, innovation, polish, and design. Instead OP claims it's all hype.

As usual when we get in this direction on this board i direct attention to this old thread by meowhead

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/336987/The-Tao-of-Arenanet.html

that actual gives some good explanation on why GW2 is innovative. And thats properly alot better place to take this discussion from, than the RANT that OP came with.

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by nGumball

 

Now don´t get me worng, I don´t say that GW2 will '' do '' anything. However, it can do much, in my opinion as I have worked in the mmo-industry and kinda know the situation there. There is a chance but nothing is sure. If GW2 '' want '' to be the best, it will reach that through the gameplay etc, nd the B2P thingy will not matter here.

If you worked in the industry, then there is no way you worked on game design.   Business model means everything, since the P2W model forces developers to design game mechanics so they can be monetized.  If GW2 is a B2P MMO, then why is there a CS?   Simple answer is it is P2W.

Added this guy to the ignore list lol.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Ovum

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

And in case you missed it OP, P2P game sell boxes. They most of their investement back like any B2P would. The difference is, the P2P keeps gettin money after that, which is usually more usefull.

Which is my entire point, or did you NOT read my thread as your post seems to indicate?

 

I pointed out that P2P games also do box sales, but GW2 is ONLY doing box sales which in itself is not a measure of pure success. However, people will still shout "SUCCESS!" simply because it's B2P, but that isn't true simply because they're planning to milk GW2 with cash-shops as their form of subscriptions.

Pff. That's just plaing stupid. So you sir are saying that if a certain game isn't P2P it ain't successful? 

I think his intention with that is to say that no matter how many boxes it sells, we can never call it successful. I think, after reading all of his posts, he is afraid that everyone is going to see 5 million copies sold in the first month and that people will proclaim it as being successful. So he makes excuses like, "it's all the GW1 players that bought GW1 spread out over 7 years", etc.

 

If GW2 sells some stupid number of boxes like 5 million in the first month (probably not happening), he doesn't want people to be able to proclaim, "COMPLETE SUCCESS ON ALL COUNTS." It seems like he feels like it's not fair because they don't have to release sub numbers.

That makes a lot of sense. Seems to be true.

Though Faded, if what you mean GW1 on steriods, what I'd say is, if you take a lot of the quests from GW1 and chain them together, and put them in the open world you might or will have Dynamic Events.

Skill bar usage

PVP with no gear grind

Able to make a PVP character only in GW 2 you just use your PVE character

There might be more things. The only issue is GW 2 is still very different from GW 1, by far lmao.

Originally posted by Wolfynsong

Originally posted by RizelStar

Added this guy to the ignore list lol.

[mod edit]

Very true. Yet in still I did what i said lol.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Mephster

Just about every mmo since Wow has sold well at launch but has died within 6 months. GW2 will be no different.

I'm not completely convinced of that just yet as the average gamer for GW2 seems more mature (or at least the ones that don't frequent the forums too much). However, I predict GW2 will be a decently sustained title for a couple years, but it won't be anything epic or massive to speak of.

 

/shrug

Yeah I would have to agree. They do have a nice following but guarantee once we get something better than GW2 they will flock  elsewhere. 

Originally posted by Mephster

Yeah I would have to agree. They do have a nice following but guarantee once we get something better than GW2 they will flock  elsewhere. 

I wonder how long it will take...?

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

As for outlining the "Flaws" of GW2 I won't do that here just yet. I'm still compiling my Preview of GW2 based on the betas & E3 conversations I've had. That aside, my Previews are generally more heated than this discussion simply because of the amount of people that are wearing Rose Colored glasses that 100% disagree with me. It's the nature of the beast unfortunately :).

Tik tak, tik tak, when are the "Flaws of GW2" coming, is it time yet after 17 pages or do we have to wait longer?... :)

Originally posted by Wolfynsong

Originally posted by Mephster

Yeah I would have to agree. They do have a nice following but guarantee once we get something better than GW2 they will flock  elsewhere. 

I wonder how long it will take...?

prediction

Lots and lots of years as they will flock elsewhere, be disappointed, and always come back :D

/prediction

Originally posted by Sebber

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

As for outlining the "Flaws" of GW2 I won't do that here just yet. I'm still compiling my Preview of GW2 based on the betas & E3 conversations I've had. That aside, my Previews are generally more heated than this discussion simply because of the amount of people that are wearing Rose Colored glasses that 100% disagree with me. It's the nature of the beast unfortunately :).

Tik tak, tik tak, when are the "Flaws of GW2" coming, is it time yet after 17 pages or do we have to wait longer?... :)

He is waiting for release most likely.