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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Combat Questions

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33 posts found
  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

7/12/12 1:46:12 PM#21
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by immodium

What I find strange is that Skyrim sold over 3.5 million copies in under 48 hours of release (God knows what it's at now, still top 10 sales in Steam nearly a year on) but no AAA develoer hasn't thought to implement the combat system in an MMO.

One day, hopefully.

ah but there is!

Darkfall

Its pretty much very close to what everyone would expect out of a TES Online model. I have always been shocked at how much Darkfall didnt became a lot more popular than it did. I think the main reason is the FFA part scared off a lot of people.

Darkfall is a horrible example to throw out for any reference. The game is crap, thats why nobody plays it. And to stay on Topic the Combat I need to see actual gameplay. Sounds interesting and hope it makes the game fun.

its actually a great example.

some people have a hard time understanding the difference between a FEATURE and the ENTIRE GAME.

I assume you are one of those people.

Nobody dislikes darkfall because of the FPS combat mechanics, open world, no instances, housing, skill based, no classes and no forced factions. They dont like it becuase of balance which is usually stored in an XML file that can be changed on the fly so its not a huge deal.

Why are there so many gamers that are completely clueless its stunning!

Correlation does not imply causation

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

7/12/12 1:50:50 PM#22
Originally posted by Wolvards
Originally posted by Mexorilla
Originally posted by immodium

What I find strange is that Skyrim sold over 3.5 million copies in under 48 hours of release (God knows what it's at now, still top 10 sales in Steam nearly a year on) but no AAA develoer hasn't thought to implement the combat system in an MMO.

One day, hopefully.

Elder Scrolls isnt fun becuase of the combat. 

And that's how i find it as too. TES (in my own opinion) is more about just the exploration. And it's wierd how some people say Skyrim combat hasn't been done in an MMO, yet others say it has (Darkfall).... 

I agree that TES is about exploration and for me the feeling of exploring is completely killed when I have to stare at my toons back all day. Its really ruins the entire experience of actually being there. So I am not overly concerned with the combat being as good as Darkfall (which is an amazing combat engine I think even the haters would agree with on that), but I do want to feel like I am there and that is really hard to do in no FPS interface.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Wolvards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/12
Posts: 674

 
OP  7/12/12 1:57:04 PM#23
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Wolvards
Originally posted by Mexorilla
Originally posted by immodium

What I find strange is that Skyrim sold over 3.5 million copies in under 48 hours of release (God knows what it's at now, still top 10 sales in Steam nearly a year on) but no AAA develoer hasn't thought to implement the combat system in an MMO.

One day, hopefully.

Elder Scrolls isnt fun becuase of the combat. 

And that's how i find it as too. TES (in my own opinion) is more about just the exploration. And it's wierd how some people say Skyrim combat hasn't been done in an MMO, yet others say it has (Darkfall).... 

I agree that TES is about exploration and for me the feeling of exploring is completely killed when I have to stare at my toons back all day. Its really ruins the entire experience of actually being there. So I am not overly concerned with the combat being as good as Darkfall (which is an amazing combat engine I think even the haters would agree with on that), but I do want to feel like I am there and that is really hard to do in no FPS interface.

This (and you previous post) is where you are wrong.

I played DF all but 2 hours. I hated the combat. I might have be able to work with it and get better, but I didn't like it.

Skyrim's combat I love, you want to know why? Different settings. 

SPRPG--MMORPG... HUGE difference in playstyles for ME. Skyrim I can slow down (literally too, if i zoom my bow it slows down), and take my time with my fights. Especially playing on harder difficulties, there is no one or two weapons/spells/items to use in a fight, i'm bouncing between a solid 10-15 combo's. 

I can't key-bind and memorize those, nor have the desire to. I don't like Darkfall for a few reasons, only one i experienced.

-Combat

-OWPvP (gank)

-Community

Everything else I can/could deal with, but those 3 turn me off of it. 

I understand YOU love Darkfalls combat, but dont think EVERYONE who has played Skyrim does. 

(BTW i play Skyrim in third person unless i'm shooting my bow, or sneaking)

The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

7/12/12 2:00:55 PM#24
Originally posted by Wolvards
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Wolvards
Originally posted by Mexorilla
Originally posted by immodium

What I find strange is that Skyrim sold over 3.5 million copies in under 48 hours of release (God knows what it's at now, still top 10 sales in Steam nearly a year on) but no AAA develoer hasn't thought to implement the combat system in an MMO.

One day, hopefully.

Elder Scrolls isnt fun becuase of the combat. 

And that's how i find it as too. TES (in my own opinion) is more about just the exploration. And it's wierd how some people say Skyrim combat hasn't been done in an MMO, yet others say it has (Darkfall).... 

I agree that TES is about exploration and for me the feeling of exploring is completely killed when I have to stare at my toons back all day. Its really ruins the entire experience of actually being there. So I am not overly concerned with the combat being as good as Darkfall (which is an amazing combat engine I think even the haters would agree with on that), but I do want to feel like I am there and that is really hard to do in no FPS interface.

This (and you previous post) is where you are wrong.

I played DF all but 2 hours. I hated the combat. I might have be able to work with it and get better, but I didn't like it.

Skyrim's combat I love, you want to know why? Different settings. 

SPRPG--MMORPG... HUGE difference in playstyles for ME. Skyrim I can slow down (literally too, if i zoom my bow it slows down), and take my time with my fights. Especially playing on harder difficulties, there is no one or two weapons/spells/items to use in a fight, i'm bouncing between a solid 10-15 combo's. 

I can't key-bind and memorize those, nor have the desire to. I don't like Darkfall for a few reasons, only one i experienced.

-Combat

-OWPvP (gank)

-Community

Everything else I can/could deal with, but those 3 turn me off of it. 

I understand YOU love Darkfalls combat, but dont think EVERYONE who has played Skyrim does. 

(BTW i play Skyrim in third person unless i'm shooting my bow, or sneaking)

you are in a very small minority. In my 3 years of playing I have seen players quit and only one quit because of the combat engine. They simply didnt have the paitence to learn it.

Most people who quit simply got tired of people killing them and were put off by how long it took to skill gain. I would venture to say those two reasons makes up about 95% of the people who quit. The rest of the people who never played didnt play because it was FFA PVP and that made up about...around ...100% of the people who didnt play.

 

added: I also read the forum pages often and it was very rare for people to complain about the combat, in fact on the forums I dont ever recall someone saying that. They complained about skill gain, unfairness, and developers not giving them updates, never combat.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

7/12/12 2:03:40 PM#25
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by immodium

What I find strange is that Skyrim sold over 3.5 million copies in under 48 hours of release (God knows what it's at now, still top 10 sales in Steam nearly a year on) but no AAA develoer hasn't thought to implement the combat system in an MMO.

One day, hopefully.

ah but there is!

Darkfall

Its pretty much very close to what everyone would expect out of a TES Online model. I have always been shocked at how much Darkfall didnt became a lot more popular than it did. I think the main reason is the FFA part scared off a lot of people.

Darkfall is a horrible example to throw out for any reference. The game is crap, thats why nobody plays it. And to stay on Topic the Combat I need to see actual gameplay. Sounds interesting and hope it makes the game fun.

its actually a great example.

some people have a hard time understanding the difference between a FEATURE and the ENTIRE GAME.

I assume you are one of those people.

Nobody dislikes darkfall because of the FPS combat mechanics, open world, no instances, housing, skill based, no classes and no forced factions. They dont like it becuase of balance which is usually stored in an XML file that can be changed on the fly so its not a huge deal.

Why are there so many gamers that are completely clueless its stunning!

I really don't want FPS combat mechanics in my MMORPG games. If I wanted FPS combat I would play a FPS. You really don't seem to get that. I understand  your a Darkfall Fanboy and think its the greatest game ever, but I don't think the game is worth anything. You can't change my mind or the fact that the game is crap and nobody plays it.

  Beiloch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/01/12
Posts: 74

7/12/12 2:05:04 PM#26

Hotbar with tab targeting was a non-starter for me. No matter how they spin it beyond that point, it's still just EverQuest 1 combat *record scratch* with a twist.

TERA was able to modify typical targeting to make it feel more action based. Rather then targeting and then keeping a target, you had to maintain a target by either ensuring your swings were clipping them or your reticle for ranged attacks was on them. there wasn't any deep physics involved, just as long you were making a decent effort to be targeting them when you hit the attack button, you would hit them. It would still have some 'heat seeking' once the attack goes off and you had them in your sights for ranged attacks, so was a kind of compromise between all attacks being homing missiles/lock on targeting and FPS controls with projectile physics.

Also I am not enthusiastic about their 'style' system. I've seen it done in other games and even MMO's. They would basically just give you better rating if you used a wide variety of attacks, forcing you to play less effeciently in favor of using every attack you have in a near even split to get a better rating. Not fun.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

7/12/12 2:05:36 PM#27
Originally posted by Fearum

I really don't want FPS combat mechanics in my MMORPG games. If I wanted FPS combat I would play a FPS. You really don't seem to get that. I understand  your a Darkfall Fanboy and think its the greatest game ever, but I don't think the game is worth anything. You can't change my mind or the fact that the game is crap and nobody plays it.

and honestly that is a different conversation.

Most people, and I think you. are either explictly stating or implictly stating that its not possible. Not that it is possible but they dont like it that much which is two very radically different statements.

I dont like 3rd person view at all, but I know its possible.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

7/12/12 8:18:05 PM#28
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Fearum

I really don't want FPS combat mechanics in my MMORPG games. If I wanted FPS combat I would play a FPS. You really don't seem to get that. I understand  your a Darkfall Fanboy and think its the greatest game ever, but I don't think the game is worth anything. You can't change my mind or the fact that the game is crap and nobody plays it.

and honestly that is a different conversation.

Most people, and I think you. are either explictly stating or implictly stating that its not possible. Not that it is possible but they dont like it that much which is two very radically different statements.

I dont like 3rd person view at all, but I know its possible.

I'm not sure exactly what your talking about here, what do I think is not possible? A first person shooter combat in a mmo? or first person view in a mmo? I think they are both possible but I was talking first person shooter (FPS) combat style because this thread is about combat.

I like 3rd person view in most games. I use it in all the game I play BF3, Skyrim and DayZ only to zoom in when I need to fire at people.

  Mexorilla

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/09/12
Posts: 316

7/12/12 8:23:53 PM#29
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by Wolvards
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Wolvards

I know that there is no first person view, it will be third person with limited hotbar, and classes, but i've seen many many people post if it isn't Skyrim online, or FPS based, that the game will fail, and I just don't understand how that combat would work in an MMO universe. 

it currently does work in the MMO universe. Darkfall, Mortal Online does it perfectly and no the FPS combat is NOT why the games were not hugely successful and yes Darkfall does FPS WITH 100+ people on the screen fighting. So I really do not understand where people get this idea that FPS combat doesnt work in the MMO universe when it already exists!

Its not the FPS shooter part, it's the Skyrim part. How would SKYRIM combat work in an MMO setting? How would you swap spells? It works for Skyrim cause it's single palyer, and you essentialy "pause" to swap to healing/shield/bow/whatever. But in an MMO setting SKYRIM combat WOULDNT work. Yet all i hear and read is...

"If it doesn't have the trademark Skyrim/TES combat the game will fail".

How do you put Skyrim combat into an MMO?

I have a mod for Skyrim installed called extra hot keys. I never need to pause during combat now to take potions or swap weapons/spells. Like others have mentioned, it can be done in an MMO enviroment.

 

EDIT: Actually, I can voice activate the hot keys with another bit of software :)

lol that;s awesome.  do you shout fus ro dah at your computer?

  ZigZags

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/23/10
Posts: 347

7/13/12 1:20:27 AM#30

I want to see combat like Age of Conan had, where you hit keys for directional attacks and you and to choose where to block. That would combine some of the real time combat aspects of Skyrim with more practicality of an MMO and an incentive to play in 3rd person (if thats the direction they're going).

 

I would like to see Archery and Spells be manually aimed and I want to see this done well and balanced correctly. I would imagine a hit would be devestating, but hitting a live person who can strafe and jump might be difficult. Spells should do a lot of damage as well. Balance this with the fact that pure spell casters will want to not wear armor for Magika regen and/or spell dmg buff. Allow players to craft resistances on their armor to fire/ice/ligtning/poison/disease, dont allow resistances on mage clothes, but give them spell buffs.

 

Fatalities looked cool in Conan, I want them in TESO just like Skyrim. So in conclusion, a quasi AoC combat style mixed with Skyrim is what I want for TESO.

Now: Skyrim
Later: ?
Played: M59, UO, EQ, Runescape, DAOC, SB, EQ2, WoW, EVE, Darkfall, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, WAR, SWTOR
BOYCOTTING: EA/BioWare/Origin/SOE

  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 725

7/13/12 1:49:41 AM#31
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Fearum

I really don't want FPS combat mechanics in my MMORPG games. If I wanted FPS combat I would play a FPS. You really don't seem to get that. I understand  your a Darkfall Fanboy and think its the greatest game ever, but I don't think the game is worth anything. You can't change my mind or the fact that the game is crap and nobody plays it.

and honestly that is a different conversation.

Most people, and I think you. are either explictly stating or implictly stating that its not possible. Not that it is possible but they dont like it that much which is two very radically different statements.

I dont like 3rd person view at all, but I know its possible.

I'm not sure exactly what your talking about here, what do I think is not possible? A first person shooter combat in a mmo? or first person view in a mmo? I think they are both possible but I was talking first person shooter (FPS) combat style because this thread is about combat.

I like 3rd person view in most games. I use it in all the game I play BF3, Skyrim and DayZ only to zoom in when I need to fire at people.

You can't play 3rd person in BF3, except in vehicles.

In DayZ 3rd person is used as an exploit to corner-look without exposing yourself.

3rd person combat in Skyrim is unwieldy at best.

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1321

7/13/12 2:27:16 AM#32
Originally posted by Mexorilla
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by Wolvards
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Wolvards

I know that there is no first person view, it will be third person with limited hotbar, and classes, but i've seen many many people post if it isn't Skyrim online, or FPS based, that the game will fail, and I just don't understand how that combat would work in an MMO universe. 

it currently does work in the MMO universe. Darkfall, Mortal Online does it perfectly and no the FPS combat is NOT why the games were not hugely successful and yes Darkfall does FPS WITH 100+ people on the screen fighting. So I really do not understand where people get this idea that FPS combat doesnt work in the MMO universe when it already exists!

Its not the FPS shooter part, it's the Skyrim part. How would SKYRIM combat work in an MMO setting? How would you swap spells? It works for Skyrim cause it's single palyer, and you essentialy "pause" to swap to healing/shield/bow/whatever. But in an MMO setting SKYRIM combat WOULDNT work. Yet all i hear and read is...

"If it doesn't have the trademark Skyrim/TES combat the game will fail".

How do you put Skyrim combat into an MMO?

I have a mod for Skyrim installed called extra hot keys. I never need to pause during combat now to take potions or swap weapons/spells. Like others have mentioned, it can be done in an MMO enviroment.

 

EDIT: Actually, I can voice activate the hot keys with another bit of software :)

lol that;s awesome.  do you shout fus ro dah at your computer?


Of course, feel like a true Dovahkiin when I do. Got all dragon shouts binded. Got other mods so the dragon shouts are performed while I say them, not when I finish. Also removed the sound effect of each.

If anyones interested the software is called VAC: http://www.dwcac.com

Forum post with video tutorials: http://www.dwvac.com/vac_phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=394

Tutorial & Download package: http://www.dwvac.com/stvc/STVC_Stage5_FULL.php

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

7/13/12 7:42:28 AM#33
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Fearum

I really don't want FPS combat mechanics in my MMORPG games. If I wanted FPS combat I would play a FPS. You really don't seem to get that. I understand  your a Darkfall Fanboy and think its the greatest game ever, but I don't think the game is worth anything. You can't change my mind or the fact that the game is crap and nobody plays it.

and honestly that is a different conversation.

Most people, and I think you. are either explictly stating or implictly stating that its not possible. Not that it is possible but they dont like it that much which is two very radically different statements.

I dont like 3rd person view at all, but I know its possible.

I'm not sure exactly what your talking about here, what do I think is not possible? A first person shooter combat in a mmo? or first person view in a mmo? I think they are both possible but I was talking first person shooter (FPS) combat style because this thread is about combat.

I like 3rd person view in most games. I use it in all the game I play BF3, Skyrim and DayZ only to zoom in when I need to fire at people.

communication breakdown.

I am saying 1st view is completely possible in an MMO just as it is in a single player game. Some say its not possible. I thought you were saying its not possible and that you dont want it in an MMO. Thing is those two statements are RADICALLY different.

Correlation does not imply causation

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