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General Discussion  » Combat Questions

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33 posts found
  Wolvards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/12
Posts: 674

 
OP  7/10/12 11:06:15 AM#1

So I know what the combat will be... Limited Hot-bar, semi-restricted classes and the likes, but this question goes out to you gamers that want the game to by Skyrim Online, or FPS....

What EXACTLY do you want? Don't say Skyrim, explain in detail HOW the combat would work. 

First person view only right? What about skills? how do they work? How do you swap skills? is it hot-bared? Or is it Skyrim type where you have to "pause" the game and swap skills mid combat?

The only game I can semi relate to is DF. Is that the gameplay you guys want? I'm just trying to understand, I've read many posts about how if it isn't Skyrim combat the game will be "doomed". 

So please, elaborate.

The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1258

7/10/12 11:10:32 AM#2

I've seen it mentioned in forum topics here that there is no First Person view. I'm hoping for Skyrim style combat as I really loved it :). Apparently it was Skyrims weak point but I found it felt really good. It felt real.

  Wolvards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/12
Posts: 674

 
OP  7/10/12 11:12:22 AM#3

I know that there is no first person view, it will be third person with limited hotbar, and classes, but i've seen many many people post if it isn't Skyrim online, or FPS based, that the game will fail, and I just don't understand how that combat would work in an MMO universe. 

The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1258

7/10/12 11:17:00 AM#4

I find it unusual there is no option to flip between the two. I found it easier to go 3rd person for melee combat. All I want is the mechanics to be there. I can dodge and aim attacks by moving my character and not a tab targeting system.

 

EDIT: Also would like to see the equip left/right hand function to be in play with the relevant mouse clicks. You can equip certain weapons/spell via hotkey to equip each hand.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4641

7/10/12 11:40:14 AM#5
Originally posted by Wolvards

I know that there is no first person view, it will be third person with limited hotbar, and classes, but i've seen many many people post if it isn't Skyrim online, or FPS based, that the game will fail, and I just don't understand how that combat would work in an MMO universe. 

it currently does work in the MMO universe. Darkfall, Mortal Online does it perfectly and no the FPS combat is NOT why the games were not hugely successful and yes Darkfall does FPS WITH 100+ people on the screen fighting. So I really do not understand where people get this idea that FPS combat doesnt work in the MMO universe when it already exists!

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  Wolvards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/12
Posts: 674

 
OP  7/10/12 12:56:26 PM#6
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Wolvards

I know that there is no first person view, it will be third person with limited hotbar, and classes, but i've seen many many people post if it isn't Skyrim online, or FPS based, that the game will fail, and I just don't understand how that combat would work in an MMO universe. 

it currently does work in the MMO universe. Darkfall, Mortal Online does it perfectly and no the FPS combat is NOT why the games were not hugely successful and yes Darkfall does FPS WITH 100+ people on the screen fighting. So I really do not understand where people get this idea that FPS combat doesnt work in the MMO universe when it already exists!

Its not the FPS shooter part, it's the Skyrim part. How would SKYRIM combat work in an MMO setting? How would you swap spells? It works for Skyrim cause it's single palyer, and you essentialy "pause" to swap to healing/shield/bow/whatever. But in an MMO setting SKYRIM combat WOULDNT work. Yet all i hear and read is...

"If it doesn't have the trademark Skyrim/TES combat the game will fail".

How do you put Skyrim combat into an MMO?

The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4641

7/10/12 1:18:17 PM#7
Originally posted by Wolvards
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Wolvards

I know that there is no first person view, it will be third person with limited hotbar, and classes, but i've seen many many people post if it isn't Skyrim online, or FPS based, that the game will fail, and I just don't understand how that combat would work in an MMO universe. 

it currently does work in the MMO universe. Darkfall, Mortal Online does it perfectly and no the FPS combat is NOT why the games were not hugely successful and yes Darkfall does FPS WITH 100+ people on the screen fighting. So I really do not understand where people get this idea that FPS combat doesnt work in the MMO universe when it already exists!

Its not the FPS shooter part, it's the Skyrim part. How would SKYRIM combat work in an MMO setting? How would you swap spells? It works for Skyrim cause it's single palyer, and you essentialy "pause" to swap to healing/shield/bow/whatever. But in an MMO setting SKYRIM combat WOULDNT work. Yet all i hear and read is...

"If it doesn't have the trademark Skyrim/TES combat the game will fail".

How do you put Skyrim combat into an MMO?

darkfall nearly has IDENTICAL FPS combat as Skyrim does. magic, melee, shield and besides nobody and I mean NOBODY is saying it has to be EXACTLY like Skyrim where do people get that idea from?

WTF?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4641

7/10/12 1:28:39 PM#8

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5540

7/10/12 1:33:13 PM#9
Originally posted by Wolvards
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Wolvards

I know that there is no first person view, it will be third person with limited hotbar, and classes, but i've seen many many people post if it isn't Skyrim online, or FPS based, that the game will fail, and I just don't understand how that combat would work in an MMO universe. 

it currently does work in the MMO universe. Darkfall, Mortal Online does it perfectly and no the FPS combat is NOT why the games were not hugely successful and yes Darkfall does FPS WITH 100+ people on the screen fighting. So I really do not understand where people get this idea that FPS combat doesnt work in the MMO universe when it already exists!

Its not the FPS shooter part, it's the Skyrim part. How would SKYRIM combat work in an MMO setting? How would you swap spells? It works for Skyrim cause it's single palyer, and you essentialy "pause" to swap to healing/shield/bow/whatever. But in an MMO setting SKYRIM combat WOULDNT work. Yet all i hear and read is...

"If it doesn't have the trademark Skyrim/TES combat the game will fail".

How do you put Skyrim combat into an MMO?

You can swap skills using keybinds.

 

Assign a weapon/spell to 1-5 to left hand.

Assign a weapon/spell to 6-0 for left hand.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1258

7/10/12 2:06:41 PM#10
Originally posted by Wolvards
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Wolvards

I know that there is no first person view, it will be third person with limited hotbar, and classes, but i've seen many many people post if it isn't Skyrim online, or FPS based, that the game will fail, and I just don't understand how that combat would work in an MMO universe. 

it currently does work in the MMO universe. Darkfall, Mortal Online does it perfectly and no the FPS combat is NOT why the games were not hugely successful and yes Darkfall does FPS WITH 100+ people on the screen fighting. So I really do not understand where people get this idea that FPS combat doesnt work in the MMO universe when it already exists!

Its not the FPS shooter part, it's the Skyrim part. How would SKYRIM combat work in an MMO setting? How would you swap spells? It works for Skyrim cause it's single palyer, and you essentialy "pause" to swap to healing/shield/bow/whatever. But in an MMO setting SKYRIM combat WOULDNT work. Yet all i hear and read is...

"If it doesn't have the trademark Skyrim/TES combat the game will fail".

How do you put Skyrim combat into an MMO?

I have a mod for Skyrim installed called extra hot keys. I never need to pause during combat now to take potions or swap weapons/spells. Like others have mentioned, it can be done in an MMO enviroment.

 

EDIT: Actually, I can voice activate the hot keys with another bit of software :)

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4641

7/10/12 2:13:56 PM#11
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by Wolvards
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Wolvards

I know that there is no first person view, it will be third person with limited hotbar, and classes, but i've seen many many people post if it isn't Skyrim online, or FPS based, that the game will fail, and I just don't understand how that combat would work in an MMO universe. 

it currently does work in the MMO universe. Darkfall, Mortal Online does it perfectly and no the FPS combat is NOT why the games were not hugely successful and yes Darkfall does FPS WITH 100+ people on the screen fighting. So I really do not understand where people get this idea that FPS combat doesnt work in the MMO universe when it already exists!

Its not the FPS shooter part, it's the Skyrim part. How would SKYRIM combat work in an MMO setting? How would you swap spells? It works for Skyrim cause it's single palyer, and you essentialy "pause" to swap to healing/shield/bow/whatever. But in an MMO setting SKYRIM combat WOULDNT work. Yet all i hear and read is...

"If it doesn't have the trademark Skyrim/TES combat the game will fail".

How do you put Skyrim combat into an MMO?

I have a mod for Skyrim installed called extra hot keys. I never need to pause during combat now to take potions or swap weapons/spells. Like others have mentioned, it can be done in an MMO enviroment.

 

EDIT: Actually, I can voice activate the hot keys with another bit of software :)

In Darkfall I had I think about 100 skills/spells (mostly spells) that I could access in real time without moving my finger off the WSAD.

basically it was F1 - F10 with 1-0 for each of the function keys. not to mention a great many of the F keys I could get to with the middle scroll of my mouse.

I am surprised how people play FPS single player games all the time but somehow because there is another person in the world they think its not possible all because some dev firm said so.

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  Wolvards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/12
Posts: 674

 
OP  7/10/12 3:40:05 PM#12
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by Wolvards
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Wolvards

I know that there is no first person view, it will be third person with limited hotbar, and classes, but i've seen many many people post if it isn't Skyrim online, or FPS based, that the game will fail, and I just don't understand how that combat would work in an MMO universe. 

it currently does work in the MMO universe. Darkfall, Mortal Online does it perfectly and no the FPS combat is NOT why the games were not hugely successful and yes Darkfall does FPS WITH 100+ people on the screen fighting. So I really do not understand where people get this idea that FPS combat doesnt work in the MMO universe when it already exists!

Its not the FPS shooter part, it's the Skyrim part. How would SKYRIM combat work in an MMO setting? How would you swap spells? It works for Skyrim cause it's single palyer, and you essentialy "pause" to swap to healing/shield/bow/whatever. But in an MMO setting SKYRIM combat WOULDNT work. Yet all i hear and read is...

"If it doesn't have the trademark Skyrim/TES combat the game will fail".

How do you put Skyrim combat into an MMO?

I have a mod for Skyrim installed called extra hot keys. I never need to pause during combat now to take potions or swap weapons/spells. Like others have mentioned, it can be done in an MMO enviroment.

 

EDIT: Actually, I can voice activate the hot keys with another bit of software :)

In Darkfall I had I think about 100 skills/spells (mostly spells) that I could access in real time without moving my finger off the WSAD.

basically it was F1 - F10 with 1-0 for each of the function keys. not to mention a great many of the F keys I could get to with the middle scroll of my mouse.

I am surprised how people play FPS single player games all the time but somehow because there is another person in the world they think its not possible all because some dev firm said so.

Red: This is the kind of answer i was looking for in my OP, it explains how the combats works/worked and how you think it should work in TES. Not just saying, "It's just like Darkfall!" (i still don't know how you hit "F5" through "F10" without removing your hands off the keyboard.... Long fingers? Seriously i struggle with #7...)

Green: This is the type of statement I would expect from someone of the DF community. Its l33tist. It's straight stupid.

Maybe a majority of gamers (obviously not DF because what was it's largest population? 50k?) don't like FPS twitch based for their MMOs. It's much more complex than what would be enjoyable to a larger scale of player base. How is that not apparent? I've seen reference with TES:O to how DAoC was a "niche" game at 250k subs at i t's pinnacle, when DF in the last 5 years didn't touch those numbers? That alone yells niche.

I made this OP to try and have a conversation about how the combat would work because I just didn't get how it would be playable by a decent/large number of players. But instead I got a DF fanboy that just raged because TES:O isn't the same combat as Darkfall. 

I am just surprised at how people play such a tough, complex game, then expect game developers to create that same feeling for a AAA title that only a few thousand players will enjoy. Just doesn't make sense.

The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1258

7/10/12 4:44:56 PM#13

What I find strange is that Skyrim sold over 3.5 million copies in under 48 hours of release (God knows what it's at now, still top 10 sales in Steam nearly a year on) but no AAA develoer hasn't thought to implement the combat system in an MMO.

One day, hopefully.

  Mexorilla

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/09/12
Posts: 316

7/10/12 4:51:38 PM#14
Originally posted by Wolvards
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Wolvards

I know that there is no first person view, it will be third person with limited hotbar, and classes, but i've seen many many people post if it isn't Skyrim online, or FPS based, that the game will fail, and I just don't understand how that combat would work in an MMO universe. 

it currently does work in the MMO universe. Darkfall, Mortal Online does it perfectly and no the FPS combat is NOT why the games were not hugely successful and yes Darkfall does FPS WITH 100+ people on the screen fighting. So I really do not understand where people get this idea that FPS combat doesnt work in the MMO universe when it already exists!

Its not the FPS shooter part, it's the Skyrim part. How would SKYRIM combat work in an MMO setting? How would you swap spells? It works for Skyrim cause it's single palyer, and you essentialy "pause" to swap to healing/shield/bow/whatever. But in an MMO setting SKYRIM combat WOULDNT work. Yet all i hear and read is...

"If it doesn't have the trademark Skyrim/TES combat the game will fail".

How do you put Skyrim combat into an MMO?

there are hotkeys to swap spells/weapons in skyrim.  obviously pausing wouldnt work,  but much like gw2 has a waepon swap button,  swapping isn't out of the question.

 

i'd like 3rd person mouse look,  left/right hands tied to the mouse buttons. 

 

i think those that say "if it doesnt have Elder Scrolls Combat it will fail",  are huge ES fans.  they think Zenimax is fucking their game up.  they are probably right.  they just don't want to see too much of their game changed.

  Mexorilla

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/09/12
Posts: 316

7/10/12 4:53:40 PM#15
Originally posted by immodium

What I find strange is that Skyrim sold over 3.5 million copies in under 48 hours of release (God knows what it's at now, still top 10 sales in Steam nearly a year on) but no AAA develoer hasn't thought to implement the combat system in an MMO.

One day, hopefully.

Elder Scrolls isnt fun becuase of the combat. 

  Wolvards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/12
Posts: 674

 
OP  7/10/12 4:56:59 PM#16
Originally posted by Mexorilla
Originally posted by immodium

What I find strange is that Skyrim sold over 3.5 million copies in under 48 hours of release (God knows what it's at now, still top 10 sales in Steam nearly a year on) but no AAA develoer hasn't thought to implement the combat system in an MMO.

One day, hopefully.

Elder Scrolls isnt fun becuase of the combat. 

And that's how i find it as too. TES (in my own opinion) is more about just the exploration. And it's wierd how some people say Skyrim combat hasn't been done in an MMO, yet others say it has (Darkfall).... 

The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  ShadowedMare

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/12
Posts: 28

7/10/12 7:53:48 PM#17

I've heard it's going to be a limited hotbar as well which isn't my favorite thing in the world but it could be worse. Also, ES games have never had a heavy focus on the combat system (minus Skyrim). Look at Morrowind for example, the combat system was horrible but the gameplay and the lore keep me coming back after all this time. Let's hope this game will have so much more to offer we don't even notice the flaws of the combat system. 

The Shadowed Mare - A Tavern North of Caldera and an Elder Scrolls Online Fansite and Forums.

  Mister_Re

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/11
Posts: 142

Only the wisest and stupidest of men never change-Confucius

7/10/12 8:12:14 PM#18

You could have that, or maybe favorite skills/spells for each hand and have a toggle switch button to swap through. I'd say maybe five (5) per hand.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4641

7/11/12 10:15:14 AM#19
Originally posted by immodium

What I find strange is that Skyrim sold over 3.5 million copies in under 48 hours of release (God knows what it's at now, still top 10 sales in Steam nearly a year on) but no AAA develoer hasn't thought to implement the combat system in an MMO.

One day, hopefully.

ah but there is!

Darkfall

Its pretty much very close to what everyone would expect out of a TES Online model. I have always been shocked at how much Darkfall didnt became a lot more popular than it did. I think the main reason is the FFA part scared off a lot of people.

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1087

7/11/12 2:12:50 PM#20
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by immodium

What I find strange is that Skyrim sold over 3.5 million copies in under 48 hours of release (God knows what it's at now, still top 10 sales in Steam nearly a year on) but no AAA develoer hasn't thought to implement the combat system in an MMO.

One day, hopefully.

ah but there is!

Darkfall

Its pretty much very close to what everyone would expect out of a TES Online model. I have always been shocked at how much Darkfall didnt became a lot more popular than it did. I think the main reason is the FFA part scared off a lot of people.

Darkfall is a horrible example to throw out for any reference. The game is crap, thats why nobody plays it. And to stay on Topic the Combat I need to see actual gameplay. Sounds interesting and hope it makes the game fun.

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