Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Maybe, but the opposite can be true as well. With no sub fee, players can leave and stay away from the game even more. it's one of those things that's uncertain.

for the last 7 years, since 2005,

ANET has already shown the b2p model works

You do know the difference between a full mmorpg and a lobby game, right?

Can you please explain the reason why it won't work in an MMORPG?

Because:

PVE- In GW1, everybody auto gathers in the hubs making group finding alot easier, using npcs to help you, or even hide low pop problems. GW2 is going to spread it's playerbase over the world events, story instances, dungeons, etc, making group finding just as much of a problem as normal mmorpgs

PVP- SaMe thing as GW1. No big deal for Structured pvp of course, but WVW even needs more players than pve. While atleast you can guest in pve to make it easier, you're bound to your server for WVW. Low pop on multyple servsers would cause tons of problems for it. Which would lead to necessary server merges, which is never good.

GW1 is fully instanced making pop not even as much of a big deal as a full mmo like all others. Which is why the game can't hang around for months on end with no content or expansion or anything, otherwise problem show up. Sub or not.

And when you add a sub, it serves to compound the problems you described, not alleviate them.

I never said a sub makes it easier. Of course it doesn't. What i'm trying to say is that going back to GW1 is no problem because it's a lobby game. Jumping in and out from time to time in an mmo is not so usefull if the players only stay for a very short amount of said time. A stable community that is active most of time is what matters, and it means more money, which is what will decide the future of course.

Your assumtion that everyone is going to be jumping out from time to time is really just based on nothing. While it's possible to do that with this game, and I believe it's one of the strengths of the B2P model, the idea that people will do it more often in this game than a sub game is just conjecture. Edit: (People paying subs may not play much anyway. People with subs that are over are less likely to play again.)

I agree with you that having a solid population is important in any MMORPG, but I also think that the B2P model is only going to serve to help strengthen the population, not hinder it. And even you apparently agrre that a sub does not make it easier to alleviate the problems you describe, so what are you even trying to say?

Successful?  Depends on your definition.

In the business sense I'd say profitable = successful.  - I bet A-net has enough pre-purchases already to guarantee profiability.

Some would say that killing WoW would make it successful.  - Not a chance of this happening.  WoW is too strong a franchise with too much success already under its belt to be "killed" by any single game. 

If the game's activity level eclipses that of WoW (the WoW of peak activity that is), then I would say this is a smashing success that would alter the genre permanently. - I have my doubts that A-Net can push it this far, but this seems to be what they are hoping for.  I'd say chances are probably less than a coin flip of this happening, but if the game does turn out to be this good we will all be pretty happy gamers.

A viable long-term E-sport is something the genre has craved for years and A-net seems to be trying to create it, maybe that would define success in some way. - At present the game doesn't have a number of the things it would need to flourish as E-sport.  It's not to say that it can't happen, only that what I have seen in the betas has not done it.  There are a ton of reasons why this genre hasn't had a viable long term E-sport (credit where credit is due, WoW made a decent attempt, but fell short in my opinion).  I doubt that even A-net can make it successful this way.  I'd say less than 10% chance of this kind of success, simply because it has never been done before and it has been attempted by much larger outfits with deeper pockets and a way bigger dev team.

Originally posted by colddog04

Your assumtion that everyone is going to be jumping out from time to time is really just based on nothing. While it's possible to do that with this game, and I believe it's one of the strengths of the B2P model, the idea that people will do it more often in this game than a sub game is just conjecture. Edit: (People paying subs may not play much anyway. People with subs that are over are less likely to play again.)

 

I agree with you that having a solid population is important in any MMORPG, but I also think that the B2P model is only going to serve to help strengthen the population, not hinder it. And even you apparently agrre that a sub does not make it easier to alleviate the problems you describe, so what are you even trying to say?

 

 

Wonder whats going to happen if players that planned on just jumping in and out of GW2 during main game downtime or whatnot start to discover that they are actually having more fun and a better experience in GW2 than their supposed sub game of choice?

When the game is as solid as GW2 is there is no weakness in Anets B2P model...

GW2 will only experience growth and im guessing the sub model games in the end will feel it the most...

I expect this to happen to a certain extent but to what extent nobody can know yet..

Edit:

There is a lot of casual players paying subs and being treated like 2nd class gamers just because they have RL issues to contend with and many of these weekend warriors will never get to see much if any of the end game content in these elitist mindset cloned power gamer driven games..

Once they discover that in GW2 they can enjoy epic content as they see fit and are not viewed as second class gamers my guess is many will forget all about the subbed clones and play GW2 when time allows and will enjoy and gain the most from that limited time..

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

I never said a sub makes it easier. Of course it doesn't. What i'm trying to say is that going back to GW1 is no problem because it's a lobby game. Jumping in and out from time to time in an mmo is not so usefull if the players only stay for a very short amount of said time. A stable community that is active most of time is what matters, and it means more money, which is what will decide the future of course.

Your assumtion that everyone is going to be jumping out from time to time is really just based on nothing. While it's possible to do that with this game, and I believe it's one of the strengths of the B2P model, the idea that people will do it more often in this game than a sub game is just conjecture. Edit: (People paying subs may not play much anyway. People with subs that are over are less likely to play again.)

 

I agree with you that having a solid population is important in any MMORPG, but I also think that the B2P model is only going to serve to help strengthen the population, not hinder it. And even you apparently agrre that a sub does not make it easier to alleviate the problems you describe, so what are you even trying to say?

I agree with that. GW2 will have a core community just as much as all other mmo, that's for sure. I was simply trying to explain that not having a sub means players can feel less inclined to retun if they're bored of the game. But of course, as i've always believe, the opposite can be true. It also changes from player to player.

It's all very uncertain anyway, and only the future will tell.

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

I agree with that. GW2 will have a core community just as much as all other mmo, that's for sure. I was simply trying to explain that not having a sub means players can feel less inclined to retun if they're bored of the game. But of course, as i've always believe, the opposite can be true. It also changes from player to player.

It's all very uncertain anyway, and only the future will tell.

Your entire premise seems, to me, as being based on the belief GW2 won't have enough content until more content is out and also because probably you believe non sub fee games won't receive new content.

i don't agree on both premises.

If you remember, WoW was release with like 14 dundeons plus a couple of 10 mans and molten core.

Compared to existing MMORPGS of the time, WoW didn't have that much content.

Massive content alone isn't a reason players stay in a game.

People flocked to WoW because it was a high polished title from a reputable dev, that removed some of the most annoying things the genre incorporated. That allowed it to reach a mass of players that wouldn't play any of the other MMORPGs out there.

GW2 is also a very polished MMORPG that targets some of the most annoying features of the genre.

Additionally I don't see how paying $15 will make players more inclined to return to a game compared to just double clicking the game shortcut.

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Both TSW, GW2 and , well, every mmo will have it's share of trolls an annying people in chat. It's almost the rule actually.

On topic, the OP got is hands on a crystal ball. And didn't people use those crystal balls at the time to say that WAR, AOC, Rift, Aion, TOR, etc would be extremely succeful? Yeah. OP, most mmorpgs end up being a sucess actually, like Rift and produce moeny which is all that matters in the end.

And, what you forget is that GW can out during the year with the least amount of competition. Next year we already have TESO (oh yeah, i'm not liking what i read, but there'll probably be a huge amount of hype)

GW came out months after EQ2 and WoW.  I would hardly call that the "least" competition.  Sure it was the next "year," technically, but EQ2 and WoW came out in November of the year before, so the "year" was almost over.  GW did VERY well in the shadow of that massive competition, actually.