Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by Syno23

I've done some research on this game for the past few years and wasn't planning on buying it until a few days ago. And I'm doing it because I know truly in my heart that this game is going to be successful.

Remember the days when Blizzard created those AWESOME games. Those games that weren't for the money, but was to please gamers throughout the world. Well that Blizzard is gone, and ArenaNet; the company behind Guild Wars 2 is the most successful studio that came outta Blizzard.

So there's one: AreanaNet a studio formed from a very successful company; Blizzard

Number 2: The Guild Wars franchise as a whole as already sold more than 7 million copies. So let's do the math. Let's say that the game sold 1 million copies and raised 50 million dollars from those 1 million copies. Now, the game went on to sell more than 6 million copies TOTAL. So 1 million + 6 million is 7 million. So 6 million copies worth of revenue is 300 million dollars. In subscriber numbers that's 300 million divided by 15 dollars divided by 7 years. That's an average of 2 MILLION subscribers per year! 

And yes, I know box sales and expansions. So let's even say, 1.5 million subs. That's a successful MMO.

(Guild Wars sales source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/NCsoft )

EDIT: Between 2009 and 2012 the series did sell another million copies.

Number 3: It doesn't compete with all the other MMOs out there. With each MMO that comes out that costs 15 dollars a month. Most people can only afford 2 MMOs at once per month. And others only pay for one. So if you play WoW you won't be playing other MMOs. But if you play other MMOs you won't be playing...you get the point.

Guild Wars 2 doesn't have to compete with that. Meaning that if it can WIN in the F2P market then it's already the WoW of F2P. Not that this game is going to be anything like WoW. Already the difference in revenue models is a good difference.

Number 4: The Guild Wars franchise is already a well known name. Why was Star Wars: The Old Republic so popular from the get go? Because Star Wars was well known. BioWare was well known. And together they created an EXTREMELY hyped game. Hopefully Guild Wars 2 does the same thing and it will instantly becaome successful.

Number 5: The bad economy. Most of us including me just don't have jobs. So we can't afford a 15 dollar a month subscriber fee. And if we can we'll only afford to play one game. So with Guild Wars 2. Those who can come up with the 60 dollars will be able to play a game that won't cost them anything FOREVER! Well until the servers shutdown. In a bad economy, saving isn't such a bad thing.

[mod edit]

{ Edited : the first line was missing :) }

I[mod edit]

I was still on the fence about buying GW2 but I've thrown so much money at "Failware and Blizztard" that I might as well give someone else a shot, if only to ensure competition survives.

Originally posted by Trionicus

I was still on the fence about buying GW2 but I've thrown so much money atI[mod edit]I might as well give someone else a shot, if only to ensure competition survives.

While not a particularly sound decision (at least not economically speaking), it is logically a good decision, and a decision I personally feel you will not regret; just make sure to throw out all previous conceptions about what an MMO is/should be, if you don't, you will probably be upset or find yourself complaining about why it is not a re-skinned version of WoW. I will admit, 3 years ago when they first debuted the Zhaitan footage from GamesCon (and I was up to my chin in WoW fanboy-ism) I was charging headfirst screaming "shitty, lame-ass, no skill required, zerg game."

Well, I've since grown up, dropped the naive outlooks, and actually did what any college educated (or even high school educated) person should've done in the first place, and that is critically looked at the game all from an un-biased, purely information based perspective. When I did that about 9-10 months ago, although rather skeptical, I decided I would reserve judgment and give it the benefit of the doubt. I believe if more people took this approach, we'd have a lot less hate flying around these forums and better games in the future because of the positive reception of this genre-redefining game.

Guild Wars 2 is a new kind of MMO, hell, it's a new kind of game in general if you want my honest opinion. This is the direction the genre should have been moving towards years ago, and it's about damn time some serious out-of-the-box game design is hitting this stagnated to hell genre. I wonder if Blizzard is holding back on Titan to see if they need to redesign it (oh who am I kidding? We all know Blizzard never intended to make "Titan" anytime soon, it'll be the MMO version of SC2 and D3. Something they release on the verge of everyone forgetting about the previous games to sucker people into giving them more money).

Originally posted by Comaf

I[mod edit]

I Know TSW has curse words, blood and drugs and stuff but Adult? It's Buffy/Angel online. Every one looks about the same age as the scooby gang. Don't get me wrong I think it's a great game and truely something different but don't play the kid/adult card here.  GW2 will have its share of player across the social spectrum same as TSW.

OP I kind of agree with you even if you do sound a bit to happy. I have no idea how the numbers will stack up but I can see GW2 going from strength to strength down to the simple fact that anyone playing an MMO can  play GW2 at the same time as it won't cost after the initial buy. That , for me at least, takes a load of pressure off me to rush through it to see if I get my money's worth. 

Originally posted by Leethe

Every one looks about the same age as the scooby gang.

Hahaha this is great, almost signature worthy :)

To the guy saying he's glad GW2 will be out soon because it'll keep the kids out of TSW, just wanted to point out that people were saying the exact same thing about SWTOR in relation to MoP.

Being excited about having a low population in an MMO... I will never understand this mind-set. A low population leads to developer panic and massive changes to your favorite game, and really no one to play your massively multi-player game with.

Both TSW, GW2 and , well, every mmo will have it's share of trolls an annying people in chat. It's almost the rule actually.

On topic, the OP got is hands on a crystal ball. And didn't people use those crystal balls at the time to say that WAR, AOC, Rift, Aion, TOR, etc would be extremely succeful? Yeah. OP, most mmorpgs end up being a sucess actually, like Rift and produce moeny which is all that matters in the end.

And, what you forget is that GW can out during the year with the least amount of competition. Next year we already have TESO (oh yeah, i'm not liking what i read, but there'll probably be a huge amount of hype)

Originally posted by Syno23

I've done some research on this game for the past few years and wasn't planning on buying it until a few days ago. And I'm doing it because I know truly in my heart that this game is going to be successful.

You cannot buy a game because it's going to be successful. 

It becomes successful because you buy it.

Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by Syno23

I've done some research on this game for the past few years and wasn't planning on buying it until a few days ago. And I'm doing it because I know truly in my heart that this game is going to be successful.

Remember the days when Blizzard created those AWESOME games. Those games that weren't for the money, but was to please gamers throughout the world. Well that Blizzard is gone, and ArenaNet; the company behind Guild Wars 2 is the most successful studio that came outta Blizzard.

So there's one: AreanaNet a studio formed from a very successful company; Blizzard

Number 2: The Guild Wars franchise as a whole as already sold more than 7 million copies. So let's do the math. Let's say that the game sold 1 million copies and raised 50 million dollars from those 1 million copies. Now, the game went on to sell more than 6 million copies TOTAL. So 1 million + 6 million is 7 million. So 6 million copies worth of revenue is 300 million dollars. In subscriber numbers that's 300 million divided by 15 dollars divided by 7 years. That's an average of 2 MILLION subscribers per year! 

And yes, I know box sales and expansions. So let's even say, 1.5 million subs. That's a successful MMO.

(Guild Wars sales source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/NCsoft )

EDIT: Between 2009 and 2012 the series did sell another million copies.

Number 3: It doesn't compete with all the other MMOs out there. With each MMO that comes out that costs 15 dollars a month. Most people can only afford 2 MMOs at once per month. And others only pay for one. So if you play WoW you won't be playing other MMOs. But if you play other MMOs you won't be playing...you get the point.

Guild Wars 2 doesn't have to compete with that. Meaning that if it can WIN in the F2P market then it's already the WoW of F2P. Not that this game is going to be anything like WoW. Already the difference in revenue models is a good difference.

Number 4: The Guild Wars franchise is already a well known name. Why was Star Wars: The Old Republic so popular from the get go? Because Star Wars was well known. BioWare was well known. And together they created an EXTREMELY hyped game. Hopefully Guild Wars 2 does the same thing and it will instantly becaome successful.

Number 5: The bad economy. Most of us including me just don't have jobs. So we can't afford a 15 dollar a month subscriber fee. And if we can we'll only afford to play one game. So with Guild Wars 2. Those who can come up with the 60 dollars will be able to play a game that won't cost them anything FOREVER! Well until the servers shutdown. In a bad economy, saving isn't such a bad thing.

I'm very excited about it because it means more adults in Secret World and more youngins' in GW2.  And I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here, I'm just saying that kids and folks who kind of think like kids (I have a few friends like this so don't take it personally) love cute characters and furry critter things in armor hopping around.  They love flashing colors and lots and lots of effects (like 4th of July in every pvp zone!).

 

Then there's the old crowd, i.e., Ultima, EQ, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call.  We love a more grounded mmorpg that is community rich and truly as believable as can be in regards to the sense of fantasy escapism provided.  GW2 is going to be a fun game for lots of folks.  I think they did a great job on making it a fun game.  But it's a game (an mmoVideo Game), not an mmoRPG.

 

So again, I'm glad the younger community has a place to have a blast :)

 

(Ducks behind a Charzar or whatever the furry guy is called in GW2 to avoid the flames!) 

I guess for you, '' as adult '', it is always better to go and work instead of sitting in TSW imagining that u r a secret agent, don´t u agree?!!

I have worked in the mmo-industry for years and it is always '' amazing '' when I see more children trying to be '' adults '', insulting everyone else opinion in a way or another. There is no more childish ppl than those who '' claim '' that they are adults, by the way. Life should have learned u somethig, if we ignore hoping to be a secret agent.

Different people may have different opinions, in any case the thread-maker did talk about '' business '' and when we are here, you should think more effectively, trying to notice how GW2 make it different and why it isn´t '' another '' game with kill X number Y in zone Z!

Originally posted by Syno23

 

Number 3: It doesn't compete with all the other MMOs out there. With each MMO that comes out that costs 15 dollars a month. Most people can only afford 2 MMOs at once per month. And others only pay for one. So if you play WoW you won't be playing other MMOs. But if you play other MMOs you won't be playing...you get the point.

Guild Wars 2 doesn't have to compete with that. Meaning that if it can WIN in the F2P market then it's already the WoW of F2P. Not that this game is going to be anything like WoW. Already the difference in revenue models is a good difference.

Number 5: The bad economy. Most of us including me just don't have jobs. So we can't afford a 15 dollar a month subscriber fee. And if we can we'll only afford to play one game. So with Guild Wars 2. Those who can come up with the 60 dollars will be able to play a game that won't cost them anything FOREVER! Well until the servers shutdown. In a bad economy, saving isn't such a bad thing.

What strikes me about #3 isn't that you make the same error as sooo many others have, its that you proceed to illustrate that error two items later, in #5.

Guild Wars 2 will not "win the F2P market" because it's not competing in the "F2P Market", because it's not "F2P".

In order to play at all, outside of a free trial, you will be required to purchase the game, for $60 as you point out (or whatever the actual price will be). That right there should tell you "it's not free to play". Free To Play requires no initial cash investment to access and play the game. You download the client, create an account, login and play.

This is why people who do respect the established meanings of words refer to GW2 as "Buy To Play". To be more precise, "Buy To Play with a Cash Shop".

To call it "free to play" demonstrates either flagrant dishonesty, a disregard for established words and their meanings, or a complete unfamiliarity thereof.

Originally posted by Comaf

 

I'm very excited about it because it means more adults in Secret World and more youngins' in GW2.  And I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here, I'm just saying that kids and folks who kind of think like kids (I have a few friends like this so don't take it personally) love cute characters and furry critter things in armor hopping around.  They love flashing colors and lots and lots of effects (like 4th of July in every pvp zone!).

 

Then there's the old crowd, i.e., Ultima, EQ, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call.  We love a more grounded mmorpg that is community rich and truly as believable as can be in regards to the sense of fantasy escapism provided.  GW2 is going to be a fun game for lots of folks.  I think they did a great job on making it a fun game.  But it's a game (an mmoVideo Game), not an mmoRPG.

 

You are so wrong buddy :) Secret World is for kids, while Guild Wars 2 is a close to sandbox as we can get now (unfortunately).

Its a privelege to live in virtual world (Ultima Online, DAOC, Guild Wars 2), its a cheap illusion  to imagine yourself living in virtual world (WoW,RIFT,AION,SW,SWTOR).

Based on current market the best project should be Archeage, who wants quests and even dynamic events when you can build cities, siege, wreck havos, pillage, use diplomacy, create alliances in SANDBOX.

I believe the only way to perfect MMO is sandbox, we don't need your theme parks, we don't need your RAIDS and Dungeons, we need a huge playground which we can feel ourselves, with our OWN cities, clans, dungeons, history should be made by players! 

Its really strange thing, but Fallout 2 succeeds in many more things that MANY of current MMOS. Yes its short, yes it dosent even have online, but at least its a living world with randomness, feel of epicness and mad max taste :)

1. Open world, colonized by players on day 1, only land and animals

2. Lots of tools for players: diplomatic, crafting, warfare, skill system that takes ages to master

3. MMORPG should be like civilization games, starting from nothing and becoming something bigger.. Its not about running from lvl1 to lvl80, its about LIVING a DREAM. Why you play computer games? Because you want to be something you can't be in REAL LIFE, you want to kill somebody but not for real, but you still want it to look as real as possible :) 

Imagine a game that gets better every year, imagine a game that gets its DLC as a bunch of new program codes to upkeep sandbox world. Let the players define the world, If we want a pony mount we will have it, instead of waiting for it from developer and paying 20$ for flying mount (Hello Blizzard, infected with EA virus?)

Kids can go play themeparks, let us oldies have fun in own sandbox.. From atari to sega from 286 to Pentium, from Pentium to 3DFX Voodoo, I still can't freaking figure out WHY THERE IS ONLY ONE GAME that made sandbox reality happend (EVE) ? 

Oh and Guild Wars 2 is best you will see for next 1-2 years, its dynamic mmorpg, thats better than most crap release last year, this year and upcoming year. Its not my game of dreams, but its as close as it can get without adding magic ingredient called SANDBOX.

Oh sorry what an offtopic mess :)

Originally posted by Reliique

Kids can go play themeparks, let us oldies have fun in own sandbox.. From atari to sega from 286 to Pentium, from Pentium to 3DFX Voodoo, I still can't freaking figure out WHY THERE IS ONLY ONE GAME that made sandbox reality happend (EVE) ? 

Errr sorry, but you forget a few games, notably Ultima Online, the first mainstream MMORPG, still running today, and which is a sandbox...

Originally posted by Syno23

Number 2: The Guild Wars franchise as a whole as already sold more than 7 million copies. So let's do the math. Let's say that the game sold 1 million copies and raised 50 million dollars from those 1 million copies. Now, the game went on to sell more than 6 million copies TOTAL. So 1 million + 6 million is 7 million. So 6 million copies worth of revenue is 300 million dollars. In subscriber numbers that's 300 million divided by 15 dollars divided by 7 years. That's an average of 2 MILLION subscribers per year! 

And yes, I know box sales and expansions. So let's even say, 1.5 million subs. That's a successful MMO.

(Guild Wars sales source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/NCsoft )

EDIT: Between 2009 and 2012 the series did sell another million copies.

Uhm, that math sounds a bit suspicious to me and I am a fan of both Guildwars... If nothing else because GW only had 3,5 separate accounts and some people only bought a single campaign cheap while others bought all of them for full price or the CE.

You just can't compare P2P, B2P and F2P games that way anyways.

Either You compare how much money the game actually gets in every month or year or you compare how many different players that are online each month, usually called "active players".

GW is a huge hit, particularly compared to what it cost Anet to make it but you just can´t compare it that way.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Reliique

Kids can go play themeparks, let us oldies have fun in own sandbox.. From atari to sega from 286 to Pentium, from Pentium to 3DFX Voodoo, I still can't freaking figure out WHY THERE IS ONLY ONE GAME that made sandbox reality happend (EVE) ? 

Errr sorry, but you forget a few games, notably Ultima Online, the first mainstream MMORPG, still running today, and which is a sandbox...

Yes, I've mentioned it, but its oldschool. Eve is only one from 2000- 

Sorry didnt express myself well enough.. There was also Meridian 59 if you remember that :)

Ive should have said something like "from end of 90 there is still no true sandbox games, at least "alive" " 

I didn't play famous Star Wars Galaxies, but Ive heard it was really really great?

Originally posted by Comaf

I'm very excited about it because it means more adults in Secret World and more youngins' in GW2.  And I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here, I'm just saying that kids and folks who kind of think like kids (I have a few friends like this so don't take it personally) love cute characters and furry critter things in armor hopping around.  They love flashing colors and lots and lots of effects (like 4th of July in every pvp zone!).

 

Then there's the old crowd, i.e., Ultima, EQ, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call.  We love a more grounded mmorpg that is community rich and truly as believable as can be in regards to the sense of fantasy escapism provided.  GW2 is going to be a fun game for lots of folks.  I think they did a great job on making it a fun game.  But it's a game (an mmoVideo Game), not an mmoRPG.

 

I also have to disagree with this. I'm gonna be 49 in 6 weeks time and I also started out on UO, played EQ, DAoC etc but I can't agree with this idea that GW2 is for a younger crowd and TSW is for the more mature player.

I tried the TSW beta weekends and, personally, I found the Character models to be ugly, the animations woefully sub par, and the combat felt totally disconnected from what I was doing on the keyboard. The combat feeling so poor is probably because of the animations to be honest. I can think of no excuse for any game to be so poorly animated with todays technology. We know that Funcom is capable of better. Look at AoC. Forget it's other faults and just look at it.

As for the "old crowd", and here you quote DAoC, why would they not be interested in GW2? World v World for me looks like the closest thing to DAoC's RvR to come out in the last 10 years. That alone has me interested in GW2. Luckily I've just got one of the Curse keys for the final Beta weekend so I can finally try it out and see for myself. Perhaps after that I might change my mind but from the videos I've seen so far I doubt I will lose interest.

There's probably plenty of more mature gamers out there who share your opinion but I guarentee there's plenety more who also agree with me. Generalisations like yours should be avoided where possile.

Originally posted by helthros

I think the popularity of the Guild Wars franchise is highly over-stated here. It's not even remotely close to being on a fraction of the level that Warcraft or Star Wars had. These two IPs brought in millions of non-mmo players to at least try out the game.

the part I highlighted in yellow is very true and Guild Wars 2 hopes to appeal to the non-mmo player too

for its time, I believe Guild Wars did better than SWTOR

SWTOR intially sold faster but GW1 probably did better as a "best selling" game

if SWTOR can keep selling millions every year then ill stand corrected

7 years ago, April 2005, and on the heels of WOW, GW1 launched

in 5 months GW1 sold 1 million (Sept 2005),  by the end of its first year GW1 sold 2 million

http://guildwars.com/events/press/releases/

for comparison, WOW had 3.5 million subs in July 2005   (2 million US/EU,  1.5 million China)

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=5989

its difficult to compare success of GW to other mmos anyhow

-- there is no sub and you can only compare boxsales or concurrent users

Originally posted by Poison_Adele

I could say the same about TSW and ninjas, zombies, magic, katanas, guns, etc, etc. But I won't, because it's a stupidly cheap shot and I know the TSW story is deeper than that. Comaf, maturity doesn't come from kneejerk, shallow judgements of things you don't know anything about, it comes from either learning before making a judgement or just not making a judgement. :)

 It's too bad I'm a nice person who actually thinks TSW has some interesting points to it.  If I was a hater, I'd have fun comparing TSW to other series.

Like Twilight (Supernatural beings walk among unsuspecting mortals!) and Harry Potter (Special magical people are hidden from the unsuspecting normals who don't realize they're being manipulated!).

... or one of the most godawful overdone genres, the modern hidden supernatural books.  Usually with a private investigator for some reason.  As if that whole TSW-like genre didn't have a crapload of horrifyingly bad wish fulfillment series (I know, I know, fantasy isn't exactly the world's most class-filled genre, but it has less vampires, which seems to bring out the worst in people).

... being in a glass house, it's dangerous to throw stones. :(

Its AAA B2P MMO made by ArenaNet anyone thinking its not going to be extremely successful is fooling themselfs...